Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I haven´t seen any slutty armor so far in Ashes... So how do you see that this is happening to Ashes?
Actually they said they are not going to be slutty bikini plate armors. They want the armors to be realistic in terms of protection. This was said here
And about your point about light armor having no plate. The cleric armor that has been shown (which is probably light armor because its for a cleric) is with plate elements. And it definetly doesn´t look slutty. It does look pretty protective.
I don't care what Steven says because what his team shows speak louder and what he showed us so far when it comes to gear design is what most people don't want. If Intrepid is trying to shoot themselves in a foot they actually managed to do it by choosing art style which most people in EU/NA doesn't like.
Yes, you are right that subjective opinion doesn't serve as proof that something is bad but it also doesn't prove that something is good. That's why I am looking at what they show from a perspective of the in-game content creator not from the perspective of someone who doesn't like "things".
Building community doesn't have anything to do with in-game content design. If a game developer tries to cater to wide variety of tastes and subjective opinions they will end up with a disjointed game where nothing fits together.
If anyone wants to make successful MMORPG and success on western MMO market they need to decide on a style which caters to the most western population. Asian like posh and glamour style IS NOT what western player wants and numbers behind MMORPG games actually prove it especially with WoW being a raining champion of MMORPG genre since it was released. We already had games designed like AoC and those games had poor reception on the western market with many of them failing weeks after initial release.
Magic users can reinforce and heal themselves? Did you ever hear of Paladins which use both offensive and defensive magic and yet they wear full plate armours? Seems like your logic falls short mate.
Just because slut gear in one game doesn't look like slut gear it other game it doesn't mean it's not slut gear.
Realistically, we have seen a small portion of the armors this game is going to offer at release. Probably less than 5% of the armors and options available with all of the modifications you can make. They are not all "Asian" looking to me thinking back on the live streams and images shared by Steven and others. Will there be some that are? Yes, probably. There should be because that aesthetic is liked by some. There will also be others that aren't and have a more euro-centric aesthetic because it will appeal to a different section of the community. Variety is good in weapon and armor designs. Especially if you're trying to create a world that is populated by very different races with different cultures and values things SHOULD look different amongst them just like in real life.
@JinxTheGamer you seem very caught up on this "slut gear" thing though I am not sure what you define it as but I would expect some armor set to offend your sensibilities upon release as they seem to be quite conservative. I'm sure you'll be able to dress your characters in a way you like as well.
He's trying to argue that classes like mages don't need armour or more armour because "magic" and that's factually incorrect because there are classes in RPG/MMORPG genre which are considered heavily armored and they also are spellcasters. Also, there is no rule to design light classes around pure cloth or skin without any plating protecting their vital organs and bones. In fact, I've seen plenty of coherent armour sets designed like it's actually armour and yet designer found a way to make them look beautiful.
He (and apparently you) just can't get through his head that light/spellcasting classes can be designed in another way than just throwing a dress (or something pretending to be a dress) on a character and call it a day.
"We're talking about a fantasy game here. Everything isn't going to be perfectly logical."
This supposed to be an excuse to go full stupid with design?
"Realistically, we have seen a small portion of the armours this game is going to offer at release."
Realistically, they showed us direction in art style they took with gear design. If you agree to what they doing now they won't change anything later because they will think that this is what people want and last time I've checked western community doesn't actually want over the top posh and glamour Asian like stuff.
People in IS clearly think that this is what we want otherwise they wouldn't promote their game with Asian like gear design.
"They are not all "Asian" looking to me thinking back on the live streams and images shared by Steven and others. Will there be some that are? Yes, probably. There should be because that aesthetic is liked by some. There will also be others that aren't and have a more euro-centric aesthetic because it will appeal to a different section of the community. Variety is good in weapon and armor designs. Especially if you're trying to create a world that is populated by very different races with different cultures and values things SHOULD look different amongst them just like in real life. "
The idea of catering to many tastes is a downfall for a game because, in the end, you will get game with doesnt have coherent style and we can already see this problem in some gameplay videos where armour set used by player looks completely apart from the general world design. In fact, many people sated like it doesn't belong in the game. If a game developer can't set solid and coherent art style to the in-game world and character design then he's doing it wrong.
"@JinxTheGamer you seem very caught up on this "slut gear" thing though I am not sure what you define it as but I would expect some armor set to offend your sensibilities upon release as they seem to be quite conservative. I'm sure you'll be able to dress your characters in a way you like as well. "
First of all, if you don't have any substantial argument please refrain from personal rants.
