Starting an open world PvP fight

Hi everyone, I was just wondering how does the open world PvP works in terms like starting a fight with someone. Like do you declare a fight to him somehow or you just start attacking him. Hopefully it's not the second one coz that would give advantage to the attacker since he's the 1st one to attack. And i think of this as if both of them were non-combatants.
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Comments

  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    edited August 1
    If they are flagged as Combatant, then just jump on him. If they arent then just ask them if they wanna fight or dont give a damn and attack then too. You could ask a friend to kill you to get rid of the Corruption after killing them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    Edit:
    Okay I just read the last part xD
    Then there is not much you can do. If you attack him and kill him you get corrupted the same as when you are a combatant.
    You could always challenge him to an honor duel? xD
    KkvMmA5.png
  • Damokles wrote: »
    If they are flagged as Combatant, then just jump on him. If they arent then just ask them if they wanna fight or dont give a damn and attack then too. You could ask a friend to kill you to get rid of the Corruption after killing them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    Edit:
    Okay I just read the last part xD
    Then there is not much you can do. If you attack him and kill him you get corrupted the same as when you are a combatant.
    You could always challenge him to an honor duel? xD

    Indirectly exposing a weakness of the corruption system while answering a question about open world pvp. I like it.
  • But it's still kinda floppy. Imagine farming some mobs or just gathering in some area and there is another guy there doing the same and once you 2 looted everything he randomly kills you hoping you will drop those materials you just looted... it's not fair coz he attacks first so he's in advantage from the very beginning of the fight, if you can call that a fight
  • JexzJexz Member
    keeps you on your toes if you see him coming after you attack him first. If he attacks back neither of you will be corrupted.

    You only become corrupted if you kill someone who does not defend themselves.
  • You gotta be on your toes whole time in this game then, coz anyone can get a random thought of killing u.
  • jubilumjubilum Member, Pioneer
    edited August 1
    Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.
  • Well i dont dislike it that much but i dont like being in disadvantage before the fight even starts, even though it makes it even more challenging so it would just make me chase that dude and kill him mutiple times
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    Beateerr wrote: »
    But it's still kinda floppy. Imagine farming some mobs or just gathering in some area and there is another guy there doing the same and once you 2 looted everything he randomly kills you hoping you will drop those materials you just looted... it's not fair coz he attacks first so he's in advantage from the very beginning of the fight, if you can call that a fight

    I myself feel that this is what keeps a game interesting is the threat of loss and death. I am in several threads discussing other ways to add to being a bad guy in this game, however, I know what you mean and sympathize with your point of view. AoC might not protect you in the short run, u may die and drop things ( I don't know all the rules on that) but in the long run that guy who killed you will be only getting more hassle then it is worth if you let him and he gets corruption. If you are a solo grinder who just likes spending your time in a game collecting things and completing things or hell you just want to hunt meat and literally open up a restaurant in the middle of the woods then there is potential to be dicked with. I do believe this game is pretty balanced in deterring griefing or unwanted combat while still also allowing it, yet there will still be some people that absolutely do not ever ever want it and others like myself who want more. The only way to completely please both sides is to do specialized servers or something like war mode in warcraft where if you never want to be targetable then you turn off the option and if you choose to play the game with the potential risk of being targeted by a bad person who wishes to become corrupted at your expense then maybe give a little xp boost and gold drop in like wow did/does.

    The game currently exists in a pretty balanced state to not outright prevent such actions yet clearly punishing those who do. I think it will be enough to have just a tiny few people actually out there being openly corrupted, and you will most likely not be as fearful as in other games, but the game is still being developed and updated and taking feedback from the community so have faith!
  • KhanaKhana Member
    jubilum wrote: »
    Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.
    Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

    If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    Khana wrote: »
    jubilum wrote: »
    Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.
    Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

    If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

    Very true but you should not alienate people who have no desire at all in ever encountering a pvp situation. This game allows it, so that is already out the window. Now you gotta protect against bad pvp and good pvp and that is where grey area gets introduced with exploiting the system from both ends, the good guys and the bad guys can both find ways to exploit it. I am no dev, but I have played so many games and wasted so many hours because it is what I do and I don't care if I am judged on it, but what it does give me experience in this. As much as I do not want to promote WoW because that game sucks the soul out of gaming, their war mode system is very good. No new severs needed, just flip a switch and u can be targeted or not be targeted. You still have access to arena and battlegrounds but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp.
  • SSRogue wrote: »
    Khana wrote: »
    jubilum wrote: »
    Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.
    Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

