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VS Amazon's New World
grumple
Member
Cheers to you all,
this discussion is about what distinguishes AoC from New World (NW) and how to capitalize on the fact that both these promising newcomers to the genre release in a relatively narrow time frame.
Here's my view on it (obviously much in favor of AoC):
First of all, AoC is, as the name suggests, about creation. NW on the other hand is about destruction: the very first text on their main page asks what you will do in "a land hell-bent on your destruction" and the whole trailer is about "Fighting the World".
Second, AoC is created by a team of MMO enthusiasts who started the whole thing in order to make a game they always wished for. NW was instead initiated by a billion dollar company founded by a man selling books because of their good storability properties instead of his love for books - the game's development is therefore likely based on strategic considerations rather than passion.
For these (and other) reasons the two games speak to very different audiences. NW might have more polished graphics, due to higher funding, maybe a great action combat system due to their whole focus on combat. AoC on the other hand has the whole node systems, where only one out of four nodes is combat based, the economics will most likely be more complex and I'd suppose that because of the passion aspect the community will be way more involved and the role playing community will likely be more present.
I'd suggest to deliberately focus on the audience that tend towards AoC, who may even be repulsed by the sheer brutality with which NW boasts, and give players the opportunity to indulge in trading, shop keeping, farming and whatsoever. Of course a good combat system is important and might be a dealbreaker for some, hence it should not be neglected (and it obviously isn't
). But I also think that it will pay off even better to focus on the core systems that differentiate AoC from NW - and these are mainly creation based.
I'm looking forward to your opinions on this!
PS: There's some more reasons I prefer AoC over NW, like NW's guilds being called "companies" as if the games title wouldn't remind you enough of Huxley's Brave New World; but these points are probably off topic here.
this discussion is about what distinguishes AoC from New World (NW) and how to capitalize on the fact that both these promising newcomers to the genre release in a relatively narrow time frame.
Here's my view on it (obviously much in favor of AoC):
First of all, AoC is, as the name suggests, about creation. NW on the other hand is about destruction: the very first text on their main page asks what you will do in "a land hell-bent on your destruction" and the whole trailer is about "Fighting the World".
Second, AoC is created by a team of MMO enthusiasts who started the whole thing in order to make a game they always wished for. NW was instead initiated by a billion dollar company founded by a man selling books because of their good storability properties instead of his love for books - the game's development is therefore likely based on strategic considerations rather than passion.
For these (and other) reasons the two games speak to very different audiences. NW might have more polished graphics, due to higher funding, maybe a great action combat system due to their whole focus on combat. AoC on the other hand has the whole node systems, where only one out of four nodes is combat based, the economics will most likely be more complex and I'd suppose that because of the passion aspect the community will be way more involved and the role playing community will likely be more present.
I'd suggest to deliberately focus on the audience that tend towards AoC, who may even be repulsed by the sheer brutality with which NW boasts, and give players the opportunity to indulge in trading, shop keeping, farming and whatsoever. Of course a good combat system is important and might be a dealbreaker for some, hence it should not be neglected (and it obviously isn't
). But I also think that it will pay off even better to focus on the core systems that differentiate AoC from NW - and these are mainly creation based.I'm looking forward to your opinions on this!
PS: There's some more reasons I prefer AoC over NW, like NW's guilds being called "companies" as if the games title wouldn't remind you enough of Huxley's Brave New World; but these points are probably off topic here.
3
Comments
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-01-18-player-killing-created-a-toxic-environment-in-amazon-mmo-new-world-so-now-the-developer-has-added-battles-by-appointment
They backpedaled and had to fundamentally change the way PvP worked in their game because they were SHOCKED! SHOCKED! when unrestricted open world PvP led to toxic behavior. Um... Yeah. Of course it will. This is the kind of thing you’d only see from a company clueless about online gaming culture and history. They have a really high budget and grand ideas but are out of their depth. I anticipate a juicy disaster after the sheen rubs off of this one.
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
AoC is long lived with a focus on developing relationships and building up the world together. I think the parts people will see the most fun conflict in will be from guild created conflicts and also the political structure from the node systems that create a lot of interesting drama. I say interesting, because even if you have a failed political coup d'état or even a successful siege on a city, it won't feel like a personal attack on you and more like a story plot development. That is all my perspective anyway.
