Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
However, a big problem in modern mmorpgs is that the quests are so overly simplified and dummy proof that player doesn't have to think, not read or give any effort into completing a quest. You simply spam accept the quest, open map to see the marker, and move there. Usually, if a game doesn't provide this by default there are addons that add this, but since AoC will not support such addons it that problem will not exist here.
Either way having exact map location markers will be found in the internet and people who really can't bother to read the quest texts can find the info in the internet. But ruining the questing experience for everyone else by dumbing it down and solving all the problems for the user simply doesn't provide a good gaming experience.
tldr;
+ Quest markers to identify quest givers is good, very convenient and doesn't deteriorate the game experience
- Map markers etc. that make questing a boring skip everything walking simulator is not a good idea
So, important quest or histories must have a quest mark, its important for point the way, or point the things you can do(talking about quests), the small tasks or things that dont need an explanation only give noise to the map and distract you for the things that are important. I like the way the events are shown to you in Guild Wars 2, i think this way for the minor tasks are more easy and more inmersive.
Quest markers above NPC's heads is just generally good quality of life, allowing for you to understand who's offering you quests. I especially like the way it's done in Warcraft where the marker is a bright colour if a quest that may be useful to you, and dulled if it probably isn't useful.
Steven has several times noted that he is looking to introduce a new audience of players into the MMO genre, i.e younger players who have not yet had a good MMO experience and making it too complicated will certainly draw away certain crowds. It won't necessarily be an issue for long term MMO players like myself.
I quite like the suggestion made by @Brian Schemerhorn where he mentions there could be a range. Certain quests could be made harder by them being staged with the need to read, but ultimately offering a higher reward for doing them, making players actually want to complete those types of content and being rewarded for doing so as opposed to consistently being forced to do so.
Classic ! or ? above their head would be just fine, alternatively have quest givers shout out to the players and make gestures.
Quest Progression
Depends on how plentiful the number of quests are.
If you give three quest when i enter a new area from two different people-
i'll go straight to autopilot, turn on netflix or youtube and do bare minimum to complete the quest just so i can "get to the next good part".
The context of the quest and requirements, don't change my interaction or engagement with the quest.
Voice acting might help, but only if it's fully voiced.
For this i'd prefer a path or zone on the mini map.
If you give me one or two quest, i might read it and get invested.
Offset the lower number with more requirements and higher rewards.
For this i would not mind to only have a quest objective tracker, with no further hints outside of quest text.
If the game is fun, why would it be bothersome to play it, and have to pay attention to it?
I was always happy with a general direction in a quest text to locate something specific, or a prompt to a landmark where what I was looking for would be nearby. Go northwest? Great, I'll get on that. Eventually everything will be available on external sites, with efficient routes mapped out and all that, but at least make it complex enough and subtle enough that people will NEED to catalogue things off site for use beyond their own personal knowledge
^ That in and of itself can even be a feature in a game, if you allow people to set their own map markers/notations, and do something perhaps like transferring their map data onto an in game item they can hand off to someone else. As far as whether or not it's obvious a quest giver has an npc, with the way the node system is going to work, are there going to be a lot of superfluous npc's in existence, or will every npc that gets added through node growth serve a utility, in which case them possibly having quests will end up being obvious I imagine? To answer how obvious quest givers should be, would take an understanding of that, which I don't have. Also a changing world based on node progress might make map data pointless.
In any event, harder is better in my eyes, and I'm probably in the minority. Challenge makes things more meaningful
Also, could it be possible to satisfy both types of players? Possibly an option to do quests with little to no information with a greater reward or a more guided experience for lesser rewards? I don't think the reward difference should be very big, but you could reward the players who explore more in your game.
Skyrim I think does this pretty well. I'm not a fan of huge question marks, areas circled in bright green or yellow on the map, etc.
On my Opinion, Special Quests/Hidden/Secret, these kind of quest what gives us some kind of Different Skill/Iten/Weapon/Armor/Upgrade/Pet/Mount should just starts when you speak with some NPC's. To incentivate the players to looking for, interact with the world, pay attempion in some Hints/Tips what randon places, npcs, scenários could give to start a Quest.
