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What is the one lesson you wish the Devs of AoC would learn from the MMO you currently play?

Cold 0ne FTBCold 0ne FTB Member, Alpha One, Adventurer, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
Got another question for y'all: if there was one system/thing that the Devs of AoC would implement in the upcoming game or one lesson you wished that the Devs of Ashes would learn from the MMO you currently play or last played, what would it be?
ZxbhjES.gif

That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
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Comments

  • HansrutgerHansrutger Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    RNG is not a system, it's not a feature, neither does it realistically exist. Do not put RNG layers on top of each other, ever. It was never fun and it will never be fun. People who played retail WoW will understand what I mean.
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Do not cater to the masses.

    Every game goes down the same path. It starts with a vision and a design. People come and want to change it, more people will come if you make it more accessible to more people. More people come, you are rewarded with more money. That means what I did is GOOD and SUCCESSFUL right? (no) .. You continue to broaden your audience, attracting even more people and more money. No one can claim you're failing because you keep getting richer and more popular, but there you go ... another WoW clone, another false-MMO dead.
  • Cold 0ne FTBCold 0ne FTB Member, Alpha One, Adventurer, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    hazardnumberseven wrote: »
    Do not cater to the masses.

    Every game goes down the same path. It starts with a vision and a design. People come and want to change it, more people will come if you make it more accessible to more people. More people come, you are rewarded with more money. That means what I did is GOOD and SUCCESSFUL right? (no) .. You continue to broaden your audience, attracting even more people and more money. No one can claim you're failing because you keep getting richer and more popular, but there you go ... another WoW clone, another false-MMO dead.

    That's a huge one.
    ZxbhjES.gif

    That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
  • Cold 0ne FTBCold 0ne FTB Member, Alpha One, Adventurer, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hansrutger wrote: »
    RNG is not a system, it's not a feature, neither does it realistically exist. Do not put RNG layers on top of each other, ever. It was never fun and it will never be fun. People who played retail WoW will understand what I mean.

    That's a good point too.
    ZxbhjES.gif

    That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
  • Jean PageeteJean Pageete Member
    If game wants long term success, most certainly movement and combat is the path to success
  • phdmonsterphdmonster Member
    Those imply that they've already made the mistakes you mention and they haven't learned from them.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    Steven has played my fav mmo, L2.
    I see a lot of similarities and Im extremelly happy about the way he thinks of mmos (open world, risk/reward, no end game mentality but a player driven story).

    Only the classes worry me. My advise is 15 solid classes
    Warrior
    Rogue
    Ranger
    Holy tank
    Dark tank
    Necro
    Basic mage
    Battlemage
    Dot Mage
    Summoner (elements and mythical animals)
    Bard
    Bladedancer
    Healer
    Beastmaster
    Barbarian

    each class should have abilities that are based on 3 weapons, as well as theme abilities and finally function abilities (tank, heal, dps, buffer).

    Then again, Ill play fighter/fighter or the meta fighter combo and Ill be ok.
  • phdmonsterphdmonster Member
    George Black wrote: »
    Steven has played my fav mmo, L2.
    I see a lot of similarities and Im extremelly happy about the way he thinks of mmos (open world, risk/reward, no end game mentality but a player driven story).

    Only the classes worry me. My advise is 15 solid classes
    Warrior
    Rogue
    Ranger
    Holy tank
    Dark tank
    Necro
    Basic mage
    Battlemage
    Dot Mage
    Summoner (elements and mythical animals)
    Bard
    Bladedancer
    Healer
    Beastmaster
    Barbarian

    each class should have abilities that are based on 3 weapons, as well as theme abilities and finally function abilities (tank, heal, dps, buffer).

    Then again, Ill play fighter/fighter or the meta fighter combo and Ill be ok.

    So, you basically want them to butcher the entire idea of classes not being equipment bound and shoot themselves in the balls.
    You currently have 8 classes with 8 flavors each and who knows how many styles within these flavors. You want to butcher that too.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    phdmonster wrote: »
    George Black wrote: »
    Steven has played my fav mmo, L2.
    I see a lot of similarities and Im extremelly happy about the way he thinks of mmos (open world, risk/reward, no end game mentality but a player driven story).

