Best Idea ever. DOUBLE SHIELDS.

consultantconsultant Member
edited June 14 in General Discussion
I think Steve will come around to double shields hopefully after this post is done. :)

First of all the idea of having large shields equipped all the time might seem kind of strang at first.
But let say two large sheilds would be only be equipped when blocking a huge attack from a boss or pulled to much.

Now a large shield and small shield likea small buckler could be used. Just small shield would take the place of a hammer or mace so would act like a main hand weapon.

So there could also equip two small shields (main hand and offhand weapons) No different than any other blunt weapon.
Two abilities that could be in game would be.

Sheild Barrage That is when a tank with two small shields started punching and bashing a target for let say 3 seconds for like 7 hits.

Shield Storm (no reference to WoWs ability bladestorm of course) :) But that would be when a tank starts going in a circle and bashes every one in range with his shield.

Sheild Throw (not really double shields just animation) This is were you have a shield in off hand weapon in main hand.
and you have a shield slung to your back that is circular in design that would be thrown. Could actaully be a shield of light for pallies that get thrown that appears on the toons back ready for the toon to reach back and throw it.

So a toon could have a shield in both hands plus a shield on their back back. Yes that is right you heard it here first.......

TRIPLE SHIELDS!!!!!!!. The toon would just temporily put the main weapon which could be a small sheild on his back during the time it takes for the shield to hit all it targtets and come back.

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Comments

  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Braver of Worlds
    Steven has already stated that dual-wielding shields will not be possible
  • Well maybe that is because no one has ever presented the idea properly.
  • ViymirViymir Member, Braver of Worlds
    I prefer the idea of dual wielding Sandals I think that's something @Steven Sharif would sanction :smiley:
  • ShoklenShoklen Member
    I believe Baby-Bear-Backpacks are still in though? :smiley:
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    consultant wrote: »
    Well maybe that is because no one has ever presented the idea properly.

    And you think YOU are that person?!
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  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Leader of Men
    Everyone always thinks they will run around looking like this.
    the-incredible-hulk-marvels-10th-still_624x355x1.jpg

    When really they look like this.
    Said+the+casual+_46ca3dcc8581fa63c9733d1b4153cf2e.png

    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • noemadnoemad Member
    Tika Waylan is that you? B)

    Although I will say that I liked the dual small shield\fist weapon combo Captain America used in Infinity War. I've always liked claw\cestus type weapons for some monk characters I've played in other games. Having them have a shield component covering the forearms so they could block weapons and get inside to get in close enough to use their own weapons seems like a no-brainer to me.
  • AzryilAzryil Member, Leader of Men
    consultant wrote: »
    Well maybe that is because no one has ever presented the idea properly.

    Or maybe it's because it's a terrible idea?
    k2U15J3.png
  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    I think that a barehanded aproach would be fairer to the vict... enemy, i meant enemy.
    KkvMmA5.png
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    edited June 15
    I'm not going to lie, it would be pretty cool to be able to have shields like this

    https://deskgram.net/explore/tags/adamantinearmor


    To block a very deadly attack. But.... Does that warrant having the option to dual weild shields all the time. Regardless there are a few gameplay issues with this that I'm too tired to write out now but I'll come to to tomorrow.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    @wanderingmist
    I dont know, I somehow still like the normal shield and sword combo more:

    d9dnfom-860bf565-a276-4a68-85d8-3b96d57e6ec1.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzQ4ODA4NTdmLTQxYTctNDkxMy1hNWVjLTE4MTY2NjkyZmZkNVwvZDlkbmZvbS04NjBiZjU2NS1hMjc2LTRhNjgtODVkOC0zYjk2ZDU3ZTZlYzEucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0._k5-2LYk02hm1tC5c9yjJYFy0Eb2L_ysu2VEKksinQE
    400px-Magic_Shield_1.jpg

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  • insomniainsomnia Member
    There is a giant in the PnP Palladium that does duel-wield shields. He had some razor blades strapped to its sides and it has a spike in the middle. I can't find a picture though. Think he used bashing and swiping attacks with it. I can't seem to find a way to uploade a picture, or i could have taken 1
  • I'm not going to lie, it would be pretty cool to be able to have shields like this

    https://deskgram.net/explore/tags/adamantinearmor

    To block a very deadly attack. But.... Does that warrant having the option to dual weild shields all the time. Regardless there are a few gameplay issues with this that I'm too tired to write out now but I'll come to to tomorrow.

