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My feedback, what I would like to be changed

2

Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    Neurath wrote: »
    Lafi wrote: »
    an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
    EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
    whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
    GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
    cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

    If a line of Tanks is facing my PvP Crew, I'd send forward the Hard Counterpart to kill the Tanks. The tanks would all be decimated and then the opponents would be dead. In Ashes you can latch onto to players and pull them. In Warhammer Online I used to latch onto healers and pull them into my PvP Team. Healers were then decimated by the whole Raid. It is difficult to explain the tactics Ashes will require until I've tested the game. I'm in no rush but I suspect blanket Tactics will be useless tactics.

    What if the tank line hard counters your hard counter?

    Then we'd hard counter the hard counter to match the hard counter. If the Hard Counter is a ranged class, then the Tank Line can be hit at max range and their ranged classes would be out of range.

    If you've heard of The Battle of Hastings, then tank lines were drawn from the Shield Walls and slaughtered.

    If Tanks are just going to stand in a line then they can be picked off, focussed down or simply avoided. If the tank wall is in a breach (No flanking abilities) then other tactics would have to be deployed. In PvP communication is required even more than in a PvE Raid. I cannot possibly explain every facet and every tactic deployed in such circumstances. A Tank Wall may elongate a battle but a Tank Wall may shrink some battle times. I appreciate your question, I love PvP and all PvP entails.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Lafi wrote: »
    an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
    EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
    whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
    GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
    cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.

    If a line of Tanks is facing my PvP Crew, I'd send forward the Hard Counterpart to kill the Tanks. The tanks would all be decimated and then the opponents would be dead. In Ashes you can latch onto to players and pull them. In Warhammer Online I used to latch onto healers and pull them into my PvP Team. Healers were then decimated by the whole Raid. It is difficult to explain the tactics Ashes will require until I've tested the game. I'm in no rush but I suspect blanket Tactics will be useless tactics.

    What if the tank line hard counters your hard counter?

    then we plan around their hard counter and hard counter their hard counter
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nagash wrote: »
    then we plan around their hard counter and hard counter their hard counter

    Awesome sauce Nagash.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Will have to wait until I get to try out the beta before I have much else to offer. Just too early for me to tell at this point, I can only say what I like in mmos and what I don't like.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Ok guys. Let's shift the discussion to Death penalty
    What do you think about my point?
    Also, watching the game footage I saw in combat resurrection.
    That might affect PVE quite drastically.
    What's your take on that?

    I like the more punishing system of ashes and from what we know, there are already respawn points so you already will need to run back to the boss. Yes, the cleric is able to rez in combat but it's on a decent cooldown like you would expect for a BR.
  • Peon501Peon501 Member
    edited July 2020
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Ok guys. Let's shift the discussion to Death penalty
    What do you think about my point?
    Also, watching the game footage I saw in combat resurrection.
    That might affect PVE quite drastically.
    What's your take on that?
    Also looking at gameplay I could see teleportation skill.
    I would prefer 2 or more players opening portals over teleportation skills because that would delay people resurrecting at the respawning location and getting instant tp to the boss(in combat)
  • Peon501 wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Ok guys. Let's shift the discussion to Death penalty
    What do you think about my point?
    Also, watching the game footage I saw in combat resurrection.
    That might affect PVE quite drastically.
    What's your take on that?
    Also looking at gameplay I could see teleportation skill.
    I would prefer 2 or more players opening portals over teleportation skills because that would delay people resurrecting at the respawning location and getting instant tp to the boss(in combat)

