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The Intrepid pack has been significantly devalued

Let me preface this by saying that writing a forum thread on a controversial issue was something I'd much rather not be doing, but I consider the issue significant enough that it cannot be helped. 

That issue being the opening up of the formerly exclusive alpha one to literally all registered users after only a month of uptime, including those who did not back the game at all. When this was billed as a single month of open testing, I was willing to overlook it without much comment, but if it is to be persistent as the email seems to imply then there are some concerns which I feel should be addressed.

Before I get into those, let me say I do understand the reason for this change in direction for alpha exclusivity, and agree more or less it is probably good for the game as a whole. I do not object to "letting everybody in" so to speak.

The issue, for me, is that the Intrepid pack and Braver of Worlds packs were sold with the full expectation this was the only real way into the alpha. Now, Bravers have a lifetime sub to fall back on as far as value is concerned, but Intrepid pack backers have no such perk.

Alpha 1 was the single biggest motivation to go from a $250 Voyager pre-order pack to the $500 Intrepid per-order pack. And now that perk has gone from exclusive access to early access.

I'm going to be blunt. If this information about registered users all being allowed in pretty early on had been made known when the packs were sold, I think we can all agree the sales would have been much lower. I fully believe this decision was made for the good of the game, but now I don't feel out of line in saying I worry any future big ticket purchases I make might be devalued as well.

And I don't think I will be the only one who feels that way either. I hope Intrepid takes this into consideration. Thank you.
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Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    You are overcomplicating it by a mile and then some


    I bought into Alpha one access with a Leader Of Men package over a year ago during Kickstarter.

    They are adding the new cycle as a SHORT Additional stress test to make sure their servers can handle large amounts of people at one time.

    The testers will (by and far) still have the Majority of testing time. And keep in mind Alpha 1 is nothing but combat for a small range area and them testing the servers NOW instead of later during launch is FAR more desirable

    I  cant imagine anyone would want AoC to not stress test their servers to make sure they work with actual numbers of people.

    Your pack is not devalued in any way. It still gets the earlierst testing phases with Intrepid allowing registered users to get a small glimpse of it occasionally and also help out in their own small way.
  • Gigabear said:


    Alpha 1 was the single biggest motivation to go from a $250 pack to the $500 pack. And now that perk has gone from exclusive access to early access.
    Unless I'm mistaken, the single biggest motivation to get from any lower tier to BoW was purely the Lifetime subscription. I know that was certainly the case for me, and I would imagine that most people who bought into that package specifically was because it meant they would never have to worry about paying a sub, the rest was window dressing.
  • I understand your concern. Though I think our generous purchases have to be looked at as to support a new way of thinking for MMORPG's that is no pay to win. At least that's how I feel when I went deep in the pocket. I am supporting a new philosophy or old however you choose to look at it that had been left by the wayside for the cash grab. Hope this helps you to get a more favorable outlook on AOC { }
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Had the double post. No idea how to delete :-P
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Gigabear said:


    Alpha 1 was the single biggest motivation to go from a $250 pack to the $500 pack. And now that perk has gone from exclusive access to early access.
    Unless I'm mistaken, the single biggest motivation to get from any lower tier to BoW was purely the Lifetime subscription. I know that was certainly the case for me, and I would imagine that most people who bought into that package specifically was because it meant they would never have to worry about paying a sub, the rest was window dressing.
    I was referencing the Intrepid pack. As noted earlier, BoW pack has extra value on that lifetime sub so this isn't as much of an issue for those players.

    You are overcomplicating it by a mile and then some


    I bought into Alpha one access with a Leader Of Men package over a year ago during Kickstarter.

    They are adding the new cycle as a SHORT Additional stress test to make sure their servers can handle large amounts of people at one time.

    The testers will (by and far) still have the Majority of testing time. And keep in mind Alpha 1 is nothing but combat for a small range area and them testing the servers NOW instead of later during launch is FAR more desirable

    I  cant imagine anyone would want AoC to not stress test their servers to make sure they work with actual numbers of people.

