Why do Ace1234 and Noaani want trackers? Probably botters makin' $$$ and lazy.
Your entire doctrine of how a way to measure your results affects gameplay is flawed, which leads you to this conclusion.
I come to this very conclusion for yourself advocating against a way of measuring precision feedback. We both want the same thing, you misunderstand that your way is what leads to what you don't want.
I also said several times I dont want to track enemy data, I only support tracking your own data for precision feedback.
Why do you think theorycrafting number crunching is good gameplay and everyone wants you to crack the code?
Literally anyone can copy your build lmao. Just see who is winning and copy them. Easy as that.
You simply don't want to play the game and just crunch numbers.
How about rewarding the Mage and the group that brings a Mage along when you need Magic Sense to tell what health % the stone golems are at.
You don't give 2 shits about a good game being made lmao. Get real
Make it easy for botters and anyone with the capacity to MAKE AN ALT to metagame. . . for easier botting, easier exploitation of weak dev design for your 'moment'. got it got it
Why do you think theorycrafting number crunching is good gameplay and everyone wants you to crack the code?
Literally anyone can copy your build lmao. Just see who is winning and copy them. Easy as that.
You simply don't want to play the game and just crunch numbers.
How about rewarding the Mage and the group that brings a Mage along when you need Magic Sense to tell what health % the stone golems are at.
You don't give 2 shits about a good game being made lmao. Get real
Thats so wrong on so many levels. I did explain why but you have yet to actually address my points instead of repeating yourself and saying "get real". How about you get real. You arent convincing in any way. I countered every point you said so far and you have countered 0 of mine. You are just throwing a tantrum and accusing me of being a botter, because you cant accept that I am winning the argument.
Why do you think theorycrafting number crunching is good gameplay and everyone wants you to crack the code?
Not everyone wants to, some people do and thats the point of having builds to begin with, to reward that skill. Your skills that you so desire to be rewarded is what the combat system is for. Stop trying to blurr the lines between what should be rewarded by which gameplay systems.
Its not "number crunching" you sound like a moron because I said like 7 different times that the system should be in-depth and complex enough that "number crunching" and trial and error should be way less efficient than being intelligent enough to theory craft good builds. You still have that "number crunching" approach no mattet what system you have because people will grind mobs until they figure out what their dps is, its just way more tedious than just giving you that info so you know if your build is good or not.
You don't give 2 shits about a good game being made lmao. Get real
I explained how it could improve gameplay for everyone involved if it is designed right. I think your way leads to worse gameplay so gEt ReAl
"stop blurring categories so I can't easily manipulate them with dumb arguments and simple analysis in-game, and instead have to just play the game and git gud without the nerdgachi"
yeah sure I won't worry about mmo mechanics in an mmo sure thing who cares about build or progression but number crunchers you're right I definitely want all those number crunchers in the game looking for exploits especially when devs are slow af to patch or tune anything you are SO RIGHT GUY. YOU MAKE SO MUCH SENSE.
lol
don't misrepresent me and you either.
lines not gonna blur there.
"stop blurring categories so I can't easily manipulate them with dumb arguments and simple analysis in-game, and instead have to just play the game and git gud without the nerdgachi"
Yea soo dumb.. yet you are avoidant of actually addressing but a single one of my agruments in its entirety. You have no reasonable argument to begin with other than insulting and accusations. You have offered nothing of value to the convo, so clearly you don't even know why you feel the way you do, just another subjective feeling based argument to be dismissed.
Yeah sure I won't worry about mmo mechanics in an mmo sure thing who cares about build or progression but number crunchers you're right I definitely want all those number crunchers in the game looking for exploits especially when devs are slow af to patch or tune anything you are SO RIGHT GUY. YOU MAKE SO MUCH SENSE.
There can be "number crunching" in any system, theory crafting and number crunching are 2 different things. I already stated simple number crunching should be discouraged over theory-crafting, which can happen in both yours and my ideas. Except that mine offers more reward to the actual theory crafters who enjoy that type of skill, which is the skill that is supposed to be rewarded by that particular game system to begin with.
No I dont want the gameplay to be "who can number crunch first then have stale gameplay because the hardest part is over and wr can all copy each other and not have fun". You are being a moron by acting like I advocate for that. I sant the exact opposite of that, but you fail to have any kind of reading comprehension to understand how I am saying it should work and why it would work even better at encouraging the type of gameplay both you and I want.
I am done talking about it if you have no intelligent response to the actual points that were made. If you want to troll then don't expect me to respect your opinion if you aren't even capable of supporting it yourself.
All I heard from that is "I just want to be the edgy boy who sounds like they are enlightened, so since you make too much sense I have to derail the convo before people realize I don't actually know what I am talking about"
Rhythm and Pacing is Biologically Impossible.