Also could be add to the game a Discret Compass. So these quest can say aproximatelly the Location, and not just give you A Giant Brighter Arrow indicating the zone where you need to go, or marking in your Minimap/Map magically your objectivies.
Like, you speak to the Gates Guard , Without any marker above his head, and he says to you:
" - Hello adventurer, did you heard something strange when you come to this village? I was coming to my Job early and I heard some strange bird screaming at Southeast of the Lake in the City entrance, could you take a photo of what bird is this?! Or maybe bring me a Feather Sample! I could do that by myself, but I was late to the job, you know man, hard days to lose the job!"
And theeen, the Quest is added to your Journal, also a could have a marker in the map, since you noted the Guard's info in your Journal, but only the General Area, not the specific area, also, 2 Quests into one. He will prize you by take a picture from the bird, But who know what will him give you if you deliver a Feather too.
That Said, These same quest should appear somewhere, in a Journal, per exemple, AFTER, you got some kind of Hint, or really started a quest.
These Daily Missions, or Request missions, like, Hunt 10 Wolves ( Sorry, everyone using that sample, I needed do that too =3 ), Deliver that Letter to X person, Bring this New Potion to Y NPC, all these types or similar, could be placed at on mural. I mean, MissionBoard or QuestBoard.
Like, every City/Village, could have a QuestionBoard or MissionBoard, where we can pickup all these "Must Every Day Missions" kind of quests. And these type of Quest, yes, these ones can have the Specific Location, Markers in the map, since is a mission where, everyone does a lot of times, and all details are specified, and the NPCs wants that completed fast.
Again, this is my Feelings about Breadcrumbs into an MMORPG, after play soooo many styles, like Ragnarok, Aion, ArcheAge, or even Final Fantasy VII, Legend of the Dragon, Breath of Fire, Chrono Cross.
And I know a lot of people will dislike this way, but if we'll show our real feelings, we can discover a way to balance the things. That's is the time to talk about it.
Ps.: I should say that I'm tottally agains't the Idea of create an option to Turn In/Turn Off, the Quest Markers or Breadcrumbs, since this can break the game because people can do these "secret" mission much more fast then others.
Sorry by the Wall Text. But that IS the opportunity to create something big. Really big.
Shadow - The Wanderer
Some things that would make the world easier to navigate like areas all having names and not simple zone and town names appearing. So for example, if the quest says, "kill 10 boars is in the black forest", compared to "in the forest towards the southwest of here."
I also think mobs should clearly have a little marker telling you that you have an active quest on them under their name in the target info. Wild Boars (then below their name) 6/10
Breadcrumbs add depth and players WILL stumble on places and lore they wouldn't have found otherwise.
If you had a quest you needed done and adventure walked into town would you just stand still quietly in the street? No, you would beckon them, get their attention! Icons can take away from the immersion but I think its acceptable.
I would recommend the shiny names like you intended and have a questboard or a "guild" the player can walk to for quests and the quest can activate the npc beckon or something. Different quests types can change the name color of the character. Orange, yellow, green, etc.
I am not a huge fan of splattering highlighted 'go here' areas on the maps to indicate where to go to fulfill a specific quest, such as where in the world the specific items, gatherables or monsters are. I believe all those details on 'where to go' should be within the quest text itself. The quest giver should provide some direction in that matter.
I am also not a huge fan of making target NPC's or other items/gatherables that you need to find for a quest stand out from everything else around it, such as sparkles or dense outlining. In my opinion this ruins immersion, and us as players should be keen on what we're actually trying to accomplish on a given quest.
In my experience as the above features were implemented into WoW over the years, it just made everything cookie cutter with no depth, difficulty or immersion, and it became rather mindless after a while, and with little satisfaction.
All mandatory and repetitive quests should be completely on rails. I think FF14 serves as a good example here.
Minimum breadcrumbs: Optional quests.
I want to figure these out on my own and enjoy a sense of immersion, rather than following where the UI tells me to go.