Secondly, what is generally called as "slut gear" was and still is cancer ruining not only RPG's (Skyrim) but also MMORPG genre and that's why I don't like it. It doesn't bring any value into the game it only makes the game more shallow.
Back in the day, I was working on retexturing gear for a private server of some Asian MMORPG (i think it was RF Online) and we had the issue of people quitting the game because of armour sets showing too much body and people got back to play the game after we repainted by hand many sets to look like it was 3D modelled. Same technique Blizzard is using for their gear textures.
Since you mentioned WoW now multiple Times i just wanted to show an example of the reigning champion:
And there are more armors like this in WoW
JinxTheGamer said: Just a side note, but it does your point harm to complain about someone's "personal rant" within a thread constructed with the same theme. You haven't exactly posted any statistics or successful polls denoting your assumed majority of players sick of Asian style aesthetics, or any clear signs that Intrepid has plans to do what you claim. An opinionated premise receives an opinionated response.
and for magic armour, you have this
as long as it fits the lore of verra I don't care what it looks like
Your point would be valid if this kind of armour was WoW's main style while it isn't. This set only exists because of lore. Actually, WoW art style is quite opposite of this and many people complained over the years that few slut-ish pieces of armour got into the game. Even when people make transmog contests anyone who comes with slut gear approach is laughed off and called a loser.
If you want to argue that it's ok to have pretentious, posh and glamour gear in the game because "someone likes it" you clearly don't understand the negative effect this kind of style has on a game longevity and quality of the community, not to mention how it affects genre in general. Skyrim modding community is a clear example what happens if you allow people to get what they want in the game. In the blink of the eye, Skyrim becomes a porn game and YT was flooded with videos falling into the category of soft porn or erotic content in general. The image on Skyrim as an RPG game was shredded to pieces.
This set in WoW is part of WoW. So you can't say that the artstyle of WoW is the opposite. Because it is part of the artstyle of WoW. Your argument doesn't even make remotely sense.
And the ONE design from AoC where you see shoulders and some parts of the legs is repulsive and a slut armor, while the nearly naked characters in WoW are just "slut-ish"?
And as many said before me: The armors we have seen so far are far from "pretentious, posh and glamour" and not anywhere near "Asian mmorpg artstyle".
And i agree with @CptBrownBeard: you failed to give any evidence that AoC is going in that direction. Additionally you ignore every normal Armor we posted here from the AoC designs which prove that AoC is not going in this direction.
I've seen a similar style in BnS, Aion and it's even similar to BDO or Bless art style so you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Ironically Bless Online even tho it was a failure MMO had quite interesting gear design with an actual focus on armour looking like armour instead just decoration.
"Using the female mage outfit though is hardly a sturdy platform for arguing that the aesthetics are over the top as it covers practically all of her body and fits her role as a traditional spellcaster."
I wasn't. I was using examples like above to argue that the design pretentious, posh and glamour gear sets and as we can see above what I said are a fact. Mage example was used by me in "slut gear" argument.
There is no such thing as traditional spellcaster because like I said before there are other heavy classes in fantasy realm which are also spellcasters. Just because it's a mage it doesn't mean it needs to run in dress and look like it can die from a fall on a straight road.
"All in all I'm satisfied with their current approach as it is heavily creative and follows their claims of inspiration from DnD and similar worlds."
How copy and pasting stereotypical approaches to class design is creative?
"Just a side note, but it does your point harm to complain about someone's "personal rant" within a thread constructed with the same theme. You haven't exactly posted any statistics or successful polls denoting your assumed majority of players sick of Asian style aesthetics, or any clear signs that Intrepid has plans to do what you claim. An opinionated premise receives an opinionated response."
WoW, ESO, GW2 and few else Western MMO's whiles combined dwarf any Asian MMORPGs we have released in EU and NA. Player base of Asian MMO's on the western market is very small compared to other western MMO's and anyone who actually looked into player statistics would know this so idk what are you talking about.
You literally nitpicked one set from hundreds already pre-existing in-game sets and you want to argue that this is WoW art style? Realy?
"And the ONE design from AoC where you see shoulders and some parts of the legs is repulsive and a slut armor, while the nearly naked characters in WoW are just "slut-ish"?"
You are missing the point Sparky. I'm not arguing that other games don't have slut gear. I'm arguing that AoC has slut gear which is a fact because what they showed us as first in-game armour design is a pretentious costume purely designed to show a lot of body and score some points in all weirdos who like sexual content in games.