Kekw
Can't really go into the nitty gritty details because of NDA, you'd have to see for yourself.
Come take a look at ashesofcreation.wiki!
After doing my own research into New World I came to the conclusion it was not the game for me, while the crafting looked interesting, the lack of different races, no true end game and the fact there already seemed to be a heavy armour meta before the game has even launched.
But I wish them well none the less.
And now i have played the new Alpha, and its so damn boring, you spend 99% of the time running from point A to point B
0dbea148-8cb8-4711-ba90-eb0864e93b5f
On the other hand, AoC won't be out for 2 more years so if NW is a success AoC will seem like old ideas by then and lose some of it's originality. This lack of standing out from the crowd will hurt it. People are already complaining that it seems generic.
I stumbled upon it (NW) by accident and was initially excited, as i searched for as much info on the game as i could find i came across a video by Neckrage, whom ive never heard of but he was an Alpha tester for NW, he painted a very disappointing picture for NW, everything i can find on it suggests hes correct.
So ill be looking around.. /wave
I played for 2 hours, their open action combat is a required taste, especially for PvP and won't be playing it. Idk what the heck they're going for.
What this man said. If they had transportation it wouldn't be so bad.
The culture and mentality around open world PVP in 2020 is actually different from what it was in 2006 and onwards. The problem we face today is that there's no group mentality on ganking low level players or people in general, if a high level player kills you over and over again with clear malice and ill-intent people won't start ganking him in turn. Most will even laugh at you or treat you like you're bad.
Here's a great example: There's an infamous case of a very toxic PK'er in Vanilla wow who would haunt Menethil harbor and PK people for hours on end. The reason he got away with it was because he was clever about it and never corpse camped for very long, he'd kill you once or twice and you could be on your way. He'd only target you if you targeted him and would avoid groups of players if he wasn't confident he could kill one of you and slip.
The mentality now?
"Guys! Let's get our ENTIRE GUILD of 100 players and kill every player we find until they quit the game! It's so funny to see these losers quit get gud scrub lmfao! xD"
They weren't shocked about the toxic behavior, they were shocked about how no one would do anything to combat it and in fact JOINED in on that behavior. As for how they changed PVP, it's not a great change but that's also subject to be changed. Most likely, they will settle for a system where companies can openly declare war on each other and said guilds will be able to attack one another openly but not other players. That combined with the siege system is also good, the siege system requires 50 on both side (which is pretty massive) and allows the defenders to simply wait out the attackers, it's 100% better then Albion Online's crappy 15v15 arena battles for land.
From what I read this morning you can fast travel back to your home if you have one. They call it Recall.
It really isn't anything like AoC.
I think the original idea/the way it used to be described (before more solid details came out and people actually started testing it) made the two sound more similar in nature. Now however...yeah they aren't very similar anymore.
Being developed by an Amazon studios isn't enough to make up for quality, the game doesn't *feel* as smooth as I hoped it would, the animations have an after-cast delay that feels squishy, AI hits you in a very weird speed and you feel weak against wolves (lol?). I can't stress enough how movement/combat animation fluidity is important, the connection between hitting an opponent and feeling it had an effect depicted by an animation, etc. We'll be doing that A LOT so it got to be really smooth. Although it's not perfect due to being kinda floaty, Guild Wars 2 is by far very superior when it comes to fluidity and I hope AOC is inspired by that game and tweak combat fluidity in that direction, just less floaty and more weighty.
The ranged combat... holy f* it feels so awful to use a Fire Staff, the aiming with that tiny reticle and the ground-targeting? I was so frustrated that I only felt "in control" by using a sword and a shield. That's just a blatant big NO for me, period. The combat "passives" and the amount of skills are ridiculously limited leading to a shallow combat overall. They talk about adding more weapons but I can't see anywhere talking about combat depth and I can't accept depth = more weapon swaps. I just can't. That combat is flawed in many aspects and the ranged aiming has been a nail in the coffin for me, particularly.