    Also, it should be off combat skill.
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Lafi wrote: »
    an example, in non-blocking mmo's there is NO benefit in sending a line of tanks forward to blockade the enemy, in AoC this will be an entirely strategic move that could save the lives of your healers and be the different between a win and loss.
    EVERY player then becomes valuable and position becomes FAR more important than games without it.
    whats the point in class and role diversity if you can just walk through people and spike everyone dead?
    GW2 is like this, its boring. very boring. you follow the leader and juggle the enemy max range and wait for them to mis-step or to push then you just 100-0 people with 30-50 skills in 1 area.
    cant have everyone get 1 shot if only a few people are in range cos they're blocked by teammates too.
    Neurath wrote: »
    If a line of Tanks is facing my PvP Crew, I'd send forward the Hard Counterpart to kill the Tanks. The tanks would all be decimated and then the opponents would be dead.
    this assumes nobody else does any moving or attacks and you just get free picks, if that happens then the people that made that play deserve a loss, simple as that.
    however a counterpart to tanks, the point of the tank is to be able to lock people down and be a wall. you'd send a zerg into a wall of tanks - great the wall of tanks did their job lol.
    Neurath wrote: »
    In Ashes you can latch onto to players and pull them. In Warhammer Online I used to latch onto healers and pull them into my PvP Team. Healers were then decimated by the whole Raid. It is difficult to explain the tactics Ashes will require until I've tested the game.
    this assumes that pulling someone wont be 1st target hit or the pull getting BLOCKED by other players.
    which isn't the case unless you get a cheeky flank on the enemy backline and nobody is in the way. then sure, good pick nice angle. but you're not gonna just pull that healer from the middle of a zerg with 4 lines of players in front and behind.
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    then we plan around their hard counter and hard counter their hard counter

    Awesome sauce Nagash.

    Thank you, nice to know someone got it
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • NamilNamil Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

    There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

    Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

    I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

    As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

    The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

    On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics will be a disservice.
  • Peon501Peon501 Member
    edited July 2020
    Namil wrote: »
    First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

    There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

    Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

    I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

    As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

    The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

    On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics with be a disservice.

    I am not a fan of stylized art and animations. I think they should tone it down.
    Simplicity gives a lot of depth to the game.
    You can have a good game without a full cluster of rainbow items in every corner.

    It is fine to have high-fantasy mounts or items, but I would leave it to the end game and make them very rare.
    Most of players/game citizens should wear simple man-made stuff.
    Not every item should be forged of GOD in heavens and so on.

    I think a player should start with simple peasant items and by playing, exploring, conquering the world, and socializing dictate what he becomes and what gear he wears.
    Items and weapons should reflect that.
    When everyone walks with insane and flashy gear, it loses its meaning in the world.





  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Namil wrote: »
    First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

    There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

    Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

    I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

    As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

    The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

    On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics with be a disservice.

    I am not a fan of stylized art and animations. I think they should tone it down.
    Simplicity gives a lot of depth to the game.
    You can have a good game without a full cluster of rainbow items in every corner.

    It is fine to have high-fantasy mounts or items, but I would leave it to the end game and make them very rare.
    Most of players/game citizens should wear simple man-made stuff.
    Not every item should be forged of GOD in heavens and so on.

    I think a player should start with simple peasant items and by playing, exploring, conquering the world, and socializing dictate what he becomes and what gear he wears.
    Items and weapons should reflect that.
    When everyone walks with insane and flashy gear, it loses its meaning in the world.





    With a cosmetics store you can forget about nice and fancy being rare
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    It's a pretty high-fantasy high-magic setting, so expecting most players to walk around in peasant rags, I think, will not be the case...

    Unless they buy a peasant rag cosmetic. I would.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    @Lafi

    If you are using Tanks to block then it is a waste of time. The Tanks should be hard countering whatever class they are a Hard Counter to. If you are stacked in lines then AoEs would obliterate you. I'm not sure if you mentioned the massed stacks of skills in other games but if the foes are stacked in a neat little area then what else do you expect?

    You seem to forget, Glass Cannons might not be good at blocking but any class can block (In Terms of Collision). A battle could be stretched across a massive area, people flee from surges, people surge to block surges and people wait for the opportunity to surge.

