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Griefing should not be a thing in this game

tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited April 2019 in General Discussion
It is really lame when you kill a certain community member over and over for the shitty actions that they have taken in the past, and then they are able to go to a customer support ticket and complain about you griefing them. Then you get timed out.

Instead, the complainer should have game mechanics to ignore the offending party, and the corruption system should be sufficient punishment for the griefer. No GM moderation needed.

Like if you agree. Comment if you don’t, and “I’ll put a jihad on you too.”

Virtue is the only good.
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Comments

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I liked and commented. what does that mean :flushed:
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    That you are quite agreeable and contrarian at the same time!

    Virtue is the only good.
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    It's the ones that just grief over and over for no reason, but just have to wait until the corruption system gets tested and see how things shake out.

    I would honestly hope that the corruption system mitigates the need for GM's to police this sort of stuff. You want to kill someone over and over for some slight against you and you suffer corruption for it then no I don't think GM's should really touch it.
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    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • DevorandomDevorandom Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    What tools to ignore would there even be?
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  • tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    devorandom wrote: »
    What tools to ignore would there even be?

    Ignore in chat and voip. No need for you to listen to someone verbally abusing you.

    And ignore tool should not have a limit of five like our dear forums do, and I don’t want to see the blocked message like you do in discord.


    Virtue is the only good.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I disagree partially. I agree in the sense that griefing is crap and those who do it suck. I agree that the corruption system should be able to curb it and work as an automated system to punish those who perform certain kinds of griefing. But I disagree that it will be enough.

    To start with, it’s going to happen if you have open world PvP. It just will. The system is designed to discourage that behavior but not to prevent it. So it’ll happen, and as long as it happens it’ll frustrate some people and likely drive them away. There’s a reason why world PvP games are always a niche market. But I think everyone expects that.

    But let’s say that somehow the system prevents PvP griefing or discourages it enough that it’s very rare, rare enough that most players never experience it. (That won’t happen but let’s pretend.) There are many ways to grief. Somebody is going to find a way to park an indestructible wagon on a rare resource to prevent everyone from harvesting it. Someone will figure out a way to manipulate node development to prevent it from advancing. There will be exploits, scams, and other ways that people will discover to be an asshat. A creep is going to find a way to be a creep. So we’ll never have a system that lets us avoid contacting GMs about harassment and other kinds of griefing.
     
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  • tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    If you did not want me to park my Tauren War Mammoth over the mailbox, you should not have given me a Tauren War Mammoth.

    Virtue is the only good.
  • tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2019
    First, let’s distinguish that we are talking about three different things.
    1. Player killing - the original post
    2. Player inconveniencing - blocking a resource, etc
    3. Harassment

    I do not think the GM’s should be involved in player inconveniencing. If it was an unintended system, then the development team needs to have a quick update process to rectify the game system. If the system is in the game, the player should be able to use and abuse it. Otherwise, you are left with a situation where you are punishing the more creative player because he thought of something that you did not.

    In the case of harassment, I posit that it should be impossible to be harassed purely in game. Harassment is aggressive pressure or intimidation ( which by the way is what this game is built upon...)

    You should have enough control over your own experience through ignore and other social interaction functions that a person cannot interact with you if you choose not to let them.

    For those you must interact with, such as other guild leaders, you need to have a big enough backbone to be able to defend yourself, and a thick enough flesh to not be offended. But that’s a comment on all of society, not just gamers. #gamersRiseUp

    Virtue is the only good.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    "Player inconveniencing" also called, camping a resource spot and killing everyone who is not from your guild? :D

    Everyone who does that should get ganged up on by the other guilds, we need a guild police !
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  • DevorandomDevorandom Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    That could be so easily abused. If I just put everyone on the enemy side of a siege on the do not interact list then I wouldn't have to fight them.
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  • tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Do not interact does not mean do not PVP. Fighting and social are totally different in my opinion.

    Virtue is the only good.
  • dphantomtvdphantomtv Member, Alpha One
    If you can be an asshole on the internet, what’s the point xD
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    He's a phantom | twitch.tv/dphantomtv
  • DevorandomDevorandom Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Then the traditional ignore system should be fine.
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  • ezenkrul87ezenkrul87 Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I just think the normal ignore system is fine.
    Block/Ignore this applies to chat and voice

    As for killing over and over again...make friends and then there's the corruption system. There should be not GM intervention for getting killed by another player, even if its over and over again.

    Of course if its not intended, it should get fixed, but allow the players to solve problems that exist.

    *Grow a backbone*
    Ezenkrul - Phoenix Initiative
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2019
    Tug already has me on KOS.