    If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

    Very true but you should not alienate people who have no desire at all in ever encountering a pvp situation. This game allows it, so that is already out the window. Now you gotta protect against bad pvp and good pvp and that is where grey area gets introduced with exploiting the system from both ends, the good guys and the bad guys can both find ways to exploit it. I am no dev, but I have played so many games and wasted so many hours because it is what I do and I don't care if I am judged on it, but what it does give me experience in this. As much as I do not want to promote WoW because that game sucks the soul out of gaming, their war mode system is very good. No new severs needed, just flip a switch and u can be targeted or not be targeted. You still have access to arena and battlegrounds but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp.

    NO, just NO.
    The systemworked pretty well in Lineage2.
    The game is OPEN WORLD PvP and systems are in place to avoid griefing.
    If you want to farm and be safe, re-evaluate your expectations about this game.
    Steven said it several times "this game is not for everyone".

    If you can switch your PvP flag, there's no point in Open World PvP, all the risk is gone. You're not playing Ashes of Creation, it's just a completely different game.

    You really need to read about the game and how it works and think what Open World PvP does for the game.
  • "but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp."

    then by definition it is not unwilling participation in pvp. Cause you choose it. I blame WOW for this mentality. That game just let players torture each other in pvp with no check and no balances and now because of that we have hoards of scarred people who think PvP and have flashbacks of getting corpse camped for 6 hours. They think that is PvP. They think that is open world PvP. They think that is what PvP players want in every game.
  • UlfUlf Member
    If you guys ever played Lineage2 you'd have a better understading of how the system worked( is not exactly the same but it's... 80% the same )The good thing about it, is that it increased the drop chance for a corrupted character iE: If a guy wants to kick you out of his spot, i has to think about the sweet weapon/gear that he has on, because if you are red, you drop like a f***n piñata.

    The ting goes likes this.. you have two players, farming in a spot, one wants to kick the other out. Normally your nametag is white so: player 1 attacks player 2 -> player 1 acquires purple nametag ( flag status ). Player 2 has three options.
    (OP1)Remain white and only drop a small amount of hunting certs ( or farming goods ) upon death ( like if you died because a monster killed you ). But the player that kills you becomes red and vulnerable to hunting parties / you coming back for his soul ( remember: corrupted( red ) = more loot drop on death.
    (OP2) Player 2 hits back to defend his spot, acquires purple nametag and both players fight for an honourable pvp for the spot, if one dies, its okay, no corruption, just world pvp. Things happens.
    (OP3) Player 1 just hit you to taunt and instigate a posible fight, just for lolz, you chat, all good, make party, farm together

    I think that is a very good system, that adds to the inmersion and gameplay styles. Yes, there are people that only want PVE and instanced PVP. but that is no fun man. I remember being in a party Lineage2 in a high level zone, and we had to fight to defend the spot. We managed to farm it for like.. 2 hours and that was enough to get what we wanted that day from that area. It keeps you on your toes. And when soloing, it gives you the chance to either ask nicely to another dude to leave, or smash is head in and try to grind the corruption with the adrenaline that in any moment you can be ganked and could lose some gear for that " anger management " that lead you to kill another guy that was stealing your spot.

    Have a great day !

    Ulf

    FOeRqtf.jpg
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    BlackBrony wrote: »

    NO, just NO.
    The systemworked pretty well in Lineage2.
    The game is OPEN WORLD PvP and systems are in place to avoid griefing.
    If you want to farm and be safe, re-evaluate your expectations about this game.
    Steven said it several times "this game is not for everyone".

    If you can switch your PvP flag, there's no point in Open World PvP, all the risk is gone. You're not playing Ashes of Creation, it's just a completely different game.

    You really need to read about the game and how it works and think what Open World PvP does for the game.

    LoL read my words! I am VERY pvp focused, just click on my name and see my comments and my thread, but you have to be open to the others and the entire point of a forum is to discuss not put others down. We are the community, we are the voices and we need to discuss and find a middle ground.

