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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
True, though it does depend quite on how the stealth works/looks. WoW for example imo has circumvented this quite well whereby there are only 2 states of stealth (1... fully invisible regardless .. 2. Shadowy but clearly visible regardless of settings) .. whereby it simply changes from state 1 to 2 depending on how close someone is in stealth, how good your stealthdetection is etc.
Works quite well compared to the more obvious "camouflage" most games use as stealth, which relies on people having either bad eyesight or using the same graphical settings as the devs... because we all know that (especially in games like FPS's), if a professional player sees even the slightest shimmer.. stealth is useless ;D
A being can not judge light if he has never seen it, neither can he judge darkness if he never has been it
Too much WoW stuff. Yuck
Personally I'm all for classes like Nightshield having abilities that provide group stealth, maybe lower levels require you to be immobilized, maybe higher levels increase what movement speed you can do. Something that's true mitigation as a Nightshield would be removal of targeting. I also love the concept of a placeable area of effect stealth that hides anyone inside it but allows enemies who go into it to see their foe again. Something akin to a one way mirror barrier, preventing ranged classes from safely using long range abilities for a short time and forcing them or melee players to get closer inside the bubble if they want to continue their attack on the same target(s). Maybe low level a small bubble that just hides whoever's inside, 2nd level make it larger area effect (this would in turn be a consequence to, giving more room to ranged classes to dodge), and third rank block any ranged abilities from the outside of the shield from entering. Things like group stealth would easily need a long cd and not too long duration so that it caters more towards group play, sieges, and the like over self use. To me these two concepts are perfect for a Nightshield in maintaining it being a tank that mitigates but using rogue's invisibility to "mitigate damage" through what players can/cannot target immediately.
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton
I imagine them working something like this:
Invisibility: For a short duration you become invisible. At low levels you are completely invisible when you are standing still but become a blur when you are moving, at higher levels you are completely invisible if you are moving a certain distance from someone but you start becoming a blur when you get closer. If you stand or move very close to another player, meaning at melee range literally on top the other player, you become a very noticeable blur. The effect ends if you use any offensive ability(even if you didn't hit something).
Camouflage: Using some materials you become part of the environment e.g. a tree or a bush, you move very slowly and get a bar that reduces as long as you move there is no time duration but if the bar hits zero or you use any kind of ability you remove your camouflage. Higher levels give you bigger bar and more things you can camouflage into.
Hide: You can hide somewhere, being a tree, a bush, a barrel whatever. You cannot move, the duration is very big(several minutes) if you do any movement or use an ability the skill ends.
Of course some other classes should be able to uncover you or see you. For instance a mage could use magic sight and see through your invisibility or camouflage, a ranger maybe can use some tracking ability and reveal your hiding spot and a cleric might use some reveal magic and despell your invisibility or destroy your camouflage. Also if you take a certain amount of damage all the abilities break and reveal you.
Guess it was fun.
I want to main bard to be, as always, a support. But I, and most of us, refuse to be a victim in a game with death penalties. Why would we let you abuse us? No way, man.
Stealth and perception of the stealthed is equal to player's level..
So example, all level 100 characters perception level = 100.. level 50 character = level 50 perception etc.. But a level 100 assassin uses stealth skill adds +25 to invis, making the character completely invisible to anyone with less than +125 perception.
But if a level 50 rogue comes up on a level 100 character, using their stealth, they're only +75 stealth (lvl50 +skill25), so to a level 100 character the level 50 is only partially invis but still stealthed.
Then any attacking/casting/dealing DMG, breaks the stealth.
Ideally I think whatever the stealth mechanic ends up being there should be some options for opponent to work around. And that option probably shouldn't be tied to total damage, because rogues should still be viably balanced dps in raiding.
One option is just that rogue has permanent true stealth but opponents also generally have some viable spacing options or cc's to counter (if they aren't already tanky or healy enough to be able to get through that initial burst/stun). Not every class matchup has to be evenly balanced, things are balanced more in group rather than solo. Still... if the opponent knows you are there they should be able to act in some small way to defend themselves or run away and not just be sitting ducks. Because pvp should be somewhat about skill not rock paper scissors on what class you have. When I was a necro in Rift one cool tactic i had was to spawn a bunch of pets and feign death (which detargeted them) and hope they got lost trying to retarget me in the pool of pets. It wasn't enough to give me an advantage in the matchup but it still let me buy some time to get back to allies.
