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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Also, a cosmetic shop generates more revenue for the game, which means that we can have high quality servers maintained alongside more content releases in the future. Seems a no brainer to me!
It might be necessary for the game to survive, it might not, but the fact is that this game will have a Cash Shop regardless of what anything anyone says.
Maybe in the future there will be subscription based games without a Cash Shop again like we did in the past, but unfortunately I highly doubt that.
For real. That other guys thread on this was literally him trying to sound smart. This simply just doesn't make any sense. I think these people just want to buy the game and the alpha/beta access without having to "buy" the extra in cosmetics.
So many layers here of "little bit of information can be dangerous" so lets go with it layer by layer.
1) "Self Funded" is an initial investment. This was clearly not enough made evident by the kick starter which was classified as further initial investment.
2) Sustainability is not equivalent to initial funding. Growth of a company will always take more capital and can be achieved in various ways. They disclosed this in the kick starter and was even discussed in PAX (58:31-1:02)
3)You are talking about My.com and Mail.ru and they are publishers and IS maintains 100% creative control. There was huge blowout and was addressed many times by Steven. I spoke about having sustain revenue supporting a new game from an already essablished game studio like NC Soft and Blizzard. A Publisher works for the studio and selling out to a game company like activision did works with/merges are completely different so check your self.
In the same link i posted above they (Steven specifically) comments on the exact cosmetic issue you are speaking about and plans on avoiding it all together.
Thats a very easy statement to say and just pushes everything off to the gaming company to figure out. Users like the small shop anti-big business mentality and these same people don't want micro transaction in any form. In the recent anti multi boxing mentality that users are very passionate about (not trying to trigger anyone) practically shuts off repeat revenue from same customers (outside single subs). So please tell me how you think they can expand with subs only? If you say they mention it was possible I'd like to AGAIN mention that they are using the cosmetics to fun expansions and growth in the company.
People keep mentioning WoW and I'm tired of always having to point out that all of that is the Blizzard business model. Your entire final WoW rant sounds like planned obsolescence and I agree that sucks, but what good is doing by pretty much saying "Well look at WoW...it failed for them and Blizzard is the biggest gaming studios so clearly you're going to fail and this game is doomed from the start."?
The default $15 subscription has been kept for a long time now when it comes to MMORGPs, and guess what, inflation is a thing, and games are also getting more and more expensive to run with todays standards.
That's the reason cash shops became a thing.
Now, I think people are underestimating how much money companies gain from cash shops, even if it's just cosmetics. If you instead where to make up for that money by removing the cash shop and increasing the monthly fee, it would be a bigger increase than what most people think.
If you increase monthly fee a lot, then you will have people complain about that. With cash shop you at least can decide not to spend more, and for 99% of players, it's not pay to win.
If you are to complain about this, please come up with a better solution then.
Omg I flippin' love this. A simple inflation calculation I did. I played Lineage 2 in 2005 and cost $15 usd. With a 32.7 inflation rate from 2005 - 2020 the equivalent is $19.90! Thats loads of revenue lost but I'd wager they are doing because if a small, zero title, game studios said their subs would be $20 people would lose their mind
But let's think a little outside the box. We can speculate that the raw cost of running a server in the future will be cheaper than it is today. If I think back 10, 15 years what it cost to run a mediocre pizza-box server with a mediocre network uplink compared to what we have today, it boggles the mind.
Once the game is developed and being played for a few years, the work will shift to new content (hopefully) and the amount of cash needed is less volatile (since there will be no more "surprises") so one can make solid business plans around the number of subscriptions. And with that plan , you can keep the game running for as long as you see it fit. A way to keep subscriptions is by adding things to collect. Gear-skins, wardrobe, mounts.. whatever.
I agree if the the shop is the only place where you can get decent-looking stuff, it would be a mistake. But even in WoW, there are mounts and gear you can get without resorting to the shop that looks nice. If the publishers stick to the plan that AOC will have equally viable gear in game, I say the shop will be for the fashion victims that collect stuff like that. And i cannot see a way how that hurts the game. Just cut the buy-in skins/gear from all visible achievement badges and you are good to go.
Now, the things that are sold in the shop must be designed by someone. If we say that the person was hired, part of their design power will surely be used for in game design as well. And we can safely assume, such a designer will partially be paid by the cash that flows in from the shop. If that happens, a large shop to buy things in benefits the game as a whole.
What would surely spell doom for the game would be if you added exclusive stuff for a lot of money (like a flying mount). Especially if that item is a sign of great dedication to the game. Such things should never be sold or the cornerstones of a game like AOC (dedicated guilds and their leaders) will vanish.
¨By definition, PTW is all about giving you an advantage over others¨
If another player can access something that I cannot acquire but that interests me, or I can get a similar version but with time and effort within the game, this player has a clear advantage over me.
The advantage of having something that you don't or the advantage of acquiring something by simply swiping their card while to get something similar I have to invest time in the game.
Advantage over others.
For money.
P2W.
You don't WIN, by looking better.
You don't have and advantadge by looking better.
It's not P2W.
I would like to not have cosmetic shop aswell. But it's not P2W.
Yes I win.
The lord of cosmetics!
The master of Fashion!
The GOD of I have this!
Yes I have advantage, if I can achieve with money something others do not or need to speen time and effort to ahieve.
And I am ok if you and Intrepid Think that is not a P2W, but, for me is a P2W.
That would only apply if you have an odd interpretation of the word winning.
How does wearing a nice new hat help you win the game? Of course, if your /personal/ goal is to get every outfit in the game, the shop will keep you from your personal goal if you cannot or do not want to shell out the cash.
Pay to look different. Yes.
Pay to win? Not really.
Don't misunderstand me, I think p2w features are the worst thing that can happen to a game and will cause me to run for the hills. But as long as the nice new hat is just a hat (which was stated like 100 times already), I consider it OK. I mean, the guy paying for the game said what will be in the shop....if he doesn't know, who does?
I fully agree with you that you never should be able to get an in-game item (even cosmetic) in the shop. Those two worlds should be clearly separated.
For the record, I listened to the audience's request and put an end to my creation.
This is not mine, I am only as a participant.
I understand perfectly, but with that justification things could be sold in the store that are not an advantage to win (according to the commonly accepted competitive goal) and that would not be accepted nevertheless.
Standing at a strictly competitive point, winning implies obtaining first place, arriving first, being the strongest, dominating, imposing on performance, etc.
But an MMORPG is not only competition, it involves much more than that, it is a virtual world full of possibilities, within these those of a competitive nature.
In an MMORPG, in addition to the goals set by competitiveness, there are goals of each player's own, that part of the content that gratifies, amuses, entertains, and gives the feeling of having won the moment a challenge is reached.
Music does not confer a competitive advantage.
The visual effects of spells and abilities are not a competitive advantage.
Changes in the weather, gestures or emotions, the design and color of a tabard or shield, dialogues ...
For some the sale of cosmetics is not a P2W, for others it is.
I understand that if we were in a game like FFXIV where costume competitions are held, it would be a clear P2W, as AOC does not have this competitive mode, then the importance of this type of content is underestimated and it is used to generate profits.
The point is that the absence of a competitive mode does not mean that there are players interested in this type of content and by not taking them into account they are distancing them from the product.
We could summarize it as follows:
- AOC does not have a competitive mode for the use of cosmetics, therefore, it does not consider it P2W.
- Users who appreciate cosmetic content and consider it relevant in their gaming experience approach AOC, see that the content is part of the microtransaction monetization system, see it as P2W since it is a fundamental part of their gaming experience, move away.
So you are saying that they can't hire more people or that keeping the servers up is free. If you are willing to put 30million in case it goes wrong I guess Steven would take the risk.
I am saying that they can easily expand the current workforce in intrepid Studios for another 20 members and keep on production with a comparably small player base.
Speak for yourself. I'm interested in winning sieges in S T Y L E.
so how do they make money?
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
Monthly subscriptions.
Actually, WoW was the first MMO to set the price at 15 bucks. EQ was like 9.99 an DAoC was 12.99 so WoW was pushing the limit for the time. As you can see with Lineage 2, they saw WoW players were paying 15 bucks in droves so EVERYONE brought their price up to 15 bucks where it has stayed. Part of the reason for that is, the monthly charge is pretty much a made up number based solely on how much the market will bear.
In the past 16 years no new game has dared do what WoW did back in the day and raise the pay ceiling. I will bet you though that once someone successfully does it, everyone will mysteriously raise their sub fees to match, spouting some crap about cost of keeping the doors open is getting expensive, blah blah blah.
Visual progression is certainly not winning in the context of P2W, it gives you no advantages over other players which is where the dislike for P2W stems from. The term specifically refers to situations where you pay for items which make you better then other players that did not spend money, and cosmetic changes do not offer such advantages in any form.
Now the internet personal use is as regulated and government burdened as real life is with normal products and activities are.
A sub only just doesnt cut it for quality and competitivenes to pay people for anymore, unless you figure out a way to fight down millions in costs expenditures, do not complain about a cosmetic cash shop when 99% games out there use their cash shop for pay to win and pay to fast level, and pay to convenience.
Unless you got 30 million in donations you want to share to help the company pay actual good salaries for an actual living wage for employees and all the millions it costs to upkeep infrastructure, utilities, megaserver, maintainers, coders, legal fees?
Yes, no?
That is not how inflation is calculated. Inflation is calculated as a percentage increase each year. So, year one at 32.7% would increase the original price of $14.99 per month in 2005 to $19.89 per month in 2006; year 2 would be $26.40 per month in 2007, etc. Year 2020 would be a sub cost of $1,385.91 per month.
Historically (over the last 100 years), inflation in the U.S. has averaged 2.5%-3.0% Applying this to your example of 2005-2020 yields a cost of $22.25 - $24.05. This is 10.57% to 17.27% higher than your inflation estimate. Additionally, I have been reading that inflation may rise rapidly soon because the treasury is apparently printing a large quantity of money to help combat COVID19. We will have to wait to see the exact effect on inflation, but it unlikely to go down and I doubt that it will remain the same.
Inflation: 32.7%
Year Price 32.70% Final price
2005 14.99 1.327 $19.89
2006 $19.89 1.327 $26.40
2007 $26.40 1.327 $35.03
2008 $35.03 1.327 $46.48
2009 $46.48 1.327 $61.68
2010 $61.68 1.327 $81.85
2011 $81.85 1.327 $108.62
2012 $108.62 1.327 $144.13
2013 $144.13 1.327 $191.27
2014 $191.27 1.327 $253.81
2015 $253.81 1.327 $336.81
2016 $336.81 1.327 $446.94
2017 $446.94 1.327 $593.09
2018 $593.09 1.327 $787.04
2019 $787.04 1.327 $1,044.40
2020 $1,044.40 1.327 $1,385.91
Inflation: 2.5%
Year Price 2.5% Final price
2005 14.99 1.025 $15.36
2006 $15.36 1.025 $15.75
2007 $15.75 1.025 $16.14
2008 $16.14 1.025 $16.55
2009 $16.55 1.025 $16.96
2010 $16.96 1.025 $17.38
2011 $17.38 1.025 $17.82
2012 $17.82 1.025 $18.26
2013 $18.26 1.025 $18.72
2014 $18.72 1.025 $19.19
2015 $19.19 1.025 $19.67
2016 $19.67 1.025 $20.16
2017 $20.16 1.025 $20.66
2018 $20.66 1.025 $21.18
2019 $21.18 1.025 $21.71
2020 $21.71 1.025 $22.25
Inflation: 3%
Year Price 3% Final price
2005 14.99 1.03 $15.44
2006 $15.44 1.03 $15.90
2007 $15.90 1.03 $16.38
2008 $16.38 1.03 $16.87
2009 $16.87 1.03 $17.38
2010 $17.38 1.03 $17.90
2011 $17.90 1.03 $18.44
2012 $18.44 1.03 $18.99
2013 $18.99 1.03 $19.56
2014 $19.56 1.03 $20.15
2015 $20.15 1.03 $20.75
2016 $20.75 1.03 $21.37
2017 $21.37 1.03 $22.01
2018 $22.01 1.03 $22.67
2019 $22.67 1.03 $23.35
2020 $23.35 1.03 $24.05
Steven already mentioned, that Cosmetics earn-able inside the game will be:
If you won't believe Steven in that regard, why believe him about anything at all? If you won't believe him about anything at all, then why are you even here?
The Cosmetic Cash Shop is going to stay, you know that, I know that, we all know that. Would i prefer everything to be within the game? Sure. Will it happen? No. There is still a business in the background and more money is always good for a business as they can use it to reinvest into the longevity of the game. Will they do it? We don't know. What we do know is, that there are much better investments when profit is all Steven was interested in.
The cosmetic shop isn't bad. The OCD-like disorder that forces people to own everything is. Most people won't give a flying fuck about the Cash Shop. They might spend a couple of $ to look the way they want, they might spend a little more than a couple of bucks. That's their decision to make, however a cosmetic cash shop hasn't been the downfall for a single game in history. Some are even doing quite well through them.
If people's primary worry is the quality of in-game cosmetics, then AoC must be doing really well in its development in the first place.
Also, WoW, FFXIV and ESO are doing quite fine, despite their cosmetic cash shop. The ruin hasn't hit them so far, so I'd guess that AoC doesn't have too much to worry about either.
I felt myself getting stupid after reading this comment and didn't go beyond that. Another case of someone who clearly doesn't know what P2W is tossing it around.
People who paid for cosmetics wouldn't be happy, for one. I would like to be able to disable cosmetics being shown. However, I believe Steven has already said it won't be possible to disable them, sadly.
This is a silly post