Victimhood.
Doesn't care what reality is.
Bots are OK
Wants to metagame as hard as possible to (they hope) trivialize the difficulty.
Does an entirely wrong recap of what I actual said for some attention, so he can show his mum how much of an edgelord he is on game forum in the hopes she gives him extra suck from her teet.
@Ace1234
next time you fight for or against a game design choice make sure it's actually good instead of based on your brain's library of useless exposition you generated playing other shit.
next time you fight for or against a game design choice make sure it's actually good instead of based on your brain's library of useless exposition you generated playing other shit.
Yea cuz rsther than addressing the merit of an idea lets use a logical fallacy to discredit it cuz you have no counter argument. Really impressive your so objective and smart.
I'm curious if you could actually convey what you want in a few points by misrepresenting me.
Can you?
This question doesn't even make sense, my god you can't even ask a basic question so how can I expect you to adress legitimate points that require some thought.
You mean you are too arrogant, elitist and egotistical to boil something down to a few points that respects other's time and energy and broaches communication?
@Sapiverenus
I have done that out of respect several times over, because unlike you I seek solutions and resolutions rather than to stir up drama and controversy. The only reason you need to "sum things up" is because you blatantly ignored every major argument I made and resorted to insults and accusations.
You have your "summed up points" in my intial arguments, and in my responses to your (and I use this very loosely) """counter-points"""" So reference them as you see fit or if you want further clarification or to actually address reasoning used then feel free to ask. Until then I am done with your lame trolling good night.
Do it by misrepresenting me. Show me how stupid I sound the way I did a recap for you
Show me what your points are by misrepresenting me. It's not difficult to comprehend what the task is.
installing random 3rd party software to obtain said logs
worrying more about optimizing my build/rotation instead of playing the game
players gatekeeping based on meta game information.
I'd like to very quickly go over this list in relation to a game having combat trackers.
Your first point - log files. The server will store a log of literally everything in the game, this is kind of necessary.
As to client side, even if Intrepid opted to fully support third party trackers, the game would only generate a log file for you if you commanded the client to do so. If you do not tell it to do so it will not generate that log file.
To your second point, if a player wants a log file, it should be in plain text, in a simple *.txt file. This means you would be able to open up the file and read through, should you want. The idea that a log file could be in anything other than plain text is somewhat foreign to me.
To your third point, this tends to be something people either concern themselves with, or dont concern themselves with. If you find you put time in to this in other games, you will put time in to it in Ashes as well - regardless of the state of trackers.
To your fourth point, players gatekeeper because they can, not because of data. If a player that is a bit of a dick is abke to gatekeep in a zone, why would not having any data suddenly stop that person from doing so?
But I also acknowledge that some people enjoy analyzing data, and I am fine with the top 1% playing that way. The reason I don't want IS to open the flood gates with a first party tracker (or explicitly allow 3rd party trackers) is because I believe that pushes more of the population into this weird state of thinking these trackers make them better players because their number is higher than the other guy's.
I dont see the presence of trackers increasing the number of people that analyze the game.
Comments
Your entire doctrine of how a way to measure your results affects gameplay is flawed, which leads you to this conclusion.
I come to this very conclusion for yourself advocating against a way of measuring precision feedback. We both want the same thing, you misunderstand that your way is what leads to what you don't want.
I also said several times I dont want to track enemy data, I only support tracking your own data for precision feedback.
Literally anyone can copy your build lmao. Just see who is winning and copy them. Easy as that.
You simply don't want to play the game and just crunch numbers.
How about rewarding the Mage and the group that brings a Mage along when you need Magic Sense to tell what health % the stone golems are at.
You don't give 2 shits about a good game being made lmao. Get real
Thats so wrong on so many levels. I did explain why but you have yet to actually address my points instead of repeating yourself and saying "get real". How about you get real. You arent convincing in any way. I countered every point you said so far and you have countered 0 of mine. You are just throwing a tantrum and accusing me of being a botter, because you cant accept that I am winning the argument.
keep countering. epic gamer style
With a dash of victimhood because a lack of numbers is punishment
Not everyone wants to, some people do and thats the point of having builds to begin with, to reward that skill. Your skills that you so desire to be rewarded is what the combat system is for. Stop trying to blurr the lines between what should be rewarded by which gameplay systems.
Its not "number crunching" you sound like a moron because I said like 7 different times that the system should be in-depth and complex enough that "number crunching" and trial and error should be way less efficient than being intelligent enough to theory craft good builds. You still have that "number crunching" approach no mattet what system you have because people will grind mobs until they figure out what their dps is, its just way more tedious than just giving you that info so you know if your build is good or not.