    You seem to think no other game has been capable of using Tank Walls. I can tell you in other games where Tank Walls are possible, the Tankiest Tanks are ignored because they do very little damage. In fact, the tankiest tanks are left until the end to be overwhelmed - Sometimes they are left to walk off as the rest of their raid has been wiped.

    A tank wall could be useable in specific circumstances, but, if you expect a tank wall to hold a Node - or worse, a Castle, you will get the biggest shock of your life. As I have said, I haven't tested the combat in the MMO, I'm not sure how the pull works, but if you think you'll never be pulled then there's another problem. Even the tanks in the tank wall could be pulled by counter-tanks, isolated and massacred.

    Edit: I recall you saying yesterday that Flying Mounts can do fire attacks, nicely stacked enemies would make a lovely target for a Flying Mount to scorch.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Aardvark wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Namil wrote: »
    First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

    There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

    Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

    I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

    As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

    The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

    On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics with be a disservice.

    I am not a fan of stylized art and animations. I think they should tone it down.
    Simplicity gives a lot of depth to the game.
    You can have a good game without a full cluster of rainbow items in every corner.

    It is fine to have high-fantasy mounts or items, but I would leave it to the end game and make them very rare.
    Most of players/game citizens should wear simple man-made stuff.
    Not every item should be forged of GOD in heavens and so on.

    I think a player should start with simple peasant items and by playing, exploring, conquering the world, and socializing dictate what he becomes and what gear he wears.
    Items and weapons should reflect that.
    When everyone walks with insane and flashy gear, it loses its meaning in the world.

    With a cosmetics store, you can forget about nice and fancy being rare

    Well, you can do cosmetics stores the right way by letting to buy only specific pets and mounts, but these items should look like a poorer version of OG stuff you get by griding and playing the game the right way.
  • Peon501Peon501 Member
    edited July 2020
    It's a pretty high-fantasy high-magic setting, so expecting most players to walk around in peasant rags, I think, will not be the case...

    Unless they buy a peasant rag cosmetic. I would.

    how would you call the world of warcraft? it is a fantasy magical game, but you need to grind to become a top-notch big dick Beast player respected in a whole server.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Namil wrote: »
    First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

    There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

    Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

    I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

    As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

    The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

    On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics with be a disservice.

    I am not a fan of stylized art and animations. I think they should tone it down.
    Simplicity gives a lot of depth to the game.
    You can have a good game without a full cluster of rainbow items in every corner.

    It is fine to have high-fantasy mounts or items, but I would leave it to the end game and make them very rare.
    Most of players/game citizens should wear simple man-made stuff.
    Not every item should be forged of GOD in heavens and so on.

    I think a player should start with simple peasant items and by playing, exploring, conquering the world, and socializing dictate what he becomes and what gear he wears.
    Items and weapons should reflect that.
    When everyone walks with insane and flashy gear, it loses its meaning in the world.

    With a cosmetics store, you can forget about nice and fancy being rare

    Well, you can do cosmetics stores the right way by letting to buy only specific pets and mounts, but these items should look like a poorer version of OG stuff you get by griding and playing the game the right way.
    Since when is dong a cosmetic store the right way making it so almost none ever buys from it ? That would defeat the purpose of having it
  • Aardvark wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Namil wrote: »
    First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

    There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

    Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

    I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

    As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

    The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

    On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics with be a disservice.

    I am not a fan of stylized art and animations. I think they should tone it down.
    Simplicity gives a lot of depth to the game.
    You can have a good game without a full cluster of rainbow items in every corner.

    It is fine to have high-fantasy mounts or items, but I would leave it to the end game and make them very rare.
    Most of players/game citizens should wear simple man-made stuff.
    Not every item should be forged of GOD in heavens and so on.

    I think a player should start with simple peasant items and by playing, exploring, conquering the world, and socializing dictate what he becomes and what gear he wears.
    Items and weapons should reflect that.
    When everyone walks with insane and flashy gear, it loses its meaning in the world.