    As per your statement about the game is clearly pvp based, yea I know. I was just trying to say that we can't ignore the concerns of those who do not want any pvp. The game might not ever cater to them which suits me just fine but you can't just ignore their concerns.
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    Lazyactor wrote: »
    "but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp."

    then by definition it is not unwilling participation in pvp. Cause you choose it. I blame WOW for this mentality. That game just let players torture each other in pvp with no check and no balances and now because of that we have hoards of scarred people who think PvP and have flashbacks of getting corpse camped for 6 hours. They think that is PvP. They think that is open world PvP. They think that is what PvP players want in every game.

    I know, they see you type anything positive about pvp and they instantly want to crap all over it. The only reason I brought it up was that in a forum discussion it is unfair to ignore the worries of people and to discuss out their worries with suggestions or facts to ease their worries or assist in making them more knowledgeable. I have an entire thread dedicated to discussing introducing more way a player can act out pvp form the aspect of a good guy vs a bad guy, so trust me I am no anti pvp, I just wanted to play devils advocated for that one person.
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    edited August 2
    Ulf wrote: »
    If you guys ever played Lineage2 you'd have a better understading of how the system worked( is not exactly the same but it's... 80% the same )The good thing about it, is that it increased the drop chance for a corrupted character iE: If a guy wants to kick you out of his spot, i has to think about the sweet weapon/gear that he has on, because if you are red, you drop like a f***n piñata.

    The ting goes likes this.. you have two players, farming in a spot, one wants to kick the other out. Normally your nametag is white so: player 1 attacks player 2 -> player 1 acquires purple nametag ( flag status ). Player 2 has three options.
    (OP1)Remain white and only drop a small amount of hunting certs ( or farming goods ) upon death ( like if you died because a monster killed you ). But the player that kills you becomes red and vulnerable to hunting parties / you coming back for his soul ( remember: corrupted( red ) = more loot drop on death.
    (OP2) Player 2 hits back to defend his spot, acquires purple nametag and both players fight for an honourable pvp for the spot, if one dies, its okay, no corruption, just world pvp. Things happens.
    (OP3) Player 1 just hit you to taunt and instigate a posible fight, just for lolz, you chat, all good, make party, farm together

    I think that is a very good system, that adds to the inmersion and gameplay styles. Yes, there are people that only want PVE and instanced PVP. but that is no fun man. I remember being in a party Lineage2 in a high level zone, and we had to fight to defend the spot. We managed to farm it for like.. 2 hours and that was enough to get what we wanted that day from that area. It keeps you on your toes. And when soloing, it gives you the chance to either ask nicely to another dude to leave, or smash is head in and try to grind the corruption with the adrenaline that in any moment you can be ganked and could lose some gear for that " anger management " that lead you to kill another guy that was stealing your spot.

    Have a great day !

    Ulf

    I remember those days as much as I remember other games like Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, WoW, Warhammer Online, Blade and Soul, EVE, etc... Each game has its twist on pvp. If I had to pick my favorite it was Ultima Online, the rules were if you killed a blue then you became red. Red players can't go into towns and guards can be called against them to basically instakill them if you entered a protected zone. you would think that nobody wanted to be instakilled and be locked out of towns where you can get things you need and hang out and goto a bank to store your goods right? WRONG! They had epic battles between reds and blues, blues grouped up to go farming in areas they knew reds patrolled and vice-versa. It was fun being a red and fun being a blue. People complained a little so they split severs into a version that had no pvp flagging which made them happy and that was that. I lost so many good things but I looted some as well. You live and learn and you grow with those battle scars.

