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Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Why so restrictive Artisan system?
Ferryman
Member
We do not know much about upcoming Artisan system, but most parts what devs have planned sounds quite good. Dividing artisan classes to three main category (gathering, processing, crafting) makes sense and it is actually quite standard system. Devs have also promised somehow complex system with recipes and stuff, and I personally hope it will focus more on quality than quantity.
I am still personally concerned behalf myself and others who loves lifeskills and professions in MMORPGs. Devs have stated, that a player can only master one artisan path, not the main category, but one individual branch like mining for example. That is a huge downside to those MMORPG players who focus on lifeskills and want to use a lot of time doing different kind of stuff related to professions. Current planned system will exclude a lot of artisan content from players.
I have seen the argument, that this restriction goals to interdependence between players. I guess devs have not thought, that this kind of restrction is not actually needed. If we think of sandbox games for example. Those usually have a total free progression system and you can focus on everything you want to without the game needs to restrict you. And guess what? The player-driven economy still works great. IS fears that people will be totally self-sufficient. That fear is vain. Of course some people tries to be, but even they can not get every ingredients they want by themself. BUT, most people will still focus on just one or few things and they will interact and trade with each other. So there is no need for so restrictive actions.
I am not asking, that we should have totally free choise to master all paths, but some kind of middle-road solution here would be more than welcome. That would show, that you to care more about those players who loves to do different kind of lifeskills and not just narrow their main content to something so small. Many players likes to gather and craft from example, so why to take that possibility away from them?
I guess this system can be go around with alts (at least a little bit), but why to force people to do so? Is there some kind of hidden agenda behind this? Lastly, I hope you still reconsider how you are going to build the artisan system, and you really think it also from player point of view. Thank you.
I am still personally concerned behalf myself and others who loves lifeskills and professions in MMORPGs. Devs have stated, that a player can only master one artisan path, not the main category, but one individual branch like mining for example. That is a huge downside to those MMORPG players who focus on lifeskills and want to use a lot of time doing different kind of stuff related to professions. Current planned system will exclude a lot of artisan content from players.
I have seen the argument, that this restriction goals to interdependence between players. I guess devs have not thought, that this kind of restrction is not actually needed. If we think of sandbox games for example. Those usually have a total free progression system and you can focus on everything you want to without the game needs to restrict you. And guess what? The player-driven economy still works great. IS fears that people will be totally self-sufficient. That fear is vain. Of course some people tries to be, but even they can not get every ingredients they want by themself. BUT, most people will still focus on just one or few things and they will interact and trade with each other. So there is no need for so restrictive actions.
I am not asking, that we should have totally free choise to master all paths, but some kind of middle-road solution here would be more than welcome. That would show, that you to care more about those players who loves to do different kind of lifeskills and not just narrow their main content to something so small. Many players likes to gather and craft from example, so why to take that possibility away from them?
I guess this system can be go around with alts (at least a little bit), but why to force people to do so? Is there some kind of hidden agenda behind this? Lastly, I hope you still reconsider how you are going to build the artisan system, and you really think it also from player point of view. Thank you.
Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
0
Comments
The way I u nderstood it is that in the process of mastering one profession you pick up basic skills of other professions.
To illustrate what I mean, when you learn your way to gathering plants, you learn about the ecosystem, you learn about trees and wood, you learn about the wildlife.
You will be a master plant expert and can get the best of the best from plants, but you also know how to skin animals and fell trees. You might not make the best plywood on the server, but it will be useable.
That is my understanding through examples given over the years.
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
Some games when you can do and be everything it kills the community a little. People are no longer communicating to each other to work together when you can simply do everything yourself.
Guild: The Empire
Rank: Lord General
Role: Officer
Link: https://discord.gg/BUDD8E
Going pay to play helps some. As long as they dont do things like wow where you can spend in game gold for membership.
Its just a level 1 security door but normally makes a difference. Im the same though about bots. It kills game. Look at Runescape. It used to be a major player community game. Then the bots came in and almost no one talks anymore.
Guild: The Empire
Rank: Lord General
Role: Officer
Link: https://discord.gg/BUDD8E
Personally I see it this way, either you dedicate yourself to master 1 single craft or you can become good at a few but master none, the more classes you learn the bigger the limit on item quality you can create. Something like this:
1 Crafting class - Grandmaster level
2 Crafting classes - Master x1 and Advanced on others. No grandmaster.
People are still communicating and trading goods with each other even they have access to several artisan paths. The system as whole just needs to be done way, that progression is not a faceroll and it needs some effort.
