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Will there be no addons?

http://www.aocwiki.net/Technical_Information#Supporting_add-ons.3F.5B11.5D which states that they are unsure of addons or mods. I would like to say no right off the bat to this. Please make the game so  complete that these wretched things are not required.
No to addons.
1. Addons create a arms war between the addon makers and the devs. Example. A DBM is created, forcing all players to get it. It in turn takes the challenge out of the raid, instance or what have you and now the devs have to work on all content in such a way to take the DBM into account. I want to play AoC and not AoC with 7 random addons.
2. Once it is allowed there is no turning back without a major outcry.
3. Addons become a forced addition. "do you have Carravanpoopscooper 2 downloaded? No? (Kick).

No to mods.
1. I do not want to see spiderman driving a golf cart around. It is bad enough people are going to be riding a giant teddy bear....do not make it worse.

Any thoughts peeps?
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Comments

  • Oh yay, more parcer talk!
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited April 2018
    I like add ons because they can basically be a free market place for improvements to quality of life aspects overlooked by devs. If your most downloaded add on is a backpack organizer,  mayb your inventory design sucks, time to look into that. 
  • If someone really wants to devote their own time and effort to develop addon for different features / "quality of life improvements". It should not be discouraged. I am not personally planning on using add-ons but some of the things people come up with are pretty genius.
  • Add-ons can be used to help fix a games issues, without working directly with the game developers. It isnt always a bad thing, but there's always two sides, hopefully the game is just good enough on its own that it wont need to consider this. It does seem a bit lazy to put the work on the players.
  • Karthos said:
    I like add ons because they can basically be a free market place for improvements to quality of life aspects overlooked by devs. If your most downloaded add on is a backpack organizer,  mayb your inventory design sucks, time to look into that. 
    Right. Which is why I want a game that, out of the shoot,  is complete. Bags and bag functions are not a new concept, thus, having bag and bag inventories hammered out from the get go is not a difficult thing to imagine .  But again, once you allow addons there is no going back. Addons that shape the way the core game is played bring problems.....at that point  it is not the Devs who you PAY that shape the game but some addon maker who passively controls the mold.  DBM and Healbot are a prime example of addons that shaped the crap that wow is today.

    Not to pick on Wow too much here but how many QoL improvements did they ignore and instead let bulky addons cover the bases for them all so they could save some money in development costs? Also, how much did the game evolve in the wrong direction thanks to required addons such as Heal bot, DBM, Weak Auras, Gladious, Bartender, etc.... I often wonder what the game would be like today if they would of said no to scripts and addons from the beginning, they  had more impact then one could imagine....maybe there would not be ten fricken tiers of the same raid as we see today.
  • @Mobrechael

    Totally agree.

    Intrepid have already said they would rather develop an Armory-like website in house rather than handing off the API and letting a third party developer create it.

    If they don't want a third party developer working on a website tied in to the game like this, I imagine they would be even more hesitant to allow third party developers to alter anything in game - UI and such.

    As long as Intrepid keep an active QoL schedule with their updates, I see no need to have any add ons at all.
  • Rodzor said:
    Add-ons can be used to help fix a games issues, without working directly with the game developers. It isnt always a bad thing, but there's always two sides, hopefully the game is just good enough on its own that it wont need to consider this. It does seem a bit lazy to put the work on the players.
    Totally with you here. Make the game right and the addons are not needed. The devs have roughly 2 decades worth of MMO success' and failures to draw from.....there is literally no need for them.

