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A Long Time MMO Player's Fears About Ashes

2

Comments

  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    hansen22 wrote: »
    @Lafi I read about Ashes of Creation combat system years ago, and right now many will go grey and bounty hunting, because they can PvP without much risk to lose items vs corruped like players from Darkfall & Crowfall which is mainly small PvP focused mmos.
    And like in Dayz open sandbox world with full loot drop on death - bounty hunters can track corrupted guilds and players and that is a huge advantage being grey like in Ultima Online PvP system with murders and Gordon Walton from Star Wars Galaxies who are now busy in Crowfall.

    Yeah I know it is not a hardcore mmo and it is fine, but many old PvP guilds who are consider hardcore in mmo or pvp focused guilds are watching the development of Ashes of Creation as well.

    Yes about character movement it depends on character powers and spell/power distant/range on each class in AoC if you consider player stacking would be an issue. It would be blocking tactics with really large scale combat events and siege wars in narrow terrain and inside cities or structures and streets.
    So I see character movement an issue how it is right now so you can active coordinate to block out your enemies in narrow passage ways inside a city for example.

    On the PvP side of things, remember that there's it a traveling time. The map is huge and you can't just walk and teleport.
    So keep that in mind about this pvp
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    lemme break this down cos this is a loaded message :)
    Lafi to the last thing you said i have raided before logs were big and such and tbh content is easy its really who you are playing against, to assume that i rely on logs to see how to play is just odd. I look at logs so i can beat others and compare its more of a collaborative effort to challenge yourself to do better. For anyone that looks a logs to get a cheat sheet on how to play a game they are already behind the curve in theorycrafting and parsing always..

    100% fair point, however at the end of the day logs and parsers are not ONLY used for this purpose.
    i PERSONALLY support the concept of meters for your own performance, or some in-game way to check dps and rotations etc.
    however tools that literally hold your hand through fights are just a 'no' from me. i'm a human, let me mess up like a human!
    To the first note you said thats dungeon content and not raid content that just sounds like a redesign of mythic + its not exactly new content or ground breaking.
    please understand i never meant that there is NO raid content.
    content is being designed for teams of 8, 16 and up to 40 (yes four, zero) players!
    there is 100% raids.
    i didn't play WoW, i hated the dated graphics, the horrific use of addons and its afk-like content from a non-wow player's point of view.
    And to the gatekeeping thing most games that have heavy gate keeping on world content dont promote good play it only promotes good control of logistics and recruiting it becomes a battle of numbers and not of skill, the ideal world is that all guilds will run really cool and interesting tactics but even in wow classic that has millions of ppl playing there is only 1 or 2 guilds that even try world pvp tactics on a massive scale and all the others just zerg pvp with numbers and remove all sense of skill .

    every time i hear about WoW's PvP its negative and dead. memes about how WoW struggles to pull of 10v10 are in my ears near weekly from friends.
    i hope that you respect when i say, this isnt WoW.
    this is Ashes of Creation and i am more than willing to asusme that there will be more blood spilled daily than in a week of WoW battlegrounds simply because the game incentivises and in certain ways rewards it.
    you've touched BDO you said. it's best content is GvGs. the 'BDO golden age' was guilds SLAUGHTERING eachother at guild bosses to gamble better gear advantages for the next siege.

    you note Zerg pvp. players cannot stack together, 250-300 people is going to be a huge target and you wont be able to keep them all tight and alive. people will be picked off and spiked. tactics will be VERY real. the posistion of your front line will be huge. your rogue's target selection decisions will be huge. where your mages throw their AOEs will be huge.
    simply because there isnt going to be enough room to avoid everything.

    i do recall that within a lot of largescale combat there are also sub-objectvies that not only promote splitting of forces but may also require it!

    no source on that i just recall it !

    i say again though, this isn't WoW !
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lafi wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    hansen22 wrote: »
    My main concern is character movement and combat related to the corrupted and bounty hunter system with Ultima Online, Shadowbane, and Darkfall background in 2009 closed beta like Shroud.
    Besides you can block another character path and movement like in the recent Ashes of Creation live video from Twitch, and that is really bad in large scale massive mmo with sieges. So they need to consider ESO style character movements which should be fluid like in Cyrodil battleground. The Ashen of Creation PvP system is much better than faction and Clasic WoW since retail WoW PvP is entirely optional and can be turned on/off by the player. However still really restricted for PvP focused guilds like LoD, Sinister, Winterblades, Sugoi to mention a few old murder/ PvP foucsed guilds like 250k players who signed for hardcore PvP open world siege war game with inventory drop on death.

