I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
Touché, it would be nice for those people who wait until the boss is at 10% Health, then kill the current combatants and do a swift kill from 10% to 0%. The options are unlimited at this point.
Edit: Hopefully the boss would reset. A boss might have to fight numerous raids before the night is out.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to.
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Not until you are dead and then you have already been wiped...and they only get corruption if your raid group doesn't fight back. Raid on raid actively killing each other won't give corruption
Ok so dont fight back, they go corrupt, you go back wipe them and take their gear and the boss loot even if they have killed it depending on how long it takes to get back.
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
I understand your concern, but I promise you it won't be anything less than very awesome. I played an open PvP Everquest server back in the day, and raid groups were VERY rarely interrupted by PvP, and when it was .. the people who started off as salty, were not at all by the end of it because everyone was just having so much fun.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
That's what PvX and open-world PvP mean. The PvE is still there. If you were expecting to be able to escape PvP and still get the best stuff in the game, I'm sorry, but I promise you it won't be anything like you fear... It will be very fun and awesome. Just wait and see, you'll love it, I bet you anything you'll love it more than any game you've played before.
Don't forget about corruption, either!
Here's some quotes just so you don't think I'm pulling this stuff out of my arse.
"Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal. Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else."
"We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get."
"The PvP flagging system presents an opportunity for open conflict."
"There will be an 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters."
I agree with hazardnumberseven. Because the game is PvX it is not reasonable to allow players to obtain the best items for both PvE and PvP in an instanced fashion. Instances will create a situation where all Guilds would suddenly become extremely powerful and can never be stopped because of the instanced PvE. I'm all for PvX but I'm also for fair opportunities.
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
I understand your concern, but I promise you it won't be anything less than very awesome. I played an open PvP Everquest server back in the day, and raid groups were VERY rarely interrupted by PvP, and when it was .. the people who started off as salty, were not at all by the end of it because everyone was just having so much fun.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
That's what PvX and open-world PvP mean. The PvE is still there. If you were expecting to be able to escape PvP and still get the best stuff in the game, I'm sorry, but I promise you it won't be anything like you fear... It will be very fun and awesome. Just wait and see, you'll love it, I bet you anything you'll love it more than any game you've played before.
Don't forget about corruption, either!
Here's some quotes just so you don't think I'm pulling this stuff out of my arse.
"Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal. Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else."
"We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get."
"The PvP flagging system presents an opportunity for open conflict."
"There will be an 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters."
Just think back to WOW when you had LBRS, UBRS, MC, and BWL intrances like 100 yards away from each other...sometimes it would take 2 hrs just to get into your dungeon/raid... if the dungeon raid didn't have an instance we might be still waiting for a world 1st clear on the pvp servers lol
Raids will be Points of Interest and larger Nodes will have them. I doubt they will be 100 yards away from each other. If a Raid Group is about to kill you, just declare a Guild War if you have your Guild Leader with you, no corruption gain because no flagging situation, you can then kill them freely, yet, you'd also have a Guild War to fight beyond the Raid. You could also form Alliances and trade links too. There are many options which WoW didn't have.
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
I understand your concern, but I promise you it won't be anything less than very awesome. I played an open PvP Everquest server back in the day, and raid groups were VERY rarely interrupted by PvP, and when it was .. the people who started off as salty, were not at all by the end of it because everyone was just having so much fun.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
That's what PvX and open-world PvP mean. The PvE is still there. If you were expecting to be able to escape PvP and still get the best stuff in the game, I'm sorry, but I promise you it won't be anything like you fear... It will be very fun and awesome. Just wait and see, you'll love it, I bet you anything you'll love it more than any game you've played before.
Don't forget about corruption, either!
Here's some quotes just so you don't think I'm pulling this stuff out of my arse.
"Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal. Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else."
"We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get."
"The PvP flagging system presents an opportunity for open conflict."
"There will be an 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters."
