My feedback, what I would like to be changed

Questing
None cares about dialog paths.
Let players just accept quests.
AI, Mobs
Change mobs attack distance.
They should see you a bit farther.
I don't know if mobs tagging is a thing, but I recommend including it.
Death penalty
Add respawn timer, or wow like go to the corps system to prevent people from respawning too fast and killing bosses without any penalty.
Wipes should be a normal thing.
Social emotes
I recommend adding if there aren't social emotes.
Game play combat, movement
Player should be able to noclip via another player. I don't see any reason why not. This only creates problems as body blocking trolls and exploits. If the player wants to stop you he should attack you by rooting you or slow you down by dizziness or what not.
Also watching 4k gameplay video I saw you get stuck in the rock. I would recommend you to activate noclip between doodads and player if he stuck. (I assume you guys will sort it out)
Raiding, dungeons, PVE
Add a distribution system for loot.
Simple need/greed/pass system for dungeons (for small groups) and leader loot distribution, and roll system for raids.
Some boss spells should be interruptable.
PVP
Skills should be interruptable with fear and so on.
Also, don't forget to add various dot skills to the game. That would create a need for PVP orientated enchants, and items for fire, shadow, cold resistance and so on.
Art direction (spicy opinion)
Guys can you make a bit settle art direction. Not everyone likes Linage, hentai, and karate, ninja, anime swinging, or casting skills. Melee, casting attacks should be simple and feel hitting hard, but not over the top anime bs. (more realistic please)
You should feel more to the ground.
Make simpler and poorer looking gear and items, mounts. Not everyone should be with the golden set riding rainbow horse.
Low-level stuff should be more to ground. Also, mounts should be more simplistic. Simple brown, black, gray horses or griffins.
Only after dungeons and raids, you should get that spicy and rare looking content.

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Comments

Peon501

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

While it's fine to share opinions and suggestions on the forum, because obviously we're all excited and here for the same reason (we want our dream game!) I think it's important to check out what the current direction of the game is and the reasoning behind that direction.

Check out this dude, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUBV64rrQSIFjorua7sMsg big fan of his on youtube and he's very active on the forums too, he's got lots of into on the game and frequent updates. Good video size, very succinct no time wasting.

A lot of us are really excited and enthusiastic about the collision system because of the complexity and level of skill it adds to PvP.

Games where there is no collision, I find PvP silly and boring. Hilariously I can just walk through anyone, meaning there is no real "flanking" or "front" or "back" lines.. There's just blobs, and very little strategy that can be applied. This is a nice change to that, for those of us who are bored of the simplified battles and want something more interesting and complicated, with more strategy involved.

ty. I will check this out.

Songcaller

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

Games where there is no collision, I find PvP silly and boring. Hilariously I can just walk through anyone, meaning there is no real "flanking" or "front" or "back" lines.. There's just blobs, and very little strategy that can be applied. This is a nice change to that, for those of us who are bored of the simplified battles and want something more interesting and complicated, with more strategy involved.

Again, the combat is simplistic at present. The Boss fights we've seen have no phases, no knockdowns. Nothing of substantial issue - Just tank and spank plus tank and spank the adds. The game is in development.

Steven has mentioned ideas about positioning (Being on a hill affecting combat) and seasons changing styles of combat. In PvP everyone should be moving, except a lot of skills we've seen are stationary skills. Collision won't dictate what strategies can be used but the static skills will do. Collision is lush in an active combat system but we are being given a Hybrid Combat System. Until we see or experience The Hybrid Combat system it is difficult to say how effective it will be.

Aardvark

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

While it's fine to share opinions and suggestions on the forum, because obviously we're all excited and here for the same reason (we want our dream game!) I think it's important to check out what the current direction of the game is and the reasoning behind that direction.

Check out this dude, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUBV64rrQSIFjorua7sMsg big fan of his on youtube and he's very active on the forums too, he's got lots of into on the game and frequent updates. Good video size, very succinct no time wasting.

A lot of us are really excited and enthusiastic about the collision system because of the complexity and level of skill it adds to PvP.

Games where there is no collision, I find PvP silly and boring. Hilariously I can just walk through anyone, meaning there is no real "flanking" or "front" or "back" lines.. There's just blobs, and very little strategy that can be applied. This is a nice change to that, for those of us who are bored of the simplified battles and want something more interesting and complicated, with more strategy involved.

So your solution in a pvx game is to hose over pve and cities in favor of pvp. That would not be pvx game that would a pvp game. If this is going to be pvx we can’t make everything else in the game give way to pvp.

Lafi

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

Games where there is no collision, I find PvP silly and boring. Hilariously I can just walk through anyone, meaning there is no real "flanking" or "front" or "back" lines.. There's just blobs, and very little strategy that can be applied. This is a nice change to that, for those of us who are bored of the simplified battles and want something more interesting and complicated, with more strategy involved.

an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

mcstackerson

Peon501 wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

Peon501 wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

Noclip is out, collision is in, as far as I recall. Something I support.

