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APOC Angst

VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
Now that apoc has been unleashed upon the great unwashed masses I have lost count of the number of comments I have seen on forums, reddit and youtube expressing outrage at the fact that Intrepid was supposed to be making an MMO but all we have is a BR. Those in the know try in vain to set the record straight telling the ill informed that indeed the MMO is still being worked on and the BR is just a test bed for many systems that will be used in the MMO. There is much crying, rage and gnashing of teeth at the supposed change in direction by Intrepid it's all quite amusing really.

But the question is what should we as followers of Ashes of Creation do about all of this misinformation?

IMO NOTHING!

While there is great consternation out there surrounding apoc right now once we get into Alpha 1 then roll into Alpha 2 and the Beta phases Apoc will barely register in the back of peoples minds. There will be so much MMO coverage out there surrounding Ashes of Creation almost all of those who wrote Intrepid off will all be standing up paying attention waiting for that launch day to arrive. There is such a thirst amongst gamers for a quality MMO the ball is honestly in Intrepids court as to whether they can make that game.

So IMO let the fools rage and throw their tantrums they will be back.
3KAqRIf.png
Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
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Comments

  • WololoWololo Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Alpha One
    while that is true, i think it still has a effect. like the IGN trailer that now has 119k vieuws or the times asmongold talked about it. ( which is also clipped on youtube ) and asmon vieuwers are part of the hardcore mmo community. just the people you want to reconise and spread the word about the game. i also experienced on a personal level with one friend who is looking for a new long term mmo and i told her this is a testing ground so she joined, a hour later i get a picture on whatsapp from the cashshop with 'is this supposed to be in a test ?' now what can i say after praising this game XD feld wierd. imo even if it shaves off 1% from the final playerbase that is alrdy 1% to much. i cant imagine apoc profits can make up for that in the long term. iam not trying to be negative here but just want the game to succeed.
    Wololo.png
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    I agree that there is quite a lot of negativity surrounding apoc but honestly once we get into the Alpha and Beta stages many of the so called big streamers will be jumping on the MMO bandwagon trying to get those views and likes. So it will be up to Intrepid to deliver the game they promised, and the whole apoc thing will just be a memory.
    3KAqRIf.png
    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • My main 2 genres are MMOs and FPS and i normally get bored of BRs after a couple weeks. That being said fantasy BRs like this and shadow arena from BDO <with all its flaws> i do actually enjoy. Its obvious and even been stated they are using APOC to get early combat testing and feedback while they are working on game systems. Which normally come way later in testing. and it prob didnt take much time to get APOC into our hands. If people dont understand that and want to rage about it and leave i think the community would be in a better place. But as ive posted several places their lack of presence and engagement on forums and social media is more of an issue than apoc.
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    I hope Ashes doesnt release as an "early access" title like APOC did. That's my only real concern. The players that Will choose not to play Ashes because of the BR APOC would likely not be long term players anyways. This might actually help quell release date server issues. For all we know, that might have been IS' plan all along. :wink:
    57597603_387667588743769_477625458809110528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=16e82247154b84484b7f627c0ac76fca&oe=5D448BDD
    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • Ashes Alphas and Betas are thankfully locked to those who’ve bought in, so at least we know we’ll have a good deal more time to get familiar with the game systems than someone hopping in for the last few iterations on a limited free access mode.

    The sub-based model will keep it from becoming a total cess pool I hope.
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    crossing my fingers on this one
    57597603_387667588743769_477625458809110528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=16e82247154b84484b7f627c0ac76fca&oe=5D448BDD
    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    edited September 2019
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    We all know why Apoc exists, but that does not mean we have to like it. I'm sick of people who say we can't have bad opinions about apoc and that we should be quiet. The game is a test, and we know that but its also monetised and will soon be a stand-alone game. If the was the alpha of the MMORPG then I could understand some defences but its not the alpha test of the MMORPG its not even a full test of the combat as stated by steven, it just feels like its a waste of time and resources, but thats just me.
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    I agree. I feel bummed that the BR test grounds moved to Steam and had an early access release before I even got to try out Alpha Test 1. Since Alpha Test 1 became the APOC BR (Somehow) and I still don't have an Alpha Test 1.