    The biggest difference in games now days is the loot. The games have changed, the loot has changed. People expect hard to find ultra-rare items with the best min max stats and to lose items like that would maybe make some people kill themselves irl sadly. If games had base level items with cosmetic twists and maybe just different stat tiers vs the overwhelming pile of loot to be farmed tier after tier, set after set then maybe we could have these good ole days of real true pvp, but until then we gotta have systems and balancing and battlegrounds and all this watered down bs just to make the game as massively appealing to everyone so the devs can have a game they like making and making money to live off of and the players have a game they enjoy as much as the largest number of people can be happy playing. There is no world for hardcore gamers in pve or pvp, too many casual players will complain and hate games for being too hard in pvp or pve, such is modern gaming and such is modern life. It is the exposure that makes games great and that cause their downfall. One thing you can say about Warcraft is that is has lasted because they manage to piss just enough people off in one expansion while making enough happy and then switch them around in the next expansion to keep everything just enough happy and mad to keep playing because they have nice rounded edges of likeability and dislikability.
  • SSRogue wrote: »
    Lazyactor wrote: »
    "but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp."

    then by definition it is not unwilling participation in pvp. Cause you choose it. I blame WOW for this mentality. That game just let players torture each other in pvp with no check and no balances and now because of that we have hoards of scarred people who think PvP and have flashbacks of getting corpse camped for 6 hours. They think that is PvP. They think that is open world PvP. They think that is what PvP players want in every game.

    I know, they see you type anything positive about pvp and they instantly want to crap all over it. The only reason I brought it up was that in a forum discussion it is unfair to ignore the worries of people and to discuss out their worries with suggestions or facts to ease their worries or assist in making them more knowledgeable. I have an entire thread dedicated to discussing introducing more way a player can act out pvp form the aspect of a good guy vs a bad guy, so trust me I am no anti pvp, I just wanted to play devils advocated for that one person.

    But the thing is that worries are ok, you explain them how it works. But things won't change.
    At least not the Open World PvP.

    You will NOT be allowed to ignore PvP, it doesn't matter what you feel or think is best for the game, it's a straight hard no.
    You will get ganked, and your choice will be either fight back or not.
    There's no switch to turn that off, and that's what makes the game interesting.

    The corruption system will take care of griefers. Does it need testing? Sure, that's why we have alpha and people will test it to avoid loopholes and abusing it.

    I don't mind explaining thing, but just making sure that it's not a game where you farm and ignore everyone else.

    There's going to be HUGE fights for those farming spots.

  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    edited August 2
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    just making sure that it's not a game where you farm and ignore everyone else.

    There's going to be HUGE fights for those farming spots.

    I 100% agree BUT if enough people dislike it and they cannot find a way to balance those complaining vs those happy with the systems as is then things will change and something like a war mode will come around because a switch on and off is the easiest way to make them happy. I still do not agree with it, I would rather have a pve server, a pvp server and a normal server if it came to that because it's unfair to those of us playing the pvp phase having to deal with potentially fast geared people not dealing with potential pvp while they quest. That being said I think the game is fair as it is and if anything I am arguing over on my thread for more things involving pvp.

    OR

    Nothing changes and a game director stands behind their decision and says "This is our game, we want it this way, you do not have to play it" and wow, I don't think anyone has the balls. I will say that this game has enough systems and mechanics to let people find their little groups and comfort zones and stay out of others' ways and most likely won't become a big problem once it completely tested and polished and you allow some time for tweaks.
  • SSRogue wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    just making sure that it's not a game where you farm and ignore everyone else.

    There's going to be HUGE fights for those farming spots.

    I 100% agree BUT if enough people dislike it and they cannot find a way to balance those complaining vs those happy with the systems as is then things will change and something like a war mode will come around because a switch on and off is the easiest way to make them happy. I still do not agree with it, I would rather have a pve server, a pvp server and a normal server if it came to that because it's unfair to those of us playing the pvp phase having to deal with potentially fast geared people not dealing with potential pvp while they quest. That being said I think the game is fair as it is and if anything I am arguing over on my thread for more things involving pvp.

    OR

    Nothing changes and a game director stands behind their decision and says "This is our game, we want it this way, you do not have to play it" and wow, I don't think anyone has the balls. I will say that this game has enough systems and mechanics to let people find their little groups and comfort zones and stay out of others' ways and most likely won't become a big problem once it completely tested and polished and you allow some time for tweaks.

    Steven, and IS, are making a game he would play, not a game that everyone would play. There's a clear difference. It doesn't matter how many tell him that they want a switch to enable/disable PvP, that shouldn't happen.
    It's what people backing the game expect, and it's the reason that many are hyped about this game.

    Games are not for everyone, this should be a given. PvP is at the core of the game, and there are many reason it's there: to create fiction, which sprawl wars and content created by the community.

