@CaptnChuck i still thinks that is not enough, yes i did say "the solutions for the summon i think that it wouldn't be that much of a problem", and thinking about it for a little bit more you could ask someone to kill you for a price or simply attack them so that they dont gain corruption, also i think only enabling the system when you die more than once in a short time period you help preventing abuse.
Then I guess it'll work. I'll never use it, but if they catch streamers at level 1, and they constantly harass them, they should have the option to get the fuck out.
But I'm also of the mind that its the same regardless of the streamers level. And if he fucks out of a zone that has nearly all of his followers, then good bye to the followers. They'll either remake a new character, and spawn closer to the streamer, or fuck off his stream. (since we're talking low levels they too got nothing tying them to that node).
Just have the streamer use common sense, and establish his character before streaming, or create a secondary character for streaming, and primary for solo leveling. Streamers often have more characters.
It's a problem I feel that it can be fixed from the streamers side.
@CaptnChuck i still thinks that is not enough, yes i did say "the solutions for the summon i think that it wouldn't be that much of a problem", and thinking about it for a little bit more you could ask someone to kill you for a price or simply attack them so that they dont gain corruption, also i think only enabling the system when you die more than once in a short time period you help preventing abuse.
This too. You could also make it so that this option becomes available after dying 2 or 3 times in a row. I'll add this to my post.
Not true, once the streamer reaches a high enough level, players won't be able to mass grief him anymore. Only players that invested significant time into characters will be able to kill the streamer, which won't be a lot. But if they do do that, then it poses a huge risk to their character because of the corruption system. Higher level players will not want to risk losing their gear, unlike low level ones.
You can only spawn in starting zones. So they will still take a ton of time to get to the node that the streamer is questing at.
This suggestion defeats the purpose of other world expanding implementations that force players to engage with a local node community. Even if random, this kind of teleportation affords players a way to travel across the world in such a way that it shrinks the map and goes against the original design intent.
If anything was implemented to mitigate this particular risk it should not expand beyond a local node. But would the anti grief mechanisms already suggested not satisfy your request? Griefers would quickly become corrupted (killing the same low level player over and over, for example) and have in game consequences like reduced stats/effectiveness and bounty targets on their head.
If you feel like this isn't sufficient then you need to suggest additional solutions which dont lead to world shrinking implications.
People aren't opposing the idea as much as they don't want the game to consider streamers as a balancing point. Opening the floodgates for such changes could make the game garbage.
If anything I support being able to grief the streamer more than to get rid of it. It will be a non issue with the personal army they have running around. If anything it will give the streamer an advantage to grief everyone else.
I suggest you read the discussion. Almost everyone agreed that the system will not have much of an impact on normal players anyway. The key is to balance the game for streamers, without affecting a normal player's gameplay.
This suggestion defeats the purpose of other world expanding implementations that force players to engage with a local node community. Even if random, this kind of teleportation affords players a way to travel across the world in such a way that it shrinks the map and goes against the original design intent.
If anything was implemented to mitigate this particular risk it should not expand beyond a local node. But would the anti grief mechanisms already suggested not satisfy your request? Griefers would quickly become corrupted (killing the same low level player over and over, for example) and have in game consequences like reduced stats/effectiveness and bounty targets on their head.
If you feel like this isn't sufficient then you need to suggest additional solutions which dont lead to world shrinking implications.
Not sure how this shrinks the world as players won't be using this to teleport everywhere around the map. If you're a high level player and you do this, you will obviously feel the size of the world as you try to get back to your home node. However, there are other ways to prevent this from happening. One such way is to disable PvP in starting zones, but this is a change that would affect most players and hence why I didn't suggest it.
There would be no balance if you 'Balance for Streamers' but 'Do not affect normal players'. You have strange notions about balance.
First you made comments on my post without reading it properly. Now you're here to talk about my notions of balance without even reading the discussion. You seem to think that if you balance the game for streamers, that it will affect normal players. You're incorrect. 99% of the playerbase will not be griefed by 100s or 1000s of trolls. Streamers however will be griefed by them.
So if you implement a change to combat continuous mass griefing for the 1%, it doesn't affect normal players as the remaining 99% of them won't experience it anyways.
