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Multiboxing input and why its p2w

13

Comments

  • phdmonster wrote: »
    Alright, so what's your solution to the problem?
    Like, the developers have already aknowledged that it is one.

    I get wanting to voice a concern, but just saying 'x is bad' is not really helping anyone.

    Steven wanted people like me to come to the forums and post my thoughts. Im not well versed in how to design a solution. Saying X is bad is exactly what Steven said in his AMA. To come here and talk about experiences. You dont discuss bugs and say, "Well if you dont know how to fix the bug why did you post." Im not paid to create solutions, but I do know as a consumer what I do and dont like, which is what Stevens wanted me to voice.

    As i said, you are entitled to an opinion and to voice a concern

    Don't do everything a stranger on the internet tells you to do. Who knows what they might ask of you next?
  • edited July 2020
    phdmonster wrote: »
    phdmonster wrote: »
    Alright, so what's your solution to the problem?
    Like, the developers have already aknowledged that it is one.

    I get wanting to voice a concern, but just saying 'x is bad' is not really helping anyone.

    Steven wanted people like me to come to the forums and post my thoughts. Im not well versed in how to design a solution. Saying X is bad is exactly what Steven said in his AMA. To come here and talk about experiences. You dont discuss bugs and say, "Well if you dont know how to fix the bug why did you post." Im not paid to create solutions, but I do know as a consumer what I do and dont like, which is what Stevens wanted me to voice.

    As i said, you are entitled to an opinion and to voice a concern

    Don't do everything a stranger on the internet tells you to do. Who knows what they might ask of you next?

    You mean the creative director of AoC. That stranger?
  • phdmonster wrote: »
    phdmonster wrote: »
    Alright, so what's your solution to the problem?
    Like, the developers have already aknowledged that it is one.

    I get wanting to voice a concern, but just saying 'x is bad' is not really helping anyone.

    Steven wanted people like me to come to the forums and post my thoughts. Im not well versed in how to design a solution. Saying X is bad is exactly what Steven said in his AMA. To come here and talk about experiences. You dont discuss bugs and say, "Well if you dont know how to fix the bug why did you post." Im not paid to create solutions, but I do know as a consumer what I do and dont like, which is what Stevens wanted me to voice.

    As i said, you are entitled to an opinion and to voice a concern

    Don't do everything a stranger on the internet tells you to do. Who knows what they might ask of you next?

    You mean the creative director of AoC. That stranger?

    Yea.. I haven't met him, I don't know him. Sure, i know his face and what his voice sounds like, but he is just a stranger who i have no actual bond with.
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    In my opinion, there is no difference than me running 2 computers side by side and me and my partner / friend running 2 computers side by side. Since both boxes have people at them and are in the same room, that would technically be multiboxing.
  • In my opinion, there is no difference than me running 2 computers side by side and me and my partner / friend running 2 computers side by side. Since both boxes have people at them and are in the same room, that would technically be multiboxing.

    It technically wouldnt, multiboxing is explicitly 1 person controlling multiple accounts.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    loyheta wrote: »
    In my opinion there is zero legitimately good reason to multibox. There is only profit at the cost of more subs (literally paying to profit).
    In the games I have multiboxed in, it has cost me more in game currency than I have made out of it.

    That is because the reasons for me doing it are purely to do with challenge. It is the only way to actually find challenge in some games.

    Perhaps the most interesting part of all of this is how most people actually can't even spot a multiboxer. I have quite often had groups kind of form around me while boxing in various games with open dungeon content - I'd be running around with a tank, a healer and a DPS just minding my own business, and some random passer by would ask if they could join. I'd often (though not always) say yes, and then we'd go on killing more stuff.

    The number of times I'd have one of these players get in to discussions with multiple characters that I was running is actually astonishing.

    On the other hand, I sometimes play with my nephew who - due to issues with his fingers is unable to always manually direct his character, so often puts it on auto follow (he is one of the best single group healers I have ever played with though).

    People see the healer auto following the tank and start complaining about multiboxing - even though there is none of that happening at that point in time.

    At it's very worst, multiboxing is something that people think is bad, but that never actually has any impact on them. At best, it is a thing that people can be among for hours and not even realize.

    Botting, on the other hand, is easy to spot and has potential negative issues.
  • LoyhetaLoyheta Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If they rule that controlling characters simultaneously is botting then I'm much much much more comfortable. If people can use separate physical computers to control them then I'm slightly more comfortable. If they say that using virtual computers to control multiple characters with one mouse and keyboard I don't see how that isn't more like the first type than the second.

