Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!
Options
Corruption System
Xrael
Member
How are streamers and other content creators going to make content if they can be attacked by players 24/7?
How does the system prevent players from griefing others? For e.g, a high level character could just repeatedly attack a low level character and not kill him but leave him at a low enough hp that he cannot quest anymore. The higher level player wont gain any corruption but the lower level player will be forced to heal up constantly and it will essentially ruin their game play.
How exactly are u going to deal with these issues?
I have a few suggestions to combat this:
Players that belong to the same node/allied nodes cannot attack each other, they can only duel each other with mutual consent. If this is implemented, it would favor being in an alliance more so than being against other nodes. So it is important to balance this out by giving other benefits if ur at odds with a node.
Make it so that if someone is like 10 or 20 levels above another (depends on how much difference every level makes), they shouldn't be able to attack the other person and vice versa.
And the final thing is to make it so that there is a threshold, a threshold for the amount of player damage u can take, in a time frame, that increases appropriately with level. When that threshold is reached, that player should not be attackable for a while and this immunity should only be removed when the player fights back i.e when they target another player with a skill or effect, be it an ally or enemy. This has to exist as otherwise bards and clerics would abuse this system. The immunity should also be paused when they enter a pvp instance and should resume when they finish.
What do u guys think?
How does the system prevent players from griefing others? For e.g, a high level character could just repeatedly attack a low level character and not kill him but leave him at a low enough hp that he cannot quest anymore. The higher level player wont gain any corruption but the lower level player will be forced to heal up constantly and it will essentially ruin their game play.
How exactly are u going to deal with these issues?
I have a few suggestions to combat this:
Players that belong to the same node/allied nodes cannot attack each other, they can only duel each other with mutual consent. If this is implemented, it would favor being in an alliance more so than being against other nodes. So it is important to balance this out by giving other benefits if ur at odds with a node.
Make it so that if someone is like 10 or 20 levels above another (depends on how much difference every level makes), they shouldn't be able to attack the other person and vice versa.
And the final thing is to make it so that there is a threshold, a threshold for the amount of player damage u can take, in a time frame, that increases appropriately with level. When that threshold is reached, that player should not be attackable for a while and this immunity should only be removed when the player fights back i.e when they target another player with a skill or effect, be it an ally or enemy. This has to exist as otherwise bards and clerics would abuse this system. The immunity should also be paused when they enter a pvp instance and should resume when they finish.
What do u guys think?
1
Comments
Making invulnerable players for streamers is a bad idea. Streamers should play the same game we all play. They are not forced to stream.
Edit: There is a threshold on the amount of damage you can take in a timeframe - its called Character Death.
There are enough punishments for player PvP and PK-ing lower level players. The easiest solution i can think of to fix players griefing each other like that:
1. Player A attacks player B
2. Player B doesn't fight back
3. Player A is now purple
4. If Player B dies from a monster in a set amount of time (say 2 minutes) then Player A gets corruption and becomes red receiving all of the debufs and statuses of a red player.
You'd say, well that's not fair.. Yea, it's not but it will make you think twice before you start griefing players like that.
Oh so health wont be displayed huh? I think that's a fairly decent solution for players.
But as for ur comment on streamers, i completely disagree. The viewers wont care if they are being targeted by bounty hunters or not. Say a 1000 viewers of a particular streamer exist on a server and this streamer decides to create a character on that server. When the streamer is playing, most of these players can create new characters (so losing gear isn't as punishing because nobody will want ur gear), along side the streamer and focus on killing the streamer repeatedly no matter the punishment. The pvp ineffectiveness, or the bounty hunters wont matter in this case as there will simply be too many to deal with and the streamer's gameplay experience will be ruined.
It would be difficult for a griefer to continue to grief if they are corrupted and lose their items. It would be more entertaining if the streamer killed the griefer rather than being a care bear and moaning about Griefers.
What if that PvP immune person is my enemy, a spy, trolling me, griefing me by stealing kills, or competing with me by taking the resources nodes I was going to take?
I'll break your ideas down into a list so I can respond to them properly.
1. Players that belong to the same node/allied nodes cannot attack each other, they can only duel each other with mutual consent.
A: Sorry. Doesn't seem possible. The game is designed with PvP as one of the core elements, and rendering people PvP immune unbalances the whole game in so many ways, I can't even be bothered listing them all.
2. Make it so that if someone is like 10 or 20 levels above another (depends on how much difference every level makes), they shouldn't be able to attack the other person and vice versa.
