Node types .. i don't see the reason

Hello Ashes devs

I'm here to help you , as always.
You have some nice and great ideas for a new mmorpg, but many game design idea are badly thought. you want to do too much and get the Best mmorpg ever .. it's not simple, at last you are trying.
The node types don't make too much sense and i will predict it's going to be bad balanced. When a node is stronger and when all the other nodes want the same features there is a problem.
The node type you thought is a type of policy of the city, and it's static. The features each type will get are rly important for the game and all the players. Every player need the chance to use those basic function .. for the cities.
If someone want to travel fast, or anotherone want to be a Bounty hunter ... you will not be able to have different player with those different style of gamplay in the same node/city. This will lead the game to a static and boring gameplay.

The teleport it's just op ... it beats the AC becouse you can easly travel from city to city and be more effective of the Auction house ... of course you will probably neft this huge power with stupid things that will make the player base unhappy.
I don't get why the teleport is a scientific thing. It's not ... following your lore it's a magic discovery ... the focal point of all your lore is a magic portal opened by the "goddess" , it makes much sense if the teleport is a feature of the Divine node. Following your lore i support ... also the lore says that the Sanctus world has no magic ... then the tecnology is the main aspect , that evolved in the years ... why do we have a scientific node with more tecnology that the rest? Are the node going to advance the already maxed tecnology level of the Sanctus abitant? Are they going to ignore all the magic of the world? Why the other cities cannot use the same tecnology they used in thousands (?) of years. It all makes no point and it's caotic , attribute of an ambitious progect with too many things to do and think for so few devs. I hope you will get some extra time in reviewing some of the game design choises. And maybe take some of my suggestions ..

Becouse right now you didn't gave any info about the Divine node, for now. This means that the scienze took most of the Divine node ideas. There is no need for a scientific node, all can be science based.
So if you (devs) are stuck in a dead point for the Divine node just delete the scientific one and make the Divine node with most of the Scientific features. Or ...

So ... usually the policy of a city have a leader with a philosopy and preferences ... making war/exploration, or making economy . The divine and scientific aspects are just another flavour . You can have a military and religious city , making holy war . Or maybe military and scientific ... more like the nazi one xD sadly. Anyway Religion and science influence the node in different ways. So the best way to handle that is beeing able to choose between religion or science focus and then between aggressive or conservative playstyle. This will make a city feel , compleate, various and more fun in general. Also the politic of a city must be dinamic ... and maybe you already have this intention ... if a leader change then all the node type must change. I don't like the idea that a leader is not a Leader and it has no power or influence ... and he must follow the politics of the node ... just becouse the node is born in the grass at the coordinate 120,434 ... for example. This takes away gameplay and makes everything feel more fake and railroaded, useless.

What a node type is? A node type must change based on the Biome and region ... hills, mountains etc. The buildings are different of course, the resources and the dungeons ... this will make each city unique. Not an already programmed economic ... divine .. scientific policy. What if i want my node to be an economic type becouse i have lot's of nice resources near me? You have no choise ... but wait , now i'm pretty confused, you said in some video that each player can influence the node progress and alignment, so if the player are going to be a pvp node for the most then the node will be a more military focussed one ... so now i'm pretty confused by your contraddiction here xD i need to go back and see your video .

So ... is the scientific node the Magic node? This makes a lot more sense then. With everything , the teleport too ... the new science in Verra is the Magic of course xD how dumb am i ...

Anyway .. are you going to look at all that ? and maybe fix/improve the node system? Thz

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Comments

Khronus

I think the OP has some......interesting perspective and some people are getting lost in poor translation. I'm hoping he isn't actually addressing the devs in a way, that would be offensive to many, on purpose : ).

I will say this. I do like the idea that teleport should not be scientific and more so a "portal" that could be created from a religious or magical city but that's just me. I'll be happy with anything IS decides to do ultimately haha.

Medrash1

@KHRONUS

KHRONUS wrote: »

I think the OP has some......interesting perspective and some people are getting lost in poor translation. I'm hoping he isn't actually addressing the devs in a way, that would be offensive to many, on purpose : ).

I will say this. I do like the idea that teleport should not be scientific and more so a "portal" that could be created from a religious or magical city but that's just me. I'll be happy with anything IS decides to do ultimately haha.

Thanz you

no dude ... what did i say offensive? Let me know xD .

unfortunately the discussion cannot be edited , i would have fix it in no time ... (fix or fixed? xD ) haha

GrandHarfang

Medrash wrote: »

what "i'd" means? I'm learning xD haha . Is it an abbreviation for what term?