Just think back to WOW when you had LBRS, UBRS, MC, and BWL intrances like 100 yards away from each other...sometimes it would take 2 hrs just to get into your dungeon/raid... if the dungeon raid didn't have an instance we might be still waiting for a world 1st clear on the pvp servers lol
Yeah, but WoW sucks... and also there was no consequence to death so people are willing to risk their own character's life to kill others much more freely. There was also no corruption system.
I totally get why it might bother you if you're more interested in PvE, but it just has to be that way to keep things functional. I know you don't want to exploit the system, but other guilds would. They'd farm instanced content 24/7 with no risk, in a game that is built entirely on risk vs reward. Imagine how ridiculously powerful a guild like goonsquad could get if they had 1000s of members constantly grinding PvE content. They could just buy the loyalty of every single player and there'd be no way to counter it with PvP! Infinite riskless wealth!
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
I understand your concern, but I promise you it won't be anything less than very awesome. I played an open PvP Everquest server back in the day, and raid groups were VERY rarely interrupted by PvP, and when it was .. the people who started off as salty, were not at all by the end of it because everyone was just having so much fun.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
That's what PvX and open-world PvP mean. The PvE is still there. If you were expecting to be able to escape PvP and still get the best stuff in the game, I'm sorry, but I promise you it won't be anything like you fear... It will be very fun and awesome. Just wait and see, you'll love it, I bet you anything you'll love it more than any game you've played before.
Don't forget about corruption, either!
Here's some quotes just so you don't think I'm pulling this stuff out of my arse.
"Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal. Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else."
"We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get."
"The PvP flagging system presents an opportunity for open conflict."
"There will be an 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters."
Just think back to WOW when you had LBRS, UBRS, MC, and BWL intrances like 100 yards away from each other...sometimes it would take 2 hrs just to get into your dungeon/raid... if the dungeon raid didn't have an instance we might be still waiting for a world 1st clear on the pvp servers lol
Yeah, but WoW sucks... and also there was no consequence to death so people are willing to risk their own character's life to kill others much more freely. There was also no corruption system.
I totally get why it might bother you if you're more interested in PvE, but it just has to be that way to keep things functional. I know you don't want to exploit the system, but other guilds would. They'd farm instanced content 24/7 with no risk, in a game that is built entirely on risk vs reward. Imagine how ridiculously powerful a guild like goonsquad could get if they had 1000s of members constantly grinding PvE content. They could just buy the loyalty of every single player and there'd be no way to counter it with PvP! Infinite riskless wealth!
If only the hardest raids were instanced and you could only clear the hardest ones 1 time a week it would be impossible to over farm them. Make it where only the open world ones can be farmed all the time and there you have to deal with pvp annoyance . On the very few that are instanced give them a long repeat timer and leave most uninstanced with no timer.
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
I understand your concern, but I promise you it won't be anything less than very awesome. I played an open PvP Everquest server back in the day, and raid groups were VERY rarely interrupted by PvP, and when it was .. the people who started off as salty, were not at all by the end of it because everyone was just having so much fun.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
That's what PvX and open-world PvP mean. The PvE is still there. If you were expecting to be able to escape PvP and still get the best stuff in the game, I'm sorry, but I promise you it won't be anything like you fear... It will be very fun and awesome. Just wait and see, you'll love it, I bet you anything you'll love it more than any game you've played before.
Don't forget about corruption, either!
Here's some quotes just so you don't think I'm pulling this stuff out of my arse.
"Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal. Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else."
"We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get."
"The PvP flagging system presents an opportunity for open conflict."
"There will be an 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters."
Just think back to WOW when you had LBRS, UBRS, MC, and BWL intrances like 100 yards away from each other...sometimes it would take 2 hrs just to get into your dungeon/raid... if the dungeon raid didn't have an instance we might be still waiting for a world 1st clear on the pvp servers lol
Yeah, but WoW sucks... and also there was no consequence to death so people are willing to risk their own character's life to kill others much more freely. There was also no corruption system.