A: Nope. Again, PvP is a part of the game and removing it breaks the whole game. Open-world PvP is in, and it's not going anywhere. This would make it so people can't attack each other, and that would break the game.
3. And the final thing is to make it so that there is a threshold, a threshold for the amount of player damage u can take, in a time frame, that increases appropriately with level. When that threshold is reached, that player should not be attackable for a while and this immunity should only be removed when the player fights back i.e when they target another player with a skill or effect, be it an ally or enemy. This has to exist as otherwise bards and clerics would abuse this system. The immunity should also be paused when they enter a pvp instance and should resume when they finish.
A: Why? I don't understand what problem this solves. Why should there be a threshold, and how/why are clerics and bards abusing ... what exactly, what are they abusing? What do you mean by enter and finish a PvP instance too? We will not have a dungeon-finder/battle-ground system like WoW, where you click a button and queue up and are teleported away to instanced content.
It seems to me that you're hoping for a more PvE orientated game, but trying to change this game into a different game isn't the right way to go about things (nor is it a productive use of your time). Instead, I suggest you watch some of the recent interviews Steven had with Asmongold and LazyPeon, or some of the informational videos ParadoxGaming make, as well as check out the wiki. It will help you understand more clearly the direction of the game design and the reasons for it.
NO. They are NOT the same thing. A single player will not have a 1000 griefers trying to grief them, unless ur a streamer. How do u expect a single person to fight back against several hundred griefers? Its impossible.
Did u even read my point? These players DONT CARE about their gear. If every player is able to kill the streamer once before being corrupted, it will take several hundred deaths of the streamer before all the griefers have been corrupted. Use ur brain.
I've seen too many streamers get given Gold, Items, Power Levelling and carried in groups to give them even more advantages - PvP will have Hard Counters, I do not think a Streamer should be a Hard Counter to all and sundry.
Edit: People grief streamers for a reaction, don't give any reaction except to kill a griefer and the situation resolves itself. We all get ganked in other games, it might not happen in Ashes but I bet someone will be ganked.
The same way as every other game. There are some games with streamer-protections though, that replace names with randomly generated ones... If something like this is adopted, and you're constantly on the move it shouldn't be possible to be stream sniped, because there's no fast travel.
Also, 1000 fresh level 1s will probably not be much threat to a properly established player. If they attack you, you can kill them.
But to be quite honest, this seems like an insignificant problem only a handful of people will ever experience, and it's entirely their own fault.
Wow. You really don't understand anything do u? I'm not a streamer but i don't want a streamer that i like, playing the game, but not being able to enjoy it just because several hundred players are griefing him. What do u mean by "not give any reaction"? Are u stupid? How do u expect players to not react when they are constantly dying and not being able to enjoy the game? Ghosting is a relevant thing for almost every popular streamer, in almost every game they play. So its MUCH MUCH more relevant in a game with an open world pvp system.
Streamers are crucial to any game in order to bring popularity for that game. Just look at just how much AoC gained from Steven interviewing Asmongold. His viewership was insane during the interview, near 70k. If a streamer like that comes to play ur game and has his experience ruined by constant pKs, it will reflect ur game in a negative light.
STREAMERS STREAM THEIR GAME. From CHARACTER SELECT to END GAME. So how do u become a properly established player if u don't GET THERE in the first place?
I'm surprised at how little you guys understand about streamers and their viewers.
Also the idea about constantly being on the move is ridiculous. Why force someone to keep moving instead of questing in his region of interest? Even if they do keep moving, eventually they are going to be able to catch the streamer anyways. So I don't understand what ur saying.
I played MMOs before Twitch existed and before Youtube existed. There were many people who did too. Most streamers stream on PvE Servers because they don't want the hassle. Those who accept the terms and conditions of the PvP Style Servers will be the most popular. Not because they are ganked but because they are taking the ultimate risks.
The whole thrill of streaming in a PvP Environment is because of the PvP Element. You can't expect a whole Game Concept to be changed for a streamer, its not streamer world, its Ashes of Creation.
Going to go ahead and report this thread for toxicity...
Also I have a strong suspicion you're trolling and we're all taking the bait.
I understand very well about streamers and streaming. I was one. My close friend is a quite successful one, as well.
It's not that we don't understand, it's that we don't care and have no reason to care. Not even the streamer would be arguing for this, and if they are ... then they're playing the wrong game.
