Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
If numbers speak for themself, then numbers speak for themself.
If WoW is the beat because of numbers, McDonalfs is the best because of numbers.
If you actually believe this, then I can see why you wouldn't want a tracker.
It's a shame you keep making baseless accusations without understanding the topic at hand.
People body-block one another and there might be Line of Sight blocking (should be). Friendly Fire should be a reality.
So a lot of Raids are still ~40 no matter what. Depending on the design. Of course you can meatground 260 people into the Boss then win with the remainder, and that would be easier.
The more tactical positions the enemy can use, such as chokepoints with AoE defensive siege weaponry, the more AoE they have, and if Friendly Fire is a reality. . . 300 can be a problem unless they're quite competently organized and disciplined.
In fact the raids could be designed to be completed over multiple days. Controlled cave-ins so your miners have to work for a long time, gated steel doors you have to slowly breakdown while they fire ballistas and drop hot oil on your group then set yall on fire, Dragons that fly out of the cave when it reaches 70% health and just destroys your node (LOL). . . . .. it could require a lot of time and organization to 'Raid'.
If at the same time undefended nodes are sieged by opportunistic 'factions'/NPCs/NPC groups and there's Node vs Node incentivized, the 300 person raid will not be so popular.
I hope there's a siege on each Node daily or semi-daily. Even NPC groups moving in and harvesting everything, destroying some periphery buildings and demolitioning roads would be better than nothing but not enough.
I can see there being NPCs and NPC groups that will inform Nodes of there being a raid and no one defending a nearby Node simply because they're from that area and want the Node there destroyed so they can expand.
IMPORTANT: When you have the PvE attacking Nodes all over one can assume it's balanced for a very high population already. This is a solution in and of itself.
These balancing concerns are exactly why I make the sort of threads I do.
Windows, tab target, rotations. I mean it's just slim combat.
Execution isn't high until you factor in the occassional mechanic and that just requires a reaction time under .3 seconds if you're optimizing, and some baseline knowledge or quick thinking if it's unexpected. Beyond that there's not much else.
I theorycraft plenty but it's boring because the combat is boring.
If the combat required more execution than windows and meters, they wouldn't be a significant topic in the first place; there's just not much else to focus on for some people LMAO
I hope people start talking about weapon combos and enemy mechanics and AI more. I hope people start cherry picking really well done AI, combat, movement, et cetera and there's more focus on that. THAT is a direction that will make a good and fun game.
Ace1234 is right to try and draw from Fighting games. It's just too little and without literal application ideas. If no one has a clue what's good what isn't, have no thought in their head of what good action combat could be; then there is no good feedback to the Devs. Even Tab combat can evolve.
@akabear
lmao
Why do you want an MMO? Why do you not like Overwatch or some other game, where you generally get a Score Screen that tells you everyone's Damage, Kills, Deaths, et cetera after?
Genuine Question. Might help illucidate some things.
Simple math will tell you that must be the case. 5k posts in this thread, I have posted over 10k on the forums in total, if every post in this thread was me, it still wouldn't make up the majority of my posts.
It isnt uncommon for me to just go about daily life, come back to the forums and see 30+ new posts in this thread.
It's happened twice over the last few days.
While there are indeed a few people that have posted the bulk of posts in this thread, there are literally dozens of people that have jumped in, said their piece and left (occasionally coming back in to answer some questions, but not always).
A lot of what you are talking about here may well be fine, but not for Ashes.
Friendly fire wont be a thing in Ashes. You have to force target any player to be able to attack them.
Raids lasting multiple days aren't likely to be a thing, that would be an event, not a raid - it is a different type of content. Both are viable to have in a game.
Nodes wont be sieges daily. Sieging a node will take time, organization and money (in game, not real money). You need to declare a siege on a node before hands and in the case of larger nodes, you need to declare a siege 5 days before the siege even happens. Then, if a siege fails, there is a period of time before a siege can be declared again. On those same larger nodes, that is 50 days.
This means that at absolute most, top level node can be sieged once every 55 days.
