Basing comments on definition of
-Multi-boxing as = Someone is physically at the desktop manually inputting commands (maybe assisted with macros/scripts, though that is a slippery slope).
-Botting = 100% unattended play requiring zero input.
The time investment to go after Multi-boxing would be a massive cost to intrepid for very little return. The amount of effort to try and identify someone at the machine interacting with both/all clients is near impossible. GM shows up, starts asking questions, and the HUMAN sitting there replies and responds, very easy to pretend to be two people, can even spoof different IPs for each client.
Botting on the other hand can be detected easier by first automation monitoring (pretty slick open source pattern recognition stuff is out there that could be monitoring client behaviors). Then when/if a GM shows up to challenge botters they can easily detect if it's a Bot. I think 99% of us who've played MMOs with Bots all can easily identify them without much issue.
Now Multi-boxing won't break the game, but Botting 100% will. I've quite several MMOs simply due to Bots running the server, along with many others.
Botting / Gold Sellers / (companies/groups using 3rd party tools to play the game for money) will kill the game very quickly if people see 100's of bots running around killing everything and harvesting all the resources. I would rather 110% of effort be put into dealing with this type of stuff than wasting any time having a GM talk to a guy running two accounts with some fancy scripts trying to figure out if he is breaking terms of services while 100's of bots are ruining zones.
You destroy an economy you essentially destroy a big portion of the game. Crafting and auction are affected by everything the game has to offer. Multi boxing can destroy the game. You can have multiple people at different locations buying and selling items, you can effectively control a market this way. The time isnt that massive that people wont do it. How many people have max level characters on wow for different classes? I myself have every crafter on ff14 level and 70% of the job classes 70+. You have to start from level 1 for each of them so the time investment isnt so big that people wont do it and i consider myself a casual.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Way too many people are thinking that multiboxing is bad. Botting is bad.
The difference between me using 2 computers beside each other to control 2 accounts is not as efficient as me and my partner using 2 computers beside each other to control 2 accounts. Technically, both of these scenarios are multiboxing. As in, 2 computers in 1 house playing the game.
Based on today’s feedback I have directed the community team to post the next dev discussion on the subject of multi boxing.
Thank you, while I understand what you said in the AMA, but the abuse potential could be catastrophic in my opinion. If you allow multboxing the only limiting factor is time and there is a crap ton of people who have nothing but time on their hands. They also can set up multiple accounts then cancel the subscriptions until they want to use them and only spend the money whenever they want to abuse the system so they are not constantly spending money. I may not be able to bring forth a solution based on development due to my own ignorance of development, but there needs to be something emplaced to prevent the abuse if multiboxing goes forth.
The ability to make multiple characters on one account is nice and all, but the abuse lies in the ability to be in numerous different locations at the same time. That is an advantage no one gains without spending money.
Honestly, if you value a game so much, that you are willing to buy like 10 subs, a PC that can run the game 10 times and are able to do it without botting...
Seriously, just go for it, at this point it seems being ahead of everyone else be the only thing that brings you joy in your life, which is kinda sad...
I am pretty sure that Multiboxing will stay a Problem forever since there isnt anything you can really do against it, but I hav eyet to see it become a big problem...
I mean, lets be honest, how is Multiboxing worse than lets say be a successfull Streamer and have your sheeps flodd you with ressources? And since the Streamers Sheeps are literally just in the game to support their Senpai/Waifu, isnt it basically the same as someone p0laying on multiple accounts at the same time with the goal to make his main account stronger?
A collective group of people coming together to support each other is 100% irrelevant to what multiboxing is. There are mobile gamers who drops 10k on games with multiple accounts to stay high in rank. This shit is rampant in mobile gaming. People with money have no qualms abusing the ever living shit out of the system to their advantage. Multiboxing/accounts is immensely rampant in mobile games. They do this on PC to abuse the system.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Have you actually tried to multibox? Especially totally separate locations at the same time?
I have tried boxing, but using 2 keyboards and mice is not the easiest thing in the world. That is multiboxing.
Way too many people are thinking that multiboxing is bad. Botting is bad.
The difference between me using 2 computers beside each other to control 2 accounts is not as efficient as me and my partner using 2 computers beside each other to control 2 accounts. Technically, both of these scenarios are multiboxing. As in, 2 computers in 1 house playing the game.
You dont have to use 2 computers. You can multibox ith 1 computer. All you have to do is alt tab through the clients. You can run 5 instances on a single computer easily.
Have you actually tried to multibox? Especially totally separate locations at the same time?
I have tried boxing, but using 2 keyboards and mice is not the easiest thing in the world. That is multiboxing.