These types of quests should be few and far between, used more as signposts to give the player direction on what to do and where to go next. For simple fetch or kill quests, I think that quests should be delivered via noticeboard or even given to you by just talking to random people. This makes them optional and supplementary. If I'm too weak for the main story quest (or whatever the main goal is), then I can take some time to do these sidequests for experience, money, and gear to make me stronger. Being railroaded into completing eight thousand small quests before I can access the real meat of the game feels like paying my taxes as opposed to really earning something monumental.
(That's more or less the end of my suggestion and thoughts on the topic, the rest is just an anecdote).
My first MMO was Runescape, and the quests in that game (at the time anyways) were very sparse, but each one had multiple steps and requirements that could have you traipsing across the world in search of a special ore or ingredients for a potion. They weren't very complicated, but they had structure and it felt like you were accomplishing something by completing them. The big one (for free players) was killing a dragon, and that took preparation, training, and gear. It took me a long time to feel ready to fight the dragon, but every hour that I spent grinding my combat skills felt important. The game hadn't told me to go kill five hundred city guards before I could do the next part of the quest, I did that so that I could even accomplish the quest at all.
Compare this to when I started playing WoW for the first time, and I was shocked when quests basically amounted to: "Kill 8 cats which are literally walking around right over there" or "Take this package down the road." They aren't a bad way to give players something to do, but it can feel like busywork that's keeping you from accomplishing the main quest as opposed to necessary work so that you're prepared for the important stuff.
I'm not a fan of glowing paths in games like this. I feel too railroaded and it heavily break immersion (unless of course the quest is 'follow the mysterious glowing path and report back where it leads'. Bonus points in this case if my character becomes 'intoxicated' by the glowing path and autopaths to its end). A target area for the quest should be representative of the level of detail an NPC should be able to describe the location to. For example, if I need to go speak with the blacksmith, at his shop, it would be reasonable for a target area on the map to be pretty specific. If I need to find someone lost in the woods, that would be tough to know exactly where they are. This could be narrowed down by speaking to NPCs in a tavern for example.
I hope roads will be clearly displayed (once discovered) to make my own pathing easier, if I choose to go by road. Ideally, if a place is mentioned by the quest given, that name should exist on the map if it's a place I've already discovered. I'd like to prompt an NPC for more information if I have trouble finding it.
Main Story and skill/dungeon unlocking quests should be unmissable.
The quest log/tracker should have categories.
I don't mind markers on the head/map as long as they are toggleable/filterable.
If the quest giver lends you a quest item this transaction should be obvious.
Backpack should have a tab/category for quest items.
I don't want to have to open my backpack to use said object, put an icon in the quest tracker.
I'm unsure if this icon should be visible even if the tracker is collapsed.
Objects to use quest items on don't need to be spackly or marked. Just like gathering nodes you should actively look for those.
Going back to the NPC to turn in the quest should be meaningful, otherwise a "complete" button in the quest log/tracker should suffice.
CLICCA QUI PER UNIRTI ALL'ORDINE
In my opinion, I feel like not having any markers/icons on NPC’s makes the game more challenging and enjoyable. To actually have to read text and immerse your self in the world/lore of what Ashes is. This gives it a sense of achievement and purpose. MMO’s are meant to be challenging, not just something that its handed to you. Through the years many MMO’s have lost that sense of immersion. In my personal opinion I feel that if everything is given to you, all the hours of hard work the Devs have put into making the world immersive is pointless.... all those late hours creating an amazing tale/story was for nothing.
I feel that people should enjoy every little aspect and detail of each story told by NPC’s.
I understand we don’t all enjoy reading text or hear what someone has to say and would like to run through the game to reach max lvl.
If that’s the case why not build a bulletin board in the middle of town with quest/hunts/bounties/gathering/Nodes for those who don’t want to be immersed in the worlds lore. Make it so they go to the board and accept rank missions. Have quest ranked and based on the rank difficulty would be the reward they receive. The bulletin board could have missions from factions, from guilds, from players, from crafting, maybe players can put bounties and give some kind of reward making it immersive with the community. This way we avoid all icons on NPC’s making the world less cluttered and giving quick access to questing.
I truly enjoy exploration and trying to decipher if the NPC wanted me to go East or North and look for a rock with the shape of a dragon where I will find a cave filled with goblins and would have to fight my way into the deepest part of the cave to find a secret room with a treasure chest and a boss Orc who I have to slay and retrieve the stolen goods. Now that’s an adventure!
