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WoW killer finally here guys.......

2

Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Nagash wrote: »
    I can see blizzard crashing in the next few years

    So can I.

    I can see all the major game studios crashing, to be honest. They need to start to realize that of all their stakeholders, their loyal customers are more important than their shareholders.

    My prediction is that in 8 years, the only major game studios still around are the ones that have made this realization.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    noaani wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    I can see blizzard crashing in the next few years

    So can I.

    I can see all the major game studios crashing, to be honest. They need to start to realize that of all their stakeholders, their loyal customers are more important than their shareholders.

    My prediction is that in 8 years, the only major game studios still around are the ones that have made this realization.

    I doubt it will happen any time soon to be honest. Despite all their fuckups, the AAA games companies still make money on their games, usually from people who are either oblivious or don't care about what is happening in the industry. The various sports games (fifa, NBA Madden, etc) release practically the same game every single year, chocked full of microtransactions and loot box mechanics, and yet they always make a profit.

    The majority of consumers don't really care about the company behind the games they play.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • MeowsedMeowsed Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited February 2020
    I think AAA developers and publishers have a lot of leeway actually. As long as they can make money off of sub-par cash-cows (sports games, mobile games, content patches for old games, with MTX in most of them) they'll stay afloat financially. At the same time, they only have to release a couple of new, actually great games (Star Wards Jedi Fallen Order and Overwatch, for example) to keep the playerbase happy and their brand strong. The bad games make money, the good games keep people coming back for more.

    And this might be a controversial opinion, but I think a big part of the problem is just that people aren't willing to pay more for better games. A lot of players are happy with replaying old games, or they're happy with F2P games-as-a-service (I am in this group), funded by whales and MTX. Good, sub-fee MMOs are basically a top-shelf product. And like all luxury products they cost more, are only slightly better, have a more niche clientele, and aren't as common. The majority of consumers and producers will focus on lower-grade products. So until the majority of gamers can afford to pay luxury prices, I think we'll continue to see publishers cutting corners, pushing out half-baked content to keep the masses occupied, while hunting for the whales with MTX and premium features.

    All of that might sound a little cynical, but I think it's actually not bad. There are still diamonds in the rough. And I think it's probably better overall to have lots of half-decent games, than for developers to put all their time and money into fewer, better games. That's how most of society works anyways: good enough is good enough 90% of the time, and greatness is rare.
    Mega troll frmr1cq9w89im2.jpg
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    The majority of consumers don't really care about the company behind the games they play.
    It won't be the consumers that bail on those games, it will be the shareholders.

    Shareholders don't wait until a company stops making money before they bail, they bail when they think that may happen in the future (such as when your customers openly protest).

    Add to that the inevitable outcome of lootboxes (the EU will eventually sue major studios for actual billions, and lootbox mechanics will be removed from all games, lowering profits), and it's fairly easy to see how it *could* happen.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    noaani wrote: »
    The majority of consumers don't really care about the company behind the games they play.
    It won't be the consumers that bail on those games, it will be the shareholders.

    Shareholders don't wait until a company stops making money before they bail, they bail when they think that may happen in the future (such as when your customers openly protest).

    Add to that the inevitable outcome of lootboxes (the EU will eventually sue major studios for actual billions, and lootbox mechanics will be removed from all games, lowering profits), and it's fairly easy to see how it *could* happen.

    look at EA after the backlash from StarWars battlefield 2 it does prove that we do have some sway over game companies
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • "What is dead may never die"
  • WoW has still good position in MMORPG markets even the BfA has it flaws. Classic is popular and it most likely will have a positive influence to future retail expansions. In addition, the next Shadowlands expansion looks kind of promising and many fans are excited about it. So, it is kind of hard to see Blizzard get killed anytime soon tbh. I would be much more concerned about AoC, because with this development pace and side tracks it will be dead before born. We can easily see at least two WoW expansions before AoC goes live.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    while the games they make are good I just don't trust the devs
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Nagash wrote: »
    while the games they make are good I just don't trust the devs

    Why you don't trust the devs? And what harm they can actually done?