The change I suggested, is minor, and it won't be used by the majority of the playerbase as it puts them at a significant distance from their group and from their home node, UNLESS they're getting spawn camped at their node, which can pretty much only happen if you're at a low level. Higher level players care about their gear, and thus won't engage in constant griefing.
Your sensationalism is something else...I read your OP yesterday, but, you update the OP too often and can make any claim regarding the OP you deem essential for your cause.
If a game takes weeks to level to max level (Without any experience debt), which '100s or 1000s' of players will waste time with a streamer?
Streamers make enemies, those enemies have a right to react.
I'm no fan of streamers, I watch Asmongold for pure entertainment but I haven't touched WoW in over ten years. Streamers love drama, streamers create drama and streamers explore drama.
I've seen Asmongold run around a Column for ages because he 'Can't kill a Druid on a Warrior.' I do not see how someone with such an approach should be coddled in cotton wool and encouraged to play a PvP Based game. If you play a PvP Based game you should be prepared to see, experience and harness PvP.
I do not understand your fascination of trying to change the game for a minority of players. We do not even know how IS will handle Streamer Privilege. IS have stated there will be inbuilt tools for Streamers, we haven't seen the tools though.
Low level PvP can make for excellent entertainment, and twinks are often lower level. I would not want my entertainment to be lost because of a Streamer. I would move from indifference towards streamers to hating streamers in general.
Yet again, you haven't read my post. You're not going to lose any low-level PvP action. The 1% of people who find that they are being target harassed, are the only ones that will choose the option that I stated.
The remaining 99% will go with the regular option of resurrecting at a nearby respawn point, which exists in the game. They will not choose to respawn randomly as it puts them away from their choice node, and friend groups for no real reason. However, if you are being target harassed, then it will be worth the trade of for you.
I am a PvPer. I would love to see the low-level fiestas as well. But after a while, it gets old, and for a normal player like me, I can just walk away from that node and escape it. However, a streamer won't be able to do that. The griefers will follow them. So they need to have an option to escape from that, just like normal players. My suggestion makes it so that the streamer can choose to abandon their friends/groups in order to escape from the mass amount of griefers. Its a tradeof.
This suggestion defeats the purpose of other world expanding implementations that force players to engage with a local node community. Even if random, this kind of teleportation affords players a way to travel across the world in such a way that it shrinks the map and goes against the original design intent.
If anything was implemented to mitigate this particular risk it should not expand beyond a local node. But would the anti grief mechanisms already suggested not satisfy your request? Griefers would quickly become corrupted (killing the same low level player over and over, for example) and have in game consequences like reduced stats/effectiveness and bounty targets on their head.
If you feel like this isn't sufficient then you need to suggest additional solutions which dont lead to world shrinking implications.
Not sure how this shrinks the world as players won't be using this to teleport everywhere around the map. If you're a high level player and you do this, you will obviously feel the size of the world as you try to get back to your home node. However, there are other ways to prevent this from happening. One such way is to disable PvP in starting zones, but this is a change that would affect most players and hence why I didn't suggest it.
If the functionality exists then players will absolutely use it to teleport to random places on the map that they would otherwise access by a deliberate means of travel, hence the world shrinking.
Though, I won't discount the entire premise. I'm only saying that, if it was considered, it should not be considered beyond random spawn points within a single node (possibly adjacent).
This suggestion defeats the purpose of other world expanding implementations that force players to engage with a local node community. Even if random, this kind of teleportation affords players a way to travel across the world in such a way that it shrinks the map and goes against the original design intent.
If anything was implemented to mitigate this particular risk it should not expand beyond a local node. But would the anti grief mechanisms already suggested not satisfy your request? Griefers would quickly become corrupted (killing the same low level player over and over, for example) and have in game consequences like reduced stats/effectiveness and bounty targets on their head.
If you feel like this isn't sufficient then you need to suggest additional solutions which dont lead to world shrinking implications.
Not sure how this shrinks the world as players won't be using this to teleport everywhere around the map. If you're a high level player and you do this, you will obviously feel the size of the world as you try to get back to your home node. However, there are other ways to prevent this from happening. One such way is to disable PvP in starting zones, but this is a change that would affect most players and hence why I didn't suggest it.
If the functionality exists then players will absolutely use it to teleport to random places on the map that they would otherwise access by a deliberate means of travel, hence the world shrinking.