Especially if those Quests are "Oh brave hero of the dawn, I'm so busy standing around that I can't get these apples from the tree right there myself. PLZ halp!"
What I enjoyed when I played Oblivion again recently, was that you had to listen to rumors that gave you hints that a certain person had a Quest for you. You then need to find the person yourself or ask around where to find them. And you only got a marker for further quest objectives instead of the start of the quest.
But now that I think about it... Is there any singleplayer RPG where you actually see who's gonna have a quest? Is everyone just not doing any side Quests in these games or what? Why should it be different with an MMORPG?
If you have a ton of NPCs walking around, where's the point in those if no one's gonna talk to them? I'm not if I see no reason to do so.
But I'm used to that so I don't really mind either way that much. What I just can't stand is if the mini map is literally spammed with symbols of 20 special NPCs standing on one spot so that I can't even see myself anymore. I don't need a symbol for every damn little thing. If I visited the Bank once, then I'll probably find it pretty easy the second time. And if not I just ask in the chat.
Maybe a mix of Oblivion and Skyrim is a spontaneous idea:
>walking by an NPC triggers a speech bubble above him where he spreads rumors as hints for a quest. If you talk to him you can get more information.<
-Limited Breadcrumb System Pros and Cons-
Pros- A system using limited map hints and markers could make the player pay attention and could be more immersive for many people as well as force questing to become less a simple level grinding activity while becoming more of an actual solid route of gameplay for those who favor questing to other activities in the game.
Cons- On the flip side, people who don't enjoy questing but must do it for either story, to unlock further content, or to level efficiently, will simply see this system as an inconvenience. Either because they want to grind out levels doing these quests on one screen while watching Netflix on the other, or they're in a rush to get to a certain level to do a dungeon with their guildmates.
-Fully Breadcrumbed System Pros and Cons-
Pros- A system focused on highly visible quest markers and directives makes "speed-questing" extremely easy and simple. It also puts a focus on the story and could potentially help many people stay interested, who would otherwise be deterred by long periods of time spent searching for trivial quest items. For the casual and/or busy MMO player who only dedicates a few hours a week, a simple and directive system is invaluable.
Cons- This system, especially when taken towards the extreme, can make the player feel encouraged to blow through quests, ignoring story and dialogue. Players who enjoy the game for the questing will likely be bored and potentially struggle to stay immersed in the story. Also, when new players come along, they are more likely to be advised by veteran players/guildmates to blow through quests to level, etc.
My opinion is that a balance between the two can't really go wrong. I feel like if you focus too heavily on one style or the other you will be encroaching on one group of people's playstyle while catering to the other. Questing should feel immersive and well paced, while not being extremely streamlined. I've enjoyed questing in MMO's a lot, and I've also speed quested a lot to get through boring quests. The questing I've enjoyed the most and felt most immersed in has been short but concise dialogue (I dont want to read a whole chapter of text every time i talk to an NPC), with glowing quest markers above NPC heads and map arrows to the next quest, with fairly limited details on where to gather x item for the quest so that you must explore the area to find what you're looking for. Some examples of MMO's I have loved questing in are LOTRO (also partially because I'm a big lotr fan though) and GW2 (Such good storytelling at a pace I enjoy).
1. target locations highlighted
I would use hybrid system based on the Node System. If you are citizen of a specific node maybe if the location is in same place you can get Map mark to use as reference since you should know the place well. If the quest is outside the node then depending on the ZOI you may be more general direction and or clues only given. Deep Story Quest lines should be a bit more if you get enough clues gathered it may increase the location and or narrow it down better. Reason to explore or ask others about it.
2. quest givers with icons above their heads
No Icons or ! around would be welcome change. I would rather have maybe something like town Crier or Tavern rumors to pick up potential story lines where you can use your class skill to find out details. Then Guilds Services may offer things differently from . Artisans may have normal quests along the lines of a delivery / gather /processing stuff to spur on the economy.
3. Player Made Quests
Bulletin Boards or Players House can host potential quests/tasks needed.
