Atama said: People may not remember but Everquest 2 released before WoW did. The same month, but weeks earlier.
I was loyal to EQ. Everyone else at Activision was eagerly anticipating WoW. I muddled through EQ2 for a few weeks, but after joining a guild with my Activision colleagues, I realized WoW was hands down way easier to play on many different levels - primarily just navigating the world was easier. As was moving from quest to quest.
I've never felt a need for add-ons, but I play MMORPG for the story; not to be uber.
Conclusion is that MOBA is not a MMO. Both are multiplayer games, but the difference comes with word Massively. In MMOs massive amount of players are playing at the same time, in the same large world. In MOBA just few are playing in the same arena at the same time. It is very easy to draw the line there.
You said that humans build houses by bricks, and the grass is green. And?
In lol millions of players plays (online) at the same time. More players, than all MMORPG combined. If you call them MMO, it's the bare minimum that you call lol too...
You only play with the words. In fact every battle in lol happens in the same world, the world of Runeterra, so? Not to mention that you said world in the mmos, but zone in lol, however - in fact - even in MMORPG-s, there are onyl few players are in a single zone, so what?
MOBA-s treated as MMO's by market analyst companies, so they are. The massive in MMO means the size of playerbase, regardless whether they play together in the same area/zone/world or not.
Massive in MMO does not mean size of the playerbase and that is where you go wrong direction with your argument. It especially means number of players you are playing at the same time, where you have a possibility to be at straight contact with thousands (or even tens of thousands) of players. In MOBA you are playing with about ten players at the same time.
As I said industry participants treat MOBAs as MMOs, so whatever you feel a MMO is are 100% irrelevant, it ain't goign to change facts...
WOW ended up having the best UI because of people making add ons. The ones that enhanced the UI and the game in general became part of the standard UI. Even small things like using a spell or auto attack on a mob, auto dismount was a add on before it was added to the standard WOW UI. So you use to have to click dismount before you could take any action. Player made UIs can get out of hand but the pros vrs cons, pros win hands down.
That actually incorrect. Addons can't do things like use x on y. Macros can, but that's a different thing.
Not all Addons are bad, and no one is taking this one away.
Addons are always a bad thing if those gives some benefit over other players who are not using one. WoW let this go way too far with mandatory addons. Downloading addons through Curse was also good way to get some viruses and malwares as a side bonus.
I think you missed the joke lol. The addon is the AOC Coffee mug.
Well you said: "Not all Addons are bad, and no one is taking this one away." It looks like you have edited the original post and to me it looks like the joke part is separated from the argument.
WOW ended up having the best UI because of people making add ons. The ones that enhanced the UI and the game in general became part of the standard UI. Even small things like using a spell or auto attack on a mob, auto dismount was a add on before it was added to the standard WOW UI. So you use to have to click dismount before you could take any action. Player made UIs can get out of hand but the pros vrs cons, pros win hands down.
Well if it would been just about UI's outfit that would been fine, but we are talking now about much more than that. More like the competitive addons what it comes to raid and PvP content. It was more like WoW's devs fault they did nothing about the UI and i am glad to hear from Steven, that they will make the UI very customable by themselfs.
P.S. if you dont like an add on and a guild is telling you, you have to use it to join. You most likely wont like the play style. So thats a moot point.
Right.. I guess you have not played WoW's end-game raid content and how you would need specific addons or you would not have a chance to compete. I was a hardcore player back then (not anymore) and used the same mandatory addons like others. I hated it how we needed to rely something outside of the game (and constant update) and how much those gave benefit over newcomers or casuals for example and how dps meters did everybody dicks. And yes there was guild rules for specific addons you needed to RBGs' and raids or you could not attempt.
Intrepid can ban any add on they dont want. Blizzard did ban many add ons and if you got caught using them, your account was closed. The add ons you hated using, were part of Blizzards accepted list. Intrepid can also decide what add ons are changing the game in directions they dont want and shut them down. The trade off is the huge life improvements that players address much faster then the devs can. Face it they are more concerned with content then all the little things that drive us nuts. Fostering a good add on community helps player retention. You want a healthy game, build a good add on community. Set guidelines on what will get you banned. 100% for add ons even though I hated some of the add ons Blizzard put a stamp of approval on.
