Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
You notice how I didn’t mention the animations or the effects. I just said the combat itself and the way the itemization works won’t be in the MMORPG. Intrepid has confirmed that the crazy jumps are for BR only. TTK and balance being tweaked during testing for the MMORPG means that it will be different between the BR and the MMORPG. And lastly, when I say that the player size will be different in the MMORPG I mean that a lot more than 200 players are expected to be in one concentrated zone which is a lot more than than the BR has done and therefore it will be different.
So at the end of the day all my points still stand and the BR is different from the MMORPG in more ways than just the Storm. Then how come that you always feel like contradicting me... relax and move on. It’s fact. The BR will different from the MMORPG in many more ways than just the storm.
2: Testing doesn't really build anything, but everything in the BR except for the storm are assets from the MMORPG. APOC has separate servers from the MMORPG - which is what the majority of the APOC funding goes towards.
3: The action-combat of the BR will be in the MMORPG, with relatively minor tweaks to the numbers. Same is true for super-jump - but the super-jump will also be limited to a class rather than be available for all.
4: The BR doesn't really propel MMORPG development. The BR tests the bare bones of MMORPG development. Although, the BR did act as an early flag for network issues which the devs took 6+ months to fix.
5: They could have kept us on the A0 map - I mentioned that. People would have complained that we hadn't seen anything new in a couple of years.
6: The devs could have given us the classes from PAX with action abilities, but they wouldn't be getting the same kind of data that they're able to get from the BR Dailies and Weeklies. The set up of the BR has me testing weapons and gear and abilities that I would be avoiding with a class system.
7: We agree that the devs had other choices, but chose a BR - because it's the quickest and easiest way for them to have players test early and provide the data they want.
8: I never said, "The only difference between the BR and the MMORPG is the storm."
Case Closed
1. There’s a difference between not trusting Intrepid’s dates and not trusting their claim that APOC is a stand-alone game. By that logic we can’t trust that Intrepid is still working on an MMORPG anymore and that they have instead just settled on the BR game. If they say it’s a standalone game who are you to say that it isn’t?
2. What? They’re using the APOC tests to build an MMORPG. Almost everything they’re testing out in APOC is literally supposed to help build and develop the MMORPG. What are you even saying? APOC’s purpose is literally to help build the MMORPG. What?
3. The action-combat will not be in the MMORPG with “relatively minor tweaks”. A hybrid system is very different from an action system. Which is why Intrepid said that if the hybrid system doesn’t work they’ll go for a tab-target only system. So as I said before the BR (action only) and MMORPG (hybrid/tab-target only) combat system will not be the same.
5. You don’t know that people would have complained about that. Stop pulling stuff out of your bum.
6. Why are you making stuff up and assuming things as if they’re proven facts? How do you know they wouldn’t be getting the same data? They could’ve had team or single player death matches with the PAX classes on the Alpha 0 map and have gathered the exact same data that they got from the BR. Literally the exact same fighting and action except without the BR looting rules. It’s a testing ground after all... it doesn’t have to be a game within a named genre to work as a testing ground. And they could definitely have dailies and weeklies there too.
Who cares that “the BR has you testing weapons and gear abilities that you would be avoiding with a class system”? The MMORPG abilities will be much closer to the PAX system (class abilities) than the BR system (gear abilities). Your weapons will offer some abilities based on your class, but most of your abilities will come from a class kit not from the gear. Therefore, PAX system is closer to the MMORPG than the BR.
7. No, we don’t agree that the BR the was the fastest way to test. I literally just said that they had a map and multiple classes already designed. The BR literally took more time to design because of the gear abilities, looting system, storm etc. Again, they already had a map and classes so the BR by definition takes longer than something that already existed.
8. You literally said that the storm is the only thing that won’t be in the MMORPG... aka the only difference. Come on man... stop lying.
The case is no where close to being closed because you’re still talking nonsense as shown above.
But, that illustrates why I am not going to continue to entertain your ignorance and flawed logic in this thread.
Haha. I’ll make it simple. Something that is a certain way in one instance and either not present or just present but in a different way in another instance is literally the definition of the word difference.