    It is easy to believe that we will see a new WoW expansion during Q4 in this year. Blizzard has produced new content with steady pace over 15 years now and we will see this same trend continuing also in near future. It also look likes the devs are listening fans and testers more than ever and they react faster to problems than earlier. Of course there has been this problem with BfA having a good amount of bad features and general flaws which needs some fixing. Anyhow, I have always trusted the company even I have partly disagreed with the course of the development and necessity of some implemented mechanics. The story and lore is always polished triple AAA class and almost only that makes the game at least worth to play for casual fun or as a filler. I personally trust that we will get a solid next expansion from where many people finds out something interesting and pleasant activities to accomplish. Player- and fanbase is still solid and it will hold easily, partly thanks to classic, and even it is hard to see Blizzard back in the numbers of their best years, still it would be easy to argue against claims that WoW is going down or getting killed by any other game/company.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ferryman wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    while the games they make are good I just don't trust the devs

    Why you don't trust the devs? And what harm they can actually done?

    It is easy to believe that we will see a new WoW expansion during Q4 in this year. Blizzard has produced new content with steady pace over 15 years now and we will see this same trend continuing also in near future. It also look likes the devs are listening fans and testers more than ever and they react faster to problems than earlier. Of course there has been this problem with BfA having a good amount of bad features and general flaws which needs some fixing. Anyhow, I have always trusted the company even I have partly disagreed with the course of the development and necessity of some implemented mechanics. The story and lore is always polished triple AAA class and almost only that makes the game at least worth to play for casual fun or as a filler. I personally trust that we will get a solid next expansion from where many people finds out something interesting and pleasant activities to accomplish. Player- and fanbase is still solid and it will hold easily, partly thanks to classic, and even it is hard to see Blizzard back in the numbers of their best years, still it would be easy to argue against claims that WoW is going down or getting killed by any other game/company.

    On the one hand I agree with you, but then I see the shit they pulled with Warcraft 3 reforged and I have my doubts.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited March 2020
    Nagash wrote: »
    while the games they make are good I just don't trust the devs

    This may not come as a surprise to people, but I disagree.

    The last good game Blizzard made was Warcraft 3.

    Their games have polish, possibly more so than any other game developer, but I don't consider them good games by any other metric.

    Polish, however, does fool an awful lot of people in to thinking a thing is good. McDonalds is another good example of this.
  • SarevokSarevok Member
    edited March 2020
    I'd probably go back to WoW if they upgraded their graphics to a new engine that looked great and played smoothly. I left in 2011, haven't been back except for a week on the new expansions to see what's changed and if it's worth coming back to. Although, I did try to play Classic and lost to the queue boss... Haven't played a good MMO since Black Desert Online but left that Korean slot machine in 2017.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Sarevok wrote: »
    I'd probably go back to WoW if they upgraded their graphics to a new engine that looked great and played smoothly. I left in 2011, haven't been back except for a week on the new expansions to see what's changed and if it's worth coming back to. Although, I did try to play Classic and lost to the queue boss... Haven't played a good MMO since Black Desert Online but left that Korean slot machine in 2017.

    That is unlikely to happen since WoW uses it's own custom game engine. They have added more textures to the game over time but nothing more than that. It's a shame too because this is what WoW would look like in Unreal Engine 4:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMQ2ZgIayl8

    It looks incredible.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited March 2020
    ferryman wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    while the games they make are good I just don't trust the devs

    Why you don't trust the devs? And what harm they can actually done?

    It is easy to believe that we will see a new WoW expansion during Q4 in this year. Blizzard has produced new content with steady pace over 15 years now and we will see this same trend continuing also in near future. It also look likes the devs are listening fans and testers more than ever and they react faster to problems than earlier. Of course there has been this problem with BfA having a good amount of bad features and general flaws which needs some fixing. Anyhow, I have always trusted the company even I have partly disagreed with the course of the development and necessity of some implemented mechanics. The story and lore is always polished triple AAA class and almost only that makes the game at least worth to play for casual fun or as a filler. I personally trust that we will get a solid next expansion from where many people finds out something interesting and pleasant activities to accomplish. Player- and fanbase is still solid and it will hold easily, partly thanks to classic, and even it is hard to see Blizzard back in the numbers of their best years, still it would be easy to argue against claims that WoW is going down or getting killed by any other game/company.