Using scripts is botting and it will be policed.
You are multiboxing in a way like 10 years ago, shit is way easier than that. There is software that allows you to send signals to multiple virtual environments and it treats each signal as a separate identity.
I feel like a lot of people don't know the difference between multi-boxing and botting/scripting.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Again. How is that bad? You cannot actually control all 5 at the same time. If you could, that would be botting and that will be penalized.
Having 5 instances running on your computer is different than having 5 computers in your house running, how? And why not just have 5 people at those computers. Then it is WAY more efficient.
Also remember that you have to pay for all accounts. And pay in-game taxes on all accounts. And split your time between all accounts. Why not just run 1 account full tilt and be more efficient? You can always have multiple alts on that 1 account that you can switch to in about 35 seconds. There you have your multiple people in multiple places.
Again. How is that bad? You cannot actually control all 5 at the same time. If you could, that would be botting and that will be penalized.
Having 5 instances running on your computer is different than having 5 computers in your house running, how? And why not just have 5 people at those computers. Then it is WAY more efficient.
Also remember that you have to pay for all accounts. And pay in-game taxes on all accounts. And split your time between all accounts. Why not just run 1 account full tilt and be more efficient? You can always have multiple alts on that 1 account that you can switch to in about 35 seconds. There you have your multiple people in multiple places.
Read my first post, it explains entirely why it is bad. You dont need to control all 5 accounts at the exact same time.
It would not be botting to control 5 at the same time. Botting is non player interaction gameplay. The arguments are so entwined at this point it's silly. I've seen people claim family gamers would be penalised if multiboxing is dealt with. Multiboxing happens when multiple clients are open and a third party software synchronises key presses, thus all clients operate at the same time. Having two clients open with two keyboards isnt multiboxing because there is no synchronised key presses, each one is operated manually. The confusion and fear is valid but misinformation runs rife.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Read all of my posts. You cannot control them at the same time, so what bonus do you get?
Read all of my posts. You cannot control them at the same time, so what bonus do you get?
Being at 5 different locations at the exact same time to gather from 5 different locations. Being at 5 different auctions to manipulate the market. This was all explained in the first post.
Multi accounts is a different problem. Multiboxing is literally 20 or more accounts on follow doing group content. It is not 5 separate accounts doing separate things - that would be multi accounting. We will never resolve this issue if three separate issues are rolled under an umbrella term.
Here is another thing I can add, if there is a follow feature you can essentially drag around multiple accounts to a location and gather in those areas. You are paying to have this advantage.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
And you specified that you cannot control all of them at the exact same time. So there goes your whole discussion.
Tell you what. You run 5 instances on your 1 computer (and pay for all). I will get 4 friends, and we will all see who can manipulate the market the best.
Multi accounts is a different problem. Multiboxing is literally 20 or more accounts on follow doing group content. It is not 5 separate accounts doing separate things - that would be multi accounting. We will never resolve this issue if three separate issues are rolled under an umbrella term.
multiboxing is multiaccounting. Multiboxing is having multiple instances of the client running, how does that happen? By having multiple accounts.
And you specified that you cannot control all of them at the exact same time. So there goes your whole discussion.
Tell you what. You run 5 instances on your 1 computer (and pay for all). I will get 4 friends, and we will all see who can manipulate the market the best.
I dont need to control them all at the same time. You learn where the resource nodes spawn and move the character to that location. Eventually through time people are going to learn the respawn rotations and timers for the nodes and will set up timed routes. FF14 does it and you dont have access to that information. It was created by the players. There is an entire website dedicated to timers/locations of each nodes and its easy to set up routes. If you have multiple characters at different locations all I have to do is log on. You require 4 additional people to make this happen and I simply can do this by myself. You pay to be the equivalent of 5 people by your logic. It doesnt take a whole lot of effort to log in when nodes spawn mine and log off so they dont die. You also require 4 friends to be on at the same time every time you log on to do this.
You seem to forgot money isnt an issue for some people and they dont really care what others think when they drop 10k on a video game. That's where it comes into the area of people paying to win. They spend money and gain an advantage a single person cannot.
Multiboxing requires third party software to regulate all accounts at a time with one key press. It does require multi accounting but multi accounting is a completely different operation than multiboxing. Multiboxing isnt even botting. Check out the interview with a multiboxer on youtube if you dont understand the terminologies because all of this hysteria isnt good.
To add to this even further. A Game like FF14 makes it easy to run routes because you can fast travel everywhere. A game where fast travel is super limited. If there are resources on the other side of the map. I can have multipl characters spread out across the land to gather these resources without the need for fast travel at all.