Basically, you are talking about ideas in regards to the game, but without the base understanding of what the game is so far. You are essentially talking about another game.
but i will wait for you to first answer the simple question i asked to you...
Also, your ideas are not bad for a game, or bad for a mmorpg, but a MMORPG is not another MMORPG, and each have its own base philosophy and design, your ideas could be great in other games, and i would enjoy it, but for ashes, it is just out of place and would lead to a failure... A good game is a subtil alchemy, or a cooking recipe, you have to use the good ingredients, in good proportions, at the good time to have a succulent result. But taking all wonderfull taste of the world to mix them in a single recipe would lead to... a failure. There is not one perfect game design, one perfect MMORPG, but many way to do them... and just have to try to get the puzzle as coherent as possible, and avoid the patchwerk of ideas...
I prefer PvE to PvP (like both but still prefer one) ... raid spread on days without teleport (so character evolving) and a node vs IA i would love it. Really. This could make me return to hardcore PvE endgame...
Why i don't defend your idea there so ? because it wouldn't fit at all inside ashes of creation.
(the "raid along days" would not really be "a raid" but more an event, you engage your guild in with marvellous reward in the end, but high preparation, logistic etc before)
You're full of it. Just tune the difficulty. Any idea can be tuned.
Who characterizes a cohesive and living world as a patchwork lmao.
Just say you think the Dev team can't manage it lol.
Every time you get a legitimate answer you have nothing to say to it. Just be honest for once.
on the RTS history, two are part of the appearance of esport, like CS, quake and other game, it is players who created esport around them; not developers...
those two comes from a same developer
War3 and SC : they have different system, rules, mechanics. different ideas. to for a coherent game.
I was a big RTS player, loved AoE2 but also war3 AND SC (and then SC2 which is similar to SC)
Blizzard totally made 2 different great game there, but taking all good ideas from both to mix them in one game would make it a patchwerk without sense...
A coherent game is not just adding lot of good ideas, it is be sure to have them interact well, and see how it will impact players gameplay... and if it fits the game aim...
Just one thing on those idea i say i like but i won't defend on Ashes of Creation... I don't fear dev to not be able to balance it... but the simple explanation about why i love it also explain why i think it won't fit in ashes of creation... I love it as PvE boy... It would totally push the game far deeper on PvE side... This game aim for PvX... so a well delicate balance between PvE and PvP...
My thought is from years of gaming, good and bad games,
Good games with lot of bad ideas, and bad game with lot of good ideas. (and bad with only bad shits, or good with mostly good things)
if creating a good game was simply "just take lot of good ideas, balance them well, build a coherent world, and here you go" ... we would have lot more top tier game... if this miracle recipe you try to sell was really so miracle, it would already be in use...
Warcraft, Starcraft, and Starcraft 2 are all successes though, while being basically similar games. So I don't see any connection between your words and reality.
A game requires good execution but your fear of a 'patchwork' game is really a lack of trust/ faith in developers lmao.
I guess we're in the same boat in that case. But I don't see anyone even trying to design something better? Most anything can simply be written down and be part of a design document, with painfully precise details. Image reference, video reference included too.
I understand what a patchwork is but the only specific issue I see you have is the PvX one.
I think any scarcity of resources where gatherables and processed goods are Necessary, will encourage PvP. At the very least it encourages Mercenaries and Trade along with the Crime that entails lol.
A lack of pressure from PvE actually decreases the need for PvP. Unless you think getting bored of PvE and messing around in PvP is peak game design?
Hopefully repairs are not commonly available due to the unviability of repairing something degraded rather than scrapping it (such as in a Smelter) or limited such as with limited Leather patches one can apply to something before you just need a new complete hide. Leather scraps can still be used for Leather widgets I guess. Or used on the liner of something that doesn't take much damage at all.
So what I hope is in the game is a bit more strategy. I am guessing that is why you mention strategy games.
As for a more direct way of encouraging PvP: XP on Use.
PvP usually exists from a lack of fun. If PvE is fun and engaging, PvP needs more incentive to exist or the players need to grow hungrier for War. lol.