    Your pack is not devalued in any way. It still gets the earlierst testing phases with Intrepid allowing registered users to get a small glimpse of it occasionally and also help out in their own small way.
    I made it abundantly clear in my OP that I support the decision here to open alpha 1 up to all users and most of this seems a rebuttal to a post I never actual made. 

    As for my pack not being devalued, it absolutely was. Everyone expected Alpha to be exclusive to backers when they purchased. This was further reinforced when Intrepid sent out emails a short time ago hammering the point that if you didn't get it now, you'd miss your chance.

    The first time we got even an inkling of an open alpha was after all sales had been finalized.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    We are over 4 months ahead of schedule for Alpha 1, and they decided to ADD more people to help stress test the servers

    How can anyone rationalize that this is a negative thing in any way?!? I'm sorry I just dont agree with this logic.


    I paid at the 4th highest tier for the earliest access over a year ago and this makes me HAPPY they are doing it earlier, Bigger, and ultimately BETTER.

    I feel my pack has GAINED value because now people are actually involved in a massive way. The early stress test does not include alphas or beta testing. Its just a simple extra few days to test server capacities. Thats not a devaluation
  • We are over 4 months ahead of schedule for Alpha 1, and they decided to ADD more people to help stress test the servers

    How can anyone rationalize that this is a negative thing in any way?!? I'm sorry I just dont agree with this logic.
    I have not done that. Adding more people is GOOD for the game, IMO. 

    The early stress test does not include alphas or beta testing. Its just a simple extra few days to test server capacities. Thats not a devaluation
    Not even sure how this is relevant? The topic is about alpha one, not the stress test.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Gigabear said:
    We are over 4 months ahead of schedule for Alpha 1, and they decided to ADD more people to help stress test the servers

    How can anyone rationalize that this is a negative thing in any way?!? I'm sorry I just dont agree with this logic.
    I have not done that. Adding more people is GOOD for the game, IMO. 

    The early stress test does not include alphas or beta testing. Its just a simple extra few days to test server capacities. Thats not a devaluation
    Not even sure how this is relevant? The topic is about alpha one, not the stress test.
    Okay well we can agree on that it is good for the game.

    I just dont see how it is a devaluation. The game itself only has value if enough people are interested. Being more inclusive with more people will ultimately benifit your account more because if you have A1 Access, then now the following phases are more relevant and desirable. Especially if you have Beta keys to give away. 

    And the stress test is relevant in that it is part of A1 testing
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    think of it this way:

    you purchase a theme park ticket that advertises access to 10 attractions and when you get to the theme park gate you realize that 1 of those 10 attractions was free and you could have gone to that attraction without paying anything at all. And then you feel betrayed because you thought you were buying access to 10 attractions and not 9 with one that's free for everyone.

    But I think you should try to be happy for the other 9 attractions you got. Unless that one attraction was the only real appeal to you. And also you should realize that testing access was never, not in the Kickstarter, not in the intrepid packs branded as exclusive. So technically they could give all testing access for free to everyone and nobody would be able to say: "but I thought that I had to buy those D=".

    Don't get me wrong I understand why you feel like you didn't get what you thought you were paying for, but the truth is it was never stated that paying was the only way to get access, it's not exclusive.

    Edit: Punctuation
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    and the stress test is relevant in that it is part of A1 testing
    True, but only backers are getting into the stress test.

    I just dont see how it is a devaluation. The game itself only has value if enough people are interested. Being more inclusive with more people will ultimately benifit your account more because if you have A1 Access, then now the following phases are more relevant and desirable. Especially if you have Beta keys to give away. 
    Exclusivity IS value though. That is the entire premise upon which the whole cosmetic cash shop is based, so Intrepid well understands the principle. People have varying levels of value they place in that exclusivity. Some like me can overlook when it is made less exclusive, others not so much.