    Again, if Alpha Test 1 came out before APOC moved to Steam I would have 0 complaints.
    57597603_387667588743769_477625458809110528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=16e82247154b84484b7f627c0ac76fca&oe=5D448BDD
    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • Even got to try out alpha test 1 what? the mmo alpha test 1 ? if that is what you meant you do realize that ironing out combat is one of the last things to happen. In previous years you would of never seen a single piece of work from a game at this stage in development Early access has warped your outlook on things. Yes APOC is going to be a stand alone game, BUT you will be seeing them iterate on the combat systems < not just swinging a weapon, but weapon impact, projectile speed, unit collision, what uses stam/what doesnt/ how much. Is mobility too high, is mobility in combat too low while using it to run too high.>

    TLDR- Before early access wave you wouldnt even know a game existed at this stage of development. you are testing and helping shape the game systems with feedback. so enjoy the ride or get off the bus.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Cain wrote: »
    Even got to try out alpha test 1 what? the mmo alpha test 1 ? if that is what you meant you do realize that ironing out combat is one of the last things to happen. In previous years you would of never seen a single piece of work from a game at this stage in development Early access has warped your outlook on things. Yes APOC is going to be a stand alone game, BUT you will be seeing them iterate on the combat systems < not just swinging a weapon, but weapon impact, projectile speed, unit collision, what uses stam/what doesnt/ how much. Is mobility too high, is mobility in combat too low while using it to run too high.>

    TLDR- Before early access wave you wouldnt even know a game existed at this stage of development. you are testing and helping shape the game systems with feedback. so enjoy the ride or get off the bus.

    I did more testing than most people in the community in alpha 0, so don't say I don't know how to test. We have backed this game with and are happy to help, but the BR is not an actual test if it were we would have seen hybrid combat and not full-tilt action combat we have
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    @Cain enjoy the ride or get off the bus?

    Yeah, I suppose you can for sure say I am off the APOC bus. Are you suggesting that before a game company opens up a test to investors they should open a test for everyone because "combat?"

    I didn't have a problem with APOC as an alpha test. I really don't have a problem with it now. I said I feel bummed. People can feel things, it's cool, even if you dont feel the same things.

    Also, being the first of two Alphas and one of four tests, wouldn't Alpha 1 testing be the place to work on and improve combat?

    I agree, prior to alpha testing by paid (historically) testers or investors (where most of us are) the game wouldn't release an early access. Especially not under the guise of a separate game all together.

    This thread was posted in the Ashes section of the forum.
    57597603_387667588743769_477625458809110528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=16e82247154b84484b7f627c0ac76fca&oe=5D448BDD
    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • Nagash wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    We all know why Apoc exists, but that does not mean we have to like it. I'm sick of people who say we can't have bad opinions about apoc and that we should be quiet. The game is a test, and we know that but its also monetised and will soon be a stand-alone game. If the was the alpha of the MMORPG then I could understand some defences but its not the alpha test of the MMORPG its not even a full test of the combat as stated by steven, it just feels like its a waste of time and resources, but thats just me.

    It has this far established and aided in the development of a stable backend that allows for large node wars. It is currently bringing in grouping mechanics, figuring out how to exclude friendlies from damage via squads a duos, testing movement mechanics for gliding, horseback, and on foot, and establishing basic functionality of casting.

    You can hate BRs all you like, I don’t enjoy them either, but to call it a waste of resources is disingenuous.
  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old
    I remember watching a content creator and his panel talk about this very topic. I believe the general tone was no one is going to care about the bad press the BR is getting once the MMO is in testing phase.

    This being my first game to follow so early on, I kind of wish I wouldn't have lol
    Not in a bad way just that the anxiety of it all is a bit much.

    Every MMO I've been green from the start and it was always disheartening to hear about how that particular game was rubbish due to changes or financing from the older backers. Since I had no clue about that, I just enjoyed the game for what it was at the time and loved a few.

    So I believe the negative cloud surrounding APOC and IS will eventually dampen down, once players are in the MMO and deciding for themselves.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    We all know why Apoc exists, but that does not mean we have to like it. I'm sick of people who say we can't have bad opinions about apoc and that we should be quiet. The game is a test, and we know that but its also monetised and will soon be a stand-alone game. If the was the alpha of the MMORPG then I could understand some defences but its not the alpha test of the MMORPG its not even a full test of the combat as stated by steven, it just feels like its a waste of time and resources, but thats just me.

    It has this far established and aided in the development of a stable backend that allows for large node wars. It is currently bringing in grouping mechanics, figuring out how to exclude friendlies from damage via squads a duos, testing movement mechanics for gliding, horseback, and on foot, and establishing basic functionality of casting.

    You can hate BRs all you like, I don’t enjoy them either, but to call it a waste of resources is disingenuous.

    I understand all of that, and I'm happy to see it working and I know I was harsh in saying its a waste of time and resources but I just can help compare APOC to alpha 0. In alpha 0 we had nodes working, we had PvP and PvE, classes and a basic character sheet. I just never got we they didn't use Alpha 0 as a testing ground with more people instead of APOC. Instead, we have APOC, which is a standalone game with heavy monetisation. I know I sound angry but I know how good intriped can be as I'ven it, but APOC is not their best and that's what aggravates me
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • WololoWololo Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Alpha One
    Shroud is streaming for 30k viewers rn, and the chat seems pretty positive and understanding for the mmo. This is great to see :#
    Wololo.png
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Makinoji wrote: »
    I remember watching a content creator and his panel talk about this very topic. I believe the general tone was no one is going to care about the bad press the BR is getting once the MMO is in testing phase.