I am talking about approved addons and not the banned ones. It is easier to left addons out and not let those corrupt the game. I am sure those are not needed.
Not all Addons are bad, and no one is taking this one away.
Addons are always a bad thing if those gives some benefit over other players who are not using one. WoW let this go way too far with mandatory addons. Downloading addons through Curse was also good way to get some viruses and malwares as a side bonus.
I think you missed the joke lol. The addon is the AOC Coffee mug.
Well you said: "Not all Addons are bad, and no one is taking this one away." It looks like you have edited the original post and to me it looks like the joke part is separated from the argument.
Yes I changed it so what I intended was more obvious.
No one is going to take this one away I thought would be obvious the first time as it was followed by an AOC coffee mug.
Actually tho not all add ons are bad and the developers have stated they may produce some add ons. Like maybe being bale to tap into guild chat on the phone or be able to see World event announcements.
And those actually wouldn't be bad, especially if they are developed by Intrepid with security in mind. Where relevant data couldn't be mined. There are those people that work after all or have families to take care of, it would help them prioritise what little time they have to actually play.
There are definitely those that can be harmful as well. In a day where selling gold on websites wasn't as prominent it was fun having player driven UI mods. But they also sometimes lead to some UI mods giving some players advantages over others which well isnt really fair and those types of things should be controlled and restrictions put in to limit those types of things.
There were some UI that were harmless that made the chat interface and organization much easier but left the door open for things such as maps that show nodes or track names mobs or allowed for semi automated to sometimes full automated scripts which is bad in today's climate of gold and loot websites.
It's a double edge sword and it all depends on how it is done. If addons are added it's probably best to limit it to what intrepid decides to create.
As for the AOC coffee mug yeah it will help me stay awake longer than some people but no one will be taking that away from me :P
Holy hell batman.....on and on with the WoW talk (and I've played it since the beginning but still..) this is AoC's website. I for one like the idea of NOT allowing many add-on's in AoC.... A well thought out and customization base GUI shouldn't require much by way of an add-on. As long time MMORPG gamer I've been on the good and bad sides of things like dps meters as well...the good -- when I learned my rotations and abilities well I did get noticed for being a consistently decent dpser so I had no problems getting raid invites if I wanted to go. HOWEVER, before all that...before as the kids say today "I got good"....I was earnestly trying (I never did the afk thing) but I was terrible. Bottom of the dps charts more than once. I couldn't believe the ridicule I got over it -- once a RL called me out in the middle of the raid on voice comms....and get this "he begged me to go to that raid because they were short players....I flat out said I didn't want to go...and in all honesty I said I'm not that good...".... All that was kicked off by running dps meters. So I've seen both sides....I think more good comes from NOT having them than from having them. BTW, if your theory is "well sounds like you got good from getting heckled and what not when you were bad so the meters actually worked....." Not really. There was a space of time between the good and bad play of about a year or so. I found a new guild with super cool people in it who even when they saw crap meters....instead of ridicule they helped, they encouraged... over time that's how I got good. Not from folks making me feel crappy, but from folks helping me be better.
In Wizard101, I was trained to fight by an elite arena PvP group. They power-leveled me, but through watching them, I learned how to take maximize the strengths of each individual in the group and also maximize the weaknesses of our opponents. And I found myself frequently being PMed by people to come help them defeat opponents I'd had no trouble with solo.
With Ashes, we're supposed to be able to stack effects with other people in our group. So, hopefully, learning rotations will really mean learning how to maximize the strengths of those in our party while also taking advantage of the weaknesses of our opponents. Perhaps some groups choose to focus on maximizing Ice attacks while other groups focus on maximizing crits or summoning hordes of minions... or perhaps on summoning together one giant Golem. In a way that you don't need add-ons to tell people how poorly their doing individually, rather you strive to stack the effects that your group likes best.
Holy hell batman.....on and on with the WoW talk (and I've played it since the beginning but still..) this is AoC's website. I for one like the idea of NOT allowing many add-on's in AoC.... A well thought out and customization base GUI shouldn't require much by way of an add-on. As long time MMORPG gamer I've been on the good and bad sides of things like dps meters as well...the good -- when I learned my rotations and abilities well I did get noticed for being a consistently decent dpser so I had no problems getting raid invites if I wanted to go. HOWEVER, before all that...before as the kids say today "I got good"....I was earnestly trying (I never did the afk thing) but I was terrible. Bottom of the dps charts more than once. I couldn't believe the ridicule I got over it -- once a RL called me out in the middle of the raid on voice comms....and get this "he begged me to go to that raid because they were short players....I flat out said I didn't want to go...and in all honesty I said I'm not that good...".... All that was kicked off by running dps meters. So I've seen both sides....I think more good comes from NOT having them than from having them. BTW, if your theory is "well sounds like you got good from getting heckled and what not when you were bad so the meters actually worked....." Not really. There was a space of time between the good and bad play of about a year or so. I found a new guild with super cool people in it who even when they saw crap meters....instead of ridicule they helped, they encouraged... over time that's how I got good. Not from folks making me feel crappy, but from folks helping me be better.
ze fuck? Are you seriously saying that there sohuld be no addons.. cause.. cause the noobs? Seriously? Ppls like you are the ones who ruin the gaming industry... Cause players like U developers trend to create casual fest garbage, just to not offend anyone, and throw rewards at every useless piece of garbage, even if they suck hard, just to lure them into paying in their games... pathetic...
Back in the good days, mostly players who wanted to play and be effective played games. It was a hobby. Now it's more like a kindergarten, where the parent's put their **** kids, as a cheap babysitter service...
That's also the reason why the mmorpg genre is dying. The current generation want to get reward without actually puttign effort into anything. They hate grinding, learning, or finding out things. They want things, not later, not after they reach it, they want it now, and for no effort!
Also IDC what game did you play, but usualy you should learn in a 5man dungeon (or similar small instance) and not in a main raid, so it was the bare minimum that they throw you out. In the first place you should already have learnt the minimum before having raid ready gear, so mabye a bought account?
People who play RPGs -including MMORPGs- are typically playing for the roleplaying aspects - not the gamer aspects. Casual v Hardcore PvE v PvP Hence, the confrontations when the opposing playstyles attempt to play together.
People who play RPGs -including MMORPGs- are typically playing for the roleplaying aspects - not the gamer aspects. Casual v Hardcore PvE v PvP Hence, the confrontations when the opposing playstyles attempt to play together.
Confrontations are understandable at the same time tho we can find respectful ways to confront each other It's good to tone things down and remind each other when things start to get heated, before it gets out of hand.
Edited in: Wait after rereading were you referring to the discussion, in game or both, lol I might have miss read what you wrote
WOW ended up having the best UI because of people making add ons. The ones that enhanced the UI and the game in general became part of the standard UI. Even small things like using a spell or auto attack on a mob, auto dismount was a add on before it was added to the standard WOW UI. So you use to have to click dismount before you could take any action. Player made UIs can get out of hand but the pros vrs cons, pros win hands down.
That actually incorrect. Addons can't do things like use x on y. Macros can, but that's a different thing.
I was there from launch with WoW. I remember putting that add on myself to auto dismount. My guess is you just remember it being there but thats only because Blizzard took it. There were tones of add ons that improved game life over just UI. Here check this link...
People who play RPGs -including MMORPGs- are typically playing for the roleplaying aspects - not the gamer aspects. Casual v Hardcore PvE v PvP Hence, the confrontations when the opposing playstyles attempt to play together.
Confrontations are understandable at the same time tho we can find respectful ways to confront each other It's good to tone things down and remind each other when things start to get heated, before it gets out of hand.
Edited in: Wait after rereading were you referring to the discussion, in game or both, lol I might have miss read what you wrote
Back on the EQNext forums, 4 years ago, the quickest way to get a thread locked and people temporarily banned was to create a PvP combat topic. Because every option the hardcore PvP fans suggested was perceived as insulting to the PvErs and casual PvPers, and every option the PvEers suggested was perceived as insulting to the hardcore PvPers.