Though I won't discount the entire premise, yet. I'm only saying that, if it was considered, it should not be considered beyond random spawn points within a single node (possibly adjacent).
They could also limit the random respawn option to same continent nodes only, but I'm not sure if that is a good idea.
I've explained in earlier responses why it would be to the Streamers detriment if they are treated like a Corrupted Player and randomly spawned elsewhere. The Family Teleport system must be tested. It boggles my mind that a Streamer could simply abandon the group the streamer is with and leave that group to the griefers, while the streamer is happily and merrily safe from harm.
I've explained in earlier responses why it would be to the Streamers detriment if they are treated like a Corrupted Player and randomly spawned elsewhere. The Family Teleport system must be tested. It boggles my mind that a Streamer could simply abandon the group the streamer is with and leave that group to the griefers, while the streamer is happily and merrily safe from harm.
Again, read my post. This option should only appear after you've died a certain no. of times, like 2 or 3 times. At that point, you have acquired significant negative exp and combat stat reduction. As a normal player, I would just run away at this point. However, like I mentioned above, a streamer won't be able to do that. The trolls will follow him. So they have to make a trade-of, either stay with their friends and get continuously griefed, or spread out and level up.
This system should also ONLY be utilized when the family system gains a dual cd, which Steven said he was considering, as otherwise, it would let the streamer instantly group back up with their friends on the other side of the map which is not fair.
This suggestion defeats the purpose of other world expanding implementations that force players to engage with a local node community. Even if random, this kind of teleportation affords players a way to travel across the world in such a way that it shrinks the map and goes against the original design intent.
If anything was implemented to mitigate this particular risk it should not expand beyond a local node. But would the anti grief mechanisms already suggested not satisfy your request? Griefers would quickly become corrupted (killing the same low level player over and over, for example) and have in game consequences like reduced stats/effectiveness and bounty targets on their head.
If you feel like this isn't sufficient then you need to suggest additional solutions which dont lead to world shrinking implications.
Not sure how this shrinks the world as players won't be using this to teleport everywhere around the map. If you're a high level player and you do this, you will obviously feel the size of the world as you try to get back to your home node. However, there are other ways to prevent this from happening. One such way is to disable PvP in starting zones, but this is a change that would affect most players and hence why I didn't suggest it.
If the functionality exists then players will absolutely use it to teleport to random places on the map that they would otherwise access by a deliberate means of travel, hence the world shrinking.
Though, I won't discount the entire premise. I'm only saying that, if it was considered, it should not be considered beyond random spawn points within a single node (possibly adjacent).
This suggestion defeats the purpose of other world expanding implementations that force players to engage with a local node community. Even if random, this kind of teleportation affords players a way to travel across the world in such a way that it shrinks the map and goes against the original design intent.
If anything was implemented to mitigate this particular risk it should not expand beyond a local node. But would the anti grief mechanisms already suggested not satisfy your request? Griefers would quickly become corrupted (killing the same low level player over and over, for example) and have in game consequences like reduced stats/effectiveness and bounty targets on their head.
If you feel like this isn't sufficient then you need to suggest additional solutions which dont lead to world shrinking implications.
Not sure how this shrinks the world as players won't be using this to teleport everywhere around the map. If you're a high level player and you do this, you will obviously feel the size of the world as you try to get back to your home node. However, there are other ways to prevent this from happening. One such way is to disable PvP in starting zones, but this is a change that would affect most players and hence why I didn't suggest it.
If the functionality exists then players will absolutely use it to teleport to random places on the map that they would otherwise access by a deliberate means of travel, hence the world shrinking.
Though I won't discount the entire premise, yet. I'm only saying that, if it was considered, it should not be considered beyond random spawn points within a single node (possibly adjacent).
They could also limit the random respawn option to same continent nodes only, but I'm not sure if that is a good idea.
Right. I just think the original proposal has far more reaching consequences beyond mitigating this one potential risk. A solution to this problem (if it becomes a problem) would need to be much more limited in scope so as to protect the integrity of the design intentions that others have noted.
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ogreMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2020
Even just the notion of "balancing the game for streamers" is very alarming. If a streamer enjoys playing the game then they'll play it regardless of whether or not they're being ganked, they always have the option of adding a delay to their stream to prevent this.