    If people want to pay $32 to have once character put another on follow to run around gathering ore or healing them while their main dps, I can live with that. As long as they are controlled with separate devices.
    Referral Code: KRIFFNYDUZV6L9SF
  • Steven and AoC team could make that you can open up to 2 maximum clients (per pc) if players want multiclienting.
    It wouldnt ruin other players gameplay or server economy.
  • Srky wrote: »
    Steven and AoC team could make that you can open up to 2 maximum clients (per pc) if players want multiclienting.
    It wouldnt ruin other players gameplay or server economy.

    You can use virtual clients to create more.
  • loyheta wrote: »
    If they rule that controlling characters simultaneously is botting then I'm much much much more comfortable. If people can use separate physical computers to control them then I'm slightly more comfortable. If they say that using virtual computers to control multiple characters with one mouse and keyboard I don't see how that isn't more like the first type than the second.

    If people want to pay $32 to have once character put another on follow to run around gathering ore or healing them while their main dps, I can live with that. As long as they are controlled with separate devices.

    That is p2w if you can live with that and I cant.
  • noaani wrote: »
    loyheta wrote: »
    In my opinion there is zero legitimately good reason to multibox. There is only profit at the cost of more subs (literally paying to profit).
    In the games I have multiboxed in, it has cost me more in game currency than I have made out of it.

    That is because the reasons for me doing it are purely to do with challenge. It is the only way to actually find challenge in some games.

    Perhaps the most interesting part of all of this is how most people actually can't even spot a multiboxer. I have quite often had groups kind of form around me while boxing in various games with open dungeon content - I'd be running around with a tank, a healer and a DPS just minding my own business, and some random passer by would ask if they could join. I'd often (though not always) say yes, and then we'd go on killing more stuff.

    The number of times I'd have one of these players get in to discussions with multiple characters that I was running is actually astonishing.

    On the other hand, I sometimes play with my nephew who - due to issues with his fingers is unable to always manually direct his character, so often puts it on auto follow (he is one of the best single group healers I have ever played with though).

    People see the healer auto following the tank and start complaining about multiboxing - even though there is none of that happening at that point in time.

    At it's very worst, multiboxing is something that people think is bad, but that never actually has any impact on them. At best, it is a thing that people can be among for hours and not even realize.

    Botting, on the other hand, is easy to spot and has potential negative issues.

    You cant see a virus, but it still exists and still affects things. Simply not being able to tell its happening or not seeing it is a moot point. Since you yourself arent able to tell, it doesnt mean it exists. It is still an advantage given to someone who pays more.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Just have to test it out and fix it as we go it seems
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    noaani wrote: »
    loyheta wrote: »
    In my opinion there is zero legitimately good reason to multibox. There is only profit at the cost of more subs (literally paying to profit).
    In the games I have multiboxed in, it has cost me more in game currency than I have made out of it.

    That is because the reasons for me doing it are purely to do with challenge. It is the only way to actually find challenge in some games.

    Perhaps the most interesting part of all of this is how most people actually can't even spot a multiboxer. I have quite often had groups kind of form around me while boxing in various games with open dungeon content - I'd be running around with a tank, a healer and a DPS just minding my own business, and some random passer by would ask if they could join. I'd often (though not always) say yes, and then we'd go on killing more stuff.

    The number of times I'd have one of these players get in to discussions with multiple characters that I was running is actually astonishing.

    On the other hand, I sometimes play with my nephew who - due to issues with his fingers is unable to always manually direct his character, so often puts it on auto follow (he is one of the best single group healers I have ever played with though).

    People see the healer auto following the tank and start complaining about multiboxing - even though there is none of that happening at that point in time.

    At it's very worst, multiboxing is something that people think is bad, but that never actually has any impact on them. At best, it is a thing that people can be among for hours and not even realize.

    Botting, on the other hand, is easy to spot and has potential negative issues.

    You cant see a virus, but it still exists and still affects things. Simply not being able to tell its happening or not seeing it is a moot point. Since you yourself arent able to tell, it doesnt mean it exists. It is still an advantage given to someone who pays more.

    Except it isn't.

    Tell me exactly which part of the following is where you draw the line.

    I have two computers side by side. Both have an account running, I am playing one, my significant other is playing the other.

    I occasionally press a button on my significant others computer to help out, when there is a thing needing to be done that they have missed.

    I press more buttons than my significant other, even though they are still there and still playing.

    I press all buttons on both accounts, even though my significant other is still there, still sitting at that one computer.

    My significant other gets up to make a sammich, I keep playing.

    Somewhere in there, there is a line that was crossed, and I want to know where you think it is.