    I also listen to Asmongold youtube interview some days ago that 10 flying mounts out of 10k players is a really horrible idea based on rariety or requirement to even own a flying mount, Steven!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0LQSMT83L0&t=2799s

    Because flying mounts is fun and almost everyone want to fly a mount in that fucking carebear faction WoW game with no loot drop on death risk vs reward, where is the risk drop one item while being corrupt? In Crowfall the entire 260k memberbase will be corrupted in Ashes of Creation focus on PvP combat, because that is what the old fashion risk vs reward system is all about in an open world sandbox mmo. WoW Classic start a new character the whole beginner zones are emtpy and barren, and cool downs is so fucking bad that you dont bother with World of Warcraft in 2020. Blizzard are literally miling their old playerbase for garbage mmo that came out in 2004, jebuz fucking christ! I was busy in Shadowbane in a strategic siege war game in 2003 with meaningful PvP and a risk vs reward system in an open sandbox world!

    Anyway steven Ashes of Creation devs should not consider a flying mounts to be that rare or unique, because everyone who play that gimp fuck game with a fuck company like Blizzard want a flying mount, Steven. So no one who will bother with Ashes of Creation will not be happy that flying mounts is so hard to aquire after Ashes launch.

    Flying sucks. In every single game.
    Flying as it exists in AoC it's a great idea.
    Status
    Prestige
    Reverence
    Raining the power on the plebs.

    even asmongold, that WoW guy with 10,000+ viewers regularly in the WoW scene agrees that restricting flying mounts to the select few is a cool idea.
    regarding your point about pvp guilds, the only thing that is restricted, is flagging.
    there is MORE than enough pvp content for hardcore pvp guilds to consume.

    He only thinks that because he plans to have 5x300 guilds guaranteeing him a flying political mount
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    A long time ago two Guilds massacred a third guild. The two Guilds ganked levelling players, blocked access to raids and massacred the PvP players on res pads. This happened for 3 weeks. One day a fourth Guild appeared and reinforced the third Guild. The Fourth Guild had spent months on the down low getting tons of Raid Armour. The fourth Guild wiped the two first Guilds and protected the third Guild.

    This is what Ashes will enable. Alliances are important. Trade is important. PvE is important. Crafting is important. PvP will take care of itself.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    He only thinks that because he plans to have 5x300 guilds guaranteeing him a flying political mount

    Mega Guilds always do underestimate the opponents. 1,500 Players verse 8,500 players (really 48,500 registered accounts per server). So long as the Mega Guild doesn't grow even bigger then it will be contained and put in its place.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    hansen22 wrote: »
    @Lafi I read about Ashes of Creation combat system years ago, and right now many will go grey and bounty hunting, because they can PvP without much risk to lose items vs corruped like players from Darkfall & Crowfall which is mainly small PvP focused mmos.
    And Bounty hunters can track corrupted guilds and players and that is a huge advantage being grey like in Ultima Online PvP system with murders and Gordon Walton from Star Wars Galaxies who are now busy in Crowfall.
    apologies but i know exactly what grey correlates to, im assuming AoC's PURPLE tier, where you're a pvp'er but not a murderer of innocents.
    hansen22 wrote: »
    Yeah I know it is not a hardcore mmo and it is fine, but many old PvP guilds who are consider hardcore in mmo or pvp focused guilds are watching the development of Ashes of Creation as well.
    100% aware of pvp guilds etc.
    however, ashes is directly promoting PvP.
    murder or people that do NOT want to PvP is where restrction is made.
    hardcore PvP players truly have NO reason to go red given that you'll find SO many players that are purple (willing to PvP)
    hansen22 wrote: »
    Yes about character movement it depends on character powers and spell/power distant/range on each class in AoC if you consider player stacking would be an issue. It would be blocking tactics with really large scale combat events and siege wars in narrow terrain and inside cities with building structures and streets, or inside a forest which could be narrow as well or a narrow Dale entrance.
    So I see character movement an issue how it is right now so you can active coordinate to block out your enemies in narrow passage ways inside a city for example.