    The point is that if you're selling exclusive cosmetics, and get into making exclusive things so they are no longer exclusive, then people will put less value in exclusivity if they know it may not stick.

    This will cut into the cash shop profits we need to develop and maintain the game. The value of exclusivity must be preserved, or at least recognized. I feel some compensation is in order for Alpha 1 backers, even if it's just some small cosmetic or something minor. Not because I want "free stuff" but because I want to know the value of the exclusivity we lost is properly respected.

    Santy182 said:
    Don't get me wrong I understand why you feel like you didn't get what you thought you were paying for, but the truth is it was never stated that paying was the only way to get access, it's not exclusive.
    It was probably never explicitly stated, but it was VERY heavily implied. I draw little distinction between the two.

    Further, I don't consider getting access to all 3 modes of A1P1 testing just one out of 10 rides. It's the entire pie, just a bit later.

    Further testing phases may or may not be exclusive. Those have not been clarified. Nobody as yet thought to ask, being as though until PAX it was understood generally ALL testing would be exclusive.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Gigabear said:
    and the stress test is relevant in that it is part of A1 testing
    True, but only backers are getting into the stress test.

    I just dont see how it is a devaluation. The game itself only has value if enough people are interested. Being more inclusive with more people will ultimately benifit your account more because if you have A1 Access, then now the following phases are more relevant and desirable. Especially if you have Beta keys to give away. 
    Exclusivity IS value though. That is the entire premise upon which the whole cosmetic cash shop is based, so Intrepid well understands the principle. People have varying levels of value they place in that exclusivity. Some like me can overlook when it is made less exclusive, others not so much.

    The point is that if you're selling exclusive cosmetics, and get into making exclusive things so they are no longer exclusive, then people will put less value in exclusivity if they know it may not stick.

    This will cut into the cash shop profits we need to develop and maintain the game. The value of exclusivity must be preserved, or at least recognized. I feel some compensation is in order for Alpha 1 backers, even if it's just some small cosmetic or something minor. Not because I want "free stuff" but because I want to know the value of the exclusivity we lost is properly respected.

    Well cosmetic exclusivity is indeed value.

    But not Aplha testing as it and everything about it is limited in function and utility. This was a bonus move by Intrepid to even allow this testing cycle.

    I'm just going to have to agree to disagee because I am in the A1 Testing this week and I, in no way shape or form feel anything has devalued. Testing cycles are not what you should seek exclusivity for nor feel important for. That is what actual cosmetics are designed around
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    When Kickstarters and other early backers (intrepid pack included) purchased these things with the intent of Exclusive Alpha 1 access, they were expecting the following kind of situation in their minds:
    • Progression to level 20
    • Nodes will be fully functional and progress to level 3.
      • Includes shops, government, freeholds!
    • four out of nine races available
    • All eight base classes available
    • Character creation suite
    • 25% of the total world space implemented
    • Concurrent server population 10,000
    • 2-3 Servers
    All of that, to me, sure sounds like something you would expect with an exclusive Alpha.

    What is Intrepid giving to everyone for free AFTER Alpha testers are done with it? A Battle Royale. 

    Again, a Battle Royale.

    All that other stuff I mentioned earlier? That is still exclusive. I feel your concern is entirely misplaced.

  • I'm just going to have to agree to disagee because I am in the A1 Testing this week and I, in no way shape or form feel anything has devalued. Testing cycles are not what you should seek exclusivity for nor feel important for. That is what actual cosmetics

    If the tests weren't intended to be treated that way, then shouldn't have been low key marketed as exclusive perks for backers.

    Here's the text from the KS page itself: "Invite to Closed Alpha - Phase 1 (Earliest Access to Ashes!)"

    But it's not a closed alpha. It's an open alpha. And again, I can get behind this change, but it has to be said they definitely gave every indication the alphas were closed. They literally said this.