"And as many said before me: The armors we have seen so far are far from "pretentious, posh and glamour" and not anywhere near "Asian mmorpg artstyle". "
Asian art style IS pretentious, posh and glamour <facepalm> XD You don't have much experience with graphic design, aren't you?
"And i agree with @CptBrownBeard: you failed to give any evidence that AoC is going in that direction. Additionally you ignore every normal Armor we posted here from the AoC designs which prove that AoC is not going in this direction."
I already did. I didn't ignore anything I've even commented on some of them. Learn to read.
The art style for a game can be a "live or die" problem. IS already did damage by advertising game with mage set which is a clear outcome of someone having a bad taste in IS. We can jump on google and I will find better concept arts among amateur graphic designers xD Even Lazy Peon nodded toward the claim that AoC looks a bit Asian and it's not surprising since it looks a lot like BDO.
But i won't argue with you anymore.
You used GW2 as an example for an western MMO with a good playerbase and said that Bless Online had interesting Armor. Both of these games have a lot of your so called "slut"-armors which are far worse than the Mage armor shown in AoC. And both games have "over the top"-armor.
Therefore i'm assuming that you are just a troll without a real point.
If I were to guess, I'd have to say that the armor was designed to be a bit more revealing in order to distract from the more realistic body proportions that Ashes seems to be adhering to. As you can imagine, realism - when it comes to body proportions - is a bit controversial. The character seems to be thematically confused, likely as a result of the developers trying to keep it appealing to everyone. Conservative haircut, modest features, realistic proportions, and then out of nowhere, armor that is clearly designed for the sake of being somewhat revealing. It doesn't really seem to fit together all that well.
In terms of practicality, mage robes are traditionally less functional than other class' armor. This is almost universal among games, films, novels, etc. If you're against that, it's fine, but it doesn't really relate to Ashes specifically. I understand you want to see a mage in armor, and maybe you will in a spell(stone/shield). But typically, mages aren't front-line fighters, which puts them at lower risk for being targeted by melee attacks. Therefore, mobility is of higher use to them, generally, than armor, and so they wear light armor. This also allows them to dress more towards appearance than defense, as light armor will do little against a sword anyway. Depending on the world, armor can also inhibit gestures needed to cast spells, limit field of view, or be heavy enough to be a distraction to a mage.
Anyway, the "slut gear" isn't so much the issue here, and I think that it distracts from the OP's original concerns with gear as a whole. To that, I say: Different races have different styles. The Eastern MMO/Warframe-looking gear is from one race, whose name I can't recall at the moment. Other races will be styled differently. Pick whichever style you like best, I suppose. If you aren't happy that one style or another exists, feel free to start a race war in-game to exterminate the ingrates who dare offend your eyes. Until then, chill. It's not nearly as big a deal as you're making it out to be. You will be able to chose a style that suits you better. The world is still round. The Devs are still great. That robe is still kinda ugly. We're fine.
I'm hoping that Intrepid will turn around a bit and stop making ultra-clean gear designs which clearly have a hard time to fit into the overall game design. I would like to see more "grounded" designs which look like they have some purpose other than looking good and even Bethesda has proved that you can design armour set for light class and still have some stylized plating here and there as protection for legs and torso.
I definitely will chill and wait until beta tests and if they deliver something worth paying for ill gladly drop some coin on this game.
At no point did I say that spellcasters can't be designed in a different way. I simply said they do not have to be because you can use magic to reinforce armor. Perfect examples of this are spells like Stoneskin, Barkskin, Protect, Shell etc. Casters can also do things like shapeshift to become tanks (see WoW druids). Everything does not have to be done with armor designs. You are the one that seems hung up on that. If it's not plate it doesn't provide any defense idea. I do not have a problem with different armor designs I even went on to explicitly say variety is good.
You think the design is "Full stupid" because you don't like the small portion of armor designs you have seen? You don't really have enough information on the armor designs to really make an informed decision imo but do as you please. People keep posting other armors that fit more of your aesthetic from the game but you just ignore those and keep ranting.
Again, you have only seen a small fraction of the armor designs. I don't see how you can so confidently claim to know the entirety of the art design/direction. Eastern influenced MMOs can do well in West (See FFXIV) what tends to kill them is lack of content (among others things) not armor designs but either way we haven't seen enough of the armor. "People in IS clearly think that this is what we want otherwise they wouldn't promote their game with Asian like gear design." They aren't? They have shown a lot of trailers with various kinds of armor types and they all are not "Asian" gear designs. They market different looking armors in their cash shop as well. The ranger armor in the earlier trailer that people keep posting is an example of a none eastern looking armor.