    Is that not just stratergy? is that not just war?
    take a second and think:
    if someone blocks your path. why would you allow him to live any longer?
    kill those that try to restrict you.
    blocking has been mentioned that collision is momentum based also. i don' t recall where i heard this, i believe it was one of the monthly livestreams.
    so if you want to push through the enemy frontline, you need the momentum to displace them. also i hard CCs could probably work like knockdowns etc!

    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Also, since you're new, please keep in mind Smaller guilds will have bonuses that large guilds don't.
    I'm not sure how it will play out, but you either chose bonuses for your guild or more members, because Guilds level up, so it's always a choice.
    Mayeb it's like 300 hundreds, and each of your own is worth 10 of them
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    He only thinks that because he plans to have 5x300 guilds guaranteeing him a flying political mount

    Mega Guilds always do underestimate the opponents. 1,500 Players verse 8,500 players (really 48,500 registered accounts per server). So long as the Mega Guild doesn't grow even bigger then it will be contained and put in its place.

    if they're not contained people will just roll server and leave them to run a dead server with 0 competitive content ^^
    also imagine thinking streamer communities won't take positions away from the streamer for content kekw
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • hansen22hansen22 Member
    edited July 2020
    @BlackBrony You quote me too fast - I need to edit my content since my english is not my main language.

    Anyway legendary mounts could be rare or legendary, fine, but flying mounts should most have access to which was my point earlier, because like base jumps in Trollveggen here in Norway, many enjoy that feeling of flying especially in a rpg. mmo. :)
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    hansen22 wrote: »
    @BlackBrony You quote me too fast - I need to edit my content since my english is not my main language.

    Anyway legendary mounts could be rare or legendary, fine, but flying mounts should most have access to which was my point earlier, because like base jumps in Trollveggen here in Norway, many enjoy that feeling of flying especially in a rpg. mmo. :)

    i mean you don't need a flying mount to base-jump. just climb a mountain and jump off
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    hansen22 wrote: »
    @BlackBrony You quote me too fast - I need to edit my content since my english is not my original language.

    Anyway legendary mounts could be rare or legendary, fine, but flying mounts should most have access to which was my point earlier, because like base jumps in Trollveggen here in Norway, many enjoy that feeling of flying especially in an mmo. :)

    It's basic economics. Scarcity increases value, even if it cannot be bought.
    If everyone has a flying mount, then mounts aren't special.
    If 10 players have it, when you see a player flying with that mount, you're struck. You look up and say "there's my mayor!" or "there's my guild leader".

    Also, AoC it's open world pvp. 3 dimensions make it a lot harder to gank and create conflict.
    Also traveling. Just hit autorun, fly, avoid any issues and get to the other side of the map.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Keep in mind there are 2 types of pvpers
    1) the ones that love arenas and castle sieges and are ok with a fair fight
    2) the ones that only want an unfair fight to annoy someone they never should have been fighting in the 1st place.

    Tons of open world pvpers but not all fall into group 2. If given the chance most of them would much rather camp a nonpvper than fight someone who has a chance to win
  • They will have limited or very few teleport/gate transport systems in Ashes, @BlackBrony . I believe that flying mounts will have a key role how to visit new Nodes. And when I look at the world map it is a huge occean, and we have ship building. So flying mounts should be consider important and more common in this world, and it`s not the only method how to approach a new continent. Items like mounts will probably be different in rarity though from common green to uncommon blue, rare purple, orange legendary.
    My point is I don`t see an issue that most have access to an uncommon or common flying mount. I know that Dragon are legendary or rare, but we won`t see a dragon army by air anytime soon since legendary mounts were unique and very difficult to acquire.
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    hansen22 wrote: »
    They will have limited or very few teleport/gate transport systems in Ashes, @BlackBrony
    this is because distance is meant to matter. especially considering PvE trash loot.
    the further you travel to sell them the more money you make.
    teleport and fast travel reduce the value of many of the games' systems.
    hansen22 wrote: »
    I believe that flying mounts will have a key role how to visit new Nodes.
    nope
    hansen22 wrote: »
    And when I look at the world map it is a huge occean, and we have ship building. So flying mounts should be consider important and more common in this world
    this is justification as to why flying mounts are not required to exist on a mass scale.
    there are other forms of travel that are designed to work hand in hand with other core systems.


