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This is gonna be a great game

As long as the critics do not b**ch 24/7 of how their preferences aren’t being met, let’s try and be understanding of all parties imvolved.
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Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited November 2018
    I hope Intrepid sticks to their guns on not allowing Cosmetics from the cash shop to be traded. It is a back door to P2W. 

    In a sense you pay real cash for an item you can then get in game currency for. This should be avoided at all cost. 
  • I do not at all follow why this statement is true.
    ...because if its account restricted then it ultimately looses it's value to a players, other then maybe "bragging rights", which isn't every players incentive...
    Conversely, you should say why being able to trade cosmetics makes it more appealing to you.

    To be clear, I completely disagree with your suggestion. The prevention of cosmetic trading is one of the ways IS is trying to keep their game hard to access/not profitable for farmers, botters, etc.
  • The whole idea behind monthly fee is to get rid of p2w elements like selling cash shop items.
  • It sounds like you miss understand why they are not allowing players to trade cosmetics. It's not to increase their profits by forcing players to buy the cosmetics themselves. It's there to prevent p2w. If they allowed players to trade cosmetics, players could buy a bunch of them, sell them, make a bunch of in-game money, and buy strong gear. Players seem to be very much against this and it's their insistence that they will never allow the in-game selling of cash shop cosmetics that have people excited.

    I'd like to add that in addition to cosmetics in the shop, there are also cosmetics you will be able to earn through in-game means.  
  • I mean we're talking about cosmetics here friends, most players care about them, others not so much, and they procure no "P2W/P2P' advantages - again - cosmetics.  In the end they serve their purpose, and in my opinion, shouldn't that ultimately be subjective to a player's preference?  I the devs talked about respecting rarity which is fantastic, but should players starting at a later date have the opportunity to search out a rare cosmetic item?  So what if someone 3rd party makes a profit on something they invested in and saved?  How would someone find offense to that gameplay?  If someone desires an item from the shop, but doesnt necessarily wasn't to pay money for it, they can trade HRS AND HRS of in-game currency subjectively to that shop items worth. !! Initially I get how this might spook developers, but it simply encourages the Shop Buyers to buy more as opposed to only buying for their account and disincentive the other party from investing their time in a game, which IS WHAT WILL ultimately promote the game and the profit thereof (ie Youtube/twitch these days).  Now you're thinking, "well, wont the other party just be more incentivized to buy their own Shop Items?"  Sure it will, many in-fact.  But there is many who will never be able to obtain these items given whatever personal reason they're not spending money !!  Now again it's ONLY cosmetics so its definitely not going to be on such a large scale as actual usable items would be (thank goodness), but regardless.  It's just a perspective.
  • @McStackerson I totally understand that and take no issue.  I think that's where an unbind cost of such items would tilt that problem, maybe not enough - and to that I would consent.
  • ...If someone desires an item from the shop, but doesnt necessarily wasn't to pay money for it, they can trade HRS AND HRS of in-game currency subjectively to that shop items worth. !!...
    That's exactly the problem. Like @McStackerson said, people would just buy skins, sell for big in game money and buy better gear/items and thus be "paying to win".
  • I mean we're talking about cosmetics here friends, most players care about them, others not so much, and they procure no "P2W/P2P' advantages - again - cosmetics.  In the end they serve their purpose, and in my opinion, shouldn't that ultimately be subjective to a player's preference?  I the devs talked about respecting rarity which is fantastic, but should players starting at a later date have the opportunity to search out a rare cosmetic item?  So what if someone 3rd party makes a profit on something they invested in and saved?  How would someone find offense to that gameplay?  If someone desires an item from the shop, but doesnt necessarily wasn't to pay money for it, they can trade HRS AND HRS of in-game currency subjectively to that shop items worth. !! Initially I get how this might spook developers, but it simply encourages the Shop Buyers to buy more as opposed to only buying for their account and disincentive the other party from investing their time in a game, which IS WHAT WILL ultimately promote the game and the profit thereof (ie Youtube/twitch these days).  Now you're thinking, "well, wont the other party just be more incentivized to buy their own Shop Items?"  Sure it will, many in-fact.  But there is many who will never be able to obtain these items given whatever personal reason they're not spending money !!  Now again it's ONLY cosmetics so its definitely not going to be on such a large scale as actual usable items would be (thank goodness), but regardless.  It's just a perspective.
    I feel you are missing what several of us have wrote. 
  • @Sintu Naw that ain’t it.  I read y’alls posts and actually agree as long as the skins acquired in game are exempt from a no trade policy:). That was my concern.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited November 2018
    @Sintu Naw that ain’t it.  I read y’alls posts and actually agree as long as the skins acquired in game are exempt from a no trade policy:). That was my concern.
    That’s not what you said.
  • Since someone already said that the cash-shop cosmetics are not up for trade for a reason since even the cheapest exclusive cosmetic can get extremely expensive, as for cosmetics acquired in game they are a representation of an achievement, in other words it makes no sense to allow trade for something that everyone can unlock with some actual effort.
  • "So I see from that shiny feather on your helmet that you helped kill Grummash the Ogre King!"

