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Controller

WIll Controllers be availabe at the game?
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Comments

  • Pretty sure I've seen in a video that they will be. Dunno if it'll be at launch, though.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Do you mean a video game controller to play the game, or a specific playstile inside of the game?
    If the first: I think so.
    If second: Summoner maybe
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  • i mean a gamepad controller :D
  • in order to play the game with a gamepad
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Your looking at a max of about 30 abilities though. Not sure how your going to make it good to use a controller like that.
  • MMOs should never be designed to play on an console/controller much less a phone or tablet. Though Amazon might make their development cost back if they port NW to console lol. 3 abilities, action targeting it's primed for console.
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  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Your looking at a max of about 30 abilities though. Not sure how your going to make it good to use a controller like that.

    30 available abilities in your archetype. You won't spec into all of them.
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited November 2020
    Your looking at a max of about 30 abilities though. Not sure how your going to make it good to use a controller like that.

    30 available abilities in your archetype. You won't spec into all of them.

    You could. You just probably won't use all of them since you wouldn't be able to rank up the skills that you like.
    "The number of skills on the action bar will be contained (fewer than 30).[12]"
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skills

    As you increase the rank in a skill, it takes away from the max possible. Since you can have 3 ranks per skill, it looks like the total skills on the hotbar will range from about 10 to (fewer than) 30 depending on how much you rank up the skills that you take.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Not the way it is currently set up. You have limited skill points. You have to spend a minimum in each tier to advance to the next tier. From the end of May test that was released from NDA and playing the mage you have to take at least tier 2 in Fireball (10 sp) to unlock the next set of abilities. You unlock the ability to spec into three abilities there. Sure you could take all 3 at tier 1, but that won't get you to the set 3 abilities. You have to choose which you want to advance enough points in to get to the next. So while you could go wide and shallow, you will never unlock the highest tier abilities, thus not having access to those.

    Throw in the mechanic that they have repeatedly stated that you will only be able to go 75%/25% either tab/action in your selections, there are plenty of archetype abilities that won't populate your bar out of those available. There are controller mmos out there like ESO and FF14 that have managed to have controller setups with 16-24 options available.

    It is entirely doable, and will be seen. In every test I can talk about I have used a controller for movement and basic functions.
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member
    edited November 2020
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    MMOs should never be designed to play on an console/controller much less a phone or tablet.

    The fact they're allowing for controllers seems to suggest that you're wrong there. I'll never leave my mouse and keyboard, but I know there are players who prefer the controller. I don't see why they should be prevented from playing as they like. I know I'd kick up a fuss if someone tried to stop me using mouse and keyboard.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • mrwafflesmrwaffles Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    @TomatoLauncher I had a buddy in college use a controller for a bunch of stuff I would prefer a mouse and keyboard, but have you ever used a controller on a modern mmo? Just asking because I remember back on the PS2 playing FF11 and it being a terrible experience. So I'm curious how your experiences have been.
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  • I 've played the FFXIV with controller. Played mostly Bard and White Mage and to be honest i preferred it over the mouse and keyboard cause it was more convienient and more relaxing.Personal opionion though.I 've played mmos in the past with mouse and keyboard but i 've sticked with the gamepad the last 4 years.



  • I played WOW classic with a controller and I loved it. I played retail, neverwinter, ESO etc there all great with a controller. As for the 30 ability's thing, no one has a 30 button rotation especially when the hot bar only holds 13.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I 've played the FFXIV with controller. Played mostly Bard and White Mage and to be honest i preferred it over the mouse and keyboard cause it was more convienient and more relaxing.Personal opionion though.I 've played mmos in the past with mouse and keyboard but i 've sticked with the gamepad the last 4 years.



    while I agree FFXIV had great controller support but wasn't FFXIV not built around consoles and PC at the same time?
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  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited November 2020
    Not the way it is currently set up. You have limited skill points. You have to spend a minimum in each tier to advance to the next tier. From the end of May test that was released from NDA and playing the mage you have to take at least tier 2 in Fireball (10 sp) to unlock the next set of abilities. You unlock the ability to spec into three abilities there. Sure you could take all 3 at tier 1, but that won't get you to the set 3 abilities. You have to choose which you want to advance enough points in to get to the next. So while you could go wide and shallow, you will never unlock the highest tier abilities, thus not having access to those.

    Throw in the mechanic that they have repeatedly stated that you will only be able to go 75%/25% either tab/action in your selections, there are plenty of archetype abilities that won't populate your bar out of those available. There are controller mmos out there like ESO and FF14 that have managed to have controller setups with 16-24 options available.

    It is entirely doable, and will be seen. In every test I can talk about I have used a controller for movement and basic functions.

    Thank you for the explanation. I can't wait to get into Alpha :)
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Blair wrote: »
    I played WOW classic with a controller and I loved it. I played retail, neverwinter, ESO etc there all great with a controller. As for the 30 ability's thing, no one has a 30 button rotation especially when the hot bar only holds 13.