I explained how it could improve gameplay for everyone involved if it is designed right. I think your way leads to worse gameplay so gEt ReAl
yeah sure I won't worry about mmo mechanics in an mmo sure thing who cares about build or progression but number crunchers you're right I definitely want all those number crunchers in the game looking for exploits especially when devs are slow af to patch or tune anything you are SO RIGHT GUY. YOU MAKE SO MUCH SENSE.
lol
don't misrepresent me and you either.
lines not gonna blur there.
Yea soo dumb.. yet you are avoidant of actually addressing but a single one of my agruments in its entirety. You have no reasonable argument to begin with other than insulting and accusations. You have offered nothing of value to the convo, so clearly you don't even know why you feel the way you do, just another subjective feeling based argument to be dismissed.
There can be "number crunching" in any system, theory crafting and number crunching are 2 different things. I already stated simple number crunching should be discouraged over theory-crafting, which can happen in both yours and my ideas. Except that mine offers more reward to the actual theory crafters who enjoy that type of skill, which is the skill that is supposed to be rewarded by that particular game system to begin with.
No I dont want the gameplay to be "who can number crunch first then have stale gameplay because the hardest part is over and wr can all copy each other and not have fun". You are being a moron by acting like I advocate for that. I sant the exact opposite of that, but you fail to have any kind of reading comprehension to understand how I am saying it should work and why it would work even better at encouraging the type of gameplay both you and I want.
I am done talking about it if you have no intelligent response to the actual points that were made. If you want to troll then don't expect me to respect your opinion if you aren't even capable of supporting it yourself.
I'm a great communicator though. Deal with it.
All I heard from that is "I just want to be the edgy boy who sounds like they are enlightened, so since you make too much sense I have to derail the convo before people realize I don't actually know what I am talking about"
Yes it was number crunching. There were only 7 participants though. lol
Go back to pokemon
Rhythm and Pacing is Biologically Impossible.
Victimhood.
Doesn't care what reality is.
Bots are OK
Wants to metagame as hard as possible to (they hope) trivialize the difficulty.
Thank you for playing.
Having a spine is its own reward.
Recap of sappy boy
Does an entirely wrong recap of what I actual said for some attention, so he can show his mum how much of an edgelord he is on game forum in the hopes she gives him extra suck from her teet.
next time you fight for or against a game design choice make sure it's actually good instead of based on your brain's library of useless exposition you generated playing other shit.
I'm curious if you could actually convey what you want in a few points by misrepresenting me.
Can you?
edit. . .
or do you agree with everything I'm saying and can't for the life of you find what's wrong with anything I've said?
We're Hawai'an
island life
Yea cuz rsther than addressing the merit of an idea lets use a logical fallacy to discredit it cuz you have no counter argument. Really impressive your so objective and smart.
This question doesn't even make sense, my god you can't even ask a basic question so how can I expect you to adress legitimate points that require some thought.
Jesus no shit man!
maybe you're an mmo dev!
Or do you? And know you can't do it? Of course you can't do it.
How often do you tell these little lies to protect yourself?
I have done that out of respect several times over, because unlike you I seek solutions and resolutions rather than to stir up drama and controversy. The only reason you need to "sum things up" is because you blatantly ignored every major argument I made and resorted to insults and accusations.
You have your "summed up points" in my intial arguments, and in my responses to your (and I use this very loosely) """counter-points"""" So reference them as you see fit or if you want further clarification or to actually address reasoning used then feel free to ask. Until then I am done with your lame trolling good night.
Show me what your points are by misrepresenting me. It's not difficult to comprehend what the task is.
I'd like to very quickly go over this list in relation to a game having combat trackers.
Your first point - log files. The server will store a log of literally everything in the game, this is kind of necessary.
As to client side, even if Intrepid opted to fully support third party trackers, the game would only generate a log file for you if you commanded the client to do so. If you do not tell it to do so it will not generate that log file.
To your second point, if a player wants a log file, it should be in plain text, in a simple *.txt file. This means you would be able to open up the file and read through, should you want. The idea that a log file could be in anything other than plain text is somewhat foreign to me.
To your third point, this tends to be something people either concern themselves with, or dont concern themselves with. If you find you put time in to this in other games, you will put time in to it in Ashes as well - regardless of the state of trackers.
To your fourth point, players gatekeeper because they can, not because of data. If a player that is a bit of a dick is abke to gatekeep in a zone, why would not having any data suddenly stop that person from doing so?
I dont see the presence of trackers increasing the number of people that analyze the game.
I mean, Excel exists.
No, the entire point is "more information is good".
Thing is, we are both right. This is a preference thing.
If you want to play the game with limited info, I fully support you in that. You absolutely should be able to do so - if that is what you want.
However, those that want more info should also have the right to play the game their way.
I mean, in terms of info players have access to, it is literally a UI option.