    Only the classes worry me. My advise is 15 solid classes
    Warrior
    Rogue
    Ranger
    Holy tank
    Dark tank
    Necro
    Basic mage
    Battlemage
    Dot Mage
    Summoner (elements and mythical animals)
    Bard
    Bladedancer
    Healer
    Beastmaster
    Barbarian

    each class should have abilities that are based on 3 weapons, as well as theme abilities and finally function abilities (tank, heal, dps, buffer).

    Then again, Ill play fighter/fighter or the meta fighter combo and Ill be ok.

    So, you basically want them to butcher the entire idea of classes not being equipment bound and shoot themselves in the balls.
    You currently have 8 classes with 8 flavors each and who knows how many styles within these flavors. You want to butcher that too.

    Start over
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    It doesnt matter what anyone wants. So check your tone
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Don't let people run around in the city with their underwear.
    If they can, they will, and it is disgusting. Pathetic attention seekers.

    O_o
  • phdmonsterphdmonster Member
    George Black wrote: »
    It doesnt matter what anyone wants. So check your tone

    My tone is fine. Not being able to take criticism on your ideas however... yikes.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    phdmonster wrote: »
    George Black wrote: »
    It doesnt matter what anyone wants. So check your tone

    My tone is fine. Not being able to take criticism on your ideas however... yikes.

    Fanboysm doesnt contribute anything. So yeah. You annoy me with your generic "butcher" post. I rly dont want to be critisized by people with no real possition on subjects. Empty noise
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    The topic is about what lessons should be learned from other mmos.
    The lesson is that "play as you want" ends up being the total opposite, with meta being the tyrrant

    Better have real variety than artificial. Now go away.
  • phdmonsterphdmonster Member
    George Black wrote: »
    phdmonster wrote: »
    George Black wrote: »
    It doesnt matter what anyone wants. So check your tone

    My tone is fine. Not being able to take criticism on your ideas however... yikes.

    Fanboysm doesnt contribute anything. So yeah. You annoy me with your generic "butcher" post. I rly dont want to be critisized by people with no real possition on subjects. Empty noise

    So, you wanting to completely change the class and itemization systems of the game is me fanboying for the game. Oh god.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    And finally, since you seem to post without being too good in understanding other peoples possition (even though I clearly wrote it at the end of my first post)

    I have no vested interest to butcher anything. Fighter/fighter is fighter/fighter. I worry about how meaningful the other combos will be.
  • Cold 0ne FTBCold 0ne FTB Member, Alpha One, Adventurer, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    George Black wrote: »
    The topic is about what lessons should be learned from other mmos.
    The lesson is that "play as you want" ends up being the total opposite, with meta being the tyrrant

    Better have real variety than artificial. Now go away.

    ESO has that policy and a lot of players follow it. It leads to a lot of really bad players, and builds but a significant portion of the population does do it. The only times people don't allow it is when a group is trying to play competitively.
    ZxbhjES.gif

    That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hansrutger wrote: »
    RNG is not a system, it's not a feature, neither does it realistically exist. Do not put RNG layers on top of each other, ever. It was never fun and it will never be fun. People who played retail WoW will understand what I mean.

    RNG is realistically just 'luck' that exists!!! My mom had good rng when she had me after all!
    But seriously rng is everywhere in games, mob spawns, loot tables and all of that are all rng, so sorta needs to be there.
    Also there is an enchantment system. Rng there.
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    I pray that they don't listen to
    1) casual players with little exposure
    2) forum crying
    3) streamer bias
    In terms of balance or game direction.
    I dont want to see balance changes that, at the level of a relevant player, is so unwarranted, simply to keep people quiet.
    RIP GW2.

    I realise that sounds super elitist.
    Im not going to be good at this game. At all. But i still hope they communicate with players that have a deep understanding of the game rather than the casual, here for some light fun after work, sort of player.
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • Cold 0ne FTBCold 0ne FTB Member, Alpha One, Adventurer, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lafi wrote: »
    I pray that they don't listen to
    1) casual players with little exposure
    2) forum crying
    3) streamer bias
    In terms of balance or game direction.
    I dont want to see balance changes that, at the level of a relevant player, is so unwarranted, simply to keep people quiet.
    RIP GW2.