I do not want anything like WoW has (which btw has at least that 2 path options), I would like to see more freedom like in sandbox games. If AoC categorizes itself as a sandpark or a themebox, that does not show on artisan system like this.
Current plans are great news for players to whom lifeskills are more like sideactivity. But those who really wants to focus on different lifeskills, this is really bad news.
Not necessarily. Depending on the depth and bredth of each path you very well could be spending a long time mastering sword smithing or enchanting. We don't know all the variables that will go into the outcome of a single item, so that specialization isn't necessarily as limiting as you might think.
You can make a name of yourself without this restriction.
Specialization has nothing to do with this. Even I would focus on weaponsmithing (inclueding all melee weapons), thats way too narrow system. I still want to gather and process those resources what I need for crafting (at least some of those).
Both harvesting and processing are supposed to have similar depth to the crafting itself so if you could do most of the gathering and processing yourself that would defeat the purpose of the system.
If everyone can do everything most will just max the professions they need then do everything themselves. I can agree with the gathering part though, but I see why they did it the way they did. Now you're forced to find a miner to supply you with the stuff, and it encourages trade and communication. If they let you be a miner you'd just go out and mine it yourself, prospect it, then craft the item, it just makes the community much smaller. It also makes a bit more sense that you can only master one.
On the other hand, a master Smith that charges way to much might stop getting goods imported and lose a supply chain.
I hope this works quite well and does encourage community as has been suggested.
No one gives a s**t about low level stuff tbh. I hope people won't bring that up anymore. ;-)
Like I have said before, even some people are focusing more on artisans paths, that does not stop people to trade with each other. Most players are still choosing none, one or few paths, so people still needs to rely on each other. Those who have played sandbox games with player-driven economies knows this is true. But it seams we have here more themepark people who have not experienced that by themselfs.
Omg.. Do you really think that all people will automatically be self-sufficient if they have that chance? No they won't. Some will be, those who focus mainly on lifeskills. People value they playtime differently and we will have players who uses 0% to any artisans skills and those who uses 100%. Then we have every possible variations between those extremes. People will still trade and economy will be fine. It works in other games, why it would not work in Ashes?
Risk versus reward..
[quote="azathoth;c-189466"On the other hand, a master Smith that charges way to much might stop getting goods imported and lose a supply chain.[/quote]
Okay this supply chain problem is another thing and it might become a huge issue with current system. Gathering is always solid income or at least you can make profit with it everytime. Processing and crafting are more risky business, because you need to buy the resources and make your product from those. I have seen how gathered resources can be more valueable than what you can get after processing those or using those processed materials to craft an item. In WoW for example this does not matter so much, because there is no player-driven economy, but in Albion Online this was a problem. In Albion you still had the chance to get some resources by yourself and make some profit with crafted goods, but I can see how this can come issue in AoC where you just need to stop and maybe even drop your artisan skill. I am very courious to see how devs manages to balance this.
I am speechless.. No, WoW does not have player-driven economy. In player driven economy all or most of the items are player crafted. So either you make those by yourself or you buy those from other players.
In most themepark games you get everything from the world, mobs, dungeons, raids.. and you do not need to buy anything from marketplace/auctionhouse. You can buy, but you do not have to. That is why in WoW people does not need to rely on each other.
For an economy to be driven by the players, the players should be able to dictate the price of items they want to sell, which will overall determine the value of other items when combined with each other. Wow has this
*Edit*
Now I don't know if there is a set definition of what player run economy is, but if we go off the word it should be players being able to determine the value of items through ingame currency, right?
No one have said, that everyone should have chance to do everything, at least somehow less restrictive system would be nice.
The restriction of the ability to utilize a larger variety of professions on one character is what's going to make each "master" of each profession be useful in certain scenarios. If you take away the ability for people to master and have being masters of professions special, the usefulness of the professions will no longer be as large
Yes, this is one part of player-driven economy.
But how is wows economy NOT playerdriven?
Master anything you like, but you need to choose just how much you specialize. You can diversity as well, you just need to split up the points you gain.
To me that's like asking for the ability to master all classes from one char (Essentially like FFXIV ) which isn't bad but doesn't promote choice or being unique.