PVP Corruption is a broken Prisoner's Dilemma
Nightly
Member
Technically (and it actually is a repeated game which most people get wrong about game theory), both parties benefit from engaging in the fight with each other, both go purple and take a reduction. However, as so many people who hate PVP have already described, they do not under and circumstances want to fight.
Currently anyone who doesnt want to fight can spite the attacker by dying a few times to rack up their corruption until they are readily killed with the current debuffs, or otherwise greatly inconvenienced. Ganking is nearly a non issue in MMOs except for a very slim minority, which is why i think the corruption is over-punishing.
PVP in MMOs has always been about resources. If I want to grind at the best exp/hr spot, and someone comes to contest, I will flag up and try to kill them. If they kill me, they deserve the spot and ill go somewhere else, if i beat them, im staying. If its close maybe i try a few more times. The problem comes when someone isnt strong enough to kill you for the spot but can keep taking mobs forcing you to kill them or leave anyway. NBD if you can just keep killing them over and over with only a reasonable nuisance. Similar experience to control rare gathering resources.
Maybe thing will work out where most people will fight back so that everyone loses less in the exchange, but i doubt it.
Currently anyone who doesnt want to fight can spite the attacker by dying a few times to rack up their corruption until they are readily killed with the current debuffs, or otherwise greatly inconvenienced. Ganking is nearly a non issue in MMOs except for a very slim minority, which is why i think the corruption is over-punishing.
PVP in MMOs has always been about resources. If I want to grind at the best exp/hr spot, and someone comes to contest, I will flag up and try to kill them. If they kill me, they deserve the spot and ill go somewhere else, if i beat them, im staying. If its close maybe i try a few more times. The problem comes when someone isnt strong enough to kill you for the spot but can keep taking mobs forcing you to kill them or leave anyway. NBD if you can just keep killing them over and over with only a reasonable nuisance. Similar experience to control rare gathering resources.
Maybe thing will work out where most people will fight back so that everyone loses less in the exchange, but i doubt it.
1
Comments
That's a pretty good joke there friend.
I think unless I am in a group I will often refuse just to smack the attacker with corruption as that is even better than defeating them
This is exactly the problem. Why would anyone pvp if this is the usual case? if this is a pvp game then lets not beat around the bush.
I will gladly meet you in a siege or arena or when my group is of simular size and I feel like it.
exactly! the corruption is designed to stop gankers from attacking noobs as it isn't profitable; take it out and ganking will annoy anyone mastering a gathering profession.
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
If they do that I want night elf for 50% faster ghost ball form.
"A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."
Since we haven't played with the systems yet, I can only use my imagination .. but I think there might be ways to combat being griefed by someone who is trying to just stack you up with corruption.
For example, you only get corruption if you kill them .. So you could still CC them or whatever to get the nodes/kills. You're playing aggressively here, but you haven't killed and looted them. If they try to do the same to you, then they are a combatant and you can put an end to their trolling.
Why would anyone attack you for no reason? Ultimately, a few people who want to go deep corruption might do this, but thats what, a fraction of a percent of all players? We can design a system that punishes these players without breaking the necessary PVP to compete for the best exp and resources.
Why would anyone attack you for no reason? On every game with open world pvp I have ever played ...because you were there was the only reason they ever needed
ha ha ha, you were joking, right? People sometimes kill for no reason, even with heavy consequences, if you deny that then you deny what happens in many MMOs.
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
Yeah unfortunately this is probably the case, just look at Black Desert Online. They removed exp penalty from being killed by players after only a few months of NA launch. After that you could freely grief pvpers at the best grind spot. Sure maybe you get 2-3 kills if you are at max karma but after that its over unless you are willing to go quite red.
The natural solution: beat someone down to low health and keep them CCd until the mobs kill them and they lose EXP anyway.
Can we all agree that this is a broken system and healthy pvp would be a better outcome for a pvx game?
But a common tactic was, if you had to carry siege or house deeds or lots of gold, to do it naked because you seem like less valuable of a target. So nakeds were targeted, because you never know... On top of that, they could be spies.
So far we know that mats and spying are both very strong reasons to attack someone who has done nothing to you, not even compete for resources. Spying could be a huge problem if there's no way to counteract it without stacking corruption. Corruption that was not intended for you, because you weren't griefing.
This is a part of the system that worries me, but after hearing Steven speak about WHY he has the system in the first place, I'm pretty sure if this is a problem they'll do something about it.
There will be plenty of times you think you were killed by someone for no reason, but they actually had a very good reason.
BUT!
I support the corruption system because I like the idea behind it, and I respect the PvE players who also want to share this world with me, but if there was a PvP server with no corruption, you know I'd be on it like ants on sugar.
1) Don't target low levels
2) If someone refuses to fight back walk away before you kill them
Great, I dont plan on killing low level players. What should i do when someone starts competing for my grind spots? Or tries to steal my ore/plants/etc.
At first i probably do ask: "I was here first, hop please"
Lets be honest though, if they are already competing they are not willing to go somewhere else. When he tells me to fuck off theres not much recourse to be had.
Well it seems that as a mage you both have a banish and CCs. Banish or CC them and hit the ore.
Still killin' it with these jokes, friend.
It had a very well balanced risk vs reward system.
I think this is a good idea - have the person spawn far away if green so they don't continually come back and karma bomb the attacker.
But I also think if balanced correctly, the death penalty can help as well. If they die while green, they have a 50% higher death penalty than if they flag up and attack back. Gaining XP debt, dropping gatherables, stat loss, etc. If that's balanced well enough it should be a deterrent to merely standing there and forcing someone to go red. At the very least if they know they'll die, might as well flag up and try to defend themselves.
Otherwise, I almost wonder with that death penalty if they might regret karma bombing the person, because they'd just continue to gain XP debt and lose stats/gatherables. I mean if they're out there trying to farm items to craft or whatever, continually dying is pointless because you'll be losing more than you gain.
Yes this is an important note that I think not everyone realizes. You won't get corruption for hitting someone, only upon their death. That's huge IMO.
Ya i was thinking about dipping a little bit into all three (item loss, xp loss, time loss from getting corpse) so each one doesn't have to be as punishing on the player while, as whole being enough of a headache to prevent griefing.
For example: Without a corpse walk, you would most likely have to hit a player with an XP dept of around 15 minutes of playtime along with the item drops to prevent griefing. If, however, you add a corpse walk, you make the corpse walk 6 minutes and add an XP debt of 6 minutes. This penalizes the player less while maintaining the same effect. My numbers may be slightly off but I think the premise makes sense.
Which brings in trolling/griefing type #2
Wait til they pull that big ass quest mob they need to kill hit them from behind until they are at 10% health then leave them alone and it kills them. Every time they pull it do it again and again and you can grief for an unlimited time with no corruption. This is clearly a huge hole in the system
If you're already purple and some green player walks by into your AoE, they can also repeatedly grief you and force you red if all it takes is one hit. One hit is too easy to grief with and force corruption on someone who didn't want it.
If someone kills you once with mobs when you were at 10% health, I'm not sure that's griefing. If they do it over and over again that might be, but I'd have to ask why you're going back to that same spot over and over and letting them do it? Either kill them when you get back, or don't go back. That's a far easier problem to solve than the former.
Yes its a hole. A huge hole? Not so much. Just make it count as a PK if you did greater than 50% of their health in damage. If you already hit them for half of their health that shows intent to kill.