    For the record, I FULLY intend to ACTUALLY test the game, and not treat it as some kind of demo. I didn't buy into the test just to get to play early. I don't mind that other people who paid nothing will be along side me.

    What is bothering me is how this will look to other potential backers who are not as committed to the vision as I am. I showed up late to the party, but I know all about the LTS/summer backer/ exclusivity drama. But, Steven somewhat made good on that in the end.
  • Was it stated anywhere how long 'open alpha' was going to last? I was under the impression, just, like a week, if that.

    If so, and it is short, it's just a tiny slice in the overall exclusive alpha pie that will be several months long.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Krojak said:
    When Kickstarters and other early backers (intrepid pack included) purchased these things with the intent of Exclusive Alpha 1 access, they were expecting the following kind of situation in their minds:
    • Progression to level 20
    • Nodes will be fully functional and progress to level 3.
      • Includes shops, government, freeholds!
    • four out of nine races available
    • All eight base classes available
    • Character creation suite
    • 25% of the total world space implemented
    • Concurrent server population 10,000
    • 2-3 Servers
    All of that, to me, sure sounds like something you would expect with an exclusive Alpha.

    What is Intrepid giving to everyone for free AFTER Alpha testers are done with it? A Battle Royale. 

    Again, a Battle Royale.

    All that other stuff I mentioned earlier? That is still exclusive. I feel your concern is entirely misplaced.

    Everything you just cited was released in the final month of sales. And you speak for what "all backers" had in their minds, but I can say for certain that isn't at all what i had in mind. I was expecting a CLOSED ALPHA.

    There is also no guarantee on the exclusivity of any of the further testing phases. What was said, and I note we are getting conflicting information, is all 3 A1P1 modes would be opening to registered users, not just battle royale.

    Getting a confirmation that alpha 1 phase 2 will be backer only would go a long way towards reinforcing the value of exclusivity(which I totally should have made the topic title)

    EDIT: After writing this I was linked some citations in discord which addresses many of my concerns. Name that only arena is going to everyone, and only backers get into the "true" alpha. So, those are both good things.
  • Gigabear said:
    Krojak said:
    When Kickstarters and other early backers (intrepid pack included) purchased these things with the intent of Exclusive Alpha 1 access, they were expecting the following kind of situation in their minds:
    • Progression to level 20
    • Nodes will be fully functional and progress to level 3.
      • Includes shops, government, freeholds!
    • four out of nine races available
    • All eight base classes available
    • Character creation suite
    • 25% of the total world space implemented
    • Concurrent server population 10,000
    • 2-3 Servers
    All of that, to me, sure sounds like something you would expect with an exclusive Alpha.

    What is Intrepid giving to everyone for free AFTER Alpha testers are done with it? A Battle Royale. 

    Again, a Battle Royale.

    All that other stuff I mentioned earlier? That is still exclusive. I feel your concern is entirely misplaced.

    Everything you just cited was released in the final month of sales. And you speak for what "all backers" had in their minds, but I can say for certain that isn't at all what i had in mind. I was expecting a CLOSED ALPHA.

    There is also no guarantee on the exclusivity of any of the further testing phases. What was said, and I note we are getting conflicting information, is all 3 A1P1 modes would be opening to registered users, not just battle royale.

    Getting a confirmation that alpha 1 phase 2 will be backer only would go a long way towards reinforcing the value of exclusivity(which I totally should have made the topic title)
    If the public is getting access to all 3 phases of Alpha 1 upon the conclusion of KS and other backers having tested them, then they are getting a Battle Royale, and Attack/Defense Castle Siege, and a Zombie Wave like Horde Mode.

    Given that information, I still see no basis for anyone being upset about the "exclusivity" of Alpha Access, as those three modes are not what anyone would even consider an Alpha to an MMORPG. 