    This being my first game to follow so early on, I kind of wish I wouldn't have lol
    Not in a bad way just that the anxiety of it all is a bit much.

    Every MMO I've been green from the start and it was always disheartening to hear about how that particular game was rubbish due to changes or financing from the older backers. Since I had no clue about that, I just enjoyed the game for what it was at the time and loved a few.

    So I believe the negative cloud surrounding APOC and IS will eventually dampen down, once players are in the MMO and deciding for themselves.

    This is the whole point of the thread just expressing my opinion that this BR will just be a memory and pretty much forgotten about once we hit alpha 1 and beyond. All of the bad and negative press will dissipate to a large degree though there will always be haters no matter how good the MMO is.
    Wololo wrote: »
    Shroud is streaming for 30k viewers rn, and the chat seems pretty positive and understanding for the mmo. This is great to see :#

    A streamer who has done their research and understands what the BR is there to achieve.

    There is nothing wrong with a being negative just be constructive and provide feedback.
    3KAqRIf.png
    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    This comments just shows how some people believe blindly every excuse what developers have told them.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?


  • Agreed.
    Nagash wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    I'm sick of people who say we can't have bad opinions about apoc and that we should be quiet.

    Yeah me too.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • CaerylCaeryl Member
    edited September 2019
    ferryman wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    This comments just shows how some people believe blindly every excuse what developers have told them.

    “Blindly” seeing what APOC has contributed to for combat, sever performance, grouping mechanics.

    You’re just upset because you’ve never actually seen a game’s gritty development process. Imagine being shown the white space animation testing areas, and then complaining that your getting an animation gallery instead of an MMO.

    Every part of this has its use.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    This comments just shows how some people believe blindly every excuse what developers have told them.

    “Blindly” seeing what APOC has contributed to for combat, sever performance, grouping mechanics.

    You’re just upset because you’ve never actually seen a game’s gritty development process. Imagine being shown the white space animation testing areas, and then complaining that your getting an animation gallery instead of an MMO.

    Every part of this has its use.
    If it was a white space animation area for a completely different game, yes I’d be justifiably pissed off as they wasted time and resources on something unrelated to what I invested in.
    U752vHP.png
  • Atama wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    This comments just shows how some people believe blindly every excuse what developers have told them.

    “Blindly” seeing what APOC has contributed to for combat, sever performance, grouping mechanics.

    You’re just upset because you’ve never actually seen a game’s gritty development process. Imagine being shown the white space animation testing areas, and then complaining that your getting an animation gallery instead of an MMO.

    Every part of this has its use.
    If it was a white space animation area for a completely different game, yes I’d be justifiably pissed off as they wasted time and resources on something unrelated to what I invested in.

    Given that everything in APOC is part of the larger MMO experience, you have no reason for all this grief. It's for testing MMO features of combat without having to manage the completely unrelated aspects involved in the world building. Their server has to be able to smoothly handle all the input commands and calculations for player actions before it can start handling everything else too.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Atama wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    This comments just shows how some people believe blindly every excuse what developers have told them.

    “Blindly” seeing what APOC has contributed to for combat, sever performance, grouping mechanics.

    You’re just upset because you’ve never actually seen a game’s gritty development process. Imagine being shown the white space animation testing areas, and then complaining that your getting an animation gallery instead of an MMO.

    Every part of this has its use.
    If it was a white space animation area for a completely different game, yes I’d be justifiably pissed off as they wasted time and resources on something unrelated to what I invested in.

    Given that everything in APOC is part of the larger MMO experience, you have no reason for all this grief. It's for testing MMO features of combat without having to manage the completely unrelated aspects involved in the world building. Their server has to be able to smoothly handle all the input commands and calculations for player actions before it can start handling everything else too.
    But this isn’t the MMO combat. Where is the hybrid tab/action? You can’t say that you’re testing the combat system when you don’t even have it in place. Where are my class spells? You’re swallowing their tripe and calling it steak.

    Honestly I don’t buy this propaganda about how the BR is necessary to get the MMO working right. That’s BS. It’s a lie. If you’re a pizza place you don’t bake birthday cakes because you want to make sure the ovens work. Total crap.

    Let’s call this what it is... A cash grab and a distraction. Battle Royale games are popular right now and easy to make. They have zero content. You make a combat system then you’re done. Players run around and play tag with swords and bows. It gives them a revenue stream and shows customers that there’s “something” even though it’s not remotely what was promised or asked for.