I totally get why it might bother you if you're more interested in PvE, but it just has to be that way to keep things functional. I know you don't want to exploit the system, but other guilds would. They'd farm instanced content 24/7 with no risk, in a game that is built entirely on risk vs reward. Imagine how ridiculously powerful a guild like goonsquad could get if they had 1000s of members constantly grinding PvE content. They could just buy the loyalty of every single player and there'd be no way to counter it with PvP! Infinite riskless wealth!
If only the hardest raids were instanced and you could only clear the hardest ones 1 time a week it would be impossible to over farm them. Make it where only the open world ones can be farmed all the time and there you have to deal with pvp annoyance . On the very few that are instanced give them a long repeat timer and leave most uninstanced with no timer.
I don't know if any raids at all will be instanced, it only mentioned some dungeons and arenas.
Also, I seriously doubt timegated content raids like that found in WoW will ever be even considered for AoC. At least I hope not. Nearly all of us here are trying to get as far away as possible from WoW-style MMOs.
I don't think you understand the issue. If a Raid is 40 Man and someone has 1000s of players, it won't matter if a Raid Group can only do it once a week, because they can field hundreds of 40 Man teams. Which means they would be able to farm instanced Raids with or without a time lock. In fact, a time lock would make it impossible to compete with them even further by people who can't field more than five instanced raids a week. There is no reason to enable people to farm instances without the threat of invasion.
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
I understand your concern, but I promise you it won't be anything less than very awesome. I played an open PvP Everquest server back in the day, and raid groups were VERY rarely interrupted by PvP, and when it was .. the people who started off as salty, were not at all by the end of it because everyone was just having so much fun.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
That's what PvX and open-world PvP mean. The PvE is still there. If you were expecting to be able to escape PvP and still get the best stuff in the game, I'm sorry, but I promise you it won't be anything like you fear... It will be very fun and awesome. Just wait and see, you'll love it, I bet you anything you'll love it more than any game you've played before.
Don't forget about corruption, either!
Here's some quotes just so you don't think I'm pulling this stuff out of my arse.
"Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal. Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else."
"We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get."
"The PvP flagging system presents an opportunity for open conflict."
"There will be an 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters."
Just think back to WOW when you had LBRS, UBRS, MC, and BWL intrances like 100 yards away from each other...sometimes it would take 2 hrs just to get into your dungeon/raid... if the dungeon raid didn't have an instance we might be still waiting for a world 1st clear on the pvp servers lol
Yeah, but WoW sucks... and also there was no consequence to death so people are willing to risk their own character's life to kill others much more freely. There was also no corruption system.
I totally get why it might bother you if you're more interested in PvE, but it just has to be that way to keep things functional. I know you don't want to exploit the system, but other guilds would. They'd farm instanced content 24/7 with no risk, in a game that is built entirely on risk vs reward. Imagine how ridiculously powerful a guild like goonsquad could get if they had 1000s of members constantly grinding PvE content. They could just buy the loyalty of every single player and there'd be no way to counter it with PvP! Infinite riskless wealth!
If only the hardest raids were instanced and you could only clear the hardest ones 1 time a week it would be impossible to over farm them. Make it where only the open world ones can be farmed all the time and there you have to deal with pvp annoyance . On the very few that are instanced give them a long repeat timer and leave most uninstanced with no timer.
I don't know if any raids at all will be instanced, it only mentioned some dungeons and arenas.
Also, I seriously doubt timegated content raids like that found in WoW will ever be even considered for AoC. At least I hope not. Nearly all of us here are trying to get as far away as possible from WoW-style MMOs.
So you say you don't want people to farm raids 24/7 but you don't want them time locked...can't really have it both ways. If they are not locked the biggest guild will be able to hold the area most the time and farm the crap out of it while noone else can get near
I've explained before, if a PvE Area is locked down by a Guild, I'd form an Alliance and would declare Guild War. No flagging system and World PvP (Yay). It is in no-ones interested to allow a guild to farm PvE Instances without any hindrance at all. If you think a guild can do that then why don't you just join a guild you think will be able to farm, instead of complaining about the system. The beauty is, that unless its a Mega Guild, having a PvE Area on lockdown will be nigh on impossible. You could even Guild War them if they are inside the same Node as you.