At the very least PvPers can progress through XP on Use rather than the current system that is basically PvE with a small side salad of PvP.
I want legitimate PvX and better PvE that isn't a bore.
XP on Use with a bonus in PvP -> Incentive. Less XP on Kill -> incentive to fight and be territorial rather than kill, if that's important at all to you.
Instead PvP could be incentivized more with extra XP on kill as well though; would you prefer that?
Reverse ratio on PvE stuff -> Incentive to kill PvE.
So what issues do you have with this?
If you didnt play them more than the campaign, you could consider being similar game, two RTS... because it is where the "similar games" stop.
But i invite you to read again your messages in fact...
your last one just understand my complain about an idea of yours, so you get another idea of yours to then say "with those, the problem you fear is no more"
ok but ... when you accumulate your ideas, sure it could be a good game, i never denied it... "so why not support them" ...
Because at this point, you are just keeping the node idea from ashes of creation, change the class design (transform sumoner into vampire, the fighter being a smashing button class...) , change the PvE design, the PvP design, the character management design (with the exhaustion, and backpack, leading to a change to the farm design). You also change part of the gameplay feelings with your first person as default view. And add a gameover on servers... At one point, after changing all this, the original project that was Ashes of Creation would still be "ashes of creation" or... another MMORPG project ?
You come here, to say "ok, this game could be great, but we have to change nearly all in it" ...
And you don't understand why most people laugh of you ? really ?
So hypocritical. If you had taken your own advice you would have just admitted you were wrong long ago, but you always derail the convo when you are backed into a corner.
I played SC2 and got to Plat 1 in 3 months of serious playing 4 years ago. I owned SC2 since maybe 2010 but didn't do much ladder. I just got good with Zerg and started going 50/50 vs low diamonds after 3 months, then quit.
I played the entire Starcraft and Broodwar campaign and have looked somewhat deeply into at least SC2 competitive scene, but have seen Artosis play Starcraft and seen some pro highlights of Starcraft.
I have not played Warcraft 3 but I've seen some competitive matches, played a little Dota 2, and played a lot of League of Legends.
Yes they are all RTS and that makes them very similar. lol. Compare that to FPS and the difference is clear.
There are still significant differences but I don't see any connection to this topic.
Just exclaiming "it's different!" says nothing about whether a suggestion/ design/ idea is good or not lmao.
As for accumulating all of my suggestions: How about the 1 or 2 I'm talking about at any one time.
You even admit it "could be a good game" when all accumulated together, so your anxieties have even less merit. . .
If every suggestion recieves resistance with no willingness to simply say "yes that idea or few ideas together are good/ bad" because of some anxiety that all of the ideas will suddenly coalesce into a monster and take over Sharif's brain. . . then why the hell is there a forum.
Are you so resistant because it sounds good enough that devs will pick it up?
The Summoner -> Vampire idea was for Sub-Tank. You just read the headline I guess. It could be better suited to another sub-class.
Fighter smashing a button is not strange and isn't a fundamental game changer lmao it's still an MMO with classes.
Anyone can make suggestions for PvE or PvP. What are your actual issues with them though.
Exhaustion and many mechanic suggestions I have are for balancing the game and adding depth & texture. The other stuff in this list don't even rely on Exhaustion or whatever to work very well.
You can forget about the first person stuff. The limited field of view gives people anxiety and there are other things to discuss.
tl;dr I have my reasons.
It has its legitimate use. I even gave suggestions for how a broader field of view would work, that feels more organic. A programmer could playtest it but I'm not a programmer.
The game over stuff is also something you can leave out since it is causing people anxiety or whatever and there are other things to discuss.
I don't think people are laughing I think they're anxious.
People don't have much to say about individual ideas once discussion begins and you make useless arguments for something that isn't a problem or is a solution for a non-problem and shuts out other game design choices that have merit and are impactful to the enjoyment of a game.
HOSTILE ARCHITECTURE
You should redo the assignment btw. You got a D-.