    "Nah, I bought that shizz from a vendor. Someone only wanted 1000 pygmy whale coins for it! Looks good right?"
  • It sounds like you miss understand why they are not allowing players to trade cosmetics. It's not to increase their profits by forcing players to buy the cosmetics themselves. It's there to prevent p2w. If they allowed players to trade cosmetics, players could buy a bunch of them, sell them, make a bunch of in-game money, and buy strong gear. Players seem to be very much against this and it's their insistence that they will never allow the in-game selling of cash shop cosmetics that have people excited.

    I'd like to add that in addition to cosmetics in the shop, there are also cosmetics you will be able to earn through in-game means.  
    Yeah... that work until a point while cash shop items didn't give any advantage...
    but will it last forever? highly unlikely...

    Also you are extremely delusional and dumb, if you think that there won't be gold sellers. If the game will have decent players it is 100% guaranteed that there will be gold sellers, so the only thing that going to change, that while people can still buy ingame money for irl money, the non paying players can't buy cash shop items for ingame money...

    btw a game won't be p2w if you can sell cash shop items in game. It only gives other players the ability to buy it without spending real money.

  • If you give one player the option of buying something from the cash shop with in game currency by trading with someone who used the cash shop, you are allowing players to trade rl cash for in game currency. This has been covered in multiple threads.

    No one here is delusional and dumb because they disagree with you, and no one said anything about the game 'never' being P2W, just that Ashes has generally been against it.

    Not sure what the point is. There would be no reason to get a cosmetic from the cash shop if you don't have cash for it. Cosmetics can be found in the game. Any cosmetic you have access too it is likely most others will have access too.

    Cosmetics aren't created by player's avatars in the game, or by any craft/merchant in the game, so why do they have to have an option to buy with in game currency?

    Also, I would prefer no option to trade items paid for in cash to other players, regardless of the items.
  • @akmaa

    In addition to strongly agreeing with @Azathoth I would also add that the elimination and reduction of gold sellers are different. It will be impossible to eliminate them yes but you can take measures to reduce their effectiveness and numbers. Having a subscription payment per account makes it a higher barrier to entry for example.

    Also, one of the main appeals and promises of this game is to never go P2W. So will this last forever? Well I'd say the success of the game largely depends on it and there are lots of videos where IS talks about why they will never do this. One point that sticks out in my mind is that in their words P2W destroys the reputation of the company, turns public imagine of them sour and leads to only temporary increase in profits as the game slowly dies.

    Now does that mean NEVER? I don't know but I do trust Steven won't be pulling that nonsense as long as it's in his control, otherwise I wouldn't be here supporting the game a year before it comes out.
  • For me, majority of the fun in these games is the social adventures and group challenges.  But another whole aspect and fun is an open
    ig market.  I understand the restriction of rl money items; but my interest would be greatly diminished if it was a highly restricted market as a whole.  Part of the whole farming process involves idea of exchange of reward and a merchant role option.  It’s s whole other incentive to keep playing.
  • akmaa said:
    It sounds like you miss understand why they are not allowing players to trade cosmetics. It's not to increase their profits by forcing players to buy the cosmetics themselves. It's there to prevent p2w. If they allowed players to trade cosmetics, players could buy a bunch of them, sell them, make a bunch of in-game money, and buy strong gear. Players seem to be very much against this and it's their insistence that they will never allow the in-game selling of cash shop cosmetics that have people excited.

    I'd like to add that in addition to cosmetics in the shop, there are also cosmetics you will be able to earn through in-game means.  
    Yeah... that work until a point while cash shop items didn't give any advantage...
    but will it last forever? highly unlikely...