So when you say that “the only thing in the BR that won't be in the MMORPG is the storm” you are describing something (the storm) that is present in one instance (the BR) and not present in another instance (the MMORPG). As I explained above thats literally the definition of a difference. So your claim as I said, is that the storm is the only thing that’s different between the BR and the MMORPG.
So my paraphrase based on what you said is perfectly correct.
Not to mention that you didn’t even address all the other points where I proved you wrong. One quick ridiculous example of your claims would be when you said: “ As you should know by now, it doesn't really matter what IS says. What matters is what IS has shown“. Like I said, by that logic we can’t trust that Intrepid is still working on an MMORPG anymore. And that’s just one example of our previous conversation that you refuse to address. You can either admit that you’re wrong and like two adults we’ll move on with a clear understanding of the truth or you can try to explain your points which I previously very simply refuted.
It’s childish of you to say that you won’t talk to me anymore because I have a flawed logic when the definition of the word difference is literally what you described between the BR and the MMORPG.
Because that seems to be what you're saying.
Ah hey buddy! You’re back too?
Did I say totally different? Or did I just say different?
Why don’t you read the paragraph right after that one too? Because there I explain how Dygz’s statement claims that the storm is the only difference (not total difference or whatever words you’re trying to put in my mouth) between the BR and the MMORPG.
Here, I’ll copy paste it for you to make it easier:
“So when you say that “the only thing in the BR that won't be in the MMORPG is the storm” you are describing something (the storm) that is present in one instance (the BR) and not present in another instance (the MMORPG). As I explained above thats literally the definition of a difference. So your claim as I said, is that the storm is the only thing that’s different between the BR and the MMORPG”.
Why are you trying to put words in my mouth and completely exaggerate my point. I’m not talking about 300 million lines of code that differ by one variable.
I’m talking about a very simple claim that the storm is “the only thing in the BR that won’t be in the MMORPG” aka the only thing that will be different between the two games.
It’s very simple. Don’t put words in my mouth.
Edit: I’m just trying to show that there are more differences between the BR and the MMORPG because Dygz claims that there is only one, the storm.
Rather than telling people to not put words in your mouth, maybe you should tell your mouth to not say words you don't want to be called out on - because as I'm sure you're coming to realize, people here will do that.
If you consider the code and the art assets of the BR to be the bulk of the work, and thus the parts that count, all of it will be in the MMO. There will be some things changed (items hooked up to different variables in a database, as an example), but I challenge you to come up with any one thing from the BR that won't be in the MMO in some form.
Haha stop it. You’re being silly now.
First of all, I gave all those examples to show that there will be more differences between the BR and the MMORPG besides just the storm. Dygz very clearly stated that the storm will be the only difference and I corrected him because there will be more than just one difference between the two games. Yes, some of those are minor changes, but others are not.
Two of these major changes are the combat and the player count.
The combat: action only vs hybrid or tab target only (which Intrepid is considering in case hybrid doesn’t work) is a huge difference that affects many aspects of the game. Intrepid thinks hybrid is such a big undertaking that they’re even open to completely scrap it if it doesn’t work. So there you have it... the first big difference.
The player count: this aspect is not as simple as changing one variable. Haha what? You can’t be serious. Intrepid, and most games, can barely get 200 people on the same screen at once. However, for Ashes of Creation they hope to have over a thousand if not multiple thousands of players in one battle. If you think that making the jump from barely being to optimally have a couple hundred players in one battle to having a couple thousand players in one battle is as small of a change as changing one variable in thousands of lines of code I don’t know what to tell you man.
So yes, don’t put words in my mouth. Those two are big changes. But even if those weren’t big changes, which they are, my point was to correct Dygz on his false claim that the only difference between the BR and the MMORPG will be the storm.
Come on man... so you’re telling me that the same combat will be in the MMORPG and that the same player numbers will be in the MMORPG? Those are two huge things that are one way in the BR and will be another way or a different way in the MMORPG.
How can you say that your statement: “the only thing in the BR that won't be in the MMORPG is the storm” is not the same thing as ‘the only difference between the BR and the MMORPG is the storm’.