    I don't think the devs should balance " those complaining vs those happy with the systems as is", because Open World PvP is a given. It's like a core fundamental value of AoC.

    The fact that the game is in development changes nothing regarding certain aspects of the game. In my opinion those won't and shouldn't change.
    We're not talking about tweaking the corruption system, multiboxing, or addons, we're talking about the foundations on where the game is standing.
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    The fact that the game is in development changes nothing regarding certain aspects of the game. In my opinion those won't and shouldn't change.
    We're not talking about tweaking the corruption system, multiboxing, or addons, we're talking about the foundations on where the game is standing.

    We are on the same page but if I must play devil's advocate then I will for the people who have other side of the coin views. I, however, agree that this game is awesome as is and if anything I want more ways for balanced bad guy things
  • jubilumjubilum Member, Pioneer
    Khana wrote: »
    jubilum wrote: »
    Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.
    Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

    If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

    That is incorrect, I will participate enthusiastically in all meaningful, consensual pvp. I will be involved in the planning and execution of pvp events.

    Maybe some clarification is needed. I guess I am not against open world pvp in general. If everyone was on the same page with in purpose and intent for the need for this type of function. My problem is with type of people the mechanic attracts. If it was just one or two per server I could even deal with that. It's the groups (15-100 players) of "criminals" that show up with the sole purpose to harvest tears and destroy the community. These groups have caused me to leave several games even though I am a pvp'er.

    And I really don't like saying this but the ONLY way to stop these people from showing up is to not allow open world/non-consensual pvp. Our a GM on each server with the will and ability to ban them as soon as they spawn in the world, but from my experience a company with the goal of making money will not do this.
  • ogreogre Member, Braver of Worlds
    jubilum wrote: »
    It's the groups (15-100 players) of "criminals" that show up with the sole purpose to harvest tears and destroy the community. These groups have caused me to leave several games even though I am a pvp'er.

    It will be very intesting to see how Intrepid decides to handle situations like this. Theoretically a guild with a large enough number of NA and EU players could have exclusive control of a large swathe of in-game land 24/7 if they desired.
  • I am not entirely sure how it is going to work as there are multiple ways. I'm not sure if you are going to have to manually activate a state of some kind before you attack. How they worded it, it does not sound like it is going to work this way. It sounds more like that you are just going to be able to attack them and the state flags will just happen automatically.

    I'm not sure but that's how I think it'll work.
    1UL8RIb.gif
  • jubilum wrote: »
    Khana wrote: »
    jubilum wrote: »
    Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.
    Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

    If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

    That is incorrect, I will participate enthusiastically in all meaningful, consensual pvp. I will be involved in the planning and execution of pvp events.

    Maybe some clarification is needed. I guess I am not against open world pvp in general. If everyone was on the same page with in purpose and intent for the need for this type of function. My problem is with type of people the mechanic attracts. If it was just one or two per server I could even deal with that. It's the groups (15-100 players) of "criminals" that show up with the sole purpose to harvest tears and destroy the community. These groups have caused me to leave several games even though I am a pvp'er.

    And I really don't like saying this but the ONLY way to stop these people from showing up is to not allow open world/non-consensual pvp. Our a GM on each server with the will and ability to ban them as soon as they spawn in the world, but from my experience a company with the goal of making money will not do this.

    I don't think that's the case. We have a max of 10k people on the server. 4-5 divine gates, which means around 2.5 players active around each gate.
    And corruption. Corruption is there to limit those "criminals".
    I have no other ways to explain it. When you have no fast travel each death matter. Even if you play 24*7, there's a "boring" side to having to go back to the same place you just where.
    Once you get corrupted, you will get even more corruption if non combatant players chase you.
    If a guild is dedicated to being corrupted, it will cost a lot of resources because of the dropped gear. It's not an easy task, time consuming and unless you have a very clear goal, it's pointless.
    People PK because there no consequences in almost all the games.
    If becoming corrupted means you also will lose time, people reconsider.

    Please tell me of a mmo where camping a corpse or just killing the same player again and again has a negative consequence on your character?
  • jubilum wrote: »
    Khana wrote: »
    jubilum wrote: »
    Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.
    Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

    If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

    That is incorrect, I will participate enthusiastically in all meaningful, consensual pvp. I will be involved in the planning and execution of pvp events.