    With a cosmetics store, you can forget about nice and fancy being rare

    Well, you can do cosmetics stores the right way by letting to buy only specific pets and mounts, but these items should look like a poorer version of OG stuff you get by griding and playing the game the right way.
    Since when is dong a cosmetic store the right way making it so almost none ever buys from it? That would defeat the purpose of having it

    Well, cosmetics can be based on specific events and you buy them to show respect to the game and game devs and community. POE did it right. WoW has specific event-based mounts when you preorder the game and so on.
  • Peon501Peon501 Member
    edited July 2020
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Namil wrote: »
    First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

    There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

    Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

    I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

    As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

    The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

    On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics with be a disservice.

    I am not a fan of stylized art and animations. I think they should tone it down.
    Simplicity gives a lot of depth to the game.
    You can have a good game without a full cluster of rainbow items in every corner.

    It is fine to have high-fantasy mounts or items, but I would leave it to the end game and make them very rare.
    Most of players/game citizens should wear simple man-made stuff.
    Not every item should be forged of GOD in heavens and so on.

    I think a player should start with simple peasant items and by playing, exploring, conquering the world, and socializing dictate what he becomes and what gear he wears.
    Items and weapons should reflect that.
    When everyone walks with insane and flashy gear, it loses its meaning in the world.

    With a cosmetics store, you can forget about nice and fancy being rare

    Well, you can do cosmetics stores the right way by letting to buy only specific pets and mounts, but these items should look like a poorer version of OG stuff you get by griding and playing the game the right way.
    Since when is dong a cosmetic store the right way making it so almost none ever buys from it ? That would defeat the purpose of having it

    Like oh damn, that dude bought that event mount I respect him.
    Or that dude bought 50 dollars game supporter mount or cosmetic gear to support the game.
  • Aardvark wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Namil wrote: »
    First of all, I agree on the dialogue part. I usually read most quest text and would prefer to be able to read it all on one page rather than multiple dialogue boxes but I could probably get behind dialogue paths too.

    There's plenty of death penalty already in place for AOC when it releases, the Resurrection at corpse feature you saw in the gameplay is most likely for testing convenience while it's in pre-alpha/alpha/beta. Could you imagine trying to test your game, being murdered by a moose then having to run/fly all the way back to the zone you're trying to debug/polish?

    Player collisions isn't something which concerns me personally because they clearly know what the issues with having this enabled will be and I'm sure they have plans on how to combat these issues, there could even be something as simple as collision zones which enable/disable player collisions depending on the area they are in. About your point regarding collisions in PvP, in larger scale battlegrounds other than just arenas with smaller teams, the collisions will definitely matter because of the body count and there will most likely be root/fear/stun affects like you're requesting.

    I'd be absolutely surprised if there weren't social interaction commands like the ones you mentioned too and I'm 90% sure they've already mentioned implementing these aswell as objects players could pull out such as chairs and instruments (Don't quote me on the objects part).

    As for loot, I think with the world they're setting out with the idea of having limited materials then it will most likely be one group of loot which drop per monster rather than per player and without a looting management scheme I agree that could get messy. I'm not personally bias on any mob-drop scheme and could get behind loot per player or per group.

    The combat is something that will definitely require a lot of work visually and mechanically as you'd expect for the game being in the state that it currently is and I don't think it's something that can be criticised too heavily as of right now but knowing that Steven came from Archage as a more recent MMO then the combat inspiration will most likely follow suit similar to that which personally I'd love because the combat in Archage looks and feels very satisfying. I would rather the combat be more flashy than not.

    On the mounts, is there anything wrong with having a selection of high-fantasy mounts aswell as simpler ones like horses? It is a high-fantasy MMO afterall, having only the basics with be a disservice.

    I am not a fan of stylized art and animations. I think they should tone it down.
    Simplicity gives a lot of depth to the game.
    You can have a good game without a full cluster of rainbow items in every corner.