    Recently there was a strong displeasure with a power bar that was at the bottom of the screen in AoC. People wanted to enjoy seeing the  game without having to stare at a power bar. Once AoC allows addons we will all find ourselves staring at "required" power bars and timers...which is what WOW is today.
  • No addon's!
    Not every game ever made should be allowed to be altered or "enhanced" by anyone that plays it.
  • Not a fan of addons but like karthos said, it depends on the type. If people don't have a problem with the game, devs have done well. If someone is getting a bag organizer then devs need to hit the design board and yeah it acts as an issue finder in a way. The problem being certain addons can create unfair advantages which is what no one wants
  • Only WoW players want parsers.
  • It all depends on the type. I dont think that the game should allow every single person who can make a mod to throw theirs into the mix, but maybe submitting them for review through intrepid would work, where they can approve or deny them based on how they can make/break the game
  • I agree with @karthos and a few others. It would depend on the addon, and I wouldn’t want all addons to be approved. Much like @RitchieSH said-you don’t allow all. I’m good either way, though. None or some. I wouldn’t want it to turn into another WoW with a dozen required addons cluttering my screen to join a group/raid. 
  • Karthos said:
    I like add ons because they can basically be a free market place for improvements to quality of life aspects overlooked by devs. If your most downloaded add on is a backpack organizer,  mayb your inventory design sucks, time to look into that. 
    Right. Which is why I want a game that, out of the shoot,  is complete. Bags and bag functions are not a new concept, thus, having bag and bag inventories hammered out from the get go is not a difficult thing to imagine .
    Then don't play an MMO.  No MMO is complete "out of the shoot".  Play a single-player game instead.  MMOs are constantly evolving.  Play any MMO that's around for 5 years and you'll see dramatic differences between then and launch.  You're hoping for something that has never been done because it's impossible.  An MMO that never changes is one that dies.

    That's not to say that addons are required for a successful MMO.  I play a variety of them, some with addons, some without.  I remember how useful addons were when WoW was new; we didn't even have map coordinates at first.  Most games with addons do eventually incorporate the features of the most popular addons since developers are smart enough to figure out that if players want it, it's good to add it.  So I've seen them do a lot of good and I'm supportive of them.  On the other hand, I agree with your general idea that it'd be nice if they weren't necessary.  Again, that will never happen, but it would be nice to live in that perfect world.

    Basically there are two kinds of MMOs.  Those lacking features players want, and the players petition the developers, and eventually those features get added (hopefully).  And then there are those with addons that fill the gaps until the developers add them.  In all honesty, both kinds of MMOs can be and have been successful.
  • Cant argue your points.
  • Atama said:
    Karthos said:
    I like add ons because they can basically be a free market place for improvements to quality of life aspects overlooked by devs. If your most downloaded add on is a backpack organizer,  mayb your inventory design sucks, time to look into that. 
    Right. Which is why I want a game that, out of the shoot,  is complete. Bags and bag functions are not a new concept, thus, having bag and bag inventories hammered out from the get go is not a difficult thing to imagine .
    Then don't play an MMO.  No MMO is complete "out of the shoot".  Play a single-player game instead.  MMOs are constantly evolving.  Play any MMO that's around for 5 years and you'll see dramatic differences between then and launch.  You're hoping for something that has never been done because it's impossible.  An MMO that never changes is one that dies.

    That's not to say that addons are required for a successful MMO.  I play a variety of them, some with addons, some without.  I remember how useful addons were when WoW was new; we didn't even have map coordinates at first.  Most games with addons do eventually incorporate the features of the most popular addons since developers are smart enough to figure out that if players want it, it's good to add it.  So I've seen them do a lot of good and I'm supportive of them.  On the other hand, I agree with your general idea that it'd be nice if they weren't necessary.  Again, that will never happen, but it would be nice to live in that perfect world.

    Basically there are two kinds of MMOs.  Those lacking features players want, and the players petition the developers, and eventually those features get added (hopefully).  And then there are those with addons that fill the gaps until the developers add them.  In all honesty, both kinds of MMOs can be and have been successful.
    Hell, in wow there are addons that have been around forever and wow has yet to 'fill in the gaps' and why would they need to when an addon is doing the lifting for them. You bring up the map coordinate addon and that is a great example of an addon that you had to download through how many fricken xpacs?????? It was not like the addon came out and Blizz thought "oooo great idea lets put it in" No. They thought 'welp don't have to f with that" and that is exactly what happened....new xpac =re download all my addons. You still cannot really tweak your UI in wow because? Wanna guess why? An addon does it for you. People have complained for over 12 years....when will blizz do this whole 'fill in the gap thing' you talk of?