    Maybe some clarification is needed. I guess I am not against open world pvp in general. If everyone was on the same page with in purpose and intent for the need for this type of function. My problem is with type of people the mechanic attracts. If it was just one or two per server I could even deal with that. It's the groups (15-100 players) of "criminals" that show up with the sole purpose to harvest tears and destroy the community. These groups have caused me to leave several games even though I am a pvp'er.

    And I really don't like saying this but the ONLY way to stop these people from showing up is to not allow open world/non-consensual pvp. Our a GM on each server with the will and ability to ban them as soon as they spawn in the world, but from my experience a company with the goal of making money will not do this.

    You are not a PvPer then. Because instead of feeling dread at the approaching hoard you should be feeling excitement. These losers are coming to pick a fight with us, lets fuckem up. See that is the difference between whatever you are and a PvPer. It does not matter if you try and gank me, ambush me, bring more numbers, attack five mins before server restart. If you want a piece of me and mine come get it. If you gank me I will crush you. Ambush me, I already expected that. Outnumber me? Bitch meet my guild. Attack before restart? Be thankful it saved you. This is the mentality of the PvPer. To seek out strong and skilled players and test myself against them. To win.

    That all being said. If you make a character in a game that has open world PvP, even one as restrictive as AoC then you have consented to PvP. It is meaningful and we will partake in it enthusiastically. There are mechanics to restrict behavior no one wishes to see. Griefing lowbies and what not. Killing you for a dungeon and wiping your entire group is fair play. Riding by and taking your hard earned resources is fair play. Losing a piece of gear because you went to far into the corrupted state might suck but turn about is fair play.

    The groups you speak of, the "criminal" type players do not seek you out to ruin your fun. They seek out people to pillage, to gain victory over. I promise you that randoms who have never seen you before attack you in game because they want to harvest your tears or destroy the community. They want to have fun. That is how they define it. Nothing stopping you or anyone else from grouping up and ruining their fun is there? There are systems in place to support every type of play style in the game. That is the job of a dev team trying to make a good game. Making sure all the tools you need are available. If players appear with the sole intent of wanton murder and that inconveniences you then solve the problem yourself. Not the devs job to hold our hands in a sandpark experience.
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    jubilum wrote: »

    That is incorrect, I will participate enthusiastically in all meaningful, consensual pvp. I will be involved in the planning and execution of pvp events.

    You can't say it is incorrect, more so that you just disagree. You can't speak in such definitives when there are so many people involved in the making and playing of a game, you can't simply understand where everyone is coming from and speak for them all.

    But I do understand what you are saying and I do personally agree.
    jubilum wrote: »
    It's the groups (15-100 players) of "criminals" that show up with the sole purpose to harvest tears and destroy the community. These groups have caused me to leave several games even though I am a pvp'er.

    And I really don't like saying this but the ONLY way to stop these people from showing up is to not allow open world/non-consensual pvp. Our a GM on each server with the will and ability to ban them as soon as they spawn in the world, but from my experience a company with the goal of making money will not do this.

    Sadly if a game allows pvp then there will always be ways to exploit it even after 10 years on the market like WoW where people have basically been testing the game throughout every stage of it growing the game still gets abused and fixed constantly. This game has a good foundation and has some good minds behind it, we will see how it works and I have a feeling the game devs core beliefs in this game will find ways to keep their intentions pure to them but reflect a community need. I personally hope they don't nurf non large scale pvp pvp too much. The guild and city war stuff is nice but small scale fights are daily things and I enjoy them from both sides having a good guy character and a bad guy character. I have faith in Steven, and more importantly I kinda unironically have faith in the community at large.
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    ogre wrote: »
    jubilum wrote: »
    It's the groups (15-100 players) of "criminals" that show up with the sole purpose to harvest tears and destroy the community. These groups have caused me to leave several games even though I am a pvp'er.

    It will be very intesting to see how Intrepid decides to handle situations like this. Theoretically a guild with a large enough number of NA and EU players could have exclusive control of a large swathe of in-game land 24/7 if they desired.