    Also you are extremely delusional and dumb, if you think that there won't be gold sellers. If the game will have decent players it is 100% guaranteed that there will be gold sellers, so the only thing that going to change, that while people can still buy ingame money for irl money, the non paying players can't buy cash shop items for ingame money...

    btw a game won't be p2w if you can sell cash shop items in game. It only gives other players the ability to buy it without spending real money.
    Do you think gold selling is a good thing?  I don’t.  I’m sure most players don’t either, and Intrepid Studios fortunately don’t.  Since the game will require a subscription that should cut down on the gold selling (I’m sure it won’t eliminate it, but it will curb it).  When a gold seller has to pay a monthly fee for an account and has to pay again for a new account each time the old one gets banned, it cuts down on profits big time, which means fewer are willing to risk it.  As you say there will probably be some if the game is popular but there will be fewer and will have to be more subtle to avoid getting banned (since again, if you pay a month for a sub and then are banned you wasted money).

    What you’re proposing is that IS should legitimize gold selling.  Because if a player can spend RL cash on a cosmetic and sell it for in-game money, they have indirectly bought gold. To be fair, in this situation it’s IS who is making the money rather than a gold farmer.  But regardless of who profits in the end, you are enabling people to buy gold for cash, and then they can use that gold to buy better gear and other advantages.  That is by definition pay to win, which IS takes great pains to avoid.

    So no, no trading of cash shop items will ever happen and that’s a very good thing.
  • Anytime I see cash shops in a game the game loses some of it's lustre.

    The cash shop becomes a means unto itself; it will have quotas, profit margins, artists that need to be paid.

    Creativity when you have a deadline to meet surrenders at times to the superficial.  So how long until we get Harajuku Girl costumes, hoodies, seasonal santa and elf outfits.  Basically all of the immersion breaking crap that does not fit into this worlds lore; just so players can feel like a special snowflake for $9.95 and be followed by their perky pug who will share their adventures.

    I would rather have their artists create cultural armor sets spanning both recent and ancient history, dating back thousands of years, based upon game lore and races.  Hide these plans/patterns in ancient tomes; on discoverable carvings or urns; or simply through discovery while crafting and let Player Character craftsmen forge and sell them.  These searches for ancient patterns would be a quest chain and provide a market in and of themselves.  

    There was a reason there was a cultural thread at certain time periods for different armors.  That not every English knight looked different and had to rely upon heraldry.
    Uh oh, novel concept; colors and heraldry.

    As someone mentioned above, I would rather be able to gage someone's explorations or have an understanding of their story and travels than their pocket book.  "Wow, you must have visited Ben the Smith of Harvorshire, he's the only one I know who can make Bandar plate armor."

    Instead, we are going to have level 1 walking around like archangels.  "Nice wings dude pity they are vestigial and just knock over everyone's drinks in the tavern; trouble getting fitted for a jacket with those?"

  • @Pogybait Rember, hundreds of thousands of others will be playing as well, some of us like, not silly, but Holliday exclusive costumes that aren’t completely “serious”.  Not everyone is into deep dramatic role play.  
  • @Pogybait Rember, hundreds of thousands of others will be playing as well, some of us like, not silly, but Holliday exclusive costumes that aren’t completely “serious”.  Not everyone is into deep dramatic role play.  
    Well IS has explicitly said there will be no real-world holiday content in the game. No christmas or halloween stuff sorry. But there will be in-game lore holidays which I think is even cooler.
  • @W3Ar3Titans You should really try BDO, they have costumes you can sell for in game gold, melted to progress and more stuff in shop that lets you progress faster than non paying customers.
    The important aspects u value in ur games are all there for u to experience and test for a year or two, until aoc is released.

    A lot of players are looking for an escape from the asian/korean mmos, including Steven.
  • Azathoth said:
    Not sure what the point is. There would be no reason to get a cosmetic from the cash shop if you don't have cash for it. Cosmetics can be found in the game. Any cosmetic you have access too it is likely most others will have access too.
    That sentence doesn't even make sense, but if you wanted to imply, that you can get cash shop cosmetic with in game methood, then you are wrong. Sure some will be, but it's certain that you won't be available to get most of the viable ones.

    NeuroGuy said:
    Having a subscription payment per account makes it a higher barrier to entry for example.
    Yeah, cause it's so effective barrier in wow, or in any other game having subscription...
    oh...
    wait...

    NeuroGuy said:
    Also, one of the main appeals and promises of this game is to never go P2W. So will this last forever? Well I'd say the success of the game largely depends on it and there are lots of videos where IS talks about why they will never do this. One point that sticks out in my mind is that in their words P2W destroys the reputation of the company, turns public imagine of them sour and leads to only temporary increase in profits as the game slowly dies.
    Literately every company, before every game release promised the same, multiple times. guess the results...
    Also you talking about reputation, when they threw the game to the worst and the most p2w publisher in the world? :D


    Atama said:
    Do you think gold selling is a good thing? 
    Whether it is good or not is irrelevant here, it's not you, or me, but not even Steven who can decide whether there will be gold selling or not.

