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[Poll] Freedom to Change Gender, Race and Primary Class & Should Joining a Guild be Account-bound?

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Comments

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I just hope the character creator is good
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    They have said that changing the secondary is probably going to happen. Would need a quest, and possibly a timer, but doable.
  • Aisa AaxAisa Aax Member
    edited July 2020
    I hate alts period. I love FFXIV approach where you can make 1 character, level up all classes and professions on them, and then use Fantasia to completely swap gender/race/appearance.

    I don't think that such model suits ashes too much with it's focus on community-dependance of you as a player.

    But I do think that switching gender and even race should be allowed.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Holy Necro, and I don't mean Nagash.

    The good news is all three polls are still firmly saying No to all three questions. Rock on.
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Neurath wrote: »
    Holy Necro, and I don't mean Nagash.

    The good news is all three polls are still firmly saying No to all three questions. Rock on.

    Im so proud
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • TL DR: Adding these in the game design will create more problems for the devs and their vision of the game than it will solve problems.

    Changing race, primary class and so on freely will cause technical issues and won't really solve anything.

    Restricting an entire account to a single guild is a super bad decision considering they want there to be spying, politics and that sort of thing in the game that is player driven. Having to make an entirely new account and pay an additional subscription fee to do that will hinder the game and the mechanics and player interactions the developers want to see in the game.
  • NiraadaNiraada Member
    edited July 2020
    Choices should matter. No one is forcing anyone to make an alt, and framing it as such because you feel that your own choice is disadvantageous isn't accurate.

    If you hate leveling alts, if that discomfort is enough to dissuade you, then that's your choice. If you feel pressured to make an alt and don't think you can achieve your goals in game without one, well then again, it's up to you to do that or adjust your goals.

    I'm not going to pretend social pressure isn't a thing, but acting like your agency is being taken away by not providing you every convenience isn't quite reasonable.

    If you want a new experience, start a new character.

    If you just want more without having to put in the effort... well, I'm sure you'll figure something out.

    Ultimately, if you're not interested in a game where the choices you make have consequences... I mean, that's what Ashes is billed as. What you're asking for runs completely against that.

    Is not being able to change your race going to ruin your experience of the game? Class? Gender? There are other titles out there that are all about making the experience of their players as homogeneous as possible.

    I'm not saying you're wrong to want these things; I just think you're looking for them in the wrong place.
  • YodamooYodamoo Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'm pretty new here but fell in love with the game very fast after hearing about it. Been watching all the videos I can find and researching my ass off. That being said, I like these polls! They do show clearly what the majority of people want...all except the guild one! I see this is a pretty necro'd thread but it really shows what the community wants so I think it is a good one to be in!

    I must say, while I disagree with the OP on almost everything, I do agree with the idea of joining a guild as a person/account rather than each character. While I do understand the desire to have characters in multiple guilds for various reasons, I feel that it builds a stronger bond of community if you are always working for the betterment of one group. BDO has done a good job with this and it really helps guilds to rely on each other to fill certain roles and know that they have the people they need to do it.

    It's easy to lose interest in a guild if you are in another one that is performing slightly better. So what happens? Maybe you spend more time in the "better" one and the other one suffers from your absence. Then maybe you leave it all together because you know there is better out there. I don't like this because it promotes shopping around for something better instead of working to make what you have better. There is no reason any guild should be "bad" if you work hard together to make it good! But that takes an investment!

    Anyhow, that's just my opinion. Not a lot of votes on the polls but it is 50/50 as of my casting my vote so it seems there may be some merit to it. That being said I will reiterate that I very strongly disagree with the OP on everything else they said lol

    P.S. I'm Yodamoo! Great to meet you all!
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    If all alts are bound to the same Guild then alts will be difficult to make. Alts count towards the total people in a Guild and Guilds are restricted to 300 Members. I do not want my ability to make Alts be restricted because the Guild I'm in want active players and not Alts in the game. Why should I allow my Guild to dictate whether I can make an Alt or not?!
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  • Neurath wrote: »
    If all alts are bound to the same Guild then alts will be difficult to make. Alts count towards the total people in a Guild and Guilds are restricted to 300 Members. I do not want my ability to make Alts be restricted because the Guild I'm in want active players and not Alts in the game. Why should I allow my Guild to dictate whether I can make an Alt or not?!