Multiboxing requires third party software to regulate all accounts at a time with one key press. It does require multi accounting but multi accounting is a completely different operation than multiboxing. Multiboxing isnt even botting. Check out the interview with a multiboxer on youtube if you dont understand the terminologies because all of this hysteria isnt good.
Multiboxing requires that if you want to control them at the same time, but what im talking about you simply just alt+tab through the multiple clients. Forgot the controlling them at the exact same time, you just simply tab through the clients. Its immensely less effort to multibox multiple accounts than to simply log off, log on, log off, log on. You can have all accounts logged on at the same time tabbing through the clients.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Multiboxing requires third party software to regulate all accounts at a time with one key press. It does require multi accounting but multi accounting is a completely different operation than multiboxing. Multiboxing isnt even botting. Check out the interview with a multiboxer on youtube if you dont understand the terminologies because all of this hysteria isnt good.
That is botting, and it is already on the radar to be policed. Multiboxing is being at multiple computers (even if they are virtual) and controlling each by yourself.
Multiboxing requires third party software to regulate all accounts at a time with one key press. It does require multi accounting but multi accounting is a completely different operation than multiboxing. Multiboxing isnt even botting. Check out the interview with a multiboxer on youtube if you dont understand the terminologies because all of this hysteria isnt good.
That is botting, and it is already on the radar to be policed. Multiboxing is being at multiple computers (even if they are virtual) and controlling each by yourself.
You dont even need a virtual environment to run multiple instances. isboxer is software that allows multiple instances in one environment.
You said multiboxing is P2W. I can verify it isn't.
Multiboxing is running 2 computers at the same time without running scripts. Logging off and on is just using multiple accounts. Not boxing. That is the same as logging in all your alts. No problem.
Edit:
Can nobody actually use the search function? There are multiple threads of the same things popping up by the hour.
Multiboxing has multiple meanings, you can use multiple computers or you can set up a virtual environment on your ONE computer running the game on both. I used to do it with Perfect World International (it was permitted), it is definitely a P2W feature, If you can do multiple things at one time to save you time and money being in 2(multiple) places at once how is that not p2w? Now only the Virtual environment or multiple clients running on the ONE computer should not be allowed, the first i don't view as P2W in any sense.
Now Steven has stated "My position is that launching multiple applications on a single computer will be prohibited, but multi boxing from separate computers is acceptable, as long as the client that's running is not under any 3rd party program or macros. " - 7/26/2020 11:13 am (Discord, news-aoc).
so from what his opinion is, if someone wants to use multiple computers and have one account on each that is allowed and it should be, it would be almost impossible without asking personal questions if you're using multiple accounts or is your roommate (used in a broad sense to cover anyone living with you family or not) also playing the game with you in the same or another room. So if they want to pay a subscription fee for multiple accounts on different computers they should be allowed to, and that shouldn't be considered p2w, but if they want to use a third-party program or complex (up to AOC how they define complex) macro that should not be allowed.
You said multiboxing is P2W. I can verify it isn't.
Multiboxing is running 2 computers at the same time without running scripts. Logging off and on is just using multiple accounts. Not boxing. That is the same as logging in all your alts. No problem.
Edit:
Can nobody actually use the search function? There are multiple threads of the same things popping up by the hour.
Multiboxing has multiple meanings, you can use multiple computers or you can set up a virtual environment on your ONE computer running the game on both. I used to do it with Perfect World International (it was permitted), it is definitely a P2W feature, If you can do multiple things at one time to save you time and money being in 2(multiple) places at once how is that not p2w? Now only the Virtual environment or multiple clients running on the ONE computer should not be allowed, the first i don't view as P2W in any sense.
Now Steven has stated "My position is that launching multiple applications on a single computer will be prohibited, but multi boxing from separate computers is acceptable, as long as the client that's running is not under any 3rd party program or macros. " - 7/26/2020 11:13 am (Discord, news-aoc).
so from what his opinion is, if someone wants to use multiple computers and have one account on each that is allowed and it should be, it would be almost impossible without asking personal questions if you're using multiple accounts or is your roommate (used in a broad sense to cover anyone living with you family or not) also playing the game with you in the same or another room. So if they want to pay a subscription fee for multiple accounts on different computers they should be allowed to, and that shouldn't be considered p2w, but if they want to use a third-party program or complex (up to AOC how they define complex) macro that should not be allowed.
Virtual environments remove the multiple computer feature. Albeit it consumes more resources.
Alright, so what's your solution to the problem?
Like, the developers have already aknowledged that it is one.
I get wanting to voice a concern, but just saying 'x is bad' is not really helping anyone.