Please explain how the exact same combat and player numbers will be in both the BR and the MMORPG. If you can’t explain that the same combat and player numbers that are in the BR will also be in the MMORPG, it means that the storm isn’t the only thing that is in the BR and that will not be found in the MMORPG.
No you didn’t. This is what you said: “What I literally said does not mean the same thing as your paraphrase.
But, that illustrates why I am not going to continue to entertain your ignorance and flawed logic in this thread“.
Yet you fail to explain how “the only thing in the BR that won't be in the MMORPG is the storm” is not the same thing as ‘the only difference between the BR and the MMORPG is the storm’.
And you fail to explain how the exact same combat and player numbers will be in both the BR and the MMORPG. Because if you can’t explain that the same combat and player numbers that are in the BR will also be in the MMORPG, it means that the storm isn’t the only thing that is in the BR and that will not be found in the MMORPG.
You didn’t address any of that. As a matter of fact you didn’t address anything at all. You just said that I have a flawed logic and that I am ignorant and that you won’t discuss with me anymore, but you didn’t address any of the above.
Player count is what we were just talking about with heaps of code and only a single variable needing to change. You've already specifically said that making this claim is putting words in your mouth, and then you go and make it again.
I mean, the MMO will have a player limit, it just won't be that low. I'm sure you do realize that it is just one variable you need to change in to change how many people could log on to a specific server. The cose to get servers running though... thats not so easy.
You've totally and completely failed at pointing out two things that won't be in the MMO so far.
Want to try again? As a hint, don't bother with the storm as that will almost assuredly make an appearance in the MMO as well.
As it stands right now the hybrid combat is not in the BR. So there’s that. And it might never actually make it into the BR if Intrepid chooses to focus on castle siege or just waits to release the hybrid combat in Alpha 1. So the combat in the BR is not the same as the combat in the MMORPG. Action vs hybrid. Right now BR is only action and you don’t know that it’ll ever have hybrid. So as of right now they are different.
As far as player limit goes you fail to understand that to make a game work with a couple hundred people in one concentrated area (which Intrepid hasn’t successfully shown they can do yet) is very different from thousands of people in one area. So you are wrong to say that “ it is just one variable you need to change in to change how many people could log on to a specific server“. It’s literally not one variable. It’s a monumental change that takes so much work. So the BR and the MMORPG are not the same in terms of player limit. It doesn’t just take turning a knob to make thousands of players be able to successfully play the game in one area. They are different. If they were the same in terms of player limit we would have seen thousands of players on the BR map, but we haven’t so they are different. It’s not that hard to understand.
I'll dumb it down a bit.
The BR has punch.
The MMO will have punch and kick.
Just because the BR doesn't also have kick, that doesn't mean Intrepid are wasting time developing punch for the BR to later on be used in the MMO.
Regardless of how they do it, intrepid need to develop punch.
Now back to not dumbing it down - unless you are going to say any of the individual ability mechanics in the BR will not in some form be inthe MMO, then combat is not an area of the BR that will not be in the MMO.
The player count thing is actually SPECIFIALLY the main reason Apoc exists. They are using it SPECIFICALLY to develop the code for the MMO. So you saying that it is not something that will carry over actually shows a lot - just not about Intrepid.
Threads where we agree feel weird.
The conversation was never about Intrepid wasting time. The conversation was about Dygz saying that the only difference between the BR and the MMORPG is the storm.
You are such a hardcore white knight that you’re trying to defend Intrepid when Intrepid wasn’t even attacked.
Talking to to you two is literally like talking to two brick walls. Have a good one fellas.
Aren’t you the same person who was complaining about not getting updates? And then got mad when people pointed out that we’ve been getting explanations on MMO mechanics, and general timelines for the next stages of testing, and being shown fully completed assets made for the game.
Look, you may as well just duck out until the MMO Alphas and get engaged at a stage you’re more familiar with. Not everyone has the patience to actually witness the nitty gritty and often dull progress of game development, but that’s the majority of what it is. Most people only hear of a game when it’s nearly done, I can understand you might find this situation jarring.