    MMos and RPGs have been around literally the entire lifespan of some of the player base. As such, Intrepid should know that having a single bag is useless, having a bag not tied to professions is useless, not being able to sort is useless. Why do we know this? Because again, MMOs and RPGs have been around forever and the Devs should know what works and what does not from A. The entire culmination of games that have come before and B. Their person history of the games they have played.  

    As far as perfection expectations go? When it comes to the small fry things like bags. Yeah, there is no reason for it not to be nearly perfect and hammered out. Granted I expect bugs and issues with the big ticket details but the little details.....there is no reason for issues when Intrepid can draw from the designs of nearly hundreds upon hundreds of different games and as such should not require an addon because Intrepid failed to realize that people like to keep vendor trash and mats separate,  or people like to keep toys and gear separate. Seriously, anyone who has played at least 5 MMOs should have a really good idea of what works and what does not.
  • Bound to happen. 
  • I think it likely OP that you are in a minority. I, for one, do not mind addons in the slightest specifically because they almost always augment parts of the game that are not really super game-changing, but rather preference between players.
    Thus, what you feel is a "complete" game might include (or exclude) an easy ui feature that would make my skin crawl. Addons allow the players to make alterations that suit their playstyle in a way that can overall make more people happy with the game.
  • RitchieSH said:
    It all depends on the type. I dont think that the game should allow every single person who can make a mod to throw theirs into the mix, but maybe submitting them for review through intrepid would work, where they can approve or deny them based on how they can make/break the game
    I can see myself getting on board with something along the lines of what @RitchieSH suggests. 

    Personally, I have nothing against add-ons as a whole, per se.  But, I am against parser's, and the like, which are "optional", but quickly become mandatory by the playerbase, which leads to a toxic form of powergaming, etc. etc. etc., imho. 
  • Can't say I like the idea that much but that depends on the addons,if they could restrict the type allowed then I would see no problem :3
  • Can't say I like the idea that much but that depends on the addons,if they could restrict the type allowed then I would see no problem :3
    Time will tell
  • There will be no mods. In a multiplayer game, where the server isn't priavtely held, there won't be server side mods.


    However addons are a must have. It's not a option or choice, if they want a sucessfull game they need to give support for addons.

    Addons are one of the reasons why wow still exists despite it's very bad and outdated UI, as most players jsut use a addons instead.
    Players need to be avalible to change their UI at will.
    Studios keep making **** changes, it's a fact, and this game won't be any different either, so players need a option to fix the developers fails.

    Also there are no problem with DBM either. You can play without it, I also paly without it. You only need brain, which most players didn't have, but that's not the addon's fault, but yours...
  • Back in time when i played WoW, it was kind of stupid how much you needed addons to be efficient and how some of those were mandatory as well. I really hope IS wont bend and we are not seeing any addons ever.  
  • All those tacky mandatory add ons is why I could never get into Wow, they looked terrible.. If you want add-ons, go play Wow.. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited April 2018
    People use addons for two reasons.
    1. Convenience to make game life easier.
    2. Competitive advantage or an Iwin button.
    And more often than not, the excuse of number 1. is to enable number 2.

    Denying addons ensures 'everyone' is on the same playing field.
    So if the game sucks in certain aspects, then the Devs need to improve the game aspects if its results in losing customers.

    Say no to Addon2Win!
    :tongue:

  • We will have to see what type of systems are put in place by Intrepid, time will tell.
  • MADE said:
    There will be no mods. In a multiplayer game, where the server isn't priavtely held, there won't be server side mods.