    By devs, I meant to say Activision blizzard not the people working on the games themselves. as for why well in the past few years they have
    • slowly reduced the quality of WoW expansions
    • The whole blitzchung mess
    • WC 3 reforged
    • diablo immortal
    • diablo 3s launch
    • cancelling heroes of the storm tournament
    • Overwatch loot boxes

    just to name a few
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Balrog21Balrog21 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I see WOW in a mess atm....I haven't played since Cata or will I ever again. I've watched numerous vids and such on the state of WOW and maybe they can save themselves with the new expansion, but I doubt it. They are suffering from the 'everyone gets a trophy syndrome' and it's core players REALLY don't like it from what I've seen and read.
    BUT...
    What I think most people forget about WOW is that it already had a HUGE fan base before the MMO came out. It already had a strong core base well before launch. This along with being at the right place at the right time helped spurn the mega giant we know today.
    I'm guessing most of who still play is part of that fan base. I think the heart and driving force of WOW got it's heart ripped out when the creators left for greener pastures. You can definitely tell WOW had a different air about these days.
    Will WOW die? Not in the near future, but boy are those peeps who run the company trying very hard to push it off the cliff.
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    edited March 2020
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ferryman wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript

    Err... How can you say that WoW monthly subs have doubled and then 2 sentences later say that you couldn't find exact information of current subs?
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • ferryman wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript

    Err... How can you say that WoW monthly subs have doubled and then 2 sentences later say that you couldn't find exact information of current subs?

    Because Blizzard has told that those have doubled, but they have not told what was the starting point. ;-)
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ferryman wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript

    is that before or after they fired 800 employees?
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    edited March 2020
    Nagash wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript

    is that before or after they fired 800 employees?

    The massive Activision, Blizzard and King layoffs started during Q1 2019 mainly because missed expectations of year 2018 and lower expectations for year 2019 in specific areas. At least this is one reason what they have announced. Layoffs hit mainly for non gaming development departments like esports and publishing. However, layoffs were not necessary because of the bad results from 2018, those were about ghange in company strategy.

    Monthly subcription is only one income and the company makes also a huge amount of money from different character services and cashshop. Therefore the financial situation of Blizzard is really good and on a solid base, so there is no reason to shutdown a profitable business. Moreover, all these delays and cancellations in MMORPG genre only strenghten WoWs position, as also other MMORPGs out there.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ferryman wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript

    is that before or after they fired 800 employees?

    The massive Activision, Blizzard and King layoffs started during Q1 2019 mainly because missed expectations of year 2018 and lower expectations for year 2019 in specific areas. At least this is one reason what they have announced. Layoffs hit mainly for non gaming development departments like esports and publishing. However, layoffs were not necessary because of the bad results from 2018, those were about ghange in company strategy.

    Monthly subcription is only one income and the company makes also a huge amount of money from different character services and cashshop. Therefore the financial situation of Blizzard is really good and on a solid base, so there is no reason to shutdown a profitable business. Moreover, all these delays and cancellations in MMORPG genre only strenghten WoWs position, as also other MMORPGs out there.

    At the end of the day we are working with limited information here so it's all speculation. I just find it odd that the company will proclaim the highest financial growth that they've had in years, then 1 week later sack off 800 employees.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ferryman wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript

    is that before or after they fired 800 employees?

    The massive Activision, Blizzard and King layoffs started during Q1 2019 mainly because missed expectations of year 2018 and lower expectations for year 2019 in specific areas. At least this is one reason what they have announced. Layoffs hit mainly for non gaming development departments like esports and publishing. However, layoffs were not necessary because of the bad results from 2018, those were about ghange in company strategy.

    Monthly subcription is only one income and the company makes also a huge amount of money from different character services and cashshop. Therefore the financial situation of Blizzard is really good and on a solid base, so there is no reason to shutdown a profitable business. Moreover, all these delays and cancellations in MMORPG genre only strenghten WoWs position, as also other MMORPGs out there.

    At the end of the day we are working with limited information here so it's all speculation. I just find it odd that the company will proclaim the highest financial growth that they've had in years, then 1 week later sack off 800 employees.

    that's my point as well
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • MeowsedMeowsed Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Sarevok wrote: »
    I'd probably go back to WoW if they upgraded their graphics to a new engine that looked great and played smoothly. I left in 2011, haven't been back except for a week on the new expansions to see what's changed and if it's worth coming back to. Although, I did try to play Classic and lost to the queue boss... Haven't played a good MMO since Black Desert Online but left that Korean slot machine in 2017.

    That is unlikely to happen since WoW uses it's own custom game engine. They have added more textures to the game over time but nothing more than that. It's a shame too because this is what WoW would look like in Unreal Engine 4:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMQ2ZgIayl8

    It looks incredible.