A lot of the other suggestions sound like you've come fresh from World of Warcraft. Welcome, I play that game too. AoC is a vastly different type of game, trying to cater to the more traditional MMO crowd who hasn't had a game for them in a very long time. A lot of things from WoW will not be present in this game because the entirety of the game is different.

Aardvark wrote: »

They have already said multiple groups for some which makes me wonder how scaleing will work. If one group is stomping the dungeon and one is barly getting though what will the scaling do? Get harder or easier?

I don't think there is any scaling in the game, not in that way.

The scaling mentioned (that I've seen) was in reference to things deeper in dungeons spawning at higher levels than things near the entrance/exit to dungeons. Things won't be changing levels based on your level, to the best of my knowledge.

So if more than one group are in the same dungeon, nothing will be getting harder or easier, you will simply both be sharing the same space. The dungeons are more open, and less linear/on-tracks like, for example, a WoW dungeon where you go through in a straight line until the end. The way it was described I pictured more of an old Everquest or Ultima Online dungeon, where you sort of just go to the big dangerous area and fight something somewhere in it until it's home time, and sometimes you attempt the or a boss if your group feels up for it.

The other AoC age of conan had to take out collision as its griefing waiting to happen. They devs even showed how to use it as griefing in the video when they physically blocked the door to go vote...the only way people could get in was by attacking them in mass. Am I the only one that remembers people getting on their elephant mount and telling it to sit side by side blocking the auction house and if you dared to attack them the guards would 1 shot you...

I think guilds will block all doors with massive groups and will overtake all nodes that way.

a couple of things,
blocking is momentum based - if you use charge and have enough momentum, you'll push people out the way.
if you see people doing that, kill them - guild v guild, node vs node or flag.

player blocking is not an issue on that front at all.
furthermore it is very good at reducing zerg impacts.
your healers wont be able to keep everyone alive.

I am skeptical of that. I am quite sure everyone won't be able to overpower and vote like that.
I think collisions aren't needed. PVP players should use their skills as rooting, fearing, and so on to stop another team. Collision won't stop players from passing each other going to destination anyway.

If it wont stop people then what's the issue?

So having a bunch of hard CCs is better? are you serious? I'd rather have the ability to get between my opponent and even if it's not that much, I still something i can always try to do instead of having to rely on CCs and waiting for their cooldowns.

I also think collision fits the gameplay and find it silly when people can walk through each other.

Songcaller

Lafi wrote: »

an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

If a line of Tanks is facing my PvP Crew, I'd send forward the Hard Counterpart to kill the Tanks. The tanks would all be decimated and then the opponents would be dead. In Ashes you can latch onto to players and pull them. In Warhammer Online I used to latch onto healers and pull them into my PvP Team. Healers were then decimated by the whole Raid. It is difficult to explain the tactics Ashes will require until I've tested the game. I'm in no rush but I suspect blanket Tactics will be useless tactics.

HazardNumberSeven

Aardvark wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

While it's fine to share opinions and suggestions on the forum, because obviously we're all excited and here for the same reason (we want our dream game!) I think it's important to check out what the current direction of the game is and the reasoning behind that direction.

Check out this dude, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUBV64rrQSIFjorua7sMsg big fan of his on youtube and he's very active on the forums too, he's got lots of into on the game and frequent updates. Good video size, very succinct no time wasting.

A lot of us are really excited and enthusiastic about the collision system because of the complexity and level of skill it adds to PvP.

Games where there is no collision, I find PvP silly and boring. Hilariously I can just walk through anyone, meaning there is no real "flanking" or "front" or "back" lines.. There's just blobs, and very little strategy that can be applied. This is a nice change to that, for those of us who are bored of the simplified battles and want something more interesting and complicated, with more strategy involved.

So your solution in a pvx game is to hose over pve and cities in favor of pvp. That would not be pvx game that would a pvp game. If this is going to be pvx we can’t make everything else in the game give way to pvp.

No, that is not my solution. I did not offer a solution nor did I present a problem. You may have quoted the wrong person or posted in the wrong thread.

HazardNumberSeven

Lafi wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

Games where there is no collision, I find PvP silly and boring. Hilariously I can just walk through anyone, meaning there is no real "flanking" or "front" or "back" lines.. There's just blobs, and very little strategy that can be applied. This is a nice change to that, for those of us who are bored of the simplified battles and want something more interesting and complicated, with more strategy involved.

an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

I agree 100%

mcstackerson

Neurath wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

If a line of Tanks is facing my PvP Crew, I'd send forward the Hard Counterpart to kill the Tanks. The tanks would all be decimated and then the opponents would be dead. In Ashes you can latch onto to players and pull them. In Warhammer Online I used to latch onto healers and pull them into my PvP Team. Healers were then decimated by the whole Raid. It is difficult to explain the tactics Ashes will require until I've tested the game. I'm in no rush but I suspect blanket Tactics will be useless tactics.