Like those other two already said, there’s nothing in the BR’s general systems that cannot directly transfer for use in the MMO’s general systems besides the storm.
The action style combat can directly transfer, action + tab still obviously requires action combat be tested. Combat testing in APOC will also impact projectile and hitbox calculations in PvE too when players are the targets.
The in-game achievement tracking we see in the daily/weekly quests can directly transfer (granted it will probably be more of a backend system for node development).
The chest looting ensures the loot RNG is pulling intended odds, that’ll be key in repeatable enemy encounters and in regulating rarities of particular items.
Aerial movement is being tested, ground movement is being tested, both directly transferable systems.
Population numbers are just a numbers game, on a baseline they don’t fundamentally change anything about a system.
If you have some counterpoints, then feel free, but I don’t even like BRs and I can clearly see why this is a good method for testing the basics. Less to worry about breaking, easier to make players engage with the systems being tested, more easily identifiable issues due to lack of extraneous features.
Actually, here is the full quote from Dygz.
At no point does he say anything in relation to "the only difference betweenthe BR and MMO". Rather, he specifically states that he thinks almost everything from the BR will be in the MMO.
He even mentions Intrepid not being any further along without the BR, a specific reference to not having wasted time.
Now, I've been looking at this discussion from that specific point of view, as has everyone else I would imagine. You though, it seems you just made up your own perspective with no basis on reality and decided that is where you were going to base your stance on this discussion from.
I do find it funny how you were clmplaining about other people putting words on your mouth though.
I'll end this post by pointing out that there is a reason you have yepuble in almost every thread you insert yourself in to on these forums - and it has jothing to do with other posters...
Same here.
I argue with Dygz all the time, especially on BR stuff, but @vmangman is really missing here. It’s either a language problem or being willfully ignorant.
If I said there was nothing in a hamburger that isn’t also in a cheeseburger I’m not saying they are identical. I’m saying that if you took something away from the cheeseburger (in this case, the cheese) then you have a hamburger.
Dygz is saying that if you took the MMO and then removed the right pieces you’d be left with the BR. The only thing you’d have to add is the storm. Does that work? It’s really not complicated.
The action combat you see in BR = The action combat you will see in the MMORPG but with more abilities. However, this does not mean it will feel the same, and one would have to be mentally challenged to think that. This is in regards to how combat is made; the projectiles, the blueprint, the code, the FX etc.
> confirmed, timestamped:
The only thing that won't transfer to the MMORPG is, indeed, the storm. This is confirmed by Steven as well, and he has said even the storm might be used in some form. There seems to be a misunderstanding about the way things transfer from APOC to the MMORPG. Most of the time, what they are aiming for is to have 100% of it to transfer over, but since it is an MMORPG, there are some tweaks to be made. Tho I agree, It would make things a lot clearer if we saw how exactly the transition works.
I see many people keep mentioning Steven's quote regarding hybrid combat, and in the case that it feels, they will go with tab + AoE abilities. People should keep in mind these three things;
1 - They will go with tab IF and only IF the hybrid is not fun. They have multiple hybrid combat systems being internally tested, and from what Steven has said, the feedback has been good. We will see some form of it ready in Alpha 1.
2 - They already know tab target since it's an established system and you pretty much need basic math to have it in the game; extremely easy to implement. The reason why APOC became so important in the first place was to focus on combat. ''action combat'' is the combat - do note that anything that doesn't include locking into a target is considered ''action'' by Steven (confirmed in his Q&A with Jahlon).
3 - It is a highly unlikely scenario and in the 1% chance that Steven does, in fact, scraps action combat, a considerable amount of existing and potential players are gone. This will be a living, breathing world with PvP being ever-present: therefore, fun and engaging combat is crucial, otherwise, it can not compete with other sandbox open-world MMORPGs in development with a combat system from a bygone age. And Steven knows that.
Then again Steven has said many things and the whole thing is in shambles now. In the end, we might end up with a product that isn't even close to what has been promised..since let's be honest..It is way too ambitious for an indie studio...Tho they did hire some really talented people and there's the endless finance resource that is Steven soooo maybe?..I dunno. Anyway, I hope what I typed above, made things a little clearer.