    I hope that they are getting something out of this. I hope that this is somehow helping them test a few systems that might be used later. But there is absolutely no question that developing the BR is delaying the MMO. APOC requires resources to make and maintain which aren’t going toward AoC.

    Going back to the pizza place analogy, it’s like they got investors to help them make a pizza joint, but pizza is hard to get right so they start making tortilla chips. The time spent making chips and getting them right absolutely delays the pizza development. If you’re an investor you’re rightfully concerned about this restaurant. If they’re telling you “we have to make chips before making pizza” you’re going to call them on that, because that is absolutely not a natural precursor. You don’t learn how to make dough from rolling tortillas.

    Again, I haven’t given up on IS and I do have hope that they’re still working as hard as ever on the MMO, and that somehow this will help with that (if indirectly). But don’t sell me a load of crap that APOC is necessary for the MMO to be developed.

    “It's for testing MMO features of combat without having to manage the completely unrelated aspects involved in the world building.” Bullcrap. Do you know how you test the MMO combat without managing the world-building? Give us the MMO combat without the world-building part. But they’re not. They could let us play using the MMO combat system and features, and make it PvP so you don’t even have to worry about NPCs. You don’t make a parallel, unrelated action combat system so that we can play D&D Fortnite.
    U752vHP.png
  • Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    We could ask whos fault is that raging and crying? It is only Intrepid Studios own fault.

    Maybe it was the plan from the beginning or maybe it was a change of strategy...

    In any case, they have misleaded people and now they just have to deal with that negative feedback. Unfortunately they have deserved it and only time will tell if they get their reputation back.

    Speaking of angst from people who don’t understand why APOC exists

    This comments just shows how some people believe blindly every excuse what developers have told them.

    “Blindly” seeing what APOC has contributed to for combat, sever performance, grouping mechanics.

    You’re just upset because you’ve never actually seen a game’s gritty development process. Imagine being shown the white space animation testing areas, and then complaining that your getting an animation gallery instead of an MMO.

    Every part of this has its use.

    If a gaming company is developing several games at the same time, of course they can use some same ideas and mechanics in their games how they want to. However, like already pointed out, AoC the MMORPG does not need the Apoc or its data to be finished, and even the combat testing argument does not make that much sense if the combat won't be the same.

    Now people are disapointed, because they backed for a game which was supposted to be MMORPG. Then suddenly BR game popped up from nowhere. This has clearly delayd the main project what people have paid for, and now even some people are concerned are they going to see the MMORPG at all. The whole Apoc project is now sold us as a testing ground even it is clearly more about a business move. It is a change of business strategy or it was kept as a secret for a "good" reason.

    Yeah I personally believe that we are going to see the AoC MMORPG at someday, but it will be delayed because of Apoc. Anyway, my trust for IS is very thin atm, simply because I feel misleaded.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • umjiumji Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    PLUS ONE.
    Umji.png

  • Theyre getting valuable accuracy data thats basically mandatory for balancing hybrid combat.

    Apoc is an attempt to make testing fun for the players. Having empty space for testing wouldve most likely kept the amount of player testers very low in addition to lacking player interaction data.

    I think that basic capture the flag or alike couldve fit more for mmo testing, but considering the recent trends and need for players I can see how they ended up here.

    "You're seeking for perfection, but your disillusions are leading to destruction.
    You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Theyre getting valuable accuracy data thats basically mandatory for balancing hybrid combat.

    Apoc is an attempt to make testing fun for the players. Having empty space for testing wouldve most likely kept the amount of player testers very low in addition to lacking player interaction data.

    I think that basic capture the flag or alike couldve fit more for mmo testing, but considering the recent trends and need for players I can see how they ended up here.

    I just hope they have the numbers to get data otherwise all this would have been for nought
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • The gaming world is really busy these days. Most players will only give your game one look.
  • Theyre getting valuable accuracy data thats basically mandatory for balancing hybrid combat.

    Apoc is an attempt to make testing fun for the players. Having empty space for testing wouldve most likely kept the amount of player testers very low in addition to lacking player interaction data.

    I think that basic capture the flag or alike couldve fit more for mmo testing, but considering the recent trends and need for players I can see how they ended up here.

    Or they could focus straight for that hybrid combat. ;)

    Apoc testing can of course be fun for some players, but that is not why the game has developed at first place. This is purely business matter, which of course gives devs some data for MMORPG project too, but without the Apoc the MMORPG would be much more further what it is right now. This is the main reason why so many are disapointed, frustrated or angry or something.

    There is a really good reason why that capture flag does not fit more to MMORPG.. :wink::D
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
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