    This, on top of a slew of other problems!
  • Neurath wrote: »
    If all alts are bound to the same Guild then alts will be difficult to make. Alts count towards the total people in a Guild and Guilds are restricted to 300 Members. I do not want my ability to make Alts be restricted because the Guild I'm in want active players and not Alts in the game. Why should I allow my Guild to dictate whether I can make an Alt or not?!

    Was it mentioned that alts would count towards the guild cap? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect that when guilds are account wide, the account itself is what's counted towards the guild cap?

    Is there a need to sensationalise something like this?

  • YodamooYodamoo Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Damn I missed a point...some have mentioned that there is to be spying and politics that might have people wanting to join other guilds. Well to that I say, do it! But in order to do it you should have to commit to it! You should have to leave the guild you are in, as you would have to in real life, and go join the guild you are to spy on! This will have various effects!

    First it will make guild recruiting a lot more careful! Guilds who care about their status and posture will want to make sure they are keeping an eye on new recruits to try and avoid leaking info to those who might be spies! It will also mean that the spy will have to dedicate some time to it and there could be a system in place to reward such things, as opposed to many games that punish guild hopping.

    Just sitting an alt in a guild and occasionally logging on to try and get info is lazy and boring...Spying should be something that takes dedication and effort but can have big rewards! It does seem to be a pretty damn complex game already though so maybe I am just adding unnecessary complication that might be too much to fit in at this point lol.
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • YodamooYodamoo Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Niraada wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    If all alts are bound to the same Guild then alts will be difficult to make. Alts count towards the total people in a Guild and Guilds are restricted to 300 Members. I do not want my ability to make Alts be restricted because the Guild I'm in want active players and not Alts in the game. Why should I allow my Guild to dictate whether I can make an Alt or not?!

    Was it mentioned that alts would count towards the guild cap? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect that when guilds are account wide, the account itself is what's counted towards the guild cap?

    Is there a need to sensationalise something like this?

    I agree 100%!!! If being in a guild is an account wide thing, then the account should count as 1 member...not every alt! simple as that!
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • WMC51WMC51 Member
    race, gender, and primary class should stay locked. That's the character you created. What's the point of that if you can just change it whenever.

    I imaging you will know if you like a class by lvl 10 or 20.

    Think about the people who had to make new characters in other games when they released a new race or class.

    You.learn to play the character as you level so if you just change at 50 you won't know the abilities well.
  • Valento92Valento92 Member
    edited July 2020
    In 2020 it doesn't make sense to disallow resetting class/gender, maybe race. People are so narrow-minded about "hurdur you were born this way, can't change now". That being said, price and time (maybe level) restrictions should apply. As far as guilds go, account-bound makes more sense to me but that's entirely personal.
    "Magic is not a tool, little one. It is a river that unites us in its current."

    I heard a bird ♫
  • @Valento92 so now people disagreeing with your assertions is somehow a political statement or bigotry?

    How broadminded.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Niraada wrote: »
    Was it mentioned that alts would count towards the guild cap? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect that when guilds are account wide, the account itself is what's counted towards the guild cap?

    Is there a need to sensationalise something like this?