    They look more like wings ngl. Maybe they could do that... 🤔
    Forgive and you will free yourself. Peace be with all of you.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    insomnia wrote: »
    There is a giant in the PnP Palladium that does duel-wield shields. He had some razor blades strapped to its sides and it has a spike in the middle. I can't find a picture though. Think he used bashing and swiping attacks with it. I can't seem to find a way to uploade a picture, or i could have taken 1

    I use an account on imgur to upload specific pictures. Creat an account for free, drag the picture into your galery, wait a few seconds, then take the picture link from imgur. Works like a charm. ;)
    KkvMmA5.png
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    Damokles wrote: »
    insomnia wrote: »
    There is a giant in the PnP Palladium that does duel-wield shields. He had some razor blades strapped to its sides and it has a spike in the middle. I can't find a picture though. Think he used bashing and swiping attacks with it. I can't seem to find a way to uploade a picture, or i could have taken 1

    I use an account on imgur to upload specific pictures. Creat an account for free, drag the picture into your galery, wait a few seconds, then take the picture link from imgur. Works like a charm. ;)

    But that requires alot of work :p don't want to make a profile for 1 picture
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    So, I've had some time to think about this and get my concerns in order. Whenever you put an option like this into the game there needs to be a gameplay reason. Aesthetics differences are great and all but if equipping a different weapon set doesn't change some aspect of the gameplay then there is no point. This is something that Monster Hunter World did really well, because in that game every weapon set felt unique.

    So, in order for dual shields to have a purpose it needs to feel different to a standard sword and shield combo. Going back to the OP, if you equipped a small shield and a large shield, with the small shield acting like a blunt weapon such as a mace, my question is: Why not just use a mace? Take visuals out of the equation for a minute and there is no different between a mace and shield and dual shields.

    The same applies to the 2 abilities listed in the OP. Why are those skills limited to dual shields? Can't you do the same thing with a sword and shield combo? If we wanted to differentiate between dual shields and sword and shield, there needs to be a trade-off. The obvious thing to do would be that when you have dual shields equipped you sacrifice damage output for higher defense. That sounds good in theory but is very hard to balance, given that we have been told that you won't be able to switch weapons while taking or dealing damage.

    This gameplay decision severely limits the usefulness of switching weapons in combat, especially for a tank who is likely to be getting hit all the time. On top of this, shields in APOC can actively block physical projectiles. In order for dual shields to be viable you need them to be able to do more than that. Block spells maybe? Or reflect projectiles back? These are all things that need to be balanced around, and again it goes back to the issue of not being able to swap weapons easily in combat.

    One last thing to consider from a PvE perspective is threat generation. Right now we don't know the specifics of threat management in Ashes. For example, is threat going to be directly tied to damage dealt as it is in games like FFXIV and TERA? Or is threat going to be a separate metric entirely like it is in Classic WoW or ESO? If threat is tied directly to damage dealt then reducing a tank's damage output will also reduce the amount of threat they generate, which can cause huge problems and make dual shields not worth using.

    As you can see, there is a lot to consider here besides "I want to dual wield shields because it looks cool".
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    This is one of those things that sounds cool in theory but in practicality, people will likely just see as a gimmick.

    Aq0KG2f.png
  • Well dark souls pulled it off. If you think you can have a better take on this idea well go ahead give it a try let me see your creative mind.

    Wanted to add that there could be pikes sticking out of the shields and have could have sharpened edges for peircing and slashing damage.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    consultant wrote: »
    Well dark souls pulled it off. If you think you can have a better take on this idea well go ahead give it a try let me see your creative mind.

    Wanted to add that there could be pikes sticking out of the shields and have could have sharpened edges for peircing and slashing damage.

    You mean this?



    Colour me NOT impressed. It's literally just as you said in the OP, using one of the shields are a normal melee weapon. With that being the case, why not just use a sword or a mace? What benefit does the extra shield give you?

    Also I never said I had a better take on it for Ashes, especially as we have very little information on how the combat will work in the mmorpg.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    neomir wrote: »
    I prefer the idea of dual wielding Sandals I think that's something @Steven Sharif would sanction :smiley:

    Otherwise you're hopping around on one sandal.
    U752vHP.png
  • ryuujiryuuji Member, Founder, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 20
    consultant wrote: »
    Well dark souls pulled it off. If you think you can have a better take on this idea well go ahead give it a try let me see your creative mind.