    If you feel this way, you have the opportunity, to take that few hundred players who think like you, and do your rp in some golshire 2.0, but rp server aren't a ghost town for no reason even in the most popular mmo in the world... designing the whole game for only a very small minority isn't the most wisest thing to do.


    Also BDO is the perfect example of how not to do a mmo. The aoc team can learn much from them, if they take it as a negative example...
  • akmaa said:
    Azathoth said:
    Not sure what the point is. There would be no reason to get a cosmetic from the cash shop if you don't have cash for it. Cosmetics can be found in the game. Any cosmetic you have access too it is likely most others will have access too.
    That sentence doesn't even make sense, but if you wanted to imply, that you can get cash shop cosmetic with in game methood, then you are wrong. Sure some will be, but it's certain that you won't be available to get most of the viable ones.

    Actually @Azathoth sentence makes perfect sense. IS stated that there will be at least as many cosmetics in game as in the cash shop. So you don´t have to use the cash shop to get cosmetics. There will be just different cosmetics. And additionally he is right: if you don´t have cash don´t use the cashshop.

    akmaa said:
    Atama said:
    Do you think gold selling is a good thing? 
    Whether it is good or not is irrelevant here, it's not you, or me, but not even Steven who can decide whether there will be gold selling or not.
    Yeah Steven can decide that. In a LiveStream they already said that they will have tools to monitor the market. It´s pretty obvious if someone trades large amounts of gold with another player and wants nothing in return. 
  • Augentier said:

    akmaa said:
    Atama said:
    Do you think gold selling is a good thing? 
    Whether it is good or not is irrelevant here, it's not you, or me, but not even Steven who can decide whether there will be gold selling or not.
    Yeah Steven can decide that. In a LiveStream they already said that they will have tools to monitor the market. It´s pretty obvious if someone trades large amounts of gold with another player and wants nothing in return. 
    One confirmed vendor that they have been working with since inception to make sure their systems in game track every single thing you do and give them real-time reports. So talk as much smack as you like, but there are going to be a lot of shocked "masterminds" when they get caught with their hand in the RMT cookie jar.
    https://www.panopticonlabs.com/
  • @akmaa
    I agree, designing the whole game for a minority would not be wise, especially the "we want to trade cash shop items in game" crowd.

    Very wise indeed.
  • Hopefully the culture of the players in game will be sufficiently against PTW (whatever form it takes) that those PTW players will be despised and shunned. 

    If we work together as a society to turn-in gold sellers and other cheaters to the GMs, hopefully we can keep the game reasonably clean and healthy. 

    *fingers crossed*

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited November 2018
    Any cash shop item should be player bound and unable to be traded or put into the market place look at Black Desert they had a great economy prior to them opening up the cash shop to allow trading in the market place what happened credit card warriors bought a ton of cash shop stuff sold them on the market and completely inflated everything in the market place thus destroying the entire economy and making anything worth a crap un affordable unless you spent real money. 
  • TauTau said:

    Hopefully the culture of the players in game will be sufficiently against PTW (whatever form it takes) that those PTW players will be despised and shunned. 

    If we work together as a society to turn-in gold sellers and other cheaters to the GMs, hopefully we can keep the game reasonably clean and healthy. 

    *fingers crossed*

    There’s a difference between having gold sellers and having a gold seller problem.

    WoW has gold sellers but you’re not getting spammed by them every time you enter a city.  Other MMOs (like Neverwinter) I have to turn public channels off because that’s all you read.

    Even WoW let’s you play for free to a limited extent.  I don’t think that AoC has that option, at least at launch.  So I expect to see even less than the little I see in WoW.
  • @Atama It was mentioned one time that they were thinking about having a server where people could try the game out for free until level 20 or something along those lines. They would NOT be able to transfer progress to the paid servers and the "try before you sub" server would not be connected to the rest in any way. They did not confirm it as a done deal, just an option they might use.
  • @Atama It was mentioned one time that they were thinking about having a server where people could try the game out for free until level 20 or something along those lines. They would NOT be able to transfer progress to the paid servers and the "try before you sub" server would not be connected to the rest in any way. They did not confirm it as a done deal, just an option they might use.
    Good info, thanks.  That's interesting and would be useless for gold farmers, but a good "try before you buy" for real players.
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