    Yes, IS said Alts attribute to the Guild Cap, if this is no longer the case I remove my objection, if Guild Buffs are related to the amount of members, do you think smaller buffed Guilds would enjoy their buffs being removed by non-active Alts?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Valento92 wrote: »
    In 2020 it doesn't make sense to disallow resetting class/gender, maybe race. People are so narrow-minded about "hurdur you were born this way, can't change now". That being said, price and time (maybe level) restrictions should apply. As far as guilds go, account-bound makes more sense to me but that's entirely personal.

    to be fair this is not race as species. Orks and dwarfs are about the same as snakes and crocodiles yes both are reptiles but they are different in many ways
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • YodamooYodamoo Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Valento92 wrote: »
    In 2020 it doesn't make sense to disallow resetting class/gender, maybe race. People are so narrow-minded about "hurdur you were born this way, can't change now". That being said, price and time (maybe level) restrictions should apply. As far as guilds go, account-bound makes more sense to me but that's entirely personal.

    First, what does 2020 have to do with anything? This is a video game that does not take place in 2020 I'm pretty sure. Second, grouping class with gender as you have is really wrong because they are such vastly different things, in game and in real life.

    I'm pretty sure no one cares about gender swapping...it has no affect on stats so whatever. My problem with it is that it will likely also allow a name change. In a game like this there should be some accountability. if you troll hard and get a bad rep you shouldn't just be allowed to gender/name change. Same goes for race change but that's even worse because races have different stats so you are gaining a possible advantage by race changing.

    As for Class...absolutely not! If you are a level 50 master swordsman then one day you say to yourself, "Hey, I wanna be an archer now", you can't just pick up a bow and suddenly be a level 50 master of archery. What a ridiculous idea! Now maybe if they did it in a way that you were bumped down to level 10 or something, sure go for it. But no one can just suddenly change what they are a master of in real life and it would really screw up the meta in game if people could do it all willy-nilly.
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • YodamooYodamoo Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Niraada wrote: »
    Was it mentioned that alts would count towards the guild cap? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect that when guilds are account wide, the account itself is what's counted towards the guild cap?

    Is there a need to sensationalise something like this?

    Yes, IS said Alts attribute to the Guild Cap, if this is no longer the case I remove my objection, if Guild Buffs are related to the amount of members, do you think smaller buffed Guilds would enjoy their buffs being removed by non-active Alts?

    To be fair, I think gaining buffs for filling your guild with useless alts would be crappy...alts shouldn't count toward the number of members if the number of members matters. Likewise I don't think they should count if there is a member limit, but this is easy to fix if every account is locked to a guild.

    I know my posts above are long winded but I tried to explain my reasoning's well. Hope I did :)
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • I don't think there is any further merrit to contnuing this thread tbh. OP and his supporters don't want to see how these changes will hurt the game in many ways except for changing gender as it offers to mechanical or otherwise difference in terms of gamplay.
  • Tsukasa wrote: »
    This is an old topic but I haven't changed my mind. You will understand what I mean when the game is out.

    Your aesthetic taste about race/gender could change.
    Among 64 classes, many won't find what's suits them on first try even with videos/readings.
    You'd rather quit entirely over starting over just to change 1 thing.

    @Neurath Account-bound guild means alts count as one 1 member.
    You can temporarily swap to your Artisan alt to craft something without missing out on your guild's conversation. Like BDO, the chat continues even during character select.

    The only case where i would agree to this is if the primary class swap needs a lot of effort to farm out an item in the game and has like a 3 month cooldown. Other than that, it is a pretty bad design decision and i don't really see it working.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I can concede it would be good if one was to make all Alts on the same Server, but, what If I made Alts on a different server? Would I still be locked into the original Guild? I don't particularly like anything to be bound across an account. I stomach the Freehold situation after a lot of soul searching but I think grouping Alts together is against the spirits of Alts. In Age of Conan, I had an Alt and a Main. I ended up making a new Guild on my Alt and then transferred my Main. If all Alts had to be situated with the Main then my options and experience would be extremely narrow.
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  • YodamooYodamoo Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    This seems like a game that would benefit from having larger guilds with dedicated members. I do not see it being a good idea to have a whole slew of small alt filled guilds popping up. It is simply a waste of players....Get in there and make something grand to fight with and work with. If you want to branch off and make your own guild, you better be willing to have all your alts come along too and really dedicate yourself to it! So sick of games catering to the super casual like WoW. Lets have a game where people can really try to accomplish something grand!
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yodamoo wrote: »
    This seems like a game that would benefit from having larger guilds with dedicated members. I do not see it being a good idea to have a whole slew of small alt filled guilds popping up. It is simply a waste of players....Get in there and make something grand to fight with and work with. If you want to branch off and make your own guild, you better be willing to have all your alts come along too and really dedicate yourself to it! So sick of games catering to the super casual like WoW. Lets have a game where people can really try to accomplish something grand!