The game should not be changed to cater to such an insanely small portion of the playerbase. A streamer is literally just another player who has made the decision to broadcast their gameplay, so they should be treated like just another player.
Even just the notion of "balancing the game for streamers" is very alarming. If a streamer enjoys playing the game then they'll play it regardless of whether or not they're being ganked, they always have the option of adding a delay to their stream to prevent this.
The game should not be changed to cater to such an insanely small portion of the playerbase. A streamer is literally just another player who has made the decision to broadcast their gameplay, so they should be treated like just another player.
Again, I'm not balancing the game "around streamers". Its a minor change that doesn't affect any player whatsoever, UNLESS they're getting ghosted/camped constantly.
Regardless of being a streamer or not, I think that adding a "respawn at a random point" option after you die in PvP up until level X with a long cooldown is a good idea.
To make it clear:
the regular respawn option will still exist, obviously
up until level X you will be able to respawn on the other side of the map or right next to where you died (since it's random) every 60 minutes
This would indeed help anyone that is getting griefed right after logging into the game for the first time, even though there are other systems in place which discourage griefing new players, and I can't really see it being abused too much, except maybe for family teleports (which I wish weren't even in the game).
Regardless of being a streamer or not, I think that adding a "respawn at a random point" option after you die in PvP up until level X with a long cooldown is a good idea.
To make it clear:
the regular respawn option will still exist, obviously
up until level X you will be able to respawn on the other side of the map or right next to where you died (since it's random) every 60 minutes
This would indeed help anyone that is getting griefed right after logging into the game for the first time, even though there are other systems in place which discourage griefing new players, and I can't really see it being abused too much, except maybe for family teleports (which I wish weren't even in the game).
Absolutely agree, you could limit this feature to just lvl 10 or 20. I already said above, if the family system is not fixed, then this system should NOT exist in the game. Also, it should be limited to the same continent as well, so that it doesn't reduce the feeling of the world being large.
Comments
But I'm also of the mind that its the same regardless of the streamers level. And if he fucks out of a zone that has nearly all of his followers, then good bye to the followers. They'll either remake a new character, and spawn closer to the streamer, or fuck off his stream. (since we're talking low levels they too got nothing tying them to that node).
Just have the streamer use common sense, and establish his character before streaming, or create a secondary character for streaming, and primary for solo leveling. Streamers often have more characters.
It's a problem I feel that it can be fixed from the streamers side.
This too. You could also make it so that this option becomes available after dying 2 or 3 times in a row. I'll add this to my post.
Not true, once the streamer reaches a high enough level, players won't be able to mass grief him anymore. Only players that invested significant time into characters will be able to kill the streamer, which won't be a lot. But if they do do that, then it poses a huge risk to their character because of the corruption system. Higher level players will not want to risk losing their gear, unlike low level ones.
You can only spawn in starting zones. So they will still take a ton of time to get to the node that the streamer is questing at.
If anything was implemented to mitigate this particular risk it should not expand beyond a local node. But would the anti grief mechanisms already suggested not satisfy your request? Griefers would quickly become corrupted (killing the same low level player over and over, for example) and have in game consequences like reduced stats/effectiveness and bounty targets on their head.
If you feel like this isn't sufficient then you need to suggest additional solutions which dont lead to world shrinking implications.
If anything I support being able to grief the streamer more than to get rid of it. It will be a non issue with the personal army they have running around. If anything it will give the streamer an advantage to grief everyone else.
U.S. East
I suggest you read the discussion. Almost everyone agreed that the system will not have much of an impact on normal players anyway. The key is to balance the game for streamers, without affecting a normal player's gameplay.
Not sure how this shrinks the world as players won't be using this to teleport everywhere around the map. If you're a high level player and you do this, you will obviously feel the size of the world as you try to get back to your home node. However, there are other ways to prevent this from happening. One such way is to disable PvP in starting zones, but this is a change that would affect most players and hence why I didn't suggest it.
First you made comments on my post without reading it properly. Now you're here to talk about my notions of balance without even reading the discussion. You seem to think that if you balance the game for streamers, that it will affect normal players. You're incorrect. 99% of the playerbase will not be griefed by 100s or 1000s of trolls. Streamers however will be griefed by them.
