So that’s your opinion of what will happen
Mine is
Just like every new games thats come out recently is
Competitive play will come into it later on with big streamers which in turn will make the game more popular
Then tournaments at a very later stage like worlds etc on twitch
So enjoy running around and getting killed in unbalanced, stale open world pvp and leave the arena for the big boys yeah
Oh, ok, so you basically have no idea at all what this game is about then.
I mean, I knew that a few pages ago, but whatever.
---
This is an open world MMORPG.
There is no desire at all to try and make it an e-sport title, there is no desire at all to try and court streamers once the game is live. In fact, since the game is designed around essentially grind based gameplay, it would be uneconomical for a larger streamer to even consider this game (large streamers stream as content to make money - people generally don't want to watch someone else grind in an MMO).
The only streamers this game will have are smaller scale ones, people that stream for fun rather than for profit. Even then, after the second or third time they lose a siege due to someone on the opposing side watching their stream, they will soon learn to not even bother streaming the worthwhile content in the game.
Your assumption for what this game is going to be is diametrically opposed to what Steven has said he wants the game to be.
Also, "stale" open world PvP is the excuse people have that can't hack it out in the real (online) world. It isn't stale, you just keep losing to people that have no arena rank.
Wait what? Hahaha you can’t be serious right.
From someone who has done open world pvp far longer than you have on numerous games, you can’t talk at all, been there done it million times over and its the same every time, every expac, in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons
Sorry you struggle to grasp simple mechanics and strategy to play in a competitive environment
You can’t be that dense
Take a look at twitch from the past few months
New world (Open world MMO) had shroud streaming, with over 100k viewers each time he did (game died due to bugs and zero end game content)
Lost Ark Same thing, big streamers jump on it
And currently with Elden Ring literally Dr Disrespect is playing it right now
Never needed an excuse like i said 50 times over i know what this games about, can do it all and will. This thread is not about if arenas will be taken seriously it’s literally about adding a 2v2 bracket and nothing more, you keep coming back here and voicing zero experience opinions
Only people who hate arena are the players who never got high in anything lmfao
EDIT: Just because it starts off with no intention doesn’t mean it can’t change later, if arena pops off in this game and goes large why wouldn’t they do it?
Take Apex legends for example, game came outta no where with no intentions for anything
Now its still the 5th highest played game
Has ranked BR and ranked arena
With annual tournaments
in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons
Not true. In LOTRO many players played exclusevely for Ettenmoors - an open-world PvP location. We've spent years in Ettenmoors, some people even close to a decade.
in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons
Not true. In LOTRO many players played exclusevely for Ettenmoors - an open-world PvP location. We've spent years in Ettenmoors, some people even close to a decade.
Most, I still believe competitive play can be just as focused on as well as other aspects of the game
in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons
Not true. In LOTRO many players played exclusevely for Ettenmoors - an open-world PvP location. We've spent years in Ettenmoors, some people even close to a decade.
Most, I still believe competitive play can be just as focused on as well as other aspects of the game
You conflate competitive play with arena play.
I would also add Archeage to the list of games where the arena was not the mainstay of PvP. Since Ashes is taking more inspiration from Archeage than from any other game, it is one you maybe want to pay attention to.
(Stir the pot opinion)
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)
(Stir the pot opinion)
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)
3v3 will be and always been the most fun, though in saying that 5v5 comes close
It will be the main once cause its the most balanced
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
considering the game is balanced around groups making arenas smaller seems like a handicap
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
(Stir the pot opinion)
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)
3v3 will be and always been the most fun, though in saying that 5v5 comes close
It will be the main once cause its the most balanced
5v5 in a game like WoW is 8v8 in Ashes - a full group.
(Stir the pot opinion)
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)
3v3 will be and always been the most fun, though in saying that 5v5 comes close
It will be the main once cause its the most balanced
5v5 in a game like WoW is 8v8 in Ashes - a full group.
But the only brackets confirmed in Ashes is
1v1, 3v3, 5v5
In regards to balance, since this game is mostly skill shots might be alright, will come down to cooldown management, los’ing, dodging, hitting your skills, team composition etc
So can’t really speculate until its out and people are relatively the same gear competing
I’am pretty excited to see how it turns out cause could be really fun especially compared to current WoWs arena 😂
I truly believe 8v8 will be implemented as an arena mode because of the standard 8-man party size and the combat balance of the game revolving around full groups.