Steven wanted people like me to come to the forums and post my thoughts. Im not well versed in how to design a solution. Saying X is bad is exactly what Steven said in his AMA. To come here and talk about experiences. You dont discuss bugs and say, "Well if you dont know how to fix the bug why did you post." Im not paid to create solutions, but I do know as a consumer what I do and dont like, which is what Stevens wanted me to voice.
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LoyhetaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
In my opinion there is zero legitimately good reason to multibox. There is only profit at the cost of more subs (literally paying to profit).
The negatives far outweigh the positives, if there are any. Negatives include fundamentally ruining any pvp you are involved with. If you can target the same character and obliterate them, I don't see how that isn't unfair/p2w. If you can farm resources with multiple accounts, how isn't that p2w? If you can set up your freeholds next to each other and fully collect, process, and craft items without having to worry about others dictating prices, how is that not p2w?
Multiboxing removes the social aspect of the game which is one of the most important parts. With MBers collecting and flooding the market, it ruins the economy.
I think the only way it should be even allowed is as long as they aren't controlled at the same time. If you want to tab between windows and perform actions separately, I'm still annoyed but at least it will be more inconvenient for them. I still don't like it. I've been harassed by way too many MBers over the past decade to think this is acceptable. I will never think it is acceptable to be targeted by 5 copies of the same character and one shot.
In my opinion there is zero legitimately good reason to multibox. There is only profit at the cost of more subs (literally paying to profit).
The negatives far outweigh the positives, if there are any. Negatives include fundamentally ruining any pvp you are involved with. If you can target the same character and obliterate them, I don't see how that isn't unfair/p2w. If you can farm resources with multiple accounts, how isn't that p2w? If you can set up your freeholds next to each other and fully collect, process, and craft items without having to worry about others dictating prices, how is that not p2w?
Multiboxing removes the social aspect of the game which is one of the most important parts. With MBers collecting and flooding the market, it ruins the economy.
I think the only way it should be even allowed is as long as they aren't controlled at the same time. If you want to tab between windows and perform actions separately, I'm still annoyed but at least it will be more inconvenient for them. I still don't like it. I've been harassed by way too many MBers over the past decade to think this is acceptable. I will never think it is acceptable to be targeted by 5 copies of the same character and one shot.
What's the point of limiting crafting on a single character if multiboxing is a thing? If they are not allowing multiboxing on a single computer. My only question is, does virtual environment circumvent this? If so than that statement is moot.
Comments
You destroy an economy you essentially destroy a big portion of the game. Crafting and auction are affected by everything the game has to offer. Multi boxing can destroy the game. You can have multiple people at different locations buying and selling items, you can effectively control a market this way. The time isnt that massive that people wont do it. How many people have max level characters on wow for different classes? I myself have every crafter on ff14 level and 70% of the job classes 70+. You have to start from level 1 for each of them so the time investment isnt so big that people wont do it and i consider myself a casual.
The difference between me using 2 computers beside each other to control 2 accounts is not as efficient as me and my partner using 2 computers beside each other to control 2 accounts. Technically, both of these scenarios are multiboxing. As in, 2 computers in 1 house playing the game.
Thank you, while I understand what you said in the AMA, but the abuse potential could be catastrophic in my opinion. If you allow multboxing the only limiting factor is time and there is a crap ton of people who have nothing but time on their hands. They also can set up multiple accounts then cancel the subscriptions until they want to use them and only spend the money whenever they want to abuse the system so they are not constantly spending money. I may not be able to bring forth a solution based on development due to my own ignorance of development, but there needs to be something emplaced to prevent the abuse if multiboxing goes forth.
The ability to make multiple characters on one account is nice and all, but the abuse lies in the ability to be in numerous different locations at the same time. That is an advantage no one gains without spending money.
A collective group of people coming together to support each other is 100% irrelevant to what multiboxing is. There are mobile gamers who drops 10k on games with multiple accounts to stay high in rank. This shit is rampant in mobile gaming. People with money have no qualms abusing the ever living shit out of the system to their advantage. Multiboxing/accounts is immensely rampant in mobile games. They do this on PC to abuse the system.
I have tried boxing, but using 2 keyboards and mice is not the easiest thing in the world. That is multiboxing.
Using scripts is botting and it will be policed.
You dont have to use 2 computers. You can multibox ith 1 computer. All you have to do is alt tab through the clients. You can run 5 instances on a single computer easily.
You are multiboxing in a way like 10 years ago, shit is way easier than that. There is software that allows you to send signals to multiple virtual environments and it treats each signal as a separate identity.
Having 5 instances running on your computer is different than having 5 computers in your house running, how? And why not just have 5 people at those computers. Then it is WAY more efficient.