PvX does not mean there is PvE content and also PvP content and you get to pick whether you will play a PvE or a PvP game.
PvX does mean everything is both PvP and PvE content. Everything is connected all at the same time.
Please just accept this fact and stop demanding the game be changed to a PvE title.
Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a dick .. but with all the things you dislike about this title, why did you back it and why aren't you playing WoW? WoW has all those things you want. In fact, most MMOs have all those things you want. You don't need to wait for Ashes of Creation, the type of games you want to play already exist in the world. We do have to wait for Ashes of Creation because the type of game we want to play doesn't exist in the world.
I mean if you arent flagged and a group comes in to kill you they still have to deal with corruption right??
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
I understand your concern, but I promise you it won't be anything less than very awesome. I played an open PvP Everquest server back in the day, and raid groups were VERY rarely interrupted by PvP, and when it was .. the people who started off as salty, were not at all by the end of it because everyone was just having so much fun.
I am worried about player agency and PvP being compromised by all the anti-PvPers who consider non-consensual PvP griefing.
Included in that, is instanced content. Worried it will be too rewarding without risk, since they are removed from the open world PvP component of the game and essentially (from a PvPers perspective) rendered invulnerable/godmode while still progressing. The way it is described now seems fine, but my worries are more long-term.
Hopefully some dungens and raids will be and will not be instanced. Some each way would be best.
And yes pvp for a reason is not generally griefing. But attacking someone because you just want to find someone anyone to piss off is.
The majority of grouped content will be open world.
Which means every single dungeon run or raid will be a pvp griefing mess and pve progression will almost not exist in the pvx game. Open pvp in a dungeon or raid does not work well if you expect any kind of pve progression to be possible.
I don't want to raid at 3am just because there 1000 people who can't complete it and want to make sure noone else can since they aren't good enough to be able to and are jealous.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
That's what PvX and open-world PvP mean. The PvE is still there. If you were expecting to be able to escape PvP and still get the best stuff in the game, I'm sorry, but I promise you it won't be anything like you fear... It will be very fun and awesome. Just wait and see, you'll love it, I bet you anything you'll love it more than any game you've played before.
Don't forget about corruption, either!
Here's some quotes just so you don't think I'm pulling this stuff out of my arse.
"Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal. Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else."
"We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get."
"The PvP flagging system presents an opportunity for open conflict."
"There will be an 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters."
Just think back to WOW when you had LBRS, UBRS, MC, and BWL intrances like 100 yards away from each other...sometimes it would take 2 hrs just to get into your dungeon/raid... if the dungeon raid didn't have an instance we might be still waiting for a world 1st clear on the pvp servers lol
Yeah, but WoW sucks... and also there was no consequence to death so people are willing to risk their own character's life to kill others much more freely. There was also no corruption system.
I totally get why it might bother you if you're more interested in PvE, but it just has to be that way to keep things functional. I know you don't want to exploit the system, but other guilds would. They'd farm instanced content 24/7 with no risk, in a game that is built entirely on risk vs reward. Imagine how ridiculously powerful a guild like goonsquad could get if they had 1000s of members constantly grinding PvE content. They could just buy the loyalty of every single player and there'd be no way to counter it with PvP! Infinite riskless wealth!
If only the hardest raids were instanced and you could only clear the hardest ones 1 time a week it would be impossible to over farm them. Make it where only the open world ones can be farmed all the time and there you have to deal with pvp annoyance . On the very few that are instanced give them a long repeat timer and leave most uninstanced with no timer.
I don't know if any raids at all will be instanced, it only mentioned some dungeons and arenas.
Also, I seriously doubt timegated content raids like that found in WoW will ever be even considered for AoC. At least I hope not. Nearly all of us here are trying to get as far away as possible from WoW-style MMOs.