    I have seen that happen to a few games but Steven doesnt seem like the type that would cave very easily. He has openly said that this game is his version of what the perfect MMO would be and that it might not be for everybody.
    ZxbhjES.gif

    That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
  • U5urPatorU5urPator Member, Alpha Two
    Lafi wrote: »
    I pray that they don't listen to
    1) casual players with little exposure
    2) forum crying
    3) streamer bias
    In terms of balance or game direction.
    I dont want to see balance changes that, at the level of a relevant player, is so unwarranted, simply to keep people quiet.
    RIP GW2.

    I realise that sounds super elitist.
    Im not going to be good at this game. At all. But i still hope they communicate with players that have a deep understanding of the game rather than the casual, here for some light fun after work, sort of player.

    Alliances soon. No need to be salty about imbalance anymore.
  • Valento92Valento92 Member
    I agree with @Hansrutger on RNG, be very very careful with that, I'm confident that the game director knows how it goes. Not even trying to force something down the devs' throats, it's true, abuse RNG and people will hate the game. That being said, RNG is part of RPGs so as long as you place it carefully in some game domains it shouldn't be seen as that horrible.

    I'd add the following:
    • Fair, reusable, simple and balanced cosmetic skin system. I like to use GW2 as an example because it's damn simple to unlock and apply skins, and also avoid cluttering your bag/bank from items whose sole purpose in the long term is just skins. Also, cosmetics are endgame for a huge crowd for a reason; people like to belittle how useless these things are but they're valued that much for a reason.
    • Seeing how this game is being built actually reassures me a lot, so I'd like to simply point out that progression is a big part in any MMO. We saw how GW2 failed hard with horizontal progression, but we can also see how massive vertical progression can be time-consuming and actually tiring. Use FFXIV as a good example on how to bridge vertical progression in a seamless way, use GW2 as a good example on how to offer some interesting horizontal progression.
    • Explain your game. I've tried some game's alpha as of late and it was awful. Use flashing pop-ups about how something goes. At least for the first character. The game doesn't have to go in depth as the sense of discovery is interesting but failing to produce a minimum understanding of the game is the best way to scare people away. New Player Experience is a thing, better take care of it from the beginning.
    • If I marry someone PLEASE MAKE THEIR NAME PINK TO ME, ALSO ADD A SMALL GOLDEN RING NEXT TO THEIR NAME. PLEASE IT'S JUST UI. Thank you.
    "Magic is not a tool, little one. It is a river that unites us in its current."

    I heard a bird ♫
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • StyleStyle Member
    That's hard to say. Damn. I guess making it too grindy to make it too hard to see any progress (see SRO) will be a no.

    Making stagnant items (wow legion legendary) where only the number increases will also be boring and I agree with the dailies. I never did them and don't consider them content tbh.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Daily Quests. Never add Daily Quests.
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  • Samson1Samson1 Member
    I guess one of the biggest things for me is that I would like the game to be challenging from level 1... I want to be forced to manage my health and mana and to be able to see that my health and mana bars get low often. I just want to feel the challenge from the get go and not be spoon fed.
    sig-Samson-Final.gif
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    I don't mind repeatable quests like .. a building is being built in town, and some guy is like "bring me wood!" and as long as he needs more wood he still offers the quest and rewards.

    But I have to agree, dailies are a big no-no for me. They are the gateway drug to timegated content. A daily starts off with good intentions. YAY! You get to do a rewarding quest, every day! ... And it turns into, you HAVE to do the rewarding quest every day!! If you miss out you can never go back! You missed it!

    Timegated content in that way is awful. It's one of the worst things about modern WoW. It turns an acceptable grindfest where I could just pull an all nighter and get heaps of rep grinding mobs, into an unacceptable grindfest where I just have to log in every day to do some quests because if I don't I am permanently behind in content. That's a chore. When a game becomes a chore, the developers have failed big time. The stockholders however have won.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Semantics of how quests are written.

    New World got some harsh criticism for some of their proposed quests. They were quite regular quests just not described in line with current expectations.
    Rather than the apparent meaningless; kill 20 soldiers for clan 200 pts..
    Perhaps; your clan needs space to expand, clear X area of soldiers to futher the campaign.. (20 soliders is sufficient and equals 200 pts)

    Not saying what I have written as the solution but perhaps how the same quest can be presented in a different way and generate a sense of need or purpose

    Also Dragon Age got criticism for placing quests parts at distance for no other reason than to increase player play time..
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited July 2020
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