So if you implement a change to combat continuous mass griefing for the 1%, it doesn't affect normal players as the remaining 99% of them won't experience it anyways.
The change I suggested, is minor, and it won't be used by the majority of the playerbase as it puts them at a significant distance from their group and from their home node, UNLESS they're getting spawn camped at their node, which can pretty much only happen if you're at a low level. Higher level players care about their gear, and thus won't engage in constant griefing.
If a game takes weeks to level to max level (Without any experience debt), which '100s or 1000s' of players will waste time with a streamer?
Streamers make enemies, those enemies have a right to react.
I'm no fan of streamers, I watch Asmongold for pure entertainment but I haven't touched WoW in over ten years. Streamers love drama, streamers create drama and streamers explore drama.
I've seen Asmongold run around a Column for ages because he 'Can't kill a Druid on a Warrior.' I do not see how someone with such an approach should be coddled in cotton wool and encouraged to play a PvP Based game. If you play a PvP Based game you should be prepared to see, experience and harness PvP.
I do not understand your fascination of trying to change the game for a minority of players. We do not even know how IS will handle Streamer Privilege. IS have stated there will be inbuilt tools for Streamers, we haven't seen the tools though.
Low level PvP can make for excellent entertainment, and twinks are often lower level. I would not want my entertainment to be lost because of a Streamer. I would move from indifference towards streamers to hating streamers in general.
Yet again, you haven't read my post. You're not going to lose any low-level PvP action. The 1% of people who find that they are being target harassed, are the only ones that will choose the option that I stated.
The remaining 99% will go with the regular option of resurrecting at a nearby respawn point, which exists in the game. They will not choose to respawn randomly as it puts them away from their choice node, and friend groups for no real reason. However, if you are being target harassed, then it will be worth the trade of for you.
I am a PvPer. I would love to see the low-level fiestas as well. But after a while, it gets old, and for a normal player like me, I can just walk away from that node and escape it. However, a streamer won't be able to do that. The griefers will follow them. So they need to have an option to escape from that, just like normal players. My suggestion makes it so that the streamer can choose to abandon their friends/groups in order to escape from the mass amount of griefers. Its a tradeof.
If the functionality exists then players will absolutely use it to teleport to random places on the map that they would otherwise access by a deliberate means of travel, hence the world shrinking.
Though, I won't discount the entire premise. I'm only saying that, if it was considered, it should not be considered beyond random spawn points within a single node (possibly adjacent).
They could also limit the random respawn option to same continent nodes only, but I'm not sure if that is a good idea.
Again, read my post. This option should only appear after you've died a certain no. of times, like 2 or 3 times. At that point, you have acquired significant negative exp and combat stat reduction. As a normal player, I would just run away at this point. However, like I mentioned above, a streamer won't be able to do that. The trolls will follow him. So they have to make a trade-of, either stay with their friends and get continuously griefed, or spread out and level up.
This system should also ONLY be utilized when the family system gains a dual cd, which Steven said he was considering, as otherwise, it would let the streamer instantly group back up with their friends on the other side of the map which is not fair.
DAoC used bind points,
Right. I just think the original proposal has far more reaching consequences beyond mitigating this one potential risk. A solution to this problem (if it becomes a problem) would need to be much more limited in scope so as to protect the integrity of the design intentions that others have noted.
The game should not be changed to cater to such an insanely small portion of the playerbase. A streamer is literally just another player who has made the decision to broadcast their gameplay, so they should be treated like just another player.
Again, I'm not balancing the game "around streamers". Its a minor change that doesn't affect any player whatsoever, UNLESS they're getting ghosted/camped constantly.
Don't believe me? Look at this:
https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyEntertainingMonitorUncleNox?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
If they don't want to be stream sniped, then put a delay or don't stream the launch at all.
To make it clear:
This would indeed help anyone that is getting griefed right after logging into the game for the first time, even though there are other systems in place which discourage griefing new players, and I can't really see it being abused too much, except maybe for family teleports (which I wish weren't even in the game).
Read this first please.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/44956
Absolutely agree, you could limit this feature to just lvl 10 or 20. I already said above, if the family system is not fixed, then this system should NOT exist in the game. Also, it should be limited to the same continent as well, so that it doesn't reduce the feeling of the world being large.