Another option is to have the stealth mechanic be skill based in some way, like having to use shadows or having visibility within a certain range or outside of frontal vision. That way they still get the advantage... but only if they don't provoke suspicion and position smartly.
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton
I like this idea. I’ve never even considered the idea of a stealthed target only being partially visible when viewed in a the frontal cone of your character. What a neat concept. This gives both the target of the rogue, and the rogue itself, tools to work with surrounding the stealth skill.
I would add that it would be interesting if there was a certain attribute that contributed to stealth detection. Maybe intelligence (which seems like a primary stat for common targets of those who utilize stealth), wisdom, or an entirely separate stat synonymous with “stealth detection.” Perhaps it’s something you could train, related to your race and its natural abilities to see stealthed/hidden objects, or class specific enhancements. This would be similar to how passive detection might work in Dungeons and Dragons.
the frontal cone is a cool idea but I think it may lead to "twitchy" activity where players are constantly turning around very rapidly wherever they are going to check for stealthies. You see this kind of thing in fps sandbox games like rust where even when a player is looting they never stop moving, they constantly twitch back and forth to make it harder to get sniped, even if there are no known enemies around. If player direction is tied to your mouse players could easily incorporate this sort of rapid checking into their playstyle. In WoW people do this sort of movement in pvp by jumping, spinning, casting a spell in mid air, then turning around again before landing. this is a "skill-type" move that lets you cast spells on targets behind you without ever changing your direction of travel. I think that kind of skill related stuff is fine in combat, but if it became a standard for players anytime they're out in the world it would be very immersion breaking for me. Maybe I overestimate how far people will go to keep an edge in pvp though haha.
the frontal cone is a cool idea but I think it may lead to "twitchy" activity where players are constantly turning around very rapidly wherever they are going to check for stealthies. You see this kind of thing in fps sandbox games like rust where even when a player is looting they never stop moving, they constantly twitch back and forth to make it harder to get sniped, even if there are no known enemies around. If player direction is tied to your mouse players could easily incorporate this sort of rapid checking into their playstyle. In WoW people do this sort of movement in pvp by jumping, spinning, casting a spell in mid air, then turning around again before landing. this is a "skill-type" move that lets you cast spells on targets behind you without ever changing your direction of travel. I think that kind of skill related stuff is fine in combat, but if it became a standard for players anytime they're out in the world it would be very immersion breaking for me. Maybe I overestimate how far people will go to keep an edge in pvp though haha.
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Haha, I suppose you’re right, when you consider the immersion bit. I have a feeling that most players won’t be walking around all the time twitching, expecting a random rogue to gank them. Conversely, I do expect people to become twitchy upon noticing there is something camouflaged around them, or perhaps after having been ganked. But, speaking from an immersion point of view, that makes equally as much sense.
S
Ya it's hard to predict what players will or won't do. I've played rust with my little bro and he sits there and it's like he's on coke with his fingers never resting, but I play the game like "normal" without all the twitching and still enjoy it and don't feel like it's a huge disadvantage. At the same time jumping around all the time is a pretty standard player behavior in mmo's that is not really an immersive action but doesn't really bother me since I'm used to it.
Lol. Big true.
― Plato
*presses Stealth to hide from the incoming backlash*
― Plato
I wouldn't say "useless". You'd use Stealth to get into a good position, wait until an enemy has walked past you, and then hit them from the back, assassin style.
I very much rather prefer the any distance visual cues we have now than what you suggest
― Plato
Oh yeah, me too. I actually quite like the shimmer thing. I've been killed waaaay too many times by the totally invisible ganky types. Was just brainstorming ways to let them have their invisibility without it being overpowered.
― Plato
Therefore, I really like the devs approach with the "partial invisibility".
I assume tab target skills won't be able to hit someone in stealth while action and AoE skills will, or am I mistaken?
so I think stealth is just a combat mechanic atm, because people that dont pay attention to their surroundings wont see you even without stealth
― Plato