    Wanted to add that there could be pikes sticking out of the shields and have could have sharpened edges for peircing and slashing damage.

    Backstabbing enemys from stealth👍
  • Assumming using a mace is different than using a sword and axe different than using sword and mace there for there using the the shield instead of mace should have a different in game impact.......

    There is always the Double Shield Throw that is when you throw both sheilds. So you could throw both shields at a single target chance for decapitation for large and smaller humanoids as they crisscross at the point of impact.

    Plus one shield could be thrown in one direction and another to pull mobs.
    Kinds of reminds me of Tron.

    Now with both shields in the air and having one strapped to your back. You could conceivable throw a throw a third shield. Triple Shield Throw.

    So on the way back you would catch the bigger shield then the smaller shield and putting that one on your back and then catching the third shield.

    As far as changing weapons during combat it would be very easy and very inexpensive to make the one line of code that would enable tanks to switch shields in combat for the sake of class animations not really a big deal.

    Plus if you a had two sheilds on your back you could have a quadriiple shield throw especially if you make the flight time a litlle longer.

    Now the shield on your back could be magical and part of a special in game tanking abilty. Which leads me to me next point The Sheild Swarm Ultimate ability.

    But have to go for now.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    The fact the it "worked" in Dark Souls is like saying "oh I put garlic in my chicken dish and it tasted great, therefore if I put garlic in this chocolate cake, it will be just as good!".
    Aq0KG2f.png
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    edited June 27
    insomnia wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    insomnia wrote: »
    There is a giant in the PnP Palladium that does duel-wield shields. He had some razor blades strapped to its sides and it has a spike in the middle. I can't find a picture though. Think he used bashing and swiping attacks with it. I can't seem to find a way to uploade a picture, or i could have taken 1

    I use an account on imgur to upload specific pictures. Creat an account for free, drag the picture into your galery, wait a few seconds, then take the picture link from imgur. Works like a charm. ;)

    But that requires alot of work :p don't want to make a profile for 1 picture

    Thx for the help, i did it.
    But because my phone is a piece of shit, i can't locate the emage on it, so i can't uploade it. I tried to send it to my e-mail, but it gets blurry and you can't read what it says
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    A little information. The char, is of a race called Gigantes, which is a mutated race of giants. It is from a PnP RPG called Palladium

    [img][/img]NNh0tFH.jpg
    [img][/img]4QCNogK.jpg


  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    Thanks @insomnia, I was actually looking for that and could not find it xD
    KkvMmA5.png
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    Damokles wrote: »
    Thanks @insomnia, I was actually looking for that and could not find it xD

    Neither could I
  • Well was not able to make the sheild swarm ability work out but ....

    If the shields are round like the picture provided the there could be mini crossbows inbedded in the underside of the shields that shoot bolts. Think this would be cool for a Tank Ranger.

    Now if shields had blades just like the image provided by insomnia and were attached to a chain then sheild could be throw just like in on old video game called Rygar.
    When it reached the target it would spin in place for a bit and do damage with serated blades. Blades could actually come out right after it was thrown and retract on the way back. Kind of like a yo-yo

    Using the same game emchanics a shield could be thrown just in a nick of time to freindly target to block incoming attack.

  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    @consultant I'm all for giving ranged attacks to melee tanks, particularly if you are fighting in an open area where you can't easily funnel the enemies into melee range of the tank. It seems that Intrepid are already thinking along the same lines as you, as they have said there will be both a shield throw ability and friendly blocking ability.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cover

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Shield_throw

    It might not be as flashy with the spinning blades like you describe, but the effect will be the same. What I would personally like to see is these 2 abilities combined together with a single cooldown. That way, you would have to choose whether to generate more threat by attacking the enemy, or reducing the damage your teammate's take. You could also make the blocking effect more powerful at the cost of reducing the tank's own defenses while they are protecting their ally. For example, when you throw out your shield to an ally, it blocks all damage done to that ally for x seconds, but in the meantime you cannot block attacks yourself.

    Giving players options like this really makes them think more about the fight and decide when to use their abilities, rather than just using them on cooldown regardless of the situation.
  • consultantconsultant Member
    edited August 7
    One way to introduce double shields is to give this particular ability to a mini boss or boss in a raid or dungeoun.. In league of legends there is champion called galio and one of the abilities is winds of war. That is how a double shield throw would kind of look in game according to may imagination. But the options for that is only limited by creativity.

    But just wanted to pointed that it could look pretty cool.
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