Lmao- the merit comes through the ability for the design mechanic to provide its an intended design goal- with the "goal" often being something subjectively "fun". In this case we are arguing on how this particular mechanic affects the ability to accomplish said goal. You have no grounds for determining something's "merit", unless we have the same goal in mind, in which case it seemed like we did, so an objective argument can be made from that standpoint to determine the merit of said mechanics- in which case I blew you out of the water.
So yes the problem of accomplishing said goal does exist and the argument does indeed have merit- the only thing that doesn't have merit is your pathetic responses to the topic at hand
You should redo the whole converstion- you got an F
Right. You always think someone is talking about what you're talking about and nothing else. So you can 'blow them out of the water' instead of it being about communication.
All your vain attempts to hide your true motivations didn't work. Transparent.
As if all you can see is what you want to talk about --> nope! You see everything else you just don't want to talk about anything but what you feel you can 'win' in an argument.
Transparent.
But while you consider "there is one way to have a good game"
i consider "there are many way to have a good game"
Your idea is one of those many way
Steven Sharif's idea, the current AoC project, is another way
This is what, strangely, you seems to not be able to understand.
Not because your idea could make a good game this is the only way to go...
build a project, open a forum around it, gather people, do a crowdfunding...
Oh yes, easier to try to change the project of another to fit your own egoistic preferences. try to convert it to your own personal taste...
The problem with that deflection attempt, is that you intially responed to me, so the burden is on you to conform to what you were responding too- not bait me into an argument about something I wasn't initially talking about.
What are you even talking about? Arcane procedure? I'm referring to the way you talk about anything; your entire trend.
The more effort put into the game the better it will be. No AAA doesn't == more effort so don't jump to random conclusions.
So then more effort put into the parts of the game and the whole game the better game it will be.
And no, there is flexibility in this rule. People putting in 90% can still create a great game better than someone putting in 100% by 'working much smarter' in a sense.
So how about you say what your issue with XP on Use is.
All you've done is try and villify me without responding at all to the idea lmao
You said it affects PvX I gave my response to address that and now what is your response to that.
Projecting. If you were so interested in communicating you would actually know what my intentions are, but you don't, you never bother to find out through actually addressing the points and having a normal discussion. The only obstacle in the communication is the wrenches that you throw in to try to make someone else sound dumb rather than understand their perspective and come to a clear conclusion. In turn, you self-sabotage yourself because it just makes nobody interest in talking to you to bother to try to understand where you are coming from.
You do as you said youself
because you brought them up as a way to deflect having to actually address the points being made. If you truly dont care about them then address the points instead of thinking of ways to avoid doing so.
By taking the time to talk about it qualifies as caring. If the other person isnt interested in having a convo then I would choose to not care- so it is ultimately in your hands if want me to care so badly as you say.
XP on use : allow to lvl up with no risk = contrary to risk vs reward logic.
Also, Xp on use : never found it so fun and interesting, just a brainless spam being often more efficient than playing the game.
And i say that while one of my 3 favourite pen&paper RPG system is the system "basic" ... but i prefer the classic "level" system.
And for the smashing button : find one game where it is fun... they are called "versus fighting" ... a specific genre... (and even there, it is not really a brainless smashing as what you did defend... )
Oh yes i saw it elsewhere... horsetaming on BDO... yep... totally not interesting way to do...
But hey, see i try to respond to your close mind... while i still wait answers to my questions, you never answered to once...
"put more work on game, it will be better" sure... but ... your ideas are not about "more work on the game" but "transform the game project into another game project" ... Nothing about "more/less" work...
Lets return to this topic's subject now... you looooove to change convo right?
Your choices of "hostile architecture" design exist in other games... does it avoid people to gather datas ? no... people will try to gather it, thru datamine, doing 1000 5000 or more time the exact same thing to get the rates. accumulate lot and lot information to retro-engeneer.
And the funniest thing, you consider that such behaviour... "nerd" behaviour is bad for many reason including it is better to have people communicate... how blind you are thinking they don't communicate... 18 years in MMORPGs, and if there were a community i saw people communicate a lot... it was those one... far more than others. And it was for a simple reason : they had thing to say, informations to share, after spending time gathering them, helped with some tools...