    If you must know, I made a Bounty Hunter Guild on my Alt, and then moved my Raid Tank. My other Guild wasn't PvP Focussed. You could say that I made a bad choice at first, but, we did PvP while levelling. At Max Level Guilds can switch focus. I did take all my Alts to my new Guild, I also had 8 level 80's in the new Guild at the end of it all. Yet, I do not think it would have happened at all had my options been narrowed in terms of Account Wide actions.

    I can agree some actions should be account wide, but, I do not think Alts should be 100% be restricted in this way. I've seen posts from supporters of this Account Wide Idea which state Alts are bad in any way shape and form. I do not think therefore, that I can accept such a radical approach to Alts. You would effectively force everyone with Alts to be limited in actions and I believe such limitations would send people away from the game. Sometimes an Alt is an expression of a different stance - I play in terms of honour and dishonour, why would I want my Honourable Toons to be in the same situation as my Dishonourable Toons?

    Yes, I'm an RP-PvPer, or would be an RP-PvPer if all servers weren't PvX.
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  • My take on changing class/profession is that as in real life, when you are starting out you may try a bunch of different jobs before deciding on a career. You may even retrain to a new career after working 20 years in that career, people do it all the time. A lot of careers have transferable skills.
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Well, since the thread has been necro-ed, I can necro my post.

    Making changes to existing characters should not happen. Steven has said in the past that a character has a reputation. Changing class, name, possibly even race should not happen as it would defeat the purpose of a reputation.

    You want a different class? Roll a new character. Want a new race, roll a new character. Let's put the RPG back in MMORPG. How many role playing games allow you to change the basics of your character?

    If they do allow changes to race or class, the character should be reset to level 1 in all respects. If you have progression in anything, it gets reset with the rest. Since you are changing the absolute base of your character, everything else should be reset as well.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Well, since the thread has been necro-ed, I can necro my post.

    Making changes to existing characters should not happen. Steven has said in the past that a character has a reputation. Changing class, name, possibly even race should not happen as it would defeat the purpose of a reputation.

    You want a different class? Roll a new character. Want a new race, roll a new character. Let's put the RPG back in MMORPG. How many role playing games allow you to change the basics of your character?

    If they do allow changes to race or class, the character should be reset to level 1 in all respects. If you have progression in anything, it gets reset with the rest. Since you are changing the absolute base of your character, everything else should be reset as well.

    I heard you like necro so now you can necro while you necro
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • VolgaireVolgaire Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    As expected. Most of the comments are going to be "I disagree because Intrepid said so".

    Or maybe people actually enjoy the idea of having some form of consequence to their choices. An MMO being wishy washy, “Nothing you pick matters!” is unappealing to me personally.

    Besides, your whole argument in the OP boils down to “I hate alts”. Nothing that actually presents an overarching issue that would be solved by freedom to chance class and race (MAJOR gameplay altering features) freely.

    I asked for "very serious consequences" that isn't becoming a permanent choice.
    I don't mind being limited to change my primary class once every 3-6 months, just not permanent please.

    Why you would want a changeable primary class is baffling to me, adding that feature would make characters meaningless to me. If I could change everything about my character it would no longer be that character since I can be John on Monday and Bob on Sunday...
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