What if the tank line hard counters your hard counter?

Peon501

Ok guys. Let's shift the discussion to Death penalty
What do you think about my point?
Also, watching the game footage I saw in combat resurrection.
That might affect PVE quite drastically.
What's your take on that?

Songcaller

mcstackerson wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

If a line of Tanks is facing my PvP Crew, I'd send forward the Hard Counterpart to kill the Tanks. The tanks would all be decimated and then the opponents would be dead. In Ashes you can latch onto to players and pull them. In Warhammer Online I used to latch onto healers and pull them into my PvP Team. Healers were then decimated by the whole Raid. It is difficult to explain the tactics Ashes will require until I've tested the game. I'm in no rush but I suspect blanket Tactics will be useless tactics.

What if the tank line hard counters your hard counter?

Then we'd hard counter the hard counter to match the hard counter. If the Hard Counter is a ranged class, then the Tank Line can be hit at max range and their ranged classes would be out of range.

If you've heard of The Battle of Hastings, then tank lines were drawn from the Shield Walls and slaughtered.

If Tanks are just going to stand in a line then they can be picked off, focussed down or simply avoided. If the tank wall is in a breach (No flanking abilities) then other tactics would have to be deployed. In PvP communication is required even more than in a PvE Raid. I cannot possibly explain every facet and every tactic deployed in such circumstances. A Tank Wall may elongate a battle but a Tank Wall may shrink some battle times. I appreciate your question, I love PvP and all PvP entails.

Nagash

mcstackerson wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

If a line of Tanks is facing my PvP Crew, I'd send forward the Hard Counterpart to kill the Tanks. The tanks would all be decimated and then the opponents would be dead. In Ashes you can latch onto to players and pull them. In Warhammer Online I used to latch onto healers and pull them into my PvP Team. Healers were then decimated by the whole Raid. It is difficult to explain the tactics Ashes will require until I've tested the game. I'm in no rush but I suspect blanket Tactics will be useless tactics.

What if the tank line hard counters your hard counter?

then we plan around their hard counter and hard counter their hard counter

Songcaller

Nagash wrote: »

then we plan around their hard counter and hard counter their hard counter

Awesome sauce Nagash.

HazardNumberSeven

Will have to wait until I get to try out the beta before I have much else to offer. Just too early for me to tell at this point, I can only say what I like in mmos and what I don't like.

mcstackerson

Peon501 wrote: »

Ok guys. Let's shift the discussion to Death penalty
What do you think about my point?
Also, watching the game footage I saw in combat resurrection.
That might affect PVE quite drastically.
What's your take on that?

I like the more punishing system of ashes and from what we know, there are already respawn points so you already will need to run back to the boss. Yes, the cleric is able to rez in combat but it's on a decent cooldown like you would expect for a BR.

Peon501

Peon501 wrote: »

Ok guys. Let's shift the discussion to Death penalty
What do you think about my point?
Also, watching the game footage I saw in combat resurrection.
That might affect PVE quite drastically.
What's your take on that?

Also looking at gameplay I could see teleportation skill.
I would prefer 2 or more players opening portals over teleportation skills because that would delay people resurrecting at the respawning location and getting instant tp to the boss(in combat)

Peon501

Peon501 wrote: »

Peon501 wrote: »

Ok guys. Let's shift the discussion to Death penalty
What do you think about my point?
Also, watching the game footage I saw in combat resurrection.
That might affect PVE quite drastically.
What's your take on that?

Also looking at gameplay I could see teleportation skill.
I would prefer 2 or more players opening portals over teleportation skills because that would delay people resurrecting at the respawning location and getting instant tp to the boss(in combat)

Also, it should be off combat skill.

Lafi

Neurath wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

Neurath wrote: »

If a line of Tanks is facing my PvP Crew, I'd send forward the Hard Counterpart to kill the Tanks. The tanks would all be decimated and then the opponents would be dead.

this assumes nobody else does any moving or attacks and you just get free picks, if that happens then the people that made that play deserve a loss, simple as that.
however a counterpart to tanks, the point of the tank is to be able to lock people down and be a wall. you'd send a zerg into a wall of tanks - great the wall of tanks did their job lol.

Neurath wrote: »

In Ashes you can latch onto to players and pull them. In Warhammer Online I used to latch onto healers and pull them into my PvP Team. Healers were then decimated by the whole Raid. It is difficult to explain the tactics Ashes will require until I've tested the game.

this assumes that pulling someone wont be 1st target hit or the pull getting BLOCKED by other players.
which isn't the case unless you get a cheeky flank on the enemy backline and nobody is in the way. then sure, good pick nice angle. but you're not gonna just pull that healer from the middle of a zerg with 4 lines of players in front and behind.

Nagash

Neurath wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

then we plan around their hard counter and hard counter their hard counter

Awesome sauce Nagash.

Thank you, nice to know someone got it

Namil

First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics will be a disservice.

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