    I'm too opinionated and stubborn to really have the luxury of avoiding it. Might as well embrace it
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  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    If you don't want to get griefed in a PvP based game, don't play PvP based games.

    Bilbo said it best:

    It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door.

    The corruption system is all we need. If you did something and you get ganked, you get ganked.
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    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Often times it is the community that decides what is considered acceptable, not the developers.
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  • Lets be honest and address the elephant in the room. The ashes of creation community is somewhat toxic.
    You can block them they will make an alt corruption system could have work around. Example use a mob to get the last hit on a player so you don't gain corruption iv seen it on other games. At the end of the day griefers will grief and most game companies don't address it because that less money at the end of the day. Telling people to not play a game just proves how asinine you are. cant really say what options the game will offer to lessen the griefing lessen being the key word there will always be griefing on some level.
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  • ViymirViymir Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    If you are pk'd by someone over and over and you have the choice to move away and go somewhere else then a GM should not need to be involved. The corruption system "should" ensure the attacker can only keep this up for a short amount of time and if you dont want to get killed over and over get good or join a decent guild.
  • JubilumJubilum Member, Pioneer, Kickstarter
    As long as open world pvp is a thing griefers/PK'ers (douches) will exist and thrive. The ONLY way to avoid it is to not allow open world pvp (period).
  • I always thought it was part of the fun. Yes, trying to farm something and someone pking sucks. But if you keep going, you know what's going to happen.
    Either call your guild, friends, or just go elsewhere.
    AoC is based on conflict, if there's no PK in open world, it will be harder to get conflict and drama. Drama is what fuels wars, node changes!!!
  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter
    I'm all for pk and corruption

    Let me put it this way, I am all for options for all play styles
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    tugowar wrote: »
    For those you must interact with, such as other guild leaders, you need to have a big enough backbone to be able to defend yourself, and a thick enough flesh to not be offended. But that’s a comment on all of society, not just gamers. #gamersRiseUp

    That is a pretty toxic attitude to have. It’s a game, not a real life war. Nobody should be forced to put up with flagrant a-holes or “grow a backbone” and “thick enough flesh not to be offended”. Honestly, that’s the kind of attitude that’s likely to get you banned, and quickly. I hope I’m either seriously misunderstanding you, or you’re joking.
     
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  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Atama wrote: »
    tugowar wrote: »
    For those you must interact with, such as other guild leaders, you need to have a big enough backbone to be able to defend yourself, and a thick enough flesh to not be offended. But that’s a comment on all of society, not just gamers. #gamersRiseUp

    That is a pretty toxic attitude to have. It’s a game, not a real life war. Nobody should be forced to put up with flagrant a-holes or “grow a backbone” and “thick enough flesh not to be offended”. Honestly, that’s the kind of attitude that’s likely to get you banned, and quickly. I hope I’m either seriously misunderstanding you, or you’re joking.

    I think what he means is that toxic people should ruin it for your guild so you need strong leadership that's not going to sweat the small stuff.
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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Karthos wrote: »
    Atama wrote: »
    tugowar wrote: »
    For those you must interact with, such as other guild leaders, you need to have a big enough backbone to be able to defend yourself, and a thick enough flesh to not be offended. But that’s a comment on all of society, not just gamers. #gamersRiseUp

    That is a pretty toxic attitude to have. It’s a game, not a real life war. Nobody should be forced to put up with flagrant a-holes or “grow a backbone” and “thick enough flesh not to be offended”. Honestly, that’s the kind of attitude that’s likely to get you banned, and quickly. I hope I’m either seriously misunderstanding you, or you’re joking.

    I think what he means is that toxic people should ruin it for your guild so you need strong leadership that's not going to sweat the small stuff.

    Coupled with the suggestion that it’s impossible to be harassed in a game(?!) I have my doubts here. I’m hoping he can clarify.
     
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  • tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Atama wrote: »
    tugowar wrote: »
    For those you must interact with, such as other guild leaders, you need to have a big enough backbone to be able to defend yourself, and a thick enough flesh to not be offended. But that’s a comment on all of society, not just gamers. #gamersRiseUp

    That is a pretty toxic attitude to have. It’s a game, not a real life war. Nobody should be forced to put up with flagrant a-holes or “grow a backbone” and “thick enough flesh not to be offended”. Honestly, that’s the kind of attitude that’s likely to get you banned, and quickly. I hope I’m either seriously misunderstanding you, or you’re joking.

    Let me clarify. I honestly want to know if you think it is a toxic attitude.

    If you suck, I’m going to tell you, in a nonsugarcoated manner that may be very direct and brutal. Your ability to receive that information ( thickness of skin ) and then your ability to process and respond ( back bone ) is something that you entirely control.