It's an abbreviation for "I would"

Khronus

It's all good. I can sense the broken English in your message haha. Your original post says "You have some nice and great ideas for a new mmorpg, but many game design idea are badly thought." You basically said to the developers that many of their designs are bad. This is going to anger a lot of us because AoC is creating VERY die hard fans with their content (me included).

I see your perspective on wanting to suggest but careful on your wording if you want to avoid making people respond with angry posts

insomnia

I don't think we have all the information about what what the various nodes does. Some of the node types we have no information about. I think this game will be build around conflict. If people don't like what the mayor is doing with the city, they can try to become the next major. Leveling 1 node hinderes the others. So that can cause people to try and siege a node. That is the point. You don't seem to have much knowladge about the game. The nodes are there to make the world feel living. Some cities grow while others might shrink/get destroyed

apmax

The guy who thinks that being countered in combat is fundamentally bad game design also doesn't see the point in different cities being better at different things based on their location, how very surprising.
At the very least, if you want your ideas to be taken as anything other than ridiculous and inflammatory, then don't present them as "fixing" game systems that you seem to have a tenuous grasp on the mechanics of in the first place.

GodsThesis

Medrash wrote: »

@GodsThesis

GodsThesis wrote: »

Is OP being serious or am I suppose to be reading reverse budget google-translated English.

Yea actually i wrote some bad comments, of course the english is not my main language and i'm pretty tired those days. just ignore some errore if you can

Just making sure I am not being trolled that's all.

Anyways, I think you make too many vague assumptions that you think are logical but they may not actually be.

For example:

Medrash wrote: »

The node type it doesn't make too much sense and i will predict it's going to be bad balanced. When a node is stronger and when all the other nodes want the same features there is a problem.
The node type you thought is a type of policy of the city, and it's static. The features each type will get are rly important for the game and all the players. Every player need the chance to use those basic function .. for the cities.

You think this is a problem but it's not. Conflict is the intended feature. Everyone having the same functions is more likely to create a static system. So let's be clear with words then. Maybe you don't actually think it's bad balance, you mean it's an unfair balance. Thus you think things being unfair is bad. that's why you interchange the two. At least, that's what I am reading.

An unfair balance can be good for the game. If a metropolis or another node stops me and my group from processing our own node, then we'll take them down, loot, destroy, and degrade their node. This can be a dynamic system, not static as you mentioned.

Medrash wrote: »

I don't get why the teleport is a scientific thing. It's not ... following your lore it's a magic discovery ... the focal point of all your lore is a magic portal opened by the "goddess" , it makes much sense if the teleport is a feature of the Divine node.

It's not correct completely assume the two: science and magic can be different here. At best you need to understand: what is science? Science is a method of discovery for understanding the world through evidence rather than by logic( though it can use logic). Science is the successor to Greek Philosophy of using observations and reason to understand the world( I think this change happened in the Enlightenment?).

Anyways, using magic to discover/understand the world can be scientific in a fantasy setting. I understand that the scientific community is becoming more like a religion these days. But fundamentally science is the rigorous methods for discovery based on evidence (this is the key part pre and post enlightenment). The two don't have to be opposites, though they can if one wants them to. Same can go for religion and science as you pointed out. The two actually can co-exist and aren't necessarily opposites. Plenty of religious scientists back then and today. Point being: no need to separate religion and science between nodes, whatever you meant by that.

At a minimum and in simple/game terms, science is based on magic. Magic being the vehicle for discovery or specifically, rediscovery.

The teleport will be incredibly useful, not sure about overpowered though.

I don't think you fundamentally understand why things are in the game or why they are there. It sounds like you think your ideas would be better. And the writing style is...quite flamboyant. I am not ignoring your ideas. I think your reasoning is misplaced and your ideas aren't better than the current system.

Kneczhevo

I wasnt sure if this was a troll post, broken English, or some 12 year old telling the devs to make his game.

As you said @Medrash, you haven't seen all the videos. Take some time and watch them and other material. It would serve you better, than posting made up stuff.

winner909098

Medrash wrote: »

@winner909098

winner909098 wrote: »

thats what I meant, sorry if it was confusing. You can only build one between science metropolises, and teleportation is only for citizens.

between science metropolises? So it means that you can choose only 1 parent node with metro stage to connect right? So if you go in the other metropoly you cannot return back probably, if he connected his teleport to another node .. but you still have the airship. It's op.

I meant the airship

Hurf Derfman

@Medrash
Not enough info on the topic to really know what they do in the end.

But I get where you're coming from. Everything on paper about military nodes makes em sound like the least desired node.

Since caravans are going to be very important to trade, I think it would be cool if military nodes could build roads to increase travel speed to any node they are in an alliance with.
To go the extra step, citizens of the military node get an armed NPC escort when they embark.

All roads lead to Rome.

Medrash1

@KHRONUS

KHRONUS wrote: »

It's all good. I can sense the broken English in your message haha. Your original post says "You have some nice and great ideas for a new mmorpg, but many game design idea are badly thought." You basically said to the developers that many of their designs are bad. This is going to anger a lot of us because AoC is creating VERY die hard fans with their content (me included).

I see your perspective on wanting to suggest but careful on your wording if you want to avoid making people respond with angry posts

Did you see the recent video about asmon reacting to the interview with the lead game designer of WoW? The whole time he speaks about great theories of game design and nice idea ... but the covenant feature it's a mess at the end. Becouse the starting idea is good but the development and design of it in the practical aspects of the game it's a mess ... i see many issues here too ... maybe i'm wrong and they will fix all the issues i have right now, anyway it still offer a wide variety of features and game ideas ... the problem is that too much can lead into a low quality ... the game will be awesome for sure, but it doesn't miss problems. Actually their game design is pretty good for the now low standards of gaming ... but in my eyes there are many things that can be improved...

winner909098

Medrash wrote: »

@KHRONUS

KHRONUS wrote: »

It's all good. I can sense the broken English in your message haha. Your original post says "You have some nice and great ideas for a new mmorpg, but many game design idea are badly thought." You basically said to the developers that many of their designs are bad. This is going to anger a lot of us because AoC is creating VERY die hard fans with their content (me included).

I see your perspective on wanting to suggest but careful on your wording if you want to avoid making people respond with angry posts

Did you see the recent video about asmon reacting to the interview with the lead game designer of WoW? The whole time he speaks about great theories of game design and nice idea ... but the covenant feature it's a mess at the end. Becouse the starting idea is good but the development and design of it in the practical aspects of the game it's a mess ... i see many issues here too ... maybe i'm wrong and they will fix all the issues i have right now, anyway it still offer a wide variety of features and game ideas ... the problem is that too much can lead into a low quality ... the game will be awesome for sure, but it doesn't miss problems. Actually their game design is pretty good for the now low standards of gaming ... but in my eyes there are many things that can be improved...

If you dont think that node types are good, then you dont have to play. But I know that the forums seem to have a balance of players who will choose each one. We dont even know of all of the benefits yet, so dont say it isn't balanced

Medrash1

@winner909098

I had my motivation to say that it will be unbalanced, so if you didn't understood that, cause of your stupidity or my bad explaining just ask that, i will be happy to explain it better.
I probably didn't had time to explain myself anyway , i will speak more of this in another post

Feel try to read and the comment if you like to.

The fact that i will or will not play the game is pointless , i'm speaking about the game features, not my will to play or not . Thz , try to be more coherent

daveywavey

On a totally unrelated topic - is there somewhere we can report trolls?

winner909098

Medrash wrote: »

@winner909098

I had my motivation to say that it will be unbalanced, so if you didn't understood that, cause of your stupidity or my bad explaining just ask that, i will be happy to explain it better.
I probably didn't had time to explain myself anyway , i will speak more of this in another post Feel try to read and the comment if you like to.

The fact that i will or will not play the game is pointless , i'm speaking about the game features, not my will to play or not . Thz , try to be more coherent

You are saying that it will be unbalanced, yet we only know of two of the four node types. I was just advising you to wait and see, as we dont know what will happen. For all we know, the nodes are imbalanced, or balanced.

daveywavey

winner909098 wrote: »

For all we know, the nodes are imbalanced, or balanced.

Schroedinger's Nodes!

Medrash1

@daveywavey

daveywavey wrote: »

winner909098 wrote: »

For all we know, the nodes are imbalanced, or balanced.

Schroedinger's Nodes!

Lol ya xD what a coincidence! I saw a video about the Schroedinger paradox and all this stupid science yeasterday and now xD

it's a cool way to say: " I don't know, i'm ignorant " ^^

What do you mean with unrelated content? Don't warry , it happens that someone makes some unnecesary comment that is unrelated to the topic xD a bit like you haha , with the shroedinger cat ... i know you hate cats

Vyraka

Medrash - please don't call people stupid and ignorant in the forums. People have been banned for that.

Warth

Vyraka wrote: »

Medrash - please call people stupid and ignorant in the forums. People have been banned for that.

Fixed it for you @Vyraka

Medrash1

@Warth @Vyraka

Vyraka wrote: »

Medrash - please don't call people stupid and ignorant in the forums. People have been banned for that.

I didn't made any insult to anybody, i didn't even call stupid anybody. What are you refering to? Pls explain to me. thz, maybe if you quote ...

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