Doubt it
That’s too big just becomes a zerg fest with no real strategy or coordination
Plus already have so many brackets
Though i’am interested to see the 20man death match will it be a mini royale with last one standing or will you keep respawning and highest kill count wins
Doubt it
That’s too big just becomes a zerg fest with no real strategy or coordination
Plus already have so many brackets
8-man zerg? That's the first time i've ever heard of a zerg that small..
There can be strategy and coordination in far bigger groups than that.
Sure an extra bracket, but that would be theorically the most competitive and most balanced bracket.
Doubt it
That’s too big just becomes a zerg fest with no real strategy or coordination
Plus already have so many brackets
8-man zerg? That's the first time i've ever heard of a zerg that small..
There can be strategy and coordination in far bigger groups than that.
Sure an extra bracket, but that would be theorically the most competitive and most balanced bracket.
Maybe for the arena when they did the brawl is what I remember it being was choatic 😂
However in saying that, could be a different game mode? Like the equivalent of RBGs in WoW, like capture the flag mode etc
But I think arena will stay as what its set atm atleast for the first couple of seasons and be interesting to see how it goes
Also, you keep saying its a side thing, but if this games pops off and becomes big then i can’t see why all aspects of the games can’t be focused on
Ranked arena with different rewards, different season gears, titles, mounts etc
Also, you keep saying its a side thing, but if this games pops off and becomes big then i can’t see why all aspects of the games can’t be focused on
Ranked arena with different rewards, different season gears, titles, mounts etc
I believe you are mistaking me for Noaani in this part.
I believe arenas can become way more than just a sideshow, especially if they take a "Lineage 2 olympiads" approach to it, but it's mere speculation at this point.
Ranked arena with different rewards, different season gears, titles, mounts etc
Intrepid have outright said that the arena will not reward players with gear. That is a no-go.
Thinking about what "could be" is all good. I have no problem with that. The thing is, you need to think about what "could be" within the bounds of what Intrepid have said - at least in regards to the broad strokes of the game.
If they say they want to incentivize people to play out in the open world rather than in instances (which includes the arena), then you have to make the assumption that this holds true in any "could be" situation.
If you don't take these things in to account, you are thinking about a game that is not Ashes, and what "could be" in that game.
Ranked arena with different rewards, different season gears, titles, mounts etc
Intrepid have outright said that the arena will not reward players with gear. That is a no-go.
Thinking about what "could be" is all good. I have no problem with that. The thing is, you need to think about what "could be" within the bounds of what Intrepid have said - at least in regards to the broad strokes of the game.
If they say they want to incentivize people to play out in the open world rather than in instances (which includes the arena), then you have to make the assumption that this holds true in any "could be" situation.
If you don't take these things in to account, you are thinking about a game that is not Ashes, and what "could be" in that game.
They only said at this stage, haven’t confirmed that it won’t. Like i said with different seasons added it might change later on down the track
And intrepid have confirmed there will be seasons so obviously the first season won’t have it but in future ones it might after the game has been out for a while
Also i tried to look up what you said, they only mentioned that you can’t que arena from anywhere like in WoW for example
You will be forced into the open world to go down to an arena contender to que with your team
If players are used to 5 man groups, then sure, 8v8 may not be overly well organized.
On the other hand, if players are used to 8 man groups, 8v8 will be organized, because people are used to organizing groups of that size.
Exactly, organization of groups is a matter of experience and time, Lineage 2 for example was 9-man party size and competitive 9v9 fights of experienced groups was extremely organized and was pretty strategy reliant.
Aren't we all sinners?
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The game will have PvP seasons, and your score for a given season is based on your performance in all forms of PvP - sieges, caravans, guild and node wars -
and arenas as an afterthought.
The game will have PvP seasons, and your score for a given season is based on your performance in all forms of PvP - sieges, caravans, guild and node wars -
and arenas as an afterthought.
PvP seasons
Performance in various PvP systems (such as Caravans, Arenas, Guild wars) is measured over the course of 6 month PvP seasons. At the end of each season, a player's cumulative score may unlock various rewards.[2][12]
Gear enhancement rewards.[12]
Achievement ranks.[12]
Purchasing power (Currency).[12]
Jeez you’re full of it, not even a side thought it’s literally on par with the rest of the pvp modes in this game
Again, you literally come on here just to down talk it, like, why even give your opinion on something you care so little about
The game will have PvP seasons, and your score for a given season is based on your performance in all forms of PvP - sieges, caravans, guild and node wars -
and arenas as an afterthought.