    If Intrepid comes out and says "Everyone will have access to Alpha 1 Phase 2 for free" then we have a right to be angry. Allowing the public to test those toys after we're done with them? Not a problem at all.
  • Gigabear said:
    Krojak said:
    When Kickstarters and other early backers (intrepid pack included) purchased these things with the intent of Exclusive Alpha 1 access, they were expecting the following kind of situation in their minds:
    • Progression to level 20
    • Nodes will be fully functional and progress to level 3.
      • Includes shops, government, freeholds!
    • four out of nine races available
    • All eight base classes available
    • Character creation suite
    • 25% of the total world space implemented
    • Concurrent server population 10,000
    • 2-3 Servers
    All of that, to me, sure sounds like something you would expect with an exclusive Alpha.

    What is Intrepid giving to everyone for free AFTER Alpha testers are done with it? A Battle Royale. 

    Again, a Battle Royale.

    All that other stuff I mentioned earlier? That is still exclusive. I feel your concern is entirely misplaced.

    Everything you just cited was released in the final month of sales. And you speak for what "all backers" had in their minds, but I can say for certain that isn't at all what i had in mind. I was expecting a CLOSED ALPHA.

    There is also no guarantee on the exclusivity of any of the further testing phases. What was said, and I note we are getting conflicting information, is all 3 A1P1 modes would be opening to registered users, not just battle royale.

    Getting a confirmation that alpha 1 phase 2 will be backer only would go a long way towards reinforcing the value of exclusivity(which I totally should have made the topic title)

    EDIT: After writing this I was linked some citations in discord which addresses many of my concerns. Name that only arena is going to everyone, and only backers get into the "true" alpha. So, those are both good things.

    Your concerns are/were still valid but hopefully phase 2 stays closed to only the testers who purchased it.  I am happy to share some of phase 1 for it to help the game progress.  
  • Krojak said:
    If Intrepid comes out and says "Everyone will have access to Alpha 1 Phase 2 for free" then we have a right to be angry. Allowing the public to test those toys after we're done with them? Not a problem at all.
    People will be angry regardless. They do not require any sort of justification or basis for it. Some people will surely take issue with a closed alpha becoming an open alpha in ANY respect. I can overlook it I guess for the good of the game. Though I do not expect all backers will do the same.

    Hopefully this doesn't make game media.
  • The issue here, I feel, simply comes down to naming conventions.

    Devs: "Congrats on buying into Alpha 1! This will be a quarter of the world and the first 25 levels of the game!"
    Crowd: *Cheers*

    *Time Passes*

    Devs: "We're adding a bonus round of testing, and Alpha 1 people are getting it for free!"
    Crowd: *Insane cheering*
    Devs: "After a month of testing of this bonus round, we're going to open this thing up to the public for even more robust testing."
    Crowd: *Clapping*
    Devs: "Also we're going to call this extra round of testing an 'Alpha'."
    Crowd: *Angry booing and throwing stuff*

    If the devs just called these 3 specific things (Battle Royale, Siege, Hord) anything other than an Alpha, there would be zero issues here.



  • Gigabear said:
    People will be angry regardless. They do not require any sort of justification or basis for it.
    Yes. Exactly.

    I won't claim to know why you decided to buy into the alpha, but I think most people did it to help the game shape up, and sharing a piece of the alpha with everyone in order to stress the servers as you have said yourself is in the best interest of the game. So I think that feeling angry about it is just selfish.
  • Krojak said:

    And I am glad to hear it. But I wonder if "arena" mode will keep running and all the various combat additions will carry over into it? It would somewhat mitigate this assurance if several major features from A1P2(all 8 archetypes, tab combat) end up also going out to everybody.

    Would I be terribly bent over that? No. But I still hope it doesn't pan out like I speculated there.
  • Santy182 said:

    Gigabear said:
    People will be angry regardless. They do not require any sort of justification or basis for it.
    Yes. Exactly.