4. Raid PVE Quest Lines. After finding hidden rooms some may offer hidden quests so you have to maybe run it again to find another location with clues to pull it all together that may help understand how you can unlock another secret dungeon.
5. PVP Quest Lines. Example would be to make a name for yourself. DAOC had Realm Rank so this would be something of Leader-board or track of those who are out and about that week doing those tasks defending caravans, etc. So for this to work via the Node system there could be Node quests on that tracks you bounty or how many defense of the node you helped with and gives you quests to further push you to help more or be better challenge you further.
There was no clear "efficient" path, that came later down the road when the community decided to create guides or tutorials on how to get xyz item, quest etc. The game just focused on creating a very addictive and fun environment where players just wanted to stay there even if they were not doing any quests.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FGxcfsQb7k8
The quest interface on BDO is too much for me initially, but for the love of the graphic i eventually got used to it. But i believe everyone prefer a clean quest interface (something like questing system in ESO) or interface overall regardless they are experienced MMO players or newcomers. Fully adjustable interface is definitely very nice to have for a MMORPG but player would prefer default clean and easy interface (overall or questing) then given the option to edit the interface for more complicated needs.
Another big aspect for a great questing experience for me is the voice acting. ESO does an excellent job on it. Unfortunately I feel like people nowadays are just getting more and more lazy to read. A fast-paced quest voice acting from every NPCs would be awesome.
Another thing ESO does really on regarding their questing in my opinion is the depth and amount of quest. The questing experience in ESO is not an Uber driver with 20 short little trips within an afternoon. It is 2 or even 1 very long and in-depth trip which makes you engaged in the story and characters within but still serve the purposes for leveling and character development. The quests do not feel cheap and meaningless that players do not even need to read the context of the quest, they just accept it and look at the quest requirement and finish them without any engagement to the lore/story. And when mentioned about lore, i think a good and engaging lore in a MMORPG is a great way to grab players even the game is lacking a little bit.
I love to read and understand the quest when before i do them (helps with immersion), but nothing complicated and the language used should be easily understandable (a long day after work, sometime players cant give all their energy to put themselves again in an adventure mode thus easy but engaging quest NPC dialog language would be great. ESO questing dialog sometimes is just tiring to absorb when mind is tired and there is not much do to besides more quests. BTW sometimes i really just wanna log in to a MMORPG and chill in there by doing some kinda of relaxation activities, but so far none of the games officially allow you to do that).
Player that prefer more "auto-pilot" kind of questing experience i think they are either casual or player into more PvP type of gameplay (MOBAs or shooters). If they are casual, i think it is important for devs to make questing easier for them for them to get interested to do it and gradually increase the necessity to read and understand the quest. For players prefer the PvP in every type of game they play, well to be honest they won't stay in a MMORPG for a long time anyway. They will stay here just to play the PvP aspect of it and no matter how excellent is your questing system, they won't want to do it. So don't even bother adjusting PvE for PvP players, just improve PvP experience and they will stay for that. I think one thing devs should be good at to make a game successful is especially a MMORPG is to have excellent market segmentation skills to analysis their players and their various behaviors and needs.
With that being said, I think that having a bunch of quest markers and textures on the ground to guide you to the location does break immersion and can lead to some clutter.
Therefore, I think there could be some cool alternatives.
For example, in each node you could have a building (like a tavern) where people can go and get information about which NPCs are giving out quests. This would allow you to do away with the exclamation points above the head of an NPC but give people a concise way to view what is available and it creates a common starting point for accepting quests.
For location based information, if the NPC knows where the location is at, I think that having map markers where players can pull out the map to see if they are in the general vicinity is fine. However, if the dungeon entrance is hidden, I want to find that out for myself. I don't want to be lead exactly there by the breadcrumbs.
Also, I think it would be fun to have NPCs physically guide players to locations like a dungeon or castle. I think it adds an element of adventure and allows players to bond with some of the inhabitants, giving an immersive feel.
Essentially make as much of the non-essential story driven NPC contact points as simple/marked as possible with any of the substantial XP/Item quests more in line with the rewards offered in terms of potential difficulty with completing due to comprehension of the story/area.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts