Action Combat Teaser Discussion (Weapon Swap)

ArchivedUser

Was very happy to see dodge roll included. Would like to see some characters like Rogue maybe to get wall jumping and dodge just like in Unreal Tournament.

ArchivedUser

Was waiting on the combat preview to decide whether or not I would upgrade to the 150 kickstarter pack and man did I do that shit right after seeing it live! I was starting to get worried about only environmental videos coming out but this completely restored my faith!

ArchivedUser

The issue with having a dodge roll/invulnerability frame that is apparent in GW2 is how it can trivialize PVE content and make support and tanks irrelevant leading to 100% DPS compositions and broken elitist* game mentality. Not saying i don't like dodge rolls but there needs to be a trade off not just a complete damage mitigation on cooldown.

ArchivedUser

Whocando said:

The issue with having a dodge roll/invulnerability frame that is apparent in GW2 is how it can trivialize PVE content and make support and tanks irrelevant leading to 100% DPS compositions and broken elitist* game mentality. Not saying i don't like dodge rolls but there needs to be a trade off not just a complete damage mitigation on cooldown.

As long as an attack lands it should damage not matter if some bloke is rolling around or not, I mean fuck if I drop a meteor on a guys head and he just rolls while the big ball of hatred hits his face and dodges due to that then make him consume half his stamina for 1 roll and attacks consume it too xD. I really think rolling should be more like a side step function and not give a invulnerability frame.

ArchivedUser

Nephin said:

Weapon swap and dodge roll are almost a must for me after ESO and GW2, so I cannot be happier to see them appearing.

I was a huge fan of GW2 combat but I would have liked it to have more of the holy trinity. They’ve added some of that stuff to the game recently which was nice. 

Italso lacked any world pvp. It’s actually a really good game but unfortunately it missed the mark at some points that could have made it a great game. 

ArchivedUser

Kratz said:

atiqa said:

I'm also getting more and more worried that the game is heavily PvP focused and PvE is being left behind.

I understand your concern but there's plenty of MMO's out there that are PvE heavy and IS will never keep up with the PvE progress of some guilds so they need to get their PvP right to keep folks here which is what so many MMO's have done poorly over the last 10 years. PvP is a central pillar for this game and they need to get it right off the bat or Ashes will be in trouble. I'm confident that IS will address the PvE concerns but it's a question of priorities at this point and we need to be patient. Remember, PvE has been done well in recent MMO's, the platform is there. PvP? Not so much.   

I hope you're right.

Want to make it clear that I'm looking forward to the PvP too, but for me PvE is the core of an MMORPG IMO.

I do agree with them having a long alpha phase dedicated to the combat and PvP, that's promising, but they should then dive into more PvE stuff during their coming livestreams.

I'm sure Intrepid is capable of making it awesome for sure.

ArchivedUser

I was thrilled to see weapon swapping; especially thinking of ranger.  I hope there will be a way to tone down the effects.

And for those worried about the PvP emphasis, remember that Phase 1 is all about PvP to get it sorted.  The PvE stuff will come later; and that is what I am really looking forward to seeing.

ArchivedUser

atiqa said:

" ... I'm also getting more and more worried that the game is heavily PvP focused and PvE is being left behind. How do you make this combat interesting and not spammy in a raid setting? "

The PvP is meant for Content to be long-lasting and not repetitive nor stagnate combat. Rather than trying to find the right words, here's a link

• https://youtu.be/3UIqmWTGZ2k?t=12m1s
• 13:52 - 14:25 timestamp probably being more succinct 

ArchivedUser

https://youtu.be/gPgmna33pb4 yessss really nice video 

ArchivedUser

atiqa said:

Not sure what to think about it yet. Full on action combat in an MMO with a huge amount of players an latency can be really bad. This footage looks more like small scale battleground centric combat.

It does look good though.

I'm also getting more and more worried that the game is heavily PvP focused and PvE is being left behind. How do you make this combat interesting and not spammy in a raid setting?

I think you are asking a good question here. If Intrepid's design choices so far are anything to go by, I think it is safe to bet they are going to make raids interesting.

ArchivedUser

It's kinda weird that you have to aim so precisely with the bow. In other games you can just aim closely to the target and it will hit. Even for action combat games that's very unusual for

ArchivedUser

atiqa said:

Kratz said:

atiqa said:

I'm also getting more and more worried that the game is heavily PvP focused and PvE is being left behind.

I understand your concern but there's plenty of MMO's out there that are PvE heavy and IS will never keep up with the PvE progress of some guilds so they need to get their PvP right to keep folks here which is what so many MMO's have done poorly over the last 10 years. PvP is a central pillar for this game and they need to get it right off the bat or Ashes will be in trouble. I'm confident that IS will address the PvE concerns but it's a question of priorities at this point and we need to be patient. Remember, PvE has been done well in recent MMO's, the platform is there. PvP? Not so much.   

but they should then dive into more PvE stuff during their coming livestreams.

I have no doubt they will.

ArchivedUser

So far so good to me. The weapon swapping took me by surprise a bit. I agree with others it should have some limitations to it. 

Some of the animations looked at bit awkward but I expected that with Alpha 1 footage. I am still hyped for the game. The mage meteors and blinks and everything looked good I do want to see some more Cleric in action though. None dps spells to see how healing works in their action combat system as I will more than likely be focusing on that class next month. 

ArchivedUser

I was honestly blown away at the amount of progress Intrepid have made in the past few months. I wasn't expecting a lot the mechanics shown in the trailer to already be in place. This has reinforced my confidence in the studio & team, and I'm excited to see how the eventual hybrid action / tab targeting system works.

With that being said, I hope that as the team refines the combat, a lot of consideration is given to how the combat will function in large scale PVP battles. I simply cannot see an over the shoulder "Warframe" style working for this format. It would be near impossible to understand what is going on, especially given the insane amount of mobility that's been showcased in the trailer.

At the very least, an FOV slider would be needed. However, action combat tends to get a be trickier when e.g. zoomed out for a max FOV. Due to having skill-shots and something akin to an ADS system as showcased in the trailer, increasing FOV seems like it could be a hindrance when it comes to the the technical aspect of the action combat.

On the other hand, a max FOV is almost always going to prove beneficial for tab targeting combat. 

So, it will be extremely interesting to see how these two systems come together. The biggest challenge IMO will be making the two styles of combat feel good when used together in the context of large scale PVP battles. This a challenge that I know Intrepid understands, but I hope they're able to crack it!

ArchivedUser

Spun666 said:

Anyone have thoughts on the weapon swapping?

I thought using a staff (or is it a spear?) with a bow while throwing magic was... odd but freedom is a super selling point for the game already with the class shenanigans so I was more happy they made the combat muchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh better than it was before. 

Still needs work but was expecting worse based on what I saw before, was honestly worried about it but now I'm pleasantly surprised!!!

ArchivedUser

Wet said:

I was honestly blown away at the amount of progress Intrepid have made in the past few months. I wasn't expecting a lot the mechanics shown in the trailer to already be in place. This has reinforced my confidence in the studio & team, and I'm excited to see how the eventual hybrid action / tab targeting system works.

With that being said, I hope that as the team refines the combat, a lot of consideration is given to how the combat will function in large scale PVP battles. I simply cannot see an over the shoulder "Warframe" style working for this format. It would be near impossible to understand what is going on, especially given the insane amount of mobility that's been showcased in the trailer.

At the very least, an FOV slider would be needed. However, action combat tends to get a be trickier when e.g. zoomed out for a max FOV. Due to having skill-shots and something akin to an ADS system as showcased in the trailer, increasing FOV seems like it could be a hindrance when it comes to the the technical aspect of the action combat.

On the other hand, a max FOV is almost always going to prove beneficial for tab targeting combat. 

So, it will be extremely interesting to see how these two systems come together. The biggest challenge IMO will be making the two styles of combat feel good when used together in the context of large scale PVP battles. This a challenge that I know Intrepid understands, but I hope they're able to crack it!

I share a lot of the same feelings. I honestly am okay with a mostly tab targetted standard "mmo" style. I just feel like it is a better mechanic for this style of game. 

It really comes down to testing it and giving good feedback on it during the alpha phases.

ArchivedUser

Dodge rolling and weapon swap is a great addition! 

If its anything like ESO where even if dodge roll has an invincibility frame, any AoE or undodgeable abilities will still hot you if you dodge roll. Plus I'm sure they'll have a stacking cost if it is spammed, to keep it from being abused


But yea definitley in modern gaming Dodge roll and weapon swap are a necessity for action combat

ArchivedUser

I pray that weapon swap makes it to the live game.  In real life you can change a weapon on the fly, so in game should be the exact same!  

I know that my mage would be really miffed if after setting half the town on fire with his potion launcher that he couldn't swap to his dagger and stab that citizen attacker who ran in close to stop him.

ArchivedUser

I loved the weapon swapping.  I'm good with the dodge rolling as well.  I'm kind of iffy on the constant kiting but we'll see.  I'm going to have to watch the video a few more times to get a better grasp on what I was seeing; all of the explosions and spell effects were very distracting.  It made it hard to see the actual animations.

ArchivedUser

What the heck happened to this game haha man. Last time I watched any gameplay it was slower paced with tab targeting.

ArchivedUser

Ferretstalker said:

What the heck happened to this game haha man. Last time I watched any gameplay it was slower paced with tab targeting.

Times are definitely a-changing.

ArchivedUser

I think the hybrid combat is going to be great and healing/tanking in the game will be a lot of fun and very dynamic as a result.

ArchivedUser

I'm wondering if we are going to be able to see weapons we are not using being holstered somewhere on our body? In the trailer it almost seems that when you weapon swap, the weapon you pull out just comes out of your pocket. I really hope this is not the case. 

Also, how many weapons will we be able to have equipped at any one time?

ArchivedUser

Dragnon said:

I'm wondering if we are going to be able to see weapons we are not using being holstered somewhere on our body? In the trailer it almost seems that when you weapon swap, the weapon you pull out just comes out of your pocket. I really hope this is not the case. 

Also, how many weapons will we be able to have equipped at any one time?

I think that would be in the pipeline as it seems like something Steven and team would really want in the game.

I would guess no more than 2 "Sets" at a time.