I addressed them with the previous paragraph. Do you really not understand what someone is communicating to you?
For any topic I say several things and you don't see it as communication you see it as some Task handed to me to destroy you and if I fail to do so then I've failed.. the argument?
No one gives a shit about some arcane and arbitrary gamified discussion.
and no I'm not talking about 'caring' and don't open up the file in your brain with all your empathy exposition.
You just aren't good at communicating and have rigid responses and behavior, one of them being your 'argue mode'. That's all I was saying.
and im not calling you a robot
You are not trust worthy, the fact you are trying to say food is the same as a game is pretty stupid. As usual you are trying to manipulate information to suit you.
I could easily go over the logistics on the difference but I'm not going to do that for your terrible take. You won't view what anyone else will, or even attempt to think of a game without trackers being useful. All you will do is try to push trackers, your display picture is a meme btw.
I mean so what? Are you that sensitive that your social behavior gets reduced to insults and misrepresentation because you identified a "mode" someone entered, in your mind, or because you got triggered by a flaw they have?
Reacting that way is something that YOU'RE not good at, yet the difference is that despite that I still can have a normal conversation without immediately getting triggered and insulting you.
I get to the root of the topic so if that requires you having to reformulate your thoughts and wording to help me understand your intent, that is not "bad communication" on my part, its on you for expecting me to read your mind. If you want to explain something I will listen, as long as you listen to my explanation and be constructive and solution seeking. Thats all there is too it, its child level concepts.
Thats the point, you think you did but you actually took a lot of what I said out of context starting from your intial response and throughout the entire conversation. I mean talk about "bad at communication" you should be getting triggered by yourself not by me. I am willing to ask questions to see what someone is implying, you dont give the same courtesy once you unnessecarily hit your trigger point. You literally came out of the gate responding to me with your annoying remarks like "..get real/LOL/" and other non-productive communication methods like adding stuff I didnt even say or immediately taking stuff out of context and insulting without asking for clarification. How about you improve your communication first before asking someone else to respond to your bad faith attempts with good faith ones.
ok, we could go on movies so... with Jurassic world being better than jurassic park. most marvel movies better than the old star wars trilogy (or even the "prelogy") ... Or Avatar being the best movie of the history... while James Cameron himself admits the movie to be not so good.
Oh no, it is not needed, we will stay in video game in fact. because we can watch video game with video games based on their sales right ?
Fifa, which just change the roster each year, is a better franchise than AC so.
And what about nintendog being in front of halflife franchise ? maybe in fact people don't care HL3
And seeing thing this way, no more need to have debate about the best Final Fantasy... VI > IV > VII > XV (no one laugh about XV being the 4th best FF ! )
Oh, but i know, you will come and say that we can watch at numbers only between video games of the same genre... right ?
The funny thing, a simple way to take the crown from blizzard would probably just ... to see gamefreaks doing a mmorpg, We would see fast insane sales, enough to dwarf the current most sold MMORPG...
If you could, you would. You are so dsperate to prove me wrong, if you had anything to actually facilitate that with, you'd jump all over it. Literally any activity in the world can see people improve by the introduction of objective data, and tools to analyze that data.
Everything from baking a cake to marketing a business, to playing basketball, to designing a car, to reading a book. All of it can be improved via analysis of objective data.
In an MMO, that objective data is analyzed via a combat tracker.
Your assertion that an MMO could be the only activity in the world where this is not the case is just wrong. This is why you have made that assertion, but not backed it up with any reasoning or suggestions. You know it is a false assertion - you just spew it again and again in hopes that someone - anyone - will believe you.
I mean, if you gave me an example of an MMO where a tracker wouldn't be of value (note; of value to me, not of value in some limited manner that you wish to define) then I absolutely will believe you.
Unlike you, it would seem I am not going to make myself look like a fool by denying something placed right in front of my face. I would rather simply admit that I was wrong and explore this new thing that I hadn't considered.
Problem is, as I said, you cant place that idea in front of me, and if you could, you would.