WoW killer finally here guys.......

Well first of all have to give credit to Blizzard for doing a finde job of killing itself with all its development decisions if it was not for that game would still be way over ten million subs.

But has it turns out a game has finally come that will pound the last nails on the coffin. RIP

Drumroll PLS......................................

Classic WoW got released and now has server popualtion fo 4.4 million world wide. (just bear with me) So right now people are playing a game with no instant que. A game that has 40 man raids to look forward too which makes for larger guilds. Game were there is actual sense of a community.
Game were dungeoun design like Strathholme and Black Rock Caverns dwarve the current content in almost evey aspect. In short they are simply playing a better vidoe game.


That being the case it is going to be dificult to go back to retail WoW still a good game but worst than WoW classic so players will be taking a step down to play current WoW. Some how Old content is better than New content. Unreal.

Now WoW classic is finite so when most of player base get past Naxxramus then they will be looking to play an MMO with no instant que 40 man raids and good community. Which is were Ashes of Creation could step in if they come out with playable version sooner than latter.

Just to be clear Blizzard is the WoW killer cause there is no way to convince them to get rid of instant que or put 40 man raids back in game. As far they are concerned they are the experts and have the billions to prove it. Think it got to big to care.

Comments

  • just watch.
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  • I guess it comes down to what you're looking for. I'm looking for the sandbox features, so wouldn't even consider WoW a backup option or alternative to AoC.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Braver of Worlds
    Total characters are 4 mil, yes. But there are currently under 850 000 active players (that have logged in during the last 30 days
  • GilgameshGilgamesh Member, Braver of Worlds
    But Isn't wow kinda already dead, can it be killed twice?
  • RokoRoko Member, Braver of Worlds
    how can something be kinda dead?, you either are dead or you're not.
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    Gilgamesh wrote: »
    But Isn't wow kinda already dead, can it be killed twice?

    It has definitely been on a decline for awhile but that was due to Blizzard's own mistakes than the rise of a challenging mmorpg. Modern WoW is in a very weird place right now with plenty of ups and downs. Blizzard tried some new things at the beginning of the latest expansion that REALLY didn't work and as a result they've had to spend the majority of the expansion fixing things instead of focusing on new exciting content.
  • Roko wrote: »
    how can something be kinda dead?, you either are dead or you're not.

    Have you ever heard of shroedingers cat?
    What about someone who got resuscitated, but who will never awaken from the coma and is kept alive by machinery?
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  • RokoRoko Member, Braver of Worlds
    I have heard about Schrodinger's cat. and yeah if you can't verify you can't know whether something is dead or alive, but that can't be applied to wow, we can see people still playing and the servers are running.

    the resuscitation is a more applicable case here. But in that case the revived person would be either alive or undead which still would not be dead.
    2PXdm1m
  • Roko wrote: »
    I have heard about Schrodinger's cat. and yeah if you can't verify you can't know whether something is dead or alive, but that can't be applied to wow, we can see people still playing and the servers are running.

    the resuscitation is a more applicable case here. But in that case the revived person would be either alive or undead which still would not be dead.

    Okay, i can see where you are comjng from.
    A better fitting anology would be someone bleeding out and trying to staunch the bleeding.
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  • RokoRoko Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited January 24
    I totally agree with that. except they are trying to staunch the bleeding by repeatedly stabbing it.
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  • Roko wrote: »
    I totally agree with that. except they are trying to staunch the bleeding by repeatedly stabbing it.

    More like hacking off their limbs to try and conserve the bloodflow.
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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    Roko wrote: »
    I totally agree with that. except they are trying to staunch the bleeding by repeatedly stabbing it.
    Well, you pull out the knife and start bleeding so push it back in to cork it.

    Or stab it with a white-hot knife, that’ll cauterize it.

    When you stitch a wound, you’re repeatedly stabbing it with a needle.

    Don’t discount medicinal stabbing!
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  • leonerdoleonerdo Member, Settler
    edited January 25
    I don't think anything can kill WoW as long as it keeps being updated, but it has been on shaky grounds recently. And I'd argue that FFXIV has been the one receiving most of the WoW refugees. FFXIV's sub numbers have risen a lot in the last 2 years, and it offers a very similar themepark experience (a good bunch of story and leveling, followed by end-game raids and lots of grindy side-content).