    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well I still have a fear about flying mounts... I want that flying raccoon butterfly thing and fear I won’t be one the 10 people with access to one
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    When I was twelve and playing my first MMO I said 'I want to be the best Raider and get the best stuff.'
    The Guild Leader replied: 'You will never be the Best Raider or get the Best Stuff by wanting it, you must become it.'
    Thus, throughout all my MMOs since, I knuckle down and do the best I can. Whatever comes, comes.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    When I was twelve and playing my first MMO I said 'I want to be the best Raider and get the best stuff.'
    The Guild Leader replied: 'You will never be the Best Raider or get the Best Stuff by wanting it, you must become it.'
    Thus, throughout all my MMOs since, I knuckle down and do the best I can. Whatever comes, comes.
    Except the way you get these isn’t though effort or skill it’s through politics
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    When I was twelve and playing my first MMO I said 'I want to be the best Raider and get the best stuff.'
    The Guild Leader replied: 'You will never be the Best Raider or get the Best Stuff by wanting it, you must become it.'
    Thus, throughout all my MMOs since, I knuckle down and do the best I can. Whatever comes, comes.
    Except the way you get these isn’t though effort or skill it’s through politics

    NO. Misinformation.
    If you have the most quests done in a religion node, you get higher chances of being elected mayor.
    If you have tons of gold, you can bid to become mayor. > economic node
    Military node is an Last Man Standing fight, you win, you get to be mayor.

    So, the only node that it's about politics/fame/reputation is Scientific, which is democratic.

    The other ones you can buy your way in, fight your way in or grind your way in.

    Also, 1 month cycle for mayors.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I reckon you can win big with the Masses in a Scientific Node if you grind to become Economic Mayor, pack up, move on, quest to become Religious Mayor, pack up, move on, fight to become Military Mayor, pack up, move on and prove you have the biggest brains, the biggest pockets and the biggest balls in the election campaign for Scientific Mayor. Mwuhahahaha.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    In the video they said you vote for mayor. Are you saying that is only true for 25% of the nodes ? On the topic can you be a citizen of more than 1 node at a time? Like one of each type? As I suppose last man standing would be earning it. As for buying it I sure hope you can’t become maybe just by hiring a gold farmer.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    Nah you can't be a citizen of more than 1 node at a time. You'd have to pack up and move on. There will be cooldowns too.

    You definitely fight for Military Mayor. Most of my knowledge is around Bounty Hunter and Military Nodes.

    I was joshin' with the whole plan above but it could be possible. I do not know the prerequisites for the other nodes. I've only considered Military Node since I learnt Bounty Hunter requires Military Node, but I've branched out a little since Steven said they may allow Bounty Hunters from emissaries sent from a Military Metropolis. Yet I feel every man willing to help level a Military Node would be inside the Metropolis anyway.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • had to go handle stuff IRL but just wanted to point out something real quick that alot are kinda saying which is not my point at all, First i am not against pvp and i encourage it as a game play feature and dont mind it my issue with pvp is just the zerg guild mentality that actually plagued games like archage early on with the streamer guilds, which with a 10k server cap and you can almost say for certain a few servers will be almost owned by streamers.

    Also just because i did a lot in WoW does not mean i have never played other games and to the BDO stuff its safe to say bc of a lack of good PvE progression system the game has been dying out in the west for years, bc pvp players tend to change games very fast and for a lot of PvE focused players there is nothing to do besides grind mobs that are a joke to kill. Sadly with a lot of great MMOs over the years the end game PvE has been lacking and the PvE player base just goes back to WoW and to say WoW does not have good game design is naive at best, and its also safe to say that Final Fantasy is doing great with a huge focus on good raid encounters and boss design.

    If all MMO players wanted was PVP, we would all be playing BDO or Blade and Soul or any other pvp focused MMO the thing is a fully PVP focused MMO has died time and time again or lost most of its players in a month after release. Dont get me wrong though i do think a MMO dies when its only PvE focused like wildstar did but its really important when labeling a game with PvX aka saying its both you need to make sure its challenging on both ends or else its just another PVP focused MMO and i personally have seen like 10 of those fail, and in the case of BDO its almost all PVP at end game, and because of that i know a lot of ppl that get BIS gear in all slots and just quit the game because what is the point of playing it after you finish progression of your character when you dont care about PVP, and BDO is a great game but its completely lacking what a lot of players enjoy doing in MMOs.

    Its important to consider why WoW has been big for so long and not just focus on its short comings in the recent years and also pay attention to games like final fantasy that is the most successful MMO in recent years, and at the end of the day they are the complete package. why cant ashes be a complete package too, is it that we dont trust the Devs to be able to do it?