    Before answering, please keep in mind that the next question I have for you will be suggestions as to how Intrepid would be able to discern exactly if a situation arises where that line has been crossed.
  • edited July 2020
    noaani wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    loyheta wrote: »
    In my opinion there is zero legitimately good reason to multibox. There is only profit at the cost of more subs (literally paying to profit).
    In the games I have multiboxed in, it has cost me more in game currency than I have made out of it.

    That is because the reasons for me doing it are purely to do with challenge. It is the only way to actually find challenge in some games.

    Perhaps the most interesting part of all of this is how most people actually can't even spot a multiboxer. I have quite often had groups kind of form around me while boxing in various games with open dungeon content - I'd be running around with a tank, a healer and a DPS just minding my own business, and some random passer by would ask if they could join. I'd often (though not always) say yes, and then we'd go on killing more stuff.

    The number of times I'd have one of these players get in to discussions with multiple characters that I was running is actually astonishing.

    On the other hand, I sometimes play with my nephew who - due to issues with his fingers is unable to always manually direct his character, so often puts it on auto follow (he is one of the best single group healers I have ever played with though).

    People see the healer auto following the tank and start complaining about multiboxing - even though there is none of that happening at that point in time.

    At it's very worst, multiboxing is something that people think is bad, but that never actually has any impact on them. At best, it is a thing that people can be among for hours and not even realize.

    Botting, on the other hand, is easy to spot and has potential negative issues.

    You cant see a virus, but it still exists and still affects things. Simply not being able to tell its happening or not seeing it is a moot point. Since you yourself arent able to tell, it doesnt mean it exists. It is still an advantage given to someone who pays more.

    Except it isn't.

    Tell me exactly which part of the following is where you draw the line.

    I have two computers side by side. Both have an account running, I am playing one, my significant other is playing the other.

    I occasionally press a button on my significant others computer to help out, when there is a thing needing to be done that they have missed.

    I press more buttons than my significant other, even though they are still there and still playing.

    I press all buttons on both accounts, even though my significant other is still there, still sitting at that one computer.

    My significant other gets up to make a sammich, I keep playing.

    Somewhere in there, there is a line that was crossed, and I want to know where you think it is.

    Before answering, please keep in mind that the next question I have for you will be suggestions as to how Intrepid would be able to discern exactly if a situation arises where that line has been crossed.

    None of those because none of those have anything to do with what im talking about. Steven mentioned you cant multibox on a single computer, im fine with that then. Im curious now if they can detect virtual environments. Because if they cant then you can multibox easily on a single computer. If someone wants to play on two different computers that is their perogative. You cant detect that, but virtual environments is completely different and doesnt require 3rd party software.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Botting is running scripts/macros which enable you not to be present at all, botting requires no input. Multi Boxing requires input from the player. Scripts can be used to enable multi-boxing but the player is in control of multi-boxing. Botting has no input from a player except to begin the processes.

    Multi Accounting lets you harness Alts in direct unity with a Main. Multi Accounting is often used when PvP Experience is enabled. You just kill your alts repeatedly until the maximum level is gained. Multi Accounting is required for Multi Boxing, but Multi Accounting isn't always needed for Botting. You can use Multi Accounting with Botting, and multi-accounting is the bridge to all three situations, but, multi-accounting has numerous purposes and it is impossible to say how advantageous multi-accounting will be in Ashes.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Botting is running scripts/macros which enable you not to be present at all, botting requires no input. Multi Boxing requires input from the player. Scripts can be used to enable multi-boxing but the player is in control of multi-boxing. Botting has no input from a player except to begin the processes.

    Multi Accounting lets you harness Alts in direct unity with a Main. Multi Accounting is often used when PvP Experience is enabled. You just kill your alts repeatedly until the maximum level is gained. Multi Accounting is required for Multi Boxing, but Multi Accounting isn't always needed for Botting. You can use Multi Accounting with Botting, and multi-accounting is the bridge to all three situations, but, multi-accounting has numerous purposes and it is impossible to say how advantageous multi-accounting will be in Ashes.

    This thread isnt about botting
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This thread isnt about botting

    Thank you, I won't touch your HoHos. lol
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • nibiru97nibiru97 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    You dont even need a virtual environment to run multiple instances. isboxer is software that allows multiple instances in one environment.

    I would assume that isboxer would fall under 3rd party software, which is not allowed.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    nibiru97 wrote: »

    That is botting, and it is already on the radar to be policed. Multiboxing is being at multiple computers (even if they are virtual) and controlling each by yourself.
    You dont even need a virtual environment to run multiple instances. isboxer is software that allows multiple instances in one environment.

    I would assume that isboxer would fall under 3rd party software, which is not allowed.