    It is fine to have high-fantasy mounts or items, but I would leave it to the end game and make them very rare.
    Most of players/game citizens should wear simple man-made stuff.
    Not every item should be forged of GOD in heavens and so on.

    I think a player should start with simple peasant items and by playing, exploring, conquering the world, and socializing dictate what he becomes and what gear he wears.
    Items and weapons should reflect that.
    When everyone walks with insane and flashy gear, it loses its meaning in the world.

    With a cosmetics store, you can forget about nice and fancy being rare

    Well, you can do cosmetics stores the right way by letting to buy only specific pets and mounts, but these items should look like a poorer version of OG stuff you get by griding and playing the game the right way.
    Since when is dong a cosmetic store the right way making it so almost none ever buys from it ? That would defeat the purpose of having it

    Or these items could be only for Role Play, but ofc not over the top.
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    @Lafi

    If you are using Tanks to block then it is a waste of time. The Tanks should be hard countering whatever class they are a Hard Counter to. If you are stacked in lines then AoEs would obliterate you. I'm not sure if you mentioned the massed stacks of skills in other games but if the foes are stacked in a neat little area then what else do you expect?

    You seem to forget, Glass Cannons might not be good at blocking but any class can block (In Terms of Collision). A battle could be stretched across a massive area, people flee from surges, people surge to block surges and people wait for the opportunity to surge.

    You seem to think no other game has been capable of using Tank Walls. I can tell you in other games where Tank Walls are possible, the Tankiest Tanks are ignored because they do very little damage. In fact, the tankiest tanks are left until the end to be overwhelmed - Sometimes they are left to walk off as the rest of their raid has been wiped.

    A tank wall could be useable in specific circumstances, but, if you expect a tank wall to hold a Node - or worse, a Castle, you will get the biggest shock of your life. As I have said, I haven't tested the combat in the MMO, I'm not sure how the pull works, but if you think you'll never be pulled then there's another problem. Even the tanks in the tank wall could be pulled by counter-tanks, isolated and massacred.

    Edit: I recall you saying yesterday that Flying Mounts can do fire attacks, nicely stacked enemies would make a lovely target for a Flying Mount to scorch.

    I agree on most of this, but i again said if a guild (or group of randoms for node siege lol) just watch their tank wall die then thats on the players for being apes lol.
    Of course you'd spike a shield wall or try to, however we have NO knowledge on how tanky a tank truly is, how impactful the actual blocking will be and also the blocking will make it very hard to spike all the players. In exchange they still block a path using their sturdier body.
    Never ever said anything about tank walls being unique or new, I've enjoyed my fair share of mount and blade, mordehau and similar titles playing with this exact method in pug matches before using ingame emotes to scream and setting fire to everything :)
    Regarding pulls, thats a reach about me thinking I'll never get pulled lol. I literally said 1 point about the impact on blocking for things like pulls. Especially since we know the harder CCs like pulls are most likely going to be skill shots == first hit = pulled. Thus we get blocking for hard CCs. Though i wont deny that whoever does get pulled is pretty ****ed :D
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Questing
    I like dialouge paths, it means players with a better understanding of the game will be the first ones to find the more interesting quests.

    Having an NPC standing around with a giant marker over their head is kind of stupid.
    AI, Mobs
    The game has it's own system instead of simple mob tagging.

    Also, mob attack radius will differ with mob type.
    Death penalty
    The death penalty that sees players lose HP, mana and stats on death will put a stop to players respawning to rejoin the encounter again too frequently.

    Also, the best mechanic to prevent this sort of thing is your placement of respawn locations.
    Social emotes
    The game has these.
    Game play combat, movement
    Collision is key to Ashes.

    This isn't a bad thing in any way. It prevents a lot of somewhat rediculous PvP tactics, and opens up some far more interesting ones to then be used.