So you say you don't want people to farm raids 24/7 but you don't want them time locked...can't really have it both ways. If they are not locked the biggest guild will be able to hold the area most the time and farm the crap out of it while noone else can get near
No they can't, because they would have to murder people to do that and they would gain corruption.
I can't believe what I'm reading here.
To the developers: Please ignore this nonsense. Do not give into the "game is too hard, make it easy please" crowd. Don't become another participation trophy MMO like everything else is today.
Well one real worry is I have never seen a mmo with 10 well balanced classes let alone 64. If they get 64 classes very well balanced they are the best devs in history
I have some serious doubts that they can ever make all the classes to be perfectly in balance with one another. But I do believe that it is possible to make the separate classes unique and fun because they aren't balanced. From what I've seen so far about this game, you shouldn't be able to be good at everything. People can play on each other's strengths and weaknesses and groups as a whole can be balanced against each other instead of the individual (as much). Just waiting to see like everyone else here tbh. But my hope is that there will be alot of testing with alot of people and this community can work on this game as much as the developers are. I'll gladly do my part
Corruption. It is a new system which takes into account various factors crossing the boundaries between: principality/aura/hitpoint statistics and numbers/regeneration algorithms/factions/reputation/and finally, death and dying. Quite complicated if you ask me. Unless they keep it simple. Then it would be just that.
Some of the biggest things I would be afraid of is power creep, class balance, and content gaps.
Power creep is not going to be an immediate issue, but if the team isn't proactively combating it, they're proactively setting their game up for failure, a few ways to curb power creep is to offer gear side grades, rather then upgrades, where new gear unlocks new and exciting game playstyles, while also not invalidating current gear sets.
I think the team is well aware of the challenges they will face balancing 64 classes.
Ashes of Creation from my point of view has a major advantage to combating content gaps since the game seems to emphasize player interaction / server lore rather then world lore, however, lack of new content to keep people interested could be devastating, I have played too many games where I get to the end game and all you do from that point is log on to do dailies, then you log right off until raid night.
I'm most worried about how node destruction will actually work out. Since it is such a critical part of the game and has the potential for people to losing a signification time investment, It could end up feeling very bad to actually interact with.
I also feel strongly that the 64 classes is going to be problematic. I not yet convinced that there will be a strong identity for all 64 rather than just 8 core classes with 8 minor sub classes and along with this given other games track records on balance it seems likely that there will be problems. Even if these end up being minor problems class issues are very important to people and it seems like one of the most likely areas for problems.
While combat could certainly be a problem, Steven seems to be aware of how important it is. The game can be good with problems in other areas but if the combat sucks then the game just won't be fun.
Hopefully these and other problems can be avoided and I am very excited and hopeful for the game.
Raids are my biggest concern. I could see a very complex raid going sideways because 3/4th of the way through a PvP guild jumps in and complicates the process to where absolutely no one wins.
Guys, it’s called critical failure points. It’s a very normal analysis.
Fluid combat
Yea, fluid combat is extremly hard to get right. The problem is making it feel engaging, fun and challenging while still not feeling clunky or restrictive.
This. I left ESO because of the lack of fluid combat. WoW has mastered this and AoC will need to match it.
0
XenantayaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2020
Here are three, maybe in some kind of order:
1. One of the most interesting points of AOC is the dynamic content, but I'm concerned this presents the biggest challenge in execution with the potential for a lot of bugs or unexpected interactions. I'm concerned that a node levels and the dungeon that was supposed to level with it become buggy, or that destroying a metropolis node in a siege crashes the server, or that when the first raid spawns its causes all caravans to fly into outer space, etc.
2. In the eternal casual PvE vs PvP player debate, I'm less concerned about corruption (which currently seems sufficiently harsh that I doubt PvPers will do a lot of open world ganking) than I am with caravans. Gathering, processing, crafting are all typical things for PvE-oriented solo players, and in AOC its sounds like caravans will be essential for those activities. My guess is that players who enjoy open world PvP will constantly hunt and destroy caravans as a way to get PvP and gold without being punished by corruption. I expect a lot of complaints by PvE players whose caravans are destroyed, hours of gathering goods lost, and threats to quit the game.