    Bvf2vFg.png
    Mega troll frmr1cq9w89im2.jpg
  • ferryman wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript

    is that before or after they fired 800 employees?

    The massive Activision, Blizzard and King layoffs started during Q1 2019 mainly because missed expectations of year 2018 and lower expectations for year 2019 in specific areas. At least this is one reason what they have announced. Layoffs hit mainly for non gaming development departments like esports and publishing. However, layoffs were not necessary because of the bad results from 2018, those were about ghange in company strategy.

    Monthly subcription is only one income and the company makes also a huge amount of money from different character services and cashshop. Therefore the financial situation of Blizzard is really good and on a solid base, so there is no reason to shutdown a profitable business. Moreover, all these delays and cancellations in MMORPG genre only strenghten WoWs position, as also other MMORPGs out there.

    At the end of the day we are working with limited information here so it's all speculation. I just find it odd that the company will proclaim the highest financial growth that they've had in years, then 1 week later sack off 800 employees.

    Well not that much speculation if people would do some research and read news. ;-)

    Activation Blizzard achieved a record result in year 2018 so it is understandable if people are confused why they still decided to layoff 800 employees. I have found few reasons for this: Fusion, Projects, Unprofitable business and greed.

    When Activision, Blizzard and King have merged that have created one on the other tasks and some of those multiple positions are not necesserily anymore needed. The work can also be very project oriented which causes problems when a certain project ends. After the end of the project there is not automatically offer new tasks for everyone and perhaps in new projects different kind area of experties are needed than earlier. Also it seams that the management was unsatisfied with the results of certain non-game-development departments. And like in every business it is almost everytime about money and the original sin of humankind, greed. Investors expects profit and even more profit.

    It would be easy to argue that the 800 people layoffs are some kind of mix of all these reasons and maybe easily there is something more involved as well. I understand that fusions can cause these kind of problems and project work can be temporary and not so secured. What I do not personally understand is greed, if you already get a piles of money why on earth you need to get few piles more in trade of someone's else missery.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ferryman wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    @Wandering Mist Yeah it was a shame, I really liked the original Warcraft3, but I have not been so keen to play the reforged version.

    @Nagash Well fair enough if we think the company in general. However, I referred only to WoW.

    WoW has over doubled montly subs from Q2 2019 to Q4 2019, and Classic has been obviously the main reason for this. However, some people who came back for classic are later got back also to retail, and hey why not, because they share the montly subscription. I could not find any exact information of current subs, but most likely that is confidental anyway. Blizzard has announced that WoW, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch and Hearthstone have together over 32M montly subs and maybe that gives some perspective of the situation.

    Blizzard Entertaiment's Q4 2019 Segment Results:
    • Net Revenues = 595M$
    • Operating Income = 260M$ (44% operating margin)

    Now this does not include Activision which revenue is almost three times bigger, so I would say these studios are doing a pretty good result at the moment and it is a very hard to see any killshots and dives anytime soon. ;-)

    https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/activision-blizzard-q4-2019-results-transcript

    is that before or after they fired 800 employees?

    The massive Activision, Blizzard and King layoffs started during Q1 2019 mainly because missed expectations of year 2018 and lower expectations for year 2019 in specific areas. At least this is one reason what they have announced. Layoffs hit mainly for non gaming development departments like esports and publishing. However, layoffs were not necessary because of the bad results from 2018, those were about ghange in company strategy.

    Monthly subcription is only one income and the company makes also a huge amount of money from different character services and cashshop. Therefore the financial situation of Blizzard is really good and on a solid base, so there is no reason to shutdown a profitable business. Moreover, all these delays and cancellations in MMORPG genre only strenghten WoWs position, as also other MMORPGs out there.

    At the end of the day we are working with limited information here so it's all speculation. I just find it odd that the company will proclaim the highest financial growth that they've had in years, then 1 week later sack off 800 employees.

    Well not that much speculation if people would do some research and read news. ;-)

    Activation Blizzard achieved a record result in year 2018 so it is understandable if people are confused why they still decided to layoff 800 employees. I have found few reasons for this: Fusion, Projects, Unprofitable business and greed.