    It will be an issue in raid level PvE, but this is an acceptable compromise and the game is better with it than without.
    Raiding, dungeons, PVE
    The game has a loot disrtribution system.
    PVP
    The game has interrupts.
    Art direction (spicy opinion)
    We haven't seen much in the way of low level weapons - these tend to not be overly exciting to players, so developers tend to not show them off pre-launch.

  • Really dont think people should be asking for change when we have seen so little of the game and how everything ties together.
    The problem with many new games is so many people try and get things catered to their playstyle personally but this is the first mmo in a long while that has the potential to please so many different playstyles.
  • noaani wrote: »
    Peon501 wrote: »
    Questing
    I like dialouge paths, it means players with a better understanding of the game will be the first ones to find the more interesting quests.

    Having an NPC standing around with a giant marker over their head is kind of stupid.
    AI, Mobs
    The game has it's own system instead of simple mob tagging.

    Also, mob attack radius will differ with mob type.
    Death penalty
    The death penalty that sees players lose HP, mana and stats on death will put a stop to players respawning to rejoin the encounter again too frequently.

    Also, the best mechanic to prevent this sort of thing is your placement of respawn locations.
    Social emotes
    The game has these.
    Game play combat, movement
    Collision is key to Ashes.

    This isn't a bad thing in any way. It prevents a lot of somewhat rediculous PvP tactics, and opens up some far more interesting ones to then be used.

    It will be an issue in raid level PvE, but this is an acceptable compromise and the game is better with it than without.
    Raiding, dungeons, PVE
    The game has a loot disrtribution system.
    PVP
    The game has interrupts.
    Art direction (spicy opinion)
    We haven't seen much in the way of low level weapons - these tend to not be overly exciting to players, so developers tend to not show them off pre-launch.
    The game has it's own system instead of simple mob tagging.
    By tagging, I meant if the mob is hit by you or your group loot becomes non-ninjable by randos.
    Are you talking about it?
    Can you go deeper into the tagging system?
    Death penalty
    The death penalty that sees players lose HP, mana and stats on death will put a stop to players respawning to rejoin the encounter again too frequently.
    By watching 4k video I realized that you can teleport players back.
    I think they should scrap that, or create portal teleportation system where you have to open a portal with a couple of players. Or make teleportation to non-combat skill.
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    I'm just parroting what I've heard in videos and on forums, so take with a grain of salt...

    But I think whoever does the most damage to a mob is the person/party that gets to loot it. I think that is the tagging system we might have.

    Also, the teleporting in the videos you saw was just for testing purposes so the devs can get back to showing the game off as quickly as possible. In the actual game if you die and aren't ressed, you're probably not going to just be able to show up back at the fight anytime soon without significant travel time.
  • I'm just parroting what I've heard in videos and on forums, so take with a grain of salt...

    But I think whoever does the most damage to a mob is the person/party that gets to loot it. I think that is the tagging system we might have.

    Also, the teleporting in the videos you saw was just for testing purposes so the devs can get back to showing the game off as quickly as possible. In the actual game if you die and aren't ressed, you're probably not going to just be able to show up back at the fight anytime soon without significant travel time.

    Can someone confirm or give more information?
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm just parroting what I've heard in videos and on forums, so take with a grain of salt...

    But I think whoever does the most damage to a mob is the person/party that gets to loot it. I think that is the tagging system we might have.

    .

    That would suck to be a tank healer or buffer then.
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    I'm just parroting what I've heard in videos and on forums, so take with a grain of salt...

    But I think whoever does the most damage to a mob is the person/party that gets to loot it. I think that is the tagging system we might have.

    .

    That would suck to be a tank healer or buffer then.

    Yeah, good point. A solo tank/healer/support will do less damage than a solo DPS, so that solo DPS could steal your kills I suppose.

    Not sure how they'll deal with that, but those seem to be the systems they're fleshing out this year so we'll probably find out soon!
  • GreatThodricGreatThodric Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Noclip is out, collision is in, as far as I recall. Something I support.