Also remember that you have to pay for all accounts. And pay in-game taxes on all accounts. And split your time between all accounts. Why not just run 1 account full tilt and be more efficient? You can always have multiple alts on that 1 account that you can switch to in about 35 seconds. There you have your multiple people in multiple places.
Read my first post, it explains entirely why it is bad. You dont need to control all 5 accounts at the exact same time.
What I described in my first post requires zero botting and scripting to achieve.
Being at 5 different locations at the exact same time to gather from 5 different locations. Being at 5 different auctions to manipulate the market. This was all explained in the first post.
Tell you what. You run 5 instances on your 1 computer (and pay for all). I will get 4 friends, and we will all see who can manipulate the market the best.
multiboxing is multiaccounting. Multiboxing is having multiple instances of the client running, how does that happen? By having multiple accounts.
I dont need to control them all at the same time. You learn where the resource nodes spawn and move the character to that location. Eventually through time people are going to learn the respawn rotations and timers for the nodes and will set up timed routes. FF14 does it and you dont have access to that information. It was created by the players. There is an entire website dedicated to timers/locations of each nodes and its easy to set up routes. If you have multiple characters at different locations all I have to do is log on. You require 4 additional people to make this happen and I simply can do this by myself. You pay to be the equivalent of 5 people by your logic. It doesnt take a whole lot of effort to log in when nodes spawn mine and log off so they dont die. You also require 4 friends to be on at the same time every time you log on to do this.
You seem to forgot money isnt an issue for some people and they dont really care what others think when they drop 10k on a video game. That's where it comes into the area of people paying to win. They spend money and gain an advantage a single person cannot.
Multiboxing requires that if you want to control them at the same time, but what im talking about you simply just alt+tab through the multiple clients. Forgot the controlling them at the exact same time, you just simply tab through the clients. Its immensely less effort to multibox multiple accounts than to simply log off, log on, log off, log on. You can have all accounts logged on at the same time tabbing through the clients.
That is botting, and it is already on the radar to be policed. Multiboxing is being at multiple computers (even if they are virtual) and controlling each by yourself.
You dont even need a virtual environment to run multiple instances. isboxer is software that allows multiple instances in one environment.
Multiboxing has multiple meanings, you can use multiple computers or you can set up a virtual environment on your ONE computer running the game on both. I used to do it with Perfect World International (it was permitted), it is definitely a P2W feature, If you can do multiple things at one time to save you time and money being in 2(multiple) places at once how is that not p2w? Now only the Virtual environment or multiple clients running on the ONE computer should not be allowed, the first i don't view as P2W in any sense.
so from what his opinion is, if someone wants to use multiple computers and have one account on each that is allowed and it should be, it would be almost impossible without asking personal questions if you're using multiple accounts or is your roommate (used in a broad sense to cover anyone living with you family or not) also playing the game with you in the same or another room. So if they want to pay a subscription fee for multiple accounts on different computers they should be allowed to, and that shouldn't be considered p2w, but if they want to use a third-party program or complex (up to AOC how they define complex) macro that should not be allowed.
Like, the developers have already aknowledged that it is one.
I get wanting to voice a concern, but just saying 'x is bad' is not really helping anyone.
Virtual environments remove the multiple computer feature. Albeit it consumes more resources.
Steven wanted people like me to come to the forums and post my thoughts. Im not well versed in how to design a solution. Saying X is bad is exactly what Steven said in his AMA. To come here and talk about experiences. You dont discuss bugs and say, "Well if you dont know how to fix the bug why did you post." Im not paid to create solutions, but I do know as a consumer what I do and dont like, which is what Stevens wanted me to voice.
The negatives far outweigh the positives, if there are any. Negatives include fundamentally ruining any pvp you are involved with. If you can target the same character and obliterate them, I don't see how that isn't unfair/p2w. If you can farm resources with multiple accounts, how isn't that p2w? If you can set up your freeholds next to each other and fully collect, process, and craft items without having to worry about others dictating prices, how is that not p2w?
Multiboxing removes the social aspect of the game which is one of the most important parts. With MBers collecting and flooding the market, it ruins the economy.
I think the only way it should be even allowed is as long as they aren't controlled at the same time. If you want to tab between windows and perform actions separately, I'm still annoyed but at least it will be more inconvenient for them. I still don't like it. I've been harassed by way too many MBers over the past decade to think this is acceptable. I will never think it is acceptable to be targeted by 5 copies of the same character and one shot.
What's the point of limiting crafting on a single character if multiboxing is a thing? If they are not allowing multiboxing on a single computer. My only question is, does virtual environment circumvent this? If so than that statement is moot.