3. Someone previously touched on this, but I'm concerned what players decided to do if/when their high level node is destroyed. This is especially important if (as many predict) causal players congregate around nodes near the divine gateways, causing them to become the first metropolises, but making them potentially prey for nodes with more hardcore players who want to destroy those metros to advance their own nodes. When those metros are burned to the ground, do the casual players try to rebuild or move to a nearby node, or do they just quit the game en masse?
Comments
Technically, a Raid could just nuke the Main Tank, only the killing death blow would go corrupted (If the flagging system is applied). If they are open dungeons, there's nothing stopping two allied raids arriving, one to PvP clear and the other to PvE.
Nah, because corruption.
Also, well .. Too bad. That's the game.
Or they could just stun/cc all the healers until the boss kills everything
It should not be... any game where you can beat a dungeon with your eyes closed but can't because there are tons of jealous people griefing you has no business calling its self a pvx game where pve is important. That would be a pure pvp game with a tad of pve as a cause of pvp. They claim they are making a pvx game where both are important. Not just a pvp game with some extras as causes of more pvp.
Touché, it would be nice for those people who wait until the boss is at 10% Health, then kill the current combatants and do a swift kill from 10% to 0%. The options are unlimited at this point.
Edit: Hopefully the boss would reset. A boss might have to fight numerous raids before the night is out.
Ok so dont fight back, they go corrupt, you go back wipe them and take their gear and the boss loot even if they have killed it depending on how long it takes to get back.
I understand your concern, but I promise you it won't be anything less than very awesome. I played an open PvP Everquest server back in the day, and raid groups were VERY rarely interrupted by PvP, and when it was .. the people who started off as salty, were not at all by the end of it because everyone was just having so much fun.
That's what PvX and open-world PvP mean. The PvE is still there. If you were expecting to be able to escape PvP and still get the best stuff in the game, I'm sorry, but I promise you it won't be anything like you fear... It will be very fun and awesome. Just wait and see, you'll love it, I bet you anything you'll love it more than any game you've played before.
Don't forget about corruption, either!
Here's some quotes just so you don't think I'm pulling this stuff out of my arse.
"Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal. Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else."
"We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get."
"The PvP flagging system presents an opportunity for open conflict."
"There will be an 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters."
Just think back to WOW when you had LBRS, UBRS, MC, and BWL intrances like 100 yards away from each other...sometimes it would take 2 hrs just to get into your dungeon/raid... if the dungeon raid didn't have an instance we might be still waiting for a world 1st clear on the pvp servers lol
Yeah, but WoW sucks... and also there was no consequence to death so people are willing to risk their own character's life to kill others much more freely. There was also no corruption system.
I totally get why it might bother you if you're more interested in PvE, but it just has to be that way to keep things functional. I know you don't want to exploit the system, but other guilds would. They'd farm instanced content 24/7 with no risk, in a game that is built entirely on risk vs reward. Imagine how ridiculously powerful a guild like goonsquad could get if they had 1000s of members constantly grinding PvE content. They could just buy the loyalty of every single player and there'd be no way to counter it with PvP! Infinite riskless wealth!
If only the hardest raids were instanced and you could only clear the hardest ones 1 time a week it would be impossible to over farm them. Make it where only the open world ones can be farmed all the time and there you have to deal with pvp annoyance . On the very few that are instanced give them a long repeat timer and leave most uninstanced with no timer.
I don't know if any raids at all will be instanced, it only mentioned some dungeons and arenas.
Also, I seriously doubt timegated content raids like that found in WoW will ever be even considered for AoC. At least I hope not. Nearly all of us here are trying to get as far away as possible from WoW-style MMOs.