That should also be expected with conversations between opposing playstyles like hardcore challenge v casual challenge. Because the hardcore challenge folk don't respect the casual challenge playstyle. And the casual challenge folk just want to make sure there is plenty of casual challenge content in the game and don't really care how that affects hardcore challenge folk.
You should know going into those kinds of threads that they're likely to become heated. Friendly reminders to tone down are always good, though.
Holy hell batman.....on and on with the WoW talk (and I've played it since the beginning but still..) this is AoC's website. I for one like the idea of NOT allowing many add-on's in AoC.... A well thought out and customization base GUI shouldn't require much by way of an add-on. As long time MMORPG gamer I've been on the good and bad sides of things like dps meters as well...the good -- when I learned my rotations and abilities well I did get noticed for being a consistently decent dpser so I had no problems getting raid invites if I wanted to go. HOWEVER, before all that...before as the kids say today "I got good"....I was earnestly trying (I never did the afk thing) but I was terrible. Bottom of the dps charts more than once. I couldn't believe the ridicule I got over it -- once a RL called me out in the middle of the raid on voice comms....and get this "he begged me to go to that raid because they were short players....I flat out said I didn't want to go...and in all honesty I said I'm not that good...".... All that was kicked off by running dps meters. So I've seen both sides....I think more good comes from NOT having them than from having them. BTW, if your theory is "well sounds like you got good from getting heckled and what not when you were bad so the meters actually worked....." Not really. There was a space of time between the good and bad play of about a year or so. I found a new guild with super cool people in it who even when they saw crap meters....instead of ridicule they helped, they encouraged... over time that's how I got good. Not from folks making me feel crappy, but from folks helping me be better.
Finally, someone with respect towards AoC forums. I hate seeing WoW mentioned on here. This isn't WoW, if people want WoW and all its add-on nonsense, they should go play WoW. Steven has already said that add-ons and all 3rd party programs will not be a thing, thankfully.
Holy hell batman.....on and on with the WoW talk (and I've played it since the beginning but still..) this is AoC's website. I for one like the idea of NOT allowing many add-on's in AoC.... A well thought out and customization base GUI shouldn't require much by way of an add-on. As long time MMORPG gamer I've been on the good and bad sides of things like dps meters as well...the good -- when I learned my rotations and abilities well I did get noticed for being a consistently decent dpser so I had no problems getting raid invites if I wanted to go. HOWEVER, before all that...before as the kids say today "I got good"....I was earnestly trying (I never did the afk thing) but I was terrible. Bottom of the dps charts more than once. I couldn't believe the ridicule I got over it -- once a RL called me out in the middle of the raid on voice comms....and get this "he begged me to go to that raid because they were short players....I flat out said I didn't want to go...and in all honesty I said I'm not that good...".... All that was kicked off by running dps meters. So I've seen both sides....I think more good comes from NOT having them than from having them. BTW, if your theory is "well sounds like you got good from getting heckled and what not when you were bad so the meters actually worked....." Not really. There was a space of time between the good and bad play of about a year or so. I found a new guild with super cool people in it who even when they saw crap meters....instead of ridicule they helped, they encouraged... over time that's how I got good. Not from folks making me feel crappy, but from folks helping me be better.
Finally, someone with respect towards AoC forums. I hate seeing WoW mentioned on here. This isn't WoW, if people want WoW and all its add-on nonsense, they should go play WoW. Steven has already said that add-ons and all 3rd party programs will not be a thing, thankfully.
Actually not entirely true (possibly ), I think he did say QOL supplements may be looked at. Tho I imagine if they happen it would be done by Intrepid and not 3rd party. I wouldn't be able to tell you what video it was but I remember it came up when he was answering questions.
I think more in the lines with maybe guild chat app or world announcement sort of stuff. Nothing that goes overboard to the point where it gives an unrealistic advantage over others if people didn't want to use it. ( Not specifically what he referred to but I imagine if they did make something it would be along these lines. )
Maybe I am remembering wrong but I am sure this was brought up in an interview at one point.