Bro i highly recommend u refrain from typing. Your view of the game is absolutely selfish. I'm not talking about the kind of streamers that have small viewerships. Im talking about 10k+ viewership streamers that might play the game.
So NO, its not ok for streamers to not be able to enjoy pvp just because they are streamers. You HAVE to put restrictions in place to accomodate them as they're a crucial part of every game.
A big part of the game is in the relationships you form with people around you. If a streamer has hunderds of players around him that want to kill him, that is a result of the relationships that streamer has formed via their stream, and as such is a part of the game for them.
I mean, all the streamer needs to do is not say what server they are on. If they aren't that smart, then they deserve to be killed over and over again.
Yea sure go ahead. I'm surprised at just how little all of u know about the importance of streamers and their experience for any game to succeed.
No, they don't have to put restrictions in place to accommodate them.
No, they won't put restrictions in place to accommodate them.
No, they're not a crucial part of every game or any game.
Just look at the search history for Ashes of Creation. Look at how hard it spiked after the interview with Asmongold and Summit. So YES, they are VERY IMPORTANT.
Yea, i don't see why those would be needed.
However, the idea of having a 'streamer protect' function that hides your map position on your screen or displays a fake name would be a cool thing to have :-)
It's not that important for a full subscription game.
WoW is the only subscription game that really has streamers, but streamers play WoW so they can get popular, not the other way around.
Streamers are really important for child focused free-to-play games, not adult focused subscription games.
Furthermore, NDA hasn't lifted yet, and, when NDA does lift I expect more people will experience the game's potential, rather than snippets here, interviews there, actual hard proof from recorded footage.
It spiked because the game design is something traditionalist MMO fans want and have been waiting for, for 15+ years in some cases. What you're suggesting would dramatically oppose the design of the game.
Also, you seem to have it very backwards. Streamers play a game to get viewers. A game does not beg for a streamer to play it so that the game succeeds, unless it is desperate for money and crowd-sourcing. Ashes of Creation is already fully funded, and is subscription based. By your logic the best thing to do would be nothing, so that 10,000 people DO log on to stream snipe a streamer, because that's $150,000 USD of profit for the company, lol.
I don't think even the streamers you're talking about would support these kind of demands. They seemed really interested to play a PvP game.
NO. IT SPIKED BECAUSE THAT INFORMATION WAS STATED TO A STREAMER THAT HAD 70K VIEWERS AT THAT TIME. Viewers that would never even know about the game until release.
And yes, streamers WILL want something to stop them from being constantly ghosted and killed. I don't want anyone to follow my demands, i just want something, anything, to stop constant pks. Because u have to understand, trolls dont care about the consequences of constant pks. And for streamers with a lot of viewers, these players will go to extended lengths to make sure they ruin the streamer's experience with the game.
And if the streamers experience is ruined, it portrays a bad image to their community as well. Any game that is successful right now is successful on twitch as well. A game's success and streaming community go hand in hand these days. You have to understand that. I'm not a streamer, just someone who cares about the game. I don't want this game to lose potential players just because they refuse to implement an additional system to accommodate streamers.
The corruption system will be tested out and balanced to the vision of the game the developers have.
In fact that should happen in the next quarter or 2.
522,555 views•Jul 18, 2020
SO your 70k are small fries and do not warrant any changes. There is more than enough anticipation to see what Ashes of Creation will be.
I'm happy for name swaps to take place but any other advantages should not happen.
This is all I want, I'm just asking them to make sure that they accommodate streamers when they make adjustments to the corruption system. That is all.
Yea, but why streamers exactly? Like, they can do a number of other things that don't involve changes to the corruption system.
The corruption system should be made fair for everyone.
They can hide certain information for streamers to avoid stream sniping and griefing - like being able to hide the minimap, displaying a fake name etc.
The fact that ur comparing views and viewers shows how little you know about the streaming community. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING. There is a HUGE difference between 70k viewers and 500k views, in that the 70k are viewers and not views. That is why twitch streamers are paid WAAAAY more than youtubers, because they have active viewers that view their content for a long period of time. Whilst it may look like 500k views is greater than 70k viewers, THAT IS NOT THE CASE. A 70k viewership streamer is comparable to a channel that rakes in millions of views a day. Not thousands.
So it is not an accurate comparison.
Did Lazy Peon play a huge role? ABSOLUTELY. He has been following this game for several years now.
But has Asmongold played a huge role as well by reacting to Lazy Peon's content? Absolutely.
You need both types of creators for a game to be truly successful.