So you say you don't want people to farm raids 24/7 but you don't want them time locked...can't really have it both ways. If they are not locked the biggest guild will be able to hold the area most the time and farm the crap out of it while noone else can get near
PvX does not mean there is PvE content and also PvP content and you get to pick whether you will play a PvE or a PvP game.
PvX does mean everything is both PvP and PvE content. Everything is connected all at the same time.
Please just accept this fact and stop demanding the game be changed to a PvE title.
Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a dick .. but with all the things you dislike about this title, why did you back it and why aren't you playing WoW? WoW has all those things you want. In fact, most MMOs have all those things you want. You don't need to wait for Ashes of Creation, the type of games you want to play already exist in the world. We do have to wait for Ashes of Creation because the type of game we want to play doesn't exist in the world.
No they can't, because they would have to murder people to do that and they would gain corruption.
To the developers: Please ignore this nonsense. Do not give into the "game is too hard, make it easy please" crowd. Don't become another participation trophy MMO like everything else is today.
I have some serious doubts that they can ever make all the classes to be perfectly in balance with one another. But I do believe that it is possible to make the separate classes unique and fun because they aren't balanced. From what I've seen so far about this game, you shouldn't be able to be good at everything. People can play on each other's strengths and weaknesses and groups as a whole can be balanced against each other instead of the individual (as much). Just waiting to see like everyone else here tbh. But my hope is that there will be alot of testing with alot of people and this community can work on this game as much as the developers are. I'll gladly do my part
Power creep is not going to be an immediate issue, but if the team isn't proactively combating it, they're proactively setting their game up for failure, a few ways to curb power creep is to offer gear side grades, rather then upgrades, where new gear unlocks new and exciting game playstyles, while also not invalidating current gear sets.
I think the team is well aware of the challenges they will face balancing 64 classes.
Ashes of Creation from my point of view has a major advantage to combating content gaps since the game seems to emphasize player interaction / server lore rather then world lore, however, lack of new content to keep people interested could be devastating, I have played too many games where I get to the end game and all you do from that point is log on to do dailies, then you log right off until raid night.
I also feel strongly that the 64 classes is going to be problematic. I not yet convinced that there will be a strong identity for all 64 rather than just 8 core classes with 8 minor sub classes and along with this given other games track records on balance it seems likely that there will be problems. Even if these end up being minor problems class issues are very important to people and it seems like one of the most likely areas for problems.
While combat could certainly be a problem, Steven seems to be aware of how important it is. The game can be good with problems in other areas but if the combat sucks then the game just won't be fun.
Hopefully these and other problems can be avoided and I am very excited and hopeful for the game.
This. I left ESO because of the lack of fluid combat. WoW has mastered this and AoC will need to match it.
1. One of the most interesting points of AOC is the dynamic content, but I'm concerned this presents the biggest challenge in execution with the potential for a lot of bugs or unexpected interactions. I'm concerned that a node levels and the dungeon that was supposed to level with it become buggy, or that destroying a metropolis node in a siege crashes the server, or that when the first raid spawns its causes all caravans to fly into outer space, etc.
2. In the eternal casual PvE vs PvP player debate, I'm less concerned about corruption (which currently seems sufficiently harsh that I doubt PvPers will do a lot of open world ganking) than I am with caravans. Gathering, processing, crafting are all typical things for PvE-oriented solo players, and in AOC its sounds like caravans will be essential for those activities. My guess is that players who enjoy open world PvP will constantly hunt and destroy caravans as a way to get PvP and gold without being punished by corruption. I expect a lot of complaints by PvE players whose caravans are destroyed, hours of gathering goods lost, and threats to quit the game.
3. Someone previously touched on this, but I'm concerned what players decided to do if/when their high level node is destroyed. This is especially important if (as many predict) causal players congregate around nodes near the divine gateways, causing them to become the first metropolises, but making them potentially prey for nodes with more hardcore players who want to destroy those metros to advance their own nodes. When those metros are burned to the ground, do the casual players try to rebuild or move to a nearby node, or do they just quit the game en masse?