PvP seasons
Performance in various PvP systems (such as Caravans, Arenas, Guild wars) is measured over the course of 6 month PvP seasons. At the end of each season, a player's cumulative score may unlock various rewards.[2][12]
Gear enhancement rewards.[12]
Achievement ranks.[12]
Purchasing power (Currency).[12]
Jeez you’re full of it, not even a side thought it’s literally on par with the rest of the pvp modes in this game
Again, you literally come on here just to down talk it, like, why even give your opinion on something you care so little about
Here's a quote you should maybe consider when thinking about how Intrepid see arenas in Ashes.
The importance of arenas are obviously that players have an opportunity to participate [and] practice out certain builds from a PvP perspective and can compete with one another within the system.
That is how they see them. As a tool to help players get ready for the real game - which is the open world. Everything related to rewards and such in the arena absolutely us an afterthought - because they literally thought of it after they thought of the arena as this tool for players.
I can't think of a better description of "afterthought" than something that was thought about after the fact.
Because 2s are a lot harder to balance, for all the reasons you already stated.
2v2 allows you to run a non healer pair, and usually have enough burst to over power a healers output. So you essentially build a tier that healers avoid.
Or in the flip side you create a situation where a 2 healer team is impossible to kill because no pairing can produce enough output to burst one healer down. The healers either slowly wear you down, or they troll the arena and force you into maclx time matches.
This argument can be used in any combination of X vs Y...2 vs 2 isn't some magical number that is impossible to balance.
Having said that, I prefer the challenge of larger arenas and feel that 1 vs 1 should be duels and not ranked, arenas should start at 2 vs 2 and go to whatever max group size is.
Comments
Wait what? Hahaha you can’t be serious right.
From someone who has done open world pvp far longer than you have on numerous games, you can’t talk at all, been there done it million times over and its the same every time, every expac, in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons
Sorry you struggle to grasp simple mechanics and strategy to play in a competitive environment
You can’t be that dense
Take a look at twitch from the past few months
New world (Open world MMO) had shroud streaming, with over 100k viewers each time he did (game died due to bugs and zero end game content)
Lost Ark Same thing, big streamers jump on it
And currently with Elden Ring literally Dr Disrespect is playing it right now
Never needed an excuse like i said 50 times over i know what this games about, can do it all and will. This thread is not about if arenas will be taken seriously it’s literally about adding a 2v2 bracket and nothing more, you keep coming back here and voicing zero experience opinions
Only people who hate arena are the players who never got high in anything lmfao
EDIT: Just because it starts off with no intention doesn’t mean it can’t change later, if arena pops off in this game and goes large why wouldn’t they do it?
Take Apex legends for example, game came outta no where with no intentions for anything
Now its still the 5th highest played game
Has ranked BR and ranked arena
With annual tournaments
Lost Ark is an online ARPG, not an MMORPG. May ass well be talking about DOTA or LoL.
Apex Legends was always designed as an e-sport title, so it shouldn't be a huge surprise that it is being developed as an e-sport title.
Again, that isn't what Ashes is about, the only way the game will be the game you are thinking it will be is if Steven sells it.
Not true. In LOTRO many players played exclusevely for Ettenmoors - an open-world PvP location. We've spent years in Ettenmoors, some people even close to a decade.
Most, I still believe competitive play can be just as focused on as well as other aspects of the game
You conflate competitive play with arena play.
I would also add Archeage to the list of games where the arena was not the mainstay of PvP. Since Ashes is taking more inspiration from Archeage than from any other game, it is one you maybe want to pay attention to.
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)
3v3 will be and always been the most fun, though in saying that 5v5 comes close
It will be the main once cause its the most balanced
This is not compared to groups, its out of all 3 brackets though
Yeah, a lack of 8v8 does seem odd to me as well.
5v5 in a game like WoW is 8v8 in Ashes - a full group.