I won't even go as far as questing goes because I felt lost without a proper presentation of how I should proceed. If AOC doesn't have quest icons and such I feel that it should be presented to me beforehand so I know what to expect. I felt so all over the place with their tutorial, and it took me so long to discover where to get a staff in the first place. I'm a mage for god's sake let me use a stick and shoot fireballs lol. I like that the quest icons were not in the map (avoid cluttering icons on the mini-map) but these things should have a toggle or be sufficiently visible in-game.
Questing feels very repetitive BUT I think it's because it's very early so I understand this part. Gathering is awesome in my honest opinion, had a lot of fun and the music feels so nice to go around harvesting, loved the notifications when I level anything (weapon mastery, crafting abilities, gathering abilities). Having the gathering nodes in a red color to depict that I need more level is a good point for me. If AOC goes for some similar lock (which I think is totally healthy for progression purposes) and doesn't show gatherable node names, a simple message of "It looks like you need more expertise in order to gather this herb/plant" would be quite cool to inform we need more level.
I like the idea of "maturing" weapons though it's just a way to level other classes if you think about it. I liked the sense of discovery, New World is very beautiful. The only big issue is AI moving as if it was a 2007 MMO. /shrugs
All in all I'll probably pass this one. Not worth it. Ranged aiming ruined it for me plus you can't jump (????).
I heard a bird ♫
IS is the complete opposite. They are always talking about their new staff. Maybe because there aren't as many as Amazon Games or maybe they value them as creators and not just employees.
The entire vibe of each company looks and feels different. The best saying I ever was told was by a boss I still respect and talk to 10 years later (he didn't make this up):
I think we can all agree that Bezos is not this kind of person. If he's ever played a single MMO to end game I'd be very surprised.
However, I guarantee you they will mess up the design decisions just like every other mmorpg in the last decade because they will try to appeal to all audiences to get as much short-term revenue as possible for their stockholders. They will sell out their original vision of the game in order to try to appease two opposing groups of people: carebears and pvpers. The result will be bad design decisions that lead to a watered-down shell of a game and a quickly declining population once everyone finishes leveling and realizes that there is really no risk/reward and no point to doing anything in the game at all. This is why I have hope for AoC, because I have hope that Steven won't sell-out his vision for the game for short-term profits.
TLDR: The game is a hotpot of bad game design meant to attract as many people as possible to milk the community for as much money as possible.
Avoid at all costs.
Friend of mine played it a lot during the last Alpha test.
I watched him play and have to say they screwed it up badly.
Both of us canceld our preorder.
There is this dev stream from amazon where the creative director is announcing the changes to the pvp system with the Marketing direktor(?).
You can see it on the face of the Creative director that the game changes were not his plan but the directive from the Bord.
Amazon makes the game to make money.
You can see it in every system they changed.
Just to give you some idea.
The endgame is castle sieges for the controll of a town.
Its 50 vs 50 so guilds will fights other guilds.
Now the problem is that there another type.
The invasion were NPCs storm your castle.
Again its 50 defenders vs Monster hord.
If you loose the invasion then your castle defenses loose some of their levels.
They downgrade.
Problem is that while in the PVP Siege the Defending guild can controll who joins the defender, thats not the case for the invasion.
During the Monster siege only 10 people from the ruling guild have set slots.
The other 40 slots are random.
So if i wanted to siege your castle, i would join the PVE invasion as Defender and sabotage you by simple beeing afk or worse i jump into a siege enginge and then go afk.
You loose your defense level and i will siege you afterwards with a lot higher success chance.
AGS announced this so that Random people could still be part of the endgame.
When confronted with the possible abuse, i heard that they called it part of the design.
Apart from that the game is full of genereic quests like kill 10 wolfs and return. Over and over and over again.
There is no real story to follow.
Another bad design is the crafting system.
To craft higher level stuff you need a special ressource.
Example.
You can craft level 1 wood into a level 1 plank.
To craft the level 2 Plank you need a level 2 wood, level 1 Plank and a special ressource.
That special ressource is found at every Level grind spot in Chests were random loot is in it.
You can not dedicated farm it. It all depens on RNG.
That you find pretty much all your gear in the wild as Drops is another thing thats terrible game design.
The game is full of that. Terrible decisions made to please the masses and make a quick buck.
There is also the rumor that New world is just the testing ground to see what attracks costumers for the Lord of the Rings MMO.
Also AGS has allready published several games if i remember right. None of them were any good.