"The idea of catering to many tastes is a downfall for a game because, in the end, you will get game with doesnt have coherent style and we can already see this problem in some gameplay videos where armour set used by player looks completely apart from the general world design. In fact, many people sated like it doesn't belong in the game. If a game developer can't set solid and coherent art style to the in-game world and character design then he's doing it wrong. "
If done poorly and in a way that doesn't make sense you may have a point there. However, as they are using it as a way to distinguish between races and their differing cultures and aesthetics it makes sense from a lore perspective and is in line with their game design. "Many people" is how many people? Are you sure you're in the majority and not just the loudest to complain about the armor from the Alpha? No offense mate, but I am going to trust the developers and designers that have more combined experience than you have years living to get it right.
"First of all, if you don't have any substantial argument please refrain from personal rants.
Secondly, what is generally called as "slut gear" was and still is cancer ruining not only RPG's (Skyrim) but also MMORPG genre and that's why I don't like it. It doesn't bring any value into the game it only makes the game more shallow.
Back in the day, I was working on retexturing gear for a private server of some Asian MMORPG (i think it was RF Online) and we had the issue of people quitting the game because of armour sets showing too much body and people got back to play the game after we repainted by hand many sets to look like it was 3D modelled. Same technique Blizzard is using for their gear textures."
I have no idea what you're talking about. What I said was not a rant at all nor was there any particular insult thrown at you. Sex sells; it's a fact of life. For every person that doesn't like revealing armor, there is someone that does. What you think is "slut gear" is subjective as well. I, for example, do not think the mage gear from that early trailer was bad. You obviously disagree. That's okay. I simply said there will be gear that you won't like the aesthetic of. You need only not equip your character with that gear. That doesn't mean it shouldn't exist just because you don't like it. I doubt Ashes will have anything that is like Tera or Lineage level revealing as I believe Steven has already come out against that but there may still be some cleavage somewhere. Again, it may not be your cup of tea but it's not going to sink the entire game either.
I'm hoping that Intrepid will turn around a bit and stop making ultra-clean gear designs which clearly have a hard time to fit into the overall game design. I would like to see more "grounded" designs which look like they have some purpose other than looking good and even Bethesda has proved that you can design armour set for light class and still have some stylized plating here and there as protection for legs and torso.
I definitely will chill and wait until beta tests and if they deliver something worth paying for ill gladly drop some coin on this game.
@JinxTheGamer
You clearly have not been paying enough attention to this game. With 64 class combinations and the ability for any class to wield any weapon there is a huge ability to play a "mage" that does armor (Spellsword/Battlemage) and there have been no announcements AFAIK about limiting armor per class anyway.
That being said your idea of grounded doesn't take into account the reality of the game world. You can't say that the presence of magic and unique materials wouldn't influence design. Hell, in our reality look at the outrageous fashion that people wear when simple t-shirts and pants would serve the purpose. Or if you want something that has function beyond looks, then look to bikers and the gear they need to protect themselves. Sure some use more downplayed gear but many go with over the top designs (mohawks on the helmets, or helmets that look like skulls, etc). More pretentious and ostentatious design is a mark of influence, power, and stature in our world so I don't see why that suddenly changes in a high fantasy world.
Also in our world looking back at armors through history certain armors have been less functional than others in favor of design. Abs on spartan armor served no purpose and arguably made it less effective. Helms differed wildly as well from a simple spartan helm to a drastically more ornate helm from a chinese general in 1870 (pictured below). Much like our own real world the "groundedness" of armor is going to vary wildly by the race, faction, country etc that develops it. The materials and technology they have will also influence how simple or intricate their designs are. Add in magic and material unlike what we have on earth and the variety should skyrocket. The main thing is that for a given group they create armor in line with their reality in the game world and that there is armor available in that style that is more simple and more ornate as there would be based on differences in wealth of any world.
The dwarven designs, the archer, the cleric, the necromancer, the paladin previews all show a range of styles beyond Asian. Sure there are some that are more in line with that style but I don't see how you don't see the grounded nature of the other designs that have been shown.
Then why are you arguing with me about the idea of mages wearing something else than dresses/cloth gear? If you are not against it why are you literally posting argument which is designed to prove me wrong when I say that mages could have more armour in their gear design?