    When Activision, Blizzard and King have merged that have created one on the other tasks and some of those multiple positions are not necesserily anymore needed. The work can also be very project oriented which causes problems when a certain project ends. After the end of the project there is not automatically offer new tasks for everyone and perhaps in new projects different kind area of experties are needed than earlier. Also it seams that the management was unsatisfied with the results of certain non-game-development departments. And like in every business it is almost everytime about money and the original sin of humankind, greed. Investors expects profit and even more profit.

    It would be easy to argue that the 800 people layoffs are some kind of mix of all these reasons and maybe easily there is something more involved as well. I understand that fusions can cause these kind of problems and project work can be temporary and not so secured. What I do not personally understand is greed, if you already get a piles of money why on earth you need to get few piles more in trade of someone's else missery.

    TLDR The fallacy of exponential growth that plagues the AAA games industry.
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  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    edited March 2020
    Well it can be, I do not know. I do not see this only a problem in gaming industry, more like business in general. I have personally tried to push aside what gaming companies are doing internally and focusing more on the actual products as a customer. I have been satisfied to the whole Warcraft series (1, 2, 3, WoW), The Lost Vikings, Diablo 2 and maybe there was a Bloodbowl game too if I remember right. Anyhow, I have enjoyed a lot from their products and I trust them to produce quality games also in future. Of course there has been some bad moments, but which gaming companies has not.

    EDIT: And I am talking about Blizzard Entertainment here, I have not played any Activision or King games.
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  • TanerlornTanerlorn Member, Pioneer
    Even when WoW was released, I saw it as a casual game. And that's fine because the devs expressly said it was. It was meant to simplify all aspects of MMOs so that they would be easier to get into. The problem came when every other MMO chose to use WoW as the standard and not the casualised spin off of the genre it actually was. So MMOs went towards the Theme Park (which I hate.) and not Sandbox or PvP like the games I was playing at the time. (DAoC and Star Wars: Galaxies.) Ashes could potentially be the WoW killer for real. Due to having it's own identity and a compelling game loop in the node system that is easy for the casuals to clock onto. But it might not. WoW even in it's current state is a dopamine treadmill that is compelling to it's core audience. I think Ashes will at least be a success but it remains to be seen if it manages to unhook the Dopamine drips from the WoW audience.
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    edited March 2020
    Ashes of Creation is not automatically appealing for WoW players or to any other MMORPG players. Ashes will be (if released ever) more like one option side by side with other MMORPGs. It is a very hard to see that AoC can have a dramatic effect to the Big ones like WoW, ESO or FF14. IS has enough work to change their visions and plans to something concrete and redeem all the expectations, release one day and keep the game alive for years.
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ferryman wrote: »
    Ashes of Creation is not automatically appealing for WoW players or to any other MMORPG players. Ashes will be (if released ever) more like one option side by side with other MMORPGs. It is a very hard to see that AoC can have a dramatic effect to the Big ones like WoW, ESO or FF14. IS has enough work to change their visions and plans to something concrete and redeem all the expectations, release one day and keep the game alive for years.

    While I agree that WoW and Ashes have different demographics, I will always believe that good products will sell no matter what. If the game is good enough people will come play it even if they don't usually like sandbox mmorpgs.
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  • ferryman wrote: »
    Ashes of Creation is not automatically appealing for WoW players or to any other MMORPG players. Ashes will be (if released ever) more like one option side by side with other MMORPGs. It is a very hard to see that AoC can have a dramatic effect to the Big ones like WoW, ESO or FF14. IS has enough work to change their visions and plans to something concrete and redeem all the expectations, release one day and keep the game alive for years.

    While I agree that WoW and Ashes have different demographics, I will always believe that good products will sell no matter what. If the game is good enough people will come play it even if they don't usually like sandbox mmorpgs.

    That is true.

    If we think of the phrase "WoW killer", it is has an over ten years history and it is totally hackneyed notion within these years. Almost every new MMORPG is predicted to be a new WoW killer so it is getting quite annoying utterance tbh. I do not understand why any new MMORPG should aim to be a new WoW killer? And why people even care? Perhaps WoW is already displaced by FF14 or at least was before release of WoW Classic.

    Because of BfA Blizzard sunk deep, but with Classic and upcoming Shadowlands they have turn the course up again. We are also (most likely) going to see TBC Classic and retail expansions which are taking influence from Classic and other old expansions. I guess Blizzard has finally understood that there is no reason to change something which is working already. Blizzard has tried too hard to implement new mechanics which have been away from the actual content. I really hope that Blizzard takes the step back with mechanics and really focus on the playable content.
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