    I won't claim to know why you decided to buy into the alpha, but I think most people did it to help the game shape up, and sharing a piece of the alpha with everyone in order to stress the servers as you have said yourself is in the best interest of the game. So I think that feeling angry about it is just selfish.
    I'm not angry, if the last line was in reference to me. I don't even mind sharing the fun. But it's not selfish to purchase a product and wonder why at least part of it is being given away for free with no prior notice.

    My reasons for backing are several. Yes, testing the game to ensure a high level of quality is prominent. Gaining access to exclusive cosmetics was also important to me. And playing ASAP factored in as well.

    I'm definitely behind whatever is best for the game. But going beyond the immediate interests of testing, what is best for the game can become subjective and rooted in opinion.

    My opinion us that consumer confidence is important to any enterprise, and this situation has damaged it.
  • I see.

    It didn't damage it for me.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Santy182 said:
    think of it this way:

    you purchase a theme park ticket that advertises access to 10 attractions and when you get to the theme park gate you realize that 1 of those 10 attractions was free and you could have gone to that attraction without paying anything at all. And then you feel betrayed because you thought you were buying access to 10 attractions and not 9 with one that's free for everyone.

    @Santy182 But that's not how it is. More like this:
    You purchase a theme park ticket that advertises access to 10 attractions at all time until the park closes. And when you get to the theme park gate you realize that 1 of those 10 attractions was free for you in the evening and you could have gone to that attraction in the evening without paying anything at all.

    :)

  • I can understand frustrations for paying for something that others will get for free for a limited time. I don't have an opinion, as I willingly bought into Alpha2 instead of Alpha1, as Alpha2 is supposed to be the consistent Alpha which will later turn into the test server.

    Now I am reading this topic and wonder why I see that Alpha1 and consistent is mentioned in the same sentence. Did they change that from Alpha2 to Alpha1?
  • FliP said:
    I can understand frustrations for paying for something that others will get for free for a limited time. I don't have an opinion, as I willingly bought into Alpha2 instead of Alpha1, as Alpha2 is supposed to be the consistent Alpha which will later turn into the test server.

    Now I am reading this topic and wonder why I see that Alpha1 and consistent is mentioned in the same sentence. Did they change that from Alpha2 to Alpha1?
    Alpha 1 is planned to eventually be up almost all of the time. Trying to find the citation for that, but it was stated to start out at a few days in a stretch and ramp up over time.
  • Does it not depend on the length of the open alpha? How long did they say it would run for? The backers get to test every system there is first and then they want to put as many people in as possible to help with server testing. Depending on how long that runs, all the free testers may get what the backers paid for but if it's not too long then it is only being used as a stress test.

    Personally i have no qualms in the matter. I understand the need to shove as many people in to test capacity and such. It can feel like your buy has no value but lets hope that is not the case and the open test actually helps devs gain good knowledge and such
  • Gigabear said:
    FliP said:
    I can understand frustrations for paying for something that others will get for free for a limited time. I don't have an opinion, as I willingly bought into Alpha2 instead of Alpha1, as Alpha2 is supposed to be the consistent Alpha which will later turn into the test server.

    Now I am reading this topic and wonder why I see that Alpha1 and consistent is mentioned in the same sentence. Did they change that from Alpha2 to Alpha1?
    Alpha 1 is planned to eventually be up almost all of the time. Trying to find the citation for that, but it was stated to start out at a few days in a stretch and ramp up over time.
    Thanks, would love to see that.

    Not that I care, but if that's really the case that Alpha1 will be up and running as a test server until release, then they sort of also devalued the packs that include Alpha2 access.

    I bought that pack specifically so I can test when I want and how long I want, not to be given a time slot somewhen in the middle of the night and have it canceled 15 minutes past it was supposed to start, like it was the case with Alpha0.
  • I would also love to see that quote. afaik the only persistnet alpha is Alpha 2 which means that Alpha 1 will be done and over with before Q3 2019
This discussion has been closed.