If I run into the video again I'll post the link. Could just be in my head but I'm pretty sure it was brought up if anyone remembers what video it was or if I'm remembering wrong.
Finally, someone with respect towards AoC forums. I hate seeing WoW mentioned on here. This isn't WoW, if people want WoW and all its add-on nonsense, they should go play WoW. Steven has already said that add-ons and all 3rd party programs will not be a thing, thankfully.
That's not how it works... They can prevent add-ons, but they have exactly 0saying in whether there will be 3th programs or not. If the game will be sucesfull there will be players who will create programs to it. They can try to wage a war agains them, burning loots of rescource in the process, but it's virtually impossible to prevent them. Ofc if it will end up as "one of many failed mmo's", then noone will goign to waste his time on making 3th programs, but It still doesn't mean that it's imposible...
Finally, someone with respect towards AoC forums. I hate seeing WoW mentioned on here. This isn't WoW, if people want WoW and all its add-on nonsense, they should go play WoW. Steven has already said that add-ons and all 3rd party programs will not be a thing, thankfully.
That's not how it works... They can prevent add-ons, but they have exactly 0saying in whether there will be 3th programs or not. If the game will be sucesfull there will be players who will create programs to it. They can try to wage a war agains them, burning loots of rescource in the process, but it's virtually impossible to prevent them. Ofc if it will end up as "one of many failed mmo's", then noone will goign to waste his time on making 3th programs, but It still doesn't mean that it's imposible...
I think what @Flameh0t is trying to say is, that if Intrepid catches any players using 3rd party programs in Ashes, those players will be punished...possibly banned. Depending on how they decide to approach this topic. So far, Steven has been pretty resistant to the idea of 3rd party programs, and add-ons, being a thing in Ashes. I'm cool with that.
If a game needs add-ons, and such, to be playable or fun, then maybe it wasn't much of game to begin with, imo.
I think dps meters can be very detrimental to people who are afraid of being called out for sucking. But I also want them because they are the single greatest tool to enhance yourself.
Instead of a 3rd party tool how about an in game one like a target dummy that only you get to see the results of?
Holy hell batman.....on and on with the WoW talk (and I've played it since the beginning but still..) this is AoC's website. I for one like the idea of NOT allowing many add-on's in AoC....
Finally, someone with respect towards AoC forums. I hate seeing WoW mentioned on here. This isn't WoW, if people want WoW and all its add-on nonsense, they should go play WoW. Steven has already said that add-ons and all 3rd party programs will not be a thing, thankfully.
So referring to another game is showing disrespect against Ashes.. right. Where people can base their arguments and how they can share their gaming experiences before if they should not mention another games?
Holy hell batman.....on and on with the WoW talk (and I've played it since the beginning but still..) this is AoC's website. I for one like the idea of NOT allowing many add-on's in AoC....
Finally, someone with respect towards AoC forums. I hate seeing WoW mentioned on here. This isn't WoW, if people want WoW and all its add-on nonsense, they should go play WoW. Steven has already said that add-ons and all 3rd party programs will not be a thing, thankfully.
So referring to another game is showing disrespect against Ashes.. right. Where people can base their arguments and how they can share their gaming experiences before if they should not mention another games?
I have to agree, Personally I get tired of hearing WOW so many times. I played for about 2 months before I quit, a bit too much hand holding for my taste. But that's my personal view. I don't see how referring to it is disrespectful. If I don't want to read yet another WOW mention I can simply move on and choose not to read it. I would not try to convince people to stop posting about it, it's just as much their right to post it as it is my right not to read it.
Most people labeling DPS meters and log viewers as toxic to the person under-performing are probably not the ones who like more serious competitive gameplay but keep finding themselves with the raid on their shoulders. You essentially are saying you would like to hide that you are being carried, as that overall contributes more to the "fun" in a game over my desire to sort through and find other good players to team up with and hit content I'm sure will require better play.
Do I deny your right to play at a lower tier? Not at all. But I hold to my conviction as a gamer that in any team-play environment I should be able to see at least a bare essentials layout of how everyone did. If everyone in the NBA played in masks to retain anonymity and shirk away from anyone who might negatively judge their performance, teams would only ever get worse.