  • Lafi wrote: »
    lemme break this down cos this is a loaded message :)
    Lafi to the last thing you said i have raided before logs were big and such and tbh content is easy its really who you are playing against, to assume that i rely on logs to see how to play is just odd. I look at logs so i can beat others and compare its more of a collaborative effort to challenge yourself to do better. For anyone that looks a logs to get a cheat sheet on how to play a game they are already behind the curve in theorycrafting and parsing always..

    100% fair point, however at the end of the day logs and parsers are not ONLY used for this purpose.
    i PERSONALLY support the concept of meters for your own performance, or some in-game way to check dps and rotations etc.
    however tools that literally hold your hand through fights are just a 'no' from me. i'm a human, let me mess up like a human!
    To the first note you said thats dungeon content and not raid content that just sounds like a redesign of mythic + its not exactly new content or ground breaking.
    please understand i never meant that there is NO raid content.
    content is being designed for teams of 8, 16 and up to 40 (yes four, zero) players!
    there is 100% raids.
    i didn't play WoW, i hated the dated graphics, the horrific use of addons and its afk-like content from a non-wow player's point of view.
    And to the gatekeeping thing most games that have heavy gate keeping on world content dont promote good play it only promotes good control of logistics and recruiting it becomes a battle of numbers and not of skill, the ideal world is that all guilds will run really cool and interesting tactics but even in wow classic that has millions of ppl playing there is only 1 or 2 guilds that even try world pvp tactics on a massive scale and all the others just zerg pvp with numbers and remove all sense of skill .

    every time i hear about WoW's PvP its negative and dead. memes about how WoW struggles to pull of 10v10 are in my ears near weekly from friends.
    i hope that you respect when i say, this isnt WoW.
    this is Ashes of Creation and i am more than willing to asusme that there will be more blood spilled daily than in a week of WoW battlegrounds simply because the game incentivises and in certain ways rewards it.
    you've touched BDO you said. it's best content is GvGs. the 'BDO golden age' was guilds SLAUGHTERING eachother at guild bosses to gamble better gear advantages for the next siege.

    you note Zerg pvp. players cannot stack together, 250-300 people is going to be a huge target and you wont be able to keep them all tight and alive. people will be picked off and spiked. tactics will be VERY real. the posistion of your front line will be huge. your rogue's target selection decisions will be huge. where your mages throw their AOEs will be huge.
    simply because there isnt going to be enough room to avoid everything.

    i do recall that within a lot of largescale combat there are also sub-objectvies that not only promote splitting of forces but may also require it!

    no source on that i just recall it !

    i say again though, this isn't WoW !

    Umm call it not wow all you want its a target based MMO with abilities that have been shared over many other MMOs it plays almost exactly the same as WoW or 20 other MMOs in combat the only thing different is the systems on how to engage in combat, but even in wow like in classic there is 300 on 300 all the time on the high pop servers for fighting over world buffs but the issue with this is that only a few guilds give a shit about tactics like APEs and tbh its not very complicated stuff same for golden age of BDO it really was not super complicated it was just zerging and end of the day yeah a 250 player group could beat a 300 player group if playing better but a 100 player group cant beat a 300 player group and this has been the case in most MMOs including BDO golden age or archage, really to referance just battleground in wow shows your lack of understanding of the pvp in wow. Stop using the argument all i know is WoW its just one of the many game i stated and is very annoying, just because wow has a good pve element Ashes should not because that would be bad, why would it be bad?
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    A little about myself, I have been playing WoW since vanilla and have played many MMOs during my time playing WoW. Some examples are Wildstar, Old Republic, Runescape, BDO, Rift, Archage, Guild Wars 2, Blade and soul, Albion online, Age of Conan, Lost Ark (Through a VPN), Firefall, Maplestory 1 and 2, and Midwinter.
    I am very suspect of posters that preface a post by giving what essentially amounts to an MMO gameplay resume.

    I find it odd that with all of this experience, the only game you are able to go in to in any depth is WoW.

    To your three points from the OP.
    Point 1, the way WoW handled things does not make it the only way to handle things.

    Yeah, WoW 40 player raids were kind of shit, but that is because WoW content was kind of shit. You say you played both Rift and Age of Conan - each of these games had more in depth raid content than WoW. While they didn't have 40 player raid content, the raid content they did have should be able to tell you that the way WoW did things was almost never the best way to do things.