    However addons are a must have. It's not a option or choice, if they want a sucessfull game they need to give support for addons.

    Addons are one of the reasons why wow still exists despite it's very bad and outdated UI, as most players jsut use a addons instead.
    Players need to be avalible to change their UI at will.
    Studios keep making **** changes, it's a fact, and this game won't be any different either, so players need a option to fix the developers fails.

    Also there are no problem with DBM either. You can play without it, I also paly without it. You only need brain, which most players didn't have, but that's not the addon's fault, but yours...
    Wow is not around because of addons! It is still around because it is a pretty game that can run on a toaster and has strong loyalty base.  Period. Saying wow is around because of addons is like saying Burger King is still around because of ketchup packets.
  • MADE said:
    There will be no mods. In a multiplayer game, where the server isn't priavtely held, there won't be server side mods.


    However addons are a must have. It's not a option or choice, if they want a sucessfull game they need to give support for addons.

    Addons are one of the reasons why wow still exists despite it's very bad and outdated UI, as most players jsut use a addons instead.
    Players need to be avalible to change their UI at will.
    Studios keep making **** changes, it's a fact, and this game won't be any different either, so players need a option to fix the developers fails.

    Also there are no problem with DBM either. You can play without it, I also paly without it. You only need brain, which most players didn't have, but that's not the addon's fault, but yours...
    Wow is not around because of addons! It is still around because it is a pretty game that can run on a toaster and has strong loyalty base.  Period. Saying wow is around because of addons is like saying Burger King is still around because of ketchup packets.
    Yeah but I like ketchup, I don't like WoW. Ashes of Ketchup is what I am here for. We don't want WoW 2.0.
  • Flameh0t said:
    MADE said:
    There will be no mods. In a multiplayer game, where the server isn't priavtely held, there won't be server side mods.


    However addons are a must have. It's not a option or choice, if they want a sucessfull game they need to give support for addons.

    Addons are one of the reasons why wow still exists despite it's very bad and outdated UI, as most players jsut use a addons instead.
    Players need to be avalible to change their UI at will.
    Studios keep making **** changes, it's a fact, and this game won't be any different either, so players need a option to fix the developers fails.

    Also there are no problem with DBM either. You can play without it, I also paly without it. You only need brain, which most players didn't have, but that's not the addon's fault, but yours...
    Wow is not around because of addons! It is still around because it is a pretty game that can run on a toaster and has strong loyalty base.  Period. Saying wow is around because of addons is like saying Burger King is still around because of ketchup packets.
    Yeah but I like ketchup, I don't like WoW. Ashes of Ketchup is what I am here for. We don't want WoW 2.0.
    Ketchup is life! Ketchup is love!
  • MADE said:
    There will be no mods. In a multiplayer game, where the server isn't priavtely held, there won't be server side mods.


    However addons are a must have. It's not a option or choice, if they want a sucessfull game they need to give support for addons.

    Addons are one of the reasons why wow still exists despite it's very bad and outdated UI, as most players jsut use a addons instead.
    Players need to be avalible to change their UI at will.
    Studios keep making **** changes, it's a fact, and this game won't be any different either, so players need a option to fix the developers fails.

    Also there are no problem with DBM either. You can play without it, I also paly without it. You only need brain, which most players didn't have, but that's not the addon's fault, but yours...
    Wow is not around because of addons! It is still around because it is a pretty game that can run on a toaster and has strong loyalty base.  Period. Saying wow is around because of addons is like saying Burger King is still around because of ketchup packets.
    I agree that WoW is popular in part because it can be run on a toaster, but your other two assertions - it being a pretty game and it having a strong loyal base - I disagree.

    WoW, to me, looks like a game that can run on a toaster. That isn't in any way pretty. Also, rather than a loyal player base, I would argue that it has a player base that feels obliged. Every WoW player I know only plays WoW around expansion releases, and they only do that because they feel obliged to have a look at that new expansion.
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