    A lot of the other suggestions sound like you've come fresh from World of Warcraft. Welcome, I play that game too. AoC is a vastly different type of game, trying to cater to the more traditional MMO crowd who hasn't had a game for them in a very long time. A lot of things from WoW will not be present in this game because the entirety of the game is different.
    Aardvark wrote: »
    They have already said multiple groups for some which makes me wonder how scaleing will work. If one group is stomping the dungeon and one is barly getting though what will the scaling do? Get harder or easier?

    I don't think there is any scaling in the game, not in that way.

    The scaling mentioned (that I've seen) was in reference to things deeper in dungeons spawning at higher levels than things near the entrance/exit to dungeons. Things won't be changing levels based on your level, to the best of my knowledge.

    So if more than one group are in the same dungeon, nothing will be getting harder or easier, you will simply both be sharing the same space. The dungeons are more open, and less linear/on-tracks like, for example, a WoW dungeon where you go through in a straight line until the end. The way it was described I pictured more of an old Everquest or Ultima Online dungeon, where you sort of just go to the big dangerous area and fight something somewhere in it until it's home time, and sometimes you attempt the or a boss if your group feels up for it.

    The other AoC age of conan had to take out collision as its griefing waiting to happen. They devs even showed how to use it as griefing in the video when they physically blocked the door to go vote...the only way people could get in was by attacking them in mass. Am I the only one that remembers people getting on their elephant mount and telling it to sit side by side blocking the auction house and if you dared to attack them the guards would 1 shot you...

    I feel like they could make come up with a compromise. I like the idea of having collisions and griefing could potentially be solved by either allowing players to push each other slightly (might be worse, idk) or to allow for a second long ability to noclip which can only be used in cities. Or maybe, if the character keeps walking at a blocking character, they eventually teleport through after, like, 3 seconds of pushing or something.
  • FathymFathym Member
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Noclip is out, collision is in, as far as I recall. Something I support.

    A lot of the other suggestions sound like you've come fresh from World of Warcraft. Welcome, I play that game too. AoC is a vastly different type of game, trying to cater to the more traditional MMO crowd who hasn't had a game for them in a very long time. A lot of things from WoW will not be present in this game because the entirety of the game is different.
    Aardvark wrote: »
    They have already said multiple groups for some which makes me wonder how scaleing will work. If one group is stomping the dungeon and one is barly getting though what will the scaling do? Get harder or easier?

    I don't think there is any scaling in the game, not in that way.

    The scaling mentioned (that I've seen) was in reference to things deeper in dungeons spawning at higher levels than things near the entrance/exit to dungeons. Things won't be changing levels based on your level, to the best of my knowledge.

    So if more than one group are in the same dungeon, nothing will be getting harder or easier, you will simply both be sharing the same space. The dungeons are more open, and less linear/on-tracks like, for example, a WoW dungeon where you go through in a straight line until the end. The way it was described I pictured more of an old Everquest or Ultima Online dungeon, where you sort of just go to the big dangerous area and fight something somewhere in it until it's home time, and sometimes you attempt the or a boss if your group feels up for it.

    The other AoC age of conan had to take out collision as its griefing waiting to happen. They devs even showed how to use it as griefing in the video when they physically blocked the door to go vote...the only way people could get in was by attacking them in mass. Am I the only one that remembers people getting on their elephant mount and telling it to sit side by side blocking the auction house and if you dared to attack them the guards would 1 shot you...

    I feel like they could make come up with a compromise. I like the idea of having collisions and griefing could potentially be solved by either allowing players to push each other slightly (might be worse, idk) or to allow for a second long ability to noclip which can only be used in cities. Or maybe, if the character keeps walking at a blocking character, they eventually teleport through after, like, 3 seconds of pushing or something.

    Give classes a good old Fus Ro Dah ability to to knock their asses out of the way. Problem solved.
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