    3rd party software is misunderstood, and a very misused term.

    Windows is 3rd party software.
  • nibiru97nibiru97 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    Let me start off saying I don't multi box. However, I don't even see why its a big deal. If scripting is not allowed you can literally only control one account at a time. The economy will not be affected to any noticeable degree because of some multi boxers. Some players may be able to lvl faster having a pocket healer compared to other solo players. But in an mmo that doesn't really matter much. People multi boxing in a pvp situation are at a disadvantage. As far as game currency goes, I've always found ways to be one of the richest players on my server in all mmo's I play and I only ever use one account.
  • nibiru97nibiru97 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    @noaani

    I'm specifically referring to what Steven said about 3rd party programs and multi boxing.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    nibiru97 wrote: »

    I'm specifically referring to what Steven said about 3rd party programs and multi boxing.
    I don't think you got my point.

    Virtualization programs (including isboxer, which is the worst I've seen) interact with operating systems, not applications.

    Intrepid can not have any say in anything other than what applications interact with their software.
  • nibiru97nibiru97 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @noaani Well then if they cant stop it, they cant stop it. I personally don't think non scripted multi boxers is a big deal anyways. How they affect the server is extremely overblown.
  • noaani wrote: »
    nibiru97 wrote: »

    I'm specifically referring to what Steven said about 3rd party programs and multi boxing.
    I don't think you got my point.

    Virtualization programs (including isboxer, which is the worst I've seen) interact with operating systems, not applications.

    Intrepid can not have any say in anything other than what applications interact with their software.

    I'm fairly certain that in their game they can make the rules and do whatever they want with it. If they say you can't run MSWord at the same time as the game because they believe it provides an unfair advantage in some way then that is their right. You may not like it or agree with it, but the fact is that in these games you don't own the game, or a licensed right to always play the game, or even your characters that you have made and invested into.
  • nibiru97 wrote: »
    You dont even need a virtual environment to run multiple instances. isboxer is software that allows multiple instances in one environment.

    I would assume that isboxer would fall under 3rd party software, which is not allowed.

    Yea after learning that im trying to figure out how virtual environments fall under this now. That made me less worried about the p2w aspect by a lot.
  • nibiru97 wrote: »
    Let me start off saying I don't multi box. However, I don't even see why its a big deal. If scripting is not allowed you can literally only control one account at a time. The economy will not be affected to any noticeable degree because of some multi boxers. Some players may be able to lvl faster having a pocket healer compared to other solo players. But in an mmo that doesn't really matter much. People multi boxing in a pvp situation are at a disadvantage. As far as game currency goes, I've always found ways to be one of the richest players on my server in all mmo's I play and I only ever use one account.

    In this sense though. Didnt those games have fast travel?
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Roymachine wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    nibiru97 wrote: »

    I'm specifically referring to what Steven said about 3rd party programs and multi boxing.
    I don't think you got my point.

    Virtualization programs (including isboxer, which is the worst I've seen) interact with operating systems, not applications.

    Intrepid can not have any say in anything other than what applications interact with their software.

    I'm fairly certain that in their game they can make the rules and do whatever they want with it.

    Actually, they can't.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    nibiru97 wrote: »
    You dont even need a virtual environment to run multiple instances. isboxer is software that allows multiple instances in one environment.

    I would assume that isboxer would fall under 3rd party software, which is not allowed.

    Yea after learning that im trying to figure out how virtual environments fall under this now. That made me less worried about the p2w aspect by a lot.

    The portion of isboxer that interfaces with WoW would be considered against the EULA in most other games - that is why WoW is the only game it does this with.

    Virtual environments have no interaction with the game client.
  • noaani wrote: »
    nibiru97 wrote: »
    You dont even need a virtual environment to run multiple instances. isboxer is software that allows multiple instances in one environment.

    I would assume that isboxer would fall under 3rd party software, which is not allowed.

    Yea after learning that im trying to figure out how virtual environments fall under this now. That made me less worried about the p2w aspect by a lot.

    The portion of isboxer that interfaces with WoW would be considered against the EULA in most other games - that is why WoW is the only game it does this with.

    Virtual environments have no interaction with the game client.

    Then you can multibox on a single pc
  • KohlKohl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't see an issue with multiboxing.
    Are you telling me that I shouldn't be able to open up 2 paid instances of the game, and use both of them in the same time? That's silly. You shouldn't dictate the amount of time a player spends in the game.
    You can only control a single box at a time anyway. If I want a character on a second account to reach mastery in another class, why shouldn't I be able to?
    They should focus on botting, and people using scripts instead. Not outright ban multiboxing.
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