But the only brackets confirmed in Ashes is
1v1, 3v3, 5v5
In regards to balance, since this game is mostly skill shots might be alright, will come down to cooldown management, los’ing, dodging, hitting your skills, team composition etc
So can’t really speculate until its out and people are relatively the same gear competing
I’am pretty excited to see how it turns out cause could be really fun especially compared to current WoWs arena 😂
Aren't we all sinners?
That’s too big just becomes a zerg fest with no real strategy or coordination
Plus already have so many brackets
Though i’am interested to see the 20man death match will it be a mini royale with last one standing or will you keep respawning and highest kill count wins
8-man zerg?
There can be strategy and coordination in far bigger groups than that.
Sure an extra bracket, but that would be theorically the most competitive and most balanced bracket.
Aren't we all sinners?
I agree with James that it is the one arena mode that is likely to be added.
Anyone unable to maintain strategy and coordination in a group of 8 may well be better off staying in instanced PvP.
Maybe for the arena when they did the brawl is what I remember it being was choatic 😂
However in saying that, could be a different game mode? Like the equivalent of RBGs in WoW, like capture the flag mode etc
But I think arena will stay as what its set atm atleast for the first couple of seasons and be interesting to see how it goes
Also, you keep saying its a side thing, but if this games pops off and becomes big then i can’t see why all aspects of the games can’t be focused on
Ranked arena with different rewards, different season gears, titles, mounts etc
I believe you are mistaking me for Noaani in this part.
I believe arenas can become way more than just a sideshow, especially if they take a "Lineage 2 olympiads" approach to it, but it's mere speculation at this point.
Aren't we all sinners?
On the other hand, if players are used to 8 man groups, 8v8 will be organized, because people are used to organizing groups of that size. Intrepid have outright said that the arena will not reward players with gear. That is a no-go.
Thinking about what "could be" is all good. I have no problem with that. The thing is, you need to think about what "could be" within the bounds of what Intrepid have said - at least in regards to the broad strokes of the game.
If they say they want to incentivize people to play out in the open world rather than in instances (which includes the arena), then you have to make the assumption that this holds true in any "could be" situation.
If you don't take these things in to account, you are thinking about a game that is not Ashes, and what "could be" in that game.
They only said at this stage, haven’t confirmed that it won’t. Like i said with different seasons added it might change later on down the track
And intrepid have confirmed there will be seasons so obviously the first season won’t have it but in future ones it might after the game has been out for a while
Also i tried to look up what you said, they only mentioned that you can’t que arena from anywhere like in WoW for example
You will be forced into the open world to go down to an arena contender to que with your team
That’s all ive found on what you have wrote
Exactly, organization of groups is a matter of experience and time, Lineage 2 for example was 9-man party size and competitive 9v9 fights of experienced groups was extremely organized and was pretty strategy reliant.
Aren't we all sinners?
Arena points that can be used to buy gear is not currently in the design.[7]
Mounts come from the animal husbandry system.
Gear comes from crafting.
Both these should stay that way keeps the economy moving.
Indeed they have, just not arena seasons.
The game will have PvP seasons, and your score for a given season is based on your performance in all forms of PvP - sieges, caravans, guild and node wars -
and arenas as an afterthought.
PvP seasons
Performance in various PvP systems (such as Caravans, Arenas, Guild wars) is measured over the course of 6 month PvP seasons. At the end of each season, a player's cumulative score may unlock various rewards.[2][12]
Gear enhancement rewards.[12]
Achievement ranks.[12]
Purchasing power (Currency).[12]
Jeez you’re full of it, not even a side thought it’s literally on par with the rest of the pvp modes in this game
Again, you literally come on here just to down talk it, like, why even give your opinion on something you care so little about
Here's a quote you should maybe consider when thinking about how Intrepid see arenas in Ashes.
That is how they see them. As a tool to help players get ready for the real game - which is the open world. Everything related to rewards and such in the arena absolutely us an afterthought - because they literally thought of it after they thought of the arena as this tool for players.
I can't think of a better description of "afterthought" than something that was thought about after the fact.
2v2 is a good addition I think though
I think most people would play with their friend, regardless if it is viable or not!
I would personally go for a double dps high damage combo. Since I like fast paced arenas!
This argument can be used in any combination of X vs Y...2 vs 2 isn't some magical number that is impossible to balance.
Having said that, I prefer the challenge of larger arenas and feel that 1 vs 1 should be duels and not ranked, arenas should start at 2 vs 2 and go to whatever max group size is.