I absolutely guarantee you that despite how great of a game AoC looks like it's setting itself up to be, many players who enjoy high level content will not be able to stick around with absolutely no addons whatsoever.
Most people labeling DPS meters and log viewers as toxic to the person under-performing are probably not the ones who like more serious competitive gameplay but keep finding themselves with the raid on their shoulders. You essentially are saying you would like to hide that you are being carried, as that overall contributes more to the "fun" in a game over my desire to sort through and find other good players to team up with and hit content I'm sure will require better play.
Do I deny your right to play at a lower tier? Not at all. But I hold to my conviction as a gamer that in any team-play environment I should be able to see at least a bare essentials layout of how everyone did. If everyone in the NBA played in masks to retain anonymity and shirk away from anyone who might negatively judge their performance, teams would only ever get worse.
I absolutely guarantee you that despite how great of a game AoC looks like it's setting itself up to be, many players who enjoy high level content will not be able to stick around with absolutely no addons whatsoever.
Like are you referring to DPS meters/log in game or as an external app?
Honestly wouldn't see the problem with a meter to organise it in game. People dogging on players seems more of a social issue. People like that would probably find a way to do it whether their were logs or not. It's up to people and the community to try to guide that sort of behavior.
Seems like it would make sense to be able to see performance of players. When making teams for Large siege and PVP battles it would make sense to have the data to properly divide people into appropriate groups.
@TimmyS7F When playing games, like MMO's, that incorporate many people, from many places, from many backgrounds, it would be foolish to think that everyone is going to see eye-to-eye, on most issues. Some of the most "heated" debates on these boards have centered around PvP, and third-party programs/add-ons/parsers. And, while I have my own thoughts on the matter, I definitely respect any differing opinions, even if I don't agree with them.
And, I don't think those who prefer to play without logs, and parsers, and such, play at a "lower tier". Just different.
Comments
Everyone else at Activision was eagerly anticipating WoW.
I muddled through EQ2 for a few weeks, but after joining a guild with my Activision colleagues, I realized WoW was hands down way easier to play on many different levels - primarily just navigating the world was easier. As was moving from quest to quest.
I've never felt a need for add-ons, but I play MMORPG for the story; not to be uber.
Addons can't do things like use x on y.
Macros can, but that's a different thing.
It looks like you have edited the original post and to me it looks like the joke part is separated from the argument.
No one is going to take this one away I thought would be obvious the first time as it was followed by an AOC coffee mug.
Actually tho not all add ons are bad and the developers have stated they may produce some add ons. Like maybe being bale to tap into guild chat on the phone or be able to see World event announcements.
And those actually wouldn't be bad, especially if they are developed by Intrepid with security in mind. Where relevant data couldn't be mined. There are those people that work after all or have families to take care of, it would help them prioritise what little time they have to actually play.
There are definitely those that can be harmful as well. In a day where selling gold on websites wasn't as prominent it was fun having player driven UI mods. But they also sometimes lead to some UI mods giving some players advantages over others which well isnt really fair and those types of things should be controlled and restrictions put in to limit those types of things.
There were some UI that were harmless that made the chat interface and organization much easier but left the door open for things such as maps that show nodes or track names mobs or allowed for semi automated to sometimes full automated scripts which is bad in today's climate of gold and loot websites.
It's a double edge sword and it all depends on how it is done. If addons are added it's probably best to limit it to what intrepid decides to create.
As for the AOC coffee mug yeah it will help me stay awake longer than some people but no one will be taking that away from me :P
They power-leveled me, but through watching them, I learned how to take maximize the strengths of each individual in the group and also maximize the weaknesses of our opponents.
And I found myself frequently being PMed by people to come help them defeat opponents I'd had no trouble with solo.
With Ashes, we're supposed to be able to stack effects with other people in our group.
So, hopefully, learning rotations will really mean learning how to maximize the strengths of those in our party while also taking advantage of the weaknesses of our opponents.
Perhaps some groups choose to focus on maximizing Ice attacks while other groups focus on maximizing crits or summoning hordes of minions... or perhaps on summoning together one giant Golem.
In a way that you don't need add-ons to tell people how poorly their doing individually, rather you strive to stack the effects that your group likes best.
Seriously?
Ppls like you are the ones who ruin the gaming industry... Cause players like U developers trend to create casual fest garbage, just to not offend anyone, and throw rewards at every useless piece of garbage, even if they suck hard, just to lure them into paying in their games...
pathetic...
Back in the good days, mostly players who wanted to play and be effective played games. It was a hobby.
Now it's more like a kindergarten, where the parent's put their **** kids, as a cheap babysitter service...
That's also the reason why the mmorpg genre is dying. The current generation want to get reward without actually puttign effort into anything. They hate grinding, learning, or finding out things. They want things, not later, not after they reach it, they want it now, and for no effort!
Also IDC what game did you play, but usualy you should learn in a 5man dungeon (or similar small instance) and not in a main raid, so it was the bare minimum that they throw you out.
In the first place you should already have learnt the minimum before having raid ready gear, so mabye a bought account?
Casual v Hardcore
PvE v PvP
Hence, the confrontations when the opposing playstyles attempt to play together.
Edited in: Wait after rereading were you referring to the discussion, in game or both, lol I might have miss read what you wrote
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/zonides-auto-dismount
Add on is removed from their page but forum posts about the add on are still there
Because every option the hardcore PvP fans suggested was perceived as insulting to the PvErs and casual PvPers, and every option the PvEers suggested was perceived as insulting to the hardcore PvPers.
That should also be expected with conversations between opposing playstyles like hardcore challenge v casual challenge.
Because the hardcore challenge folk don't respect the casual challenge playstyle.
And the casual challenge folk just want to make sure there is plenty of casual challenge content in the game and don't really care how that affects hardcore challenge folk.
You should know going into those kinds of threads that they're likely to become heated. Friendly reminders to tone down are always good, though.
I think more in the lines with maybe guild chat app or world announcement sort of stuff. Nothing that goes overboard to the point where it gives an unrealistic advantage over others if people didn't want to use it. ( Not specifically what he referred to but I imagine if they did make something it would be along these lines. )
Maybe I am remembering wrong but I am sure this was brought up in an interview at one point.
If I run into the video again I'll post the link. Could just be in my head but I'm pretty sure it was brought up if anyone remembers what video it was or if I'm remembering wrong.
If the game will be sucesfull there will be players who will create programs to it. They can try to wage a war agains them, burning loots of rescource in the process, but it's virtually impossible to prevent them.
Ofc if it will end up as "one of many failed mmo's", then noone will goign to waste his time on making 3th programs, but It still doesn't mean that it's imposible...
If a game needs add-ons, and such, to be playable or fun, then maybe it wasn't much of game to begin with, imo.
Instead of a 3rd party tool how about an in game one like a target dummy that only you get to see the results of?
Do I deny your right to play at a lower tier? Not at all. But I hold to my conviction as a gamer that in any team-play environment I should be able to see at least a bare essentials layout of how everyone did. If everyone in the NBA played in masks to retain anonymity and shirk away from anyone who might negatively judge their performance, teams would only ever get worse.
I absolutely guarantee you that despite how great of a game AoC looks like it's setting itself up to be, many players who enjoy high level content will not be able to stick around with absolutely no addons whatsoever.
Honestly wouldn't see the problem with a meter to organise it in game. People dogging on players seems more of a social issue. People like that would probably find a way to do it whether their were logs or not. It's up to people and the community to try to guide that sort of behavior.
Seems like it would make sense to be able to see performance of players. When making teams for Large siege and PVP battles it would make sense to have the data to properly divide people into appropriate groups.
When playing games, like MMO's, that incorporate many people, from many places, from many backgrounds, it would be foolish to think that everyone is going to see eye-to-eye, on most issues. Some of the most "heated" debates on these boards have centered around PvP, and third-party programs/add-ons/parsers. And, while I have my own thoughts on the matter, I definitely respect any differing opinions, even if I don't agree with them.
And, I don't think those who prefer to play without logs, and parsers, and such, play at a "lower tier". Just different.