    I could understand your issue if you phrased it "I fear that Intrepid would make the same mistakes with 40 player raid content that Blizzard made", but you didn't. If you did phrase it like that though, I would then point out to you that the core team of senior game designers at Intrepid consist of developers from EQ, EQ2, Planetside, Planetside 2, Vanguard and Star Wars Galaxies - among others. It wasn't until recently that they even hired a developer that had worked at Blizzard. Suffice to say, the way Blizzard do things is not the way Intrepid will do things.

    Ashes will also have 20 player raid content.

    Point 2, this will be hard to do.

    The way content in Ashes will be set up, there will be the potential for essentially 5 clusters of end game content per server - based around each of the 5 metropolis nodes.

    This means that in order for a guild to block out gear from other players on the server, they would need to block it out in 5 different corners of teh game world. In some games, even this is still possible - however, one needs to remember that Ashes doesn't have fast travel like other games do.

    This means that if a spotter sees an encounter has spawned, and then alerts the guild, the guild will still be potentially several hours away from actually getting to the location. That is several hours that competing guilds - or even entire competing nodes - can attack and slow down that guild, giving others time to take on the encounter.

    Essentially, the only real way a guild would be able to completely block top end content from the rest of the server is if the rest of that server suffers from a severe case of apathy - in which case I don't think that many people will care if that guild does maintain it's monopoly.

    point 3, this is a point I agree with you on, but not necessarily for the same reasons. I have been suggesting to Intrepid for a long while now that they implement a combat tracker in to the game themselves, rather than opening it up to third parties to develop one (which will happen whether Intrepid allow it or not).

    The suggestion I have made is for them to implement it as a guild reward, but one that is only able to be selected at one point in guild progression - and that is as a choice along side tools that would be useful in other parts of the game (and as it is a part of guild progression, it is also limiting guild size if you take it).

    I have also suggested that this combat tracker only track combat of members of the guild that have selected it.

    What this suggestion does is eliminate most of the percieved negative aspects of combat trackers by keeping them out of the hands of people that don't understand their value. It means people running pick up groups do not need to worry that others may be tracking and assessing their performance. However, it does both of those things while still allowing players and guilds that understand their value to still use them to their fullest potential, which benefits the guild, the community and the developers.

    A side effect that this will have is that raid guilds wil have to understand that when recruiting a new player, there will be an amount of training that needs to go in to them. With the exception of raid guilds that only recruit from other raid guilds (which is common in WoW, but rare in other games, and likely won't exist in Ashes by the end of the games first year), there will have to be an understanding that a new recruit can't have their combat parsed until they are in the guild, but also that the recruit would never have had the opportunity to work on inproving themself until they are in the guild.

    This means guilds will have to assume a level of training for each new recruit, and will have to recruit based on player personality more than player performance, as performance will be unknow upon recruiting.

    While some players coming from other games may see this as a negative, I see it as nothing but a positive, as it should be up to raid guilds to provide some training to their recruits.
  • tugowartugowar Member, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    To the last post, TLDR

    Nonetheless, I will still say, you’re skeptical of everyone no matter what they say

    Virtue is the only good.
  • just saw some interview with the dev and all is goin' to be gud don't worry we are going to have a first look with the alpha
    1595274201-runesmith.jpg
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    1. I disagree, the PvE I've seen so far already seems way more immersive and interesting than current MMOs.
    2. Yes it will force sacrifices. I love it and am looking forward to it. PvE only puts me to sleep, I like having to stay alert and ready for anything! Exciting!
    3. I just don't see it at all. It's totally uninteresting and boring to me. I couldn't care less about someone doing more DPS than someone else on a PvE encounter. I'm actually drawn to this game because it seems to not be catering to that type of playstyle, and that's great news for me because I think that type of mentality is adds nothing to a game. Instead, I see it as a symptom of there being nothing to do in WoW that people resort to such brain-numbing and repetitive behaviors. I don't see it as content, I see it as denial, lol... That's just my opinion, but I share it to bring attention to how what one person thinks is 'bad' another person thinks is amazing.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    1. I don't think there is a reason to assume this.
    2. This is why I backed the game. I want this with the caveat that others can still compete with the guild (which I think they will). This one of the things I like to see in MMOs. I don't like it when the game's progression is just a checklist. I prefer it when I have to work to overcome obstacles and pvp is my favorite way to be challenged. The best part is how these events can contribute to the feeling of a living world and create stories that make up the server's history.
    3. There will still be tracking around dungeon runs that keep track of how well groups perform so I'm not sure if this is an issue. They plan on having leader boards around this and based of asmon's interview, sounds like groups will receive harder content as well as greater rewards for performing better.
  • NamilNamil Member, Alpha Two
    From reading your initial post it sounds like you are generally uninspired, it sounds like Ashes of Creation isn't the game for you and not every game is made for every player. The heart of this game is the interactions that come from all elements co-existing in the open world whether that be PvE or PvP and that's something players will need to accommodate for.