    EVE already deals with this but new larger groups always come up from the cracks and big guilds always fall because of infighting, espionage, greed, and betrayal. Plus this system does have term limits on higher rank positions and other guilds can work together per in-game systems and team up to destroy a node and start mone somewhere else.
  • SSRogueSSRogue Member
    edited August 2
    Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    I am not entirely sure how it is going to work as there are multiple ways. I'm not sure if you are going to have to manually activate a state of some kind before you attack. How they worded it, it does not sound like it is going to work this way. It sounds more like that you are just going to be able to attack them and the state flags will just happen automatically.

    I'm not sure but that's how I think it'll work.

    I think whatever version launches with the game day 1 will be as good as it can be for at least 2 to 3 years while they work on a prescheduled release calendar. Than eventually big overhauls on what would then be launch systems can and will most likely happen.
  • ogreogre Member, Braver of Worlds
    Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    How they worded it, it does not sound like it is going to work this way. It sounds more like that you are just going to be able to attack them and the state flags will just happen automatically.

    I'm not sure but that's how I think it'll work.

    Yep that's currently how it works, the corruption system seems like it should work well though. The info on the wiki states that you may have the chance to choose to participate in certain pvp events via a choice made through the UI, the example given was choosing to "Attack", "Defend", or "Ignore" a caravan. Cirno!
  • jubilumjubilum Member, Pioneer
    Lazyactor wrote: »
    jubilum wrote: »
    Khana wrote: »
    jubilum wrote: »
    Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.
    Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

    If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

    That is incorrect, I will participate enthusiastically in all meaningful, consensual pvp. I will be involved in the planning and execution of pvp events.

    Maybe some clarification is needed. I guess I am not against open world pvp in general. If everyone was on the same page with in purpose and intent for the need for this type of function. My problem is with type of people the mechanic attracts. If it was just one or two per server I could even deal with that. It's the groups (15-100 players) of "criminals" that show up with the sole purpose to harvest tears and destroy the community. These groups have caused me to leave several games even though I am a pvp'er.

    And I really don't like saying this but the ONLY way to stop these people from showing up is to not allow open world/non-consensual pvp. Our a GM on each server with the will and ability to ban them as soon as they spawn in the world, but from my experience a company with the goal of making money will not do this.

    You are not a PvPer then. Because instead of feeling dread at the approaching hoard you should be feeling excitement. These losers are coming to pick a fight with us, lets fuckem up. See that is the difference between whatever you are and a PvPer. It does not matter if you try and gank me, ambush me, bring more numbers, attack five mins before server restart. If you want a piece of me and mine come get it. If you gank me I will crush you. Ambush me, I already expected that. Outnumber me? Bitch meet my guild. Attack before restart? Be thankful it saved you. This is the mentality of the PvPer. To seek out strong and skilled players and test myself against them. To win.

    That all being said. If you make a character in a game that has open world PvP, even one as restrictive as AoC then you have consented to PvP. It is meaningful and we will partake in it enthusiastically. There are mechanics to restrict behavior no one wishes to see. Griefing lowbies and what not. Killing you for a dungeon and wiping your entire group is fair play. Riding by and taking your hard earned resources is fair play. Losing a piece of gear because you went to far into the corrupted state might suck but turn about is fair play.

    The groups you speak of, the "criminal" type players do not seek you out to ruin your fun. They seek out people to pillage, to gain victory over. I promise you that randoms who have never seen you before attack you in game because they want to harvest your tears or destroy the community. They want to have fun. That is how they define it. Nothing stopping you or anyone else from grouping up and ruining their fun is there? There are systems in place to support every type of play style in the game. That is the job of a dev team trying to make a good game. Making sure all the tools you need are available. If players appear with the sole intent of wanton murder and that inconveniences you then solve the problem yourself. Not the devs job to hold our hands in a sandpark experience.

    You had to know I was not going to agree with your definition of pvp, nor are you going to agree with mine. To me it is simple two players using their skill and abilities to determine a winner. It ceases being pvp and only p when one p does not desire to participate in such a contest. At that point it becomes something entirely different, I will refrain from giving it name in this instance even though we all know what it is. It is kind of like saying you are playing tennis when hitting the ball against a wall, or boxing when punching a heavy bag. With that said the rest of your argument falls apart quickly.

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