    In any case, Ashes of Creation will barely even dent WoW's popularity. Because while AoC may be a great MMO, it is not in the same vein as WoW, since AoC will focus primarily on PvP and open-world content. I'm even confident enough to say, 2 years before release, that AoC will not have good raids or story content. They have to fill a LOT of different zones with content, since they want players to spread out and settle into competing regions. So it's safe to say that most of it will not be good enough content to compete with WoW's meticulously designed raids and grand story lines. Anyone who wants that kind of familiar, distilled, linear content will never leave WoW for AoC.

    But hopefully AoC can thrive in a different niche, offering more MMO strengths rather than RPG ones.
  • hartwellhartwell Member, Braver of Worlds
    WoW targets mostly instanced PvE players and instanced PvP players. They're bunkered into those two areas of content. I don't even know if AoC really is targeting those players.
  • JoselineJoseline Member
    edited January 31
    MMOs dont die
    ..if theyve manage to stay around for 3~5 years they will sruvive decades. Even the first MMOs released in the 20th century are still around doing just fine
    There is no such thing as a "MMO Killer" because a MMOs community stays true to its game until the community (not the game) dies out
    There are MMOs around with less than 50k active players that are still being developed, doing just fine

    This is one of the reasons why its so hard for new MMOs to actually get started, you need to target the new generations, not the old ones. Older generations mostly found their game and dont play anymore. Yes there are exceptions, but the 100 exceptions creeping around this forum are nothing compare to the thousands that dont care about AoC and stick to their old game

    WoW Classic isnt a WoW killer, if its true that there are still 850k active players then WoW is far, far away from death. WoW Classic is a new game thats intresting for people that lost track of WoW retail or just want to know what this MMO giant is about, its not a WoW killer, not even close

    As for AoC, it will be intresting to see how this one will evolve. As I mentioned, MMOs dont die. If you want to have a succefull MMO you gotta find new players, "recycling" old ones wont get you a big community
    Im intrested to see how Sub2Play will play out too. Newer generations of players dont like it. S2P is an outdated model and a lot of people will move on the moment they see the model, not even bothering a single glance on the actual game
    It will definetly be intresting to see how this one will play out
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    @Joseline mmos absolutely DO die when the developers shut down the servers, something that happens more than you would think. City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa, Warhammer Online, Wildstar, all shut down. And that's not even counting games like Everquest Next that don't even make it out of development.

    On the other hand you are right that, in the case of WoW at least, it will stay alive as long as people keep playing it. Even if Blizzard shut down their official servers, there are so many private WoW servers that it will likely survive past that point.
  • JoselineJoseline Member
    edited January 31
    @Wandering Mist None of those lived longer than 5 years with the exception of the first one which from my limited research isnt dead but re released later under almost the same name with same content
    There was also Cabal 2 which shut down 3 years later and Wonderking being shut down in the same year as its release. 2 Games I took intrest in, there sure are many more we never heard of or just forgot about (or dont want to know about such as Bless)

    I didnt say that no MMO dies, I said the ones that manage to take ground dont die that easily. Such as BnS, Cabal Online, Elsword, BDO, WoW, FF14, GW, etc
    Some of those have only 50k or less active players and are still being developed actively

    What I basically wanted to say is that WoW doesnt just die because of another game, it never will
    I mightve slightly exaggerated in my first post, mb
  • He said "degenerals"..../offended!
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    @Joseline mmos absolutely DO die when the developers shut down the servers, something that happens more than you would think. City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa, Warhammer Online, Wildstar, all shut down. And that's not even counting games like Everquest Next that don't even make it out of development.
    City of Heroes was resurrected by necromancers and its unholy spectral form is floating around, haunting private servers (and it’s still pretty fun).
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  • noaaninoaani Member
    edited February 2
    Joseline wrote: »
    MMOs dont die
    ..if theyve manage to stay around for 3~5 years they will sruvive decades.
    City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa, Warhammer Online, Wildstar, all shut down.
    Joseline wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist None of those lived longer than 5 years with the exception of the first one which from my limited research isnt dead but re released later under almost the same name with same content
    Your original statement was 3 to 5 years, which all but one of the listed MMO's met.

    CoH was live 9 years 7 months.
    WAR was live 5 years 3 months.
    Wildstar was live 4 years 3 months.
    Tabula Rasa was live 16 months.

    What's interesting in the context of this discussion is more what it was that killed these specific MMO's rather than the fact that they died after a having been live for a while, and in the case of some of them, having far larger paying playerbase to keep the game live for years to come.