    The gate-keeping gameplay you talk about will no doubt be a factor in AOC as it is in many games, but groups of players can't prevent an entire area such as a boss zone from being absolutely inaccessible to the rest of the population because of the corruption system and the subsequent consequences that come from repeatedly killer other players, in my opinion the worst type of gatekeeping in an MMO is requiring players to have certain addons just to be able to participate in a high-level raiding guild and because of this I'm very supportive of there being no addons. Also, with the world being so dynamic and ever-changing, the points of interest where there may be valuable bosses and monsters to kill will change and there is potential for many nodes to provide these without scarcity across the entire world.

    I think preventing parsing addons creates a lot more personal player agency, instead of worrying about how you parse and what gear you're wearing to maximise your DPS, players can actually focus on mechanics and other aspects in the world that they can enjoy. I am a WoW player and I do enjoy the game but raiding at Heroic and Mythic difficulty and requiring addons like Deadly Boss Mods, Details and Exorcus Raid tools to participate and not be at a disadvantage was a major turn off for me, aswell as the fact that it's impossible to entirely balance all classes made me feel like I was making a wrong choice for playing a class I actually enjoyed rather than one that parsed well consistently despite me doing mechanically well on a fight.

    Realistically it sounds like the game you're looking for is the generic carrot on a stick MMO like World of Warcraft, it doesn't sound like you want to embrace the systems AOC is advertising. There is a lot more to a High-Fantasy MMORPG than just gear and parsing competition.

    With no disrespect, you do sound like a parsing drone and your enjoyment seems to derive from competitiveness rather than from the game having engaging systems. If they made the game more in line with what you're asking then it wouldn't be the unique experience they've advertised and I would personally prefer that not to be the case
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Namil wrote: »
    From reading your initial post it sounds like you are generally uninspired, it sounds like Ashes of Creation isn't the game for you and not every game is made for every player. The heart of this game is the interactions that come from all elements co-existing in the open world whether that be PvE or PvP and that's something players will need to accommodate for.

    The gate-keeping gameplay you talk about will no doubt be a factor in AOC as it is in many games, but groups of players can't prevent an entire area such as a boss zone from being absolutely inaccessible to the rest of the population because of the corruption system and the subsequent consequences that come from repeatedly killer other players, in my opinion the worst type of gatekeeping in an MMO is requiring players to have certain addons just to be able to participate in a high-level raiding guild and because of this I'm very supportive of there being no addons. Also, with the world being so dynamic and ever-changing, the points of interest where there may be valuable bosses and monsters to kill will change and there is potential for many nodes to provide these without scarcity across the entire world.

    I think preventing parsing addons creates a lot more personal player agency, instead of worrying about how you parse and what gear you're wearing to maximise your DPS, players can actually focus on mechanics and other aspects in the world that they can enjoy. I am a WoW player and I do enjoy the game but raiding at Heroic and Mythic difficulty and requiring addons like Deadly Boss Mods, Details and Exorcus Raid tools to participate and not be at a disadvantage was a major turn off for me, aswell as the fact that it's impossible to entirely balance all classes made me feel like I was making a wrong choice for playing a class I actually enjoyed rather than one that parsed well consistently despite me doing mechanically well on a fight.

    Realistically it sounds like the game you're looking for is the generic carrot on a stick MMO like World of Warcraft, it doesn't sound like you want to embrace the systems AOC is advertising. There is a lot more to a High-Fantasy MMORPG than just gear and parsing competition.

    With no disrespect, you do sound like a parsing drone and your enjoyment seems to derive from competitiveness rather than from the game having engaging systems. If they made the game more in line with what you're asking then it wouldn't be the unique experience they've advertised and I would personally prefer that not to be the case

    I agree with all of this. We need interaction, friction and risks. We need not being able to isolate ourselves from other players and their decisions.
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