    Virtue is the only good.
  • tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2019
    Coupled with the suggestion that it’s impossible to be harassed in a game(?!) I have my doubts here. I’m hoping he can clarify.

    I premised that on the game giving you social control, and in the context of in the game only.

    But also, don’t miss the very fine point that I made about the fact that this game’s objective is harassing other players.

    Virtue is the only good.
  • TeylouneTeyloune Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2019
    Necronix wrote: »
    Lets be honest and address the elephant in the room. The ashes of creation community is somewhat toxic.
    You can block them they will make an alt corruption system could have work around. Example use a mob to get the last hit on a player so you don't gain corruption iv seen it on other games. At the end of the day griefers will grief and most game companies don't address it because that less money at the end of the day. Telling people to not play a game just proves how asinine you are. cant really say what options the game will offer to lessen the griefing lessen being the key word there will always be griefing on some level.

    Yes, this.
    If someone uses a Mob to kill another Player they should also get punished for it, because they were involved in the action.
    Another problem here would be, that if you would put a bounty on someones head trying to get rid of them, they would probably just ask a friend to claim it and split the reward.
    This is not okay.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    tugowar wrote: »
    Let me clarify. I honestly want to know if you think it is a toxic attitude.

    If you suck, I’m going to tell you, in a nonsugarcoated manner that may be very direct and brutal. Your ability to receive that information ( thickness of skin ) and then your ability to process and respond ( back bone ) is something that you entirely control.
    Okay, that’s understandable. Nobody should have to walk on eggshells to interact with people. And being blunt and honest is commendable. I was in a guild for years that had the same people going from one game to another, more than a half dozen, and we got blunt and rude but we were close, like family at times. The guild broke up a long time ago but I still keep in touch with a few people outside of gaming. You don’t have relationships like that if you can’t be yourself.

    I thought you might be talking about things like homophobic talk, racial slurs, misogyny. Hitting on people and stalking them. The messed up stuff that is too common on the internet, especially in MMOs. Nobody should have to deal with anything like that and “thick skin” isn’t the answer. But it looks like you’re not talking about that.

    Little anecdote about me from the old forum... There was one poster who I disagreed with who just went off the rails. They started insulting my mom, slinging the nastiest profanity you could think of. The escalation was pretty unexpected and I decided to just be polite in response which oddly seemed to make them more angry. Eventually Stephen himself banned the poster (who I didn’t even report, by the way, I actually thought it was funny at the time). That was apparently the first time someone was banned from this forum, at least that’s what I was told. So that crazy stuff doesn’t even wait for the game before it starts!
    tugowar wrote: »
    I premised that on the game giving you social control, and in the context of in the game only.

    But also, don’t miss the very fine point that I made about the fact that this game’s objective is harassing other players.
    I don’t consider playing the game as it’s meant to be played “harassment”. It’s PvP so if some guy with an axe wants to cut off my head to take the granite I’m carrying or whatever, that’s how the game was designed. That’s not harassment. If that same guy starts spreading lies about me, or following me to KS everything I try to kill (which happened to me in WoW once for real, from a much higher-level player, ugh) or anything like that which is just griefing behavior outside of normal gameplay, that is legitimate in-game harassment. The system will not be sufficient to handle that on its own.

    You don’t have social control over others’ behavior. Harassment is a real thing, it’s not good, and a game like this is especially prone to attracting people who engage in such behavior.

    Think of it like creeps in a strip club... Ogling women is not only acceptable there, but it’s the whole point. That doesn’t mean that they have free reign to make any and all comments to the women, to engage in unwanted touching, to stalk them, etc. And yet a place like that attracts the sort because of what is permitted. Hence, most places like that employ vigilant bouncers.

    A game like this which allows for competitive and violent behavior (everywhere) between players, guilds, nodes, and so on, it will attract the kind of people that enjoy ruining the fun of others. The kind of people that don’t like the restrictions of a full PvE game, not just because they like the challenge of fighting a real thinking opponent but because they don’t want to get along with people. It won’t be the majority of players, it’ll probably be a very small minority, but you’ll have more than what you’d find in most MMOs. So like a strip club you’re going to need bouncers.

    I’m glad we have the corruption system. It should keep a lot of things in check and mitigate problems. It’s why the world PvP doesn’t worry me. But unfortunately it’s not going to eliminate the need for GMs to moderate behavior, far from it.
     
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  • tugowartugowar Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    My title is a bit of click bait. In the specific case of PK, I hope we do not have GM intervention. I recognize in other situations GM involvement is probably inevitable.

    Virtue is the only good.
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