    WAR is a perfect example of this, it closed specifically because Mythic Entertainment were unable to renew their licensing agreement with Games Workshop. While that isn't something that will have an impact on WoW (not in any foreseeable way, at least), it does point out that MMO's often die for reasons other than lack of players, or a better MMO coming along.

    There are also other games that have closed specifically because the publisher of said game thought that if they closed that game, all the players would move over to another game within that publishers stable, meaning they don't need to maintain the first game, but still have that player and get their money.

    Edit; while I'm not going to state outright any games that fit the above, I will point out that three of the MMO's listed by Wondering Mist were from the same publisher, a publisher that currently has 6 live MMO's, and another 4 in development.
  • It seems to be a common trend in many mmos where the game is released and initially everything is good but developers try to reinvent the wheel and end up breaking things that were previously fine. Credit to Wow for at least giving folks the classic version to play.

    Developers need to understand that MMOs are a living thing and that sure they need to evolve and grow over time but if it aint broke then don't fix it.
  • consultantconsultant Member
    edited February 3
    spreadicus wrote: »
    It seems to be a common trend in many mmos where the game is released and initially everything is good but developers try to reinvent the wheel and end up breaking things that were previously fine. Credit to Wow for at least giving folks the classic version to play.

    Developers need to understand that MMOs are a living thing and that sure they need to evolve and grow over time but if it aint broke then don't fix it.

    Pretty sure WoW knows what there huge mistakes are there are ton of content creators telling them every day were they went wrong but will not fix them.. WoWs consistent and persistent behavior is chasing subsriptions. Actually claim the opposite actions say something else.

    WoW is a great game and I really enjoyed it. Personally just had to many disagreements with the devs in that game. That does not take away from all that they have done and well it is still a really good game.

    Justed wanted to point out that after playing wow classic a game without all their huge mistakes might be hard for people to go back to retail WoW. Going from strong well knit communities to toxic servers is a day and night expereince. They have implemented anit-toxic mechanism since i stopped playing. Not sure how efffective it is going to be after years of being toxic. There were some servers that were not toxic but toxic servers were the trend when I was playing.

    Hope them the best.
  • I don't think AoC will appeal to a lot of WoW players, I think progression will take more time and effort than a lot of people are willing to put into a game. I hope that is true.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    Hydrilla wrote: »
    I don't think AoC will appeal to a lot of WoW players, I think progression will take more time and effort than a lot of people are willing to put into a game. I hope that is true.

    same here. I always loved long MMOs
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Nagash wrote: »
    Hydrilla wrote: »
    I don't think AoC will appeal to a lot of WoW players, I think progression will take more time and effort than a lot of people are willing to put into a game. I hope that is true.

    same here. I always loved long MMOs

    I think that we will have to differentiate between activision woow players and blizzard wow players here guys. Classic/tBC/WotLK players all played with long progression times after all.
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  • jinxthegamerjinxthegamer Member
    edited February 9
    WoW Vanilla was great not because of 40 man raids or lack of instant queue but because the game had a lot of RPG systems besides raids which added depth to the game. In MMORPG, most of the playtime is put into character development, experiencing the world of the game and story where raids are only one of the cherries on top of the cake.
    Retail WoW was stripped down to the minimum and oversimplified in every possible way to focus on streamlining every process in the game to allow people to gear up their main chars or alts as fast as it is possible to attend the raid. Right now in Retail WoW the only thing which matter is to push yet another raid and move on to the next raid or expansion to generate as much money as they can.

    While AoC might give us some depth and meaningfulness it still can fail in many ways especially since Steven likes ArchAge way too much and this bad MMO can influence his decisions too much.
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  • If they can make it work on average PCs. I have by no means a potato, but the battle royale mode was completly unplayable due to low frame rate.

    One of the big attractions of WoW when it came out was that it had far lower performance requirements than EQ2, Asheron's Call and Age of Conan, so it could be played by far more people.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    tiltowait wrote: »
    If they can make it work on average PCs. I have by no means a potato, but the battle royale mode was completly unplayable due to low frame rate.

    One of the big attractions of WoW when it came out was that it had far lower performance requirements than EQ2, Asheron's Call and Age of Conan, so it could be played by far more people.

    It's normal for a early alpha build to run poorly as the developers haven't had time to optimise it properly. One thing to note about WoW is that it is incredibly CPU heavy and not particularly well optimised for higher end PCs. Yes the minimum requirements are quite low compared to other mmorpgs, but that's not necessarily a good thing.
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