    We will be able to do more than 13.
    There will be an option to include multiple hotbars (action bars).[5][3]
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Action_bar
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Neverwinter on Xbox worked great with a controller but that was a very action-oriented game, and was clearly optimized for it. This game isn’t being designed for consoles.
     
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  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Your looking at a max of about 30 abilities though. Not sure how your going to make it good to use a controller like that.

    When you include all trigger and bumpers as modifiers controllers have easier access to far more hotkeys than a traditional mouse and keyboard setup. Not including MMO mice and Orbweaver like gamepads of course, but most people won't want to shell out the money for those.
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    MMOs should never be designed to play on an console/controller much less a phone or tablet. Though Amazon might make their development cost back if they port NW to console lol. 3 abilities, action targeting it's primed for console.

    I disagree.

    Whereas they don't necessarily need to be designed fully around using a controller, all modern games should take steps to be at least casually playable on controllers in order to include those who lack full use of their hands. Not everybody can use a mouse and keyboard and nothing is lost by the Devs ensuring those people have a way to interact w/ the game.
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    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Maezriel wrote: »
    I disagree.
    I disagree.

    Developers should develop the game and gameplay to be as they want it. At that point - and no sooner - they should look and see if that gameplay is compatible with a controller.

    If it is compatible, then they should go to the effort of making it work. If the gameplay is not compatible, they should not put that effort in.

    Basically, games shouldn't be designed around a need to have controller support - but should have it if it makes sense when the gameplay is developed.
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Noaani wrote: »
    Maezriel wrote: »
    I disagree.
    I disagree.

    Developers should develop the game and gameplay to be as they want it. At that point - and no sooner - they should look and see if that gameplay is compatible with a controller.

    If it is compatible, then they should go to the effort of making it work. If the gameplay is not compatible, they should not put that effort in.

    Basically, games shouldn't be designed around a need to have controller support - but should have it if it makes sense when the gameplay is developed.

    So basically ignore my entire comment about those who can't physically use a mouse and keyboard?

    I'm not saying to design controllers to be on par w/ M&K or even viable in competitive content...simply allow players to interact w/ the world and keybind abilities through a controller in order to include as many people as they can regardless of physical disabilities.

    Designing games to be inclusive to a wider playerbase should not be an afterthought.
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    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited November 2020
    Maezriel wrote: »
    So basically ignore my entire comment about those who can't physically use a mouse and keyboard?
    Yes, completely.

    If a game is enjoyable to people but the gameplay itself makes it not suited to people with a disability of some form, why should the develoeprs have to make that game less enjoyable?

    If we were talking about a large number of games, then I would agree that something does need to be done. However, we are not, we are talking about only a small number of games - as almost all games are simple enough to be easily played with a controller.

    Edit; as to basic functionality with a controller, that doesn't need developer support.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited November 2020
    Maezriel wrote: »
    When you include all trigger and bumpers as modifiers controllers have easier access to far more hotkeys than a traditional mouse and keyboard setup.
    I can't pass this up. A keyboard = all the commands in existence going through a computer.

    Also, using control, shift, and alt as modifiers, I could turn just the keys on the left hand of the keyboard into over 100 commands. That's just the keys immediately under my left hand. I guess the traditional mouse that you cite doesn't even matter at this point.

  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Noaani wrote: »
    Maezriel wrote: »
    So basically ignore my entire comment about those who can't physically use a mouse and keyboard?
    Yes, completely.

    If a game is enjoyable to people but the gameplay itself makes it not suited to people with a disability of some form, why should the develoeprs have to make that game less enjoyable?

    If we were talking about a large number of games, then I would agree that something does need to be done. However, we are not, we are talking about only a small number of games - as almost all games are simple enough to be easily played with a controller.

    Edit; as to basic functionality with a controller, that doesn't need developer support.

    Even WoW can be played w/ a controller through a third party addon w/ absolutely zero changes to it's gameplay. No one is talking implementing ESO/FF levels of development. No one has said the gameplay has to change...I quiet literally said it didn't three times now.

    You would lose nothing by Intrepid coding a basic level of controller interaction into the game and pretending otherwise to excuse excluding disabled people is just plain stupid.
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    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Maezriel wrote: »
    When you include all trigger and bumpers as modifiers controllers have easier access to far more hotkeys than a traditional mouse and keyboard setup.
    I can't pass this up. A keyboard = all the commands in existence going through a computer.

    Also, using control, shift, and alt as modifiers, I could turn just the keys on the left hand of the keyboard into over 100 commands. That's just the keys immediately under my left hand. I guess the traditional mouse that you cite doesn't even matter at this point.

    It depends on how modifiers are implemented for a controller. Keyboard might have a greater number of keys, but you're still generally limited to the reach of one hand. Whereas on a controller if you make not just each of the top triggers/buttons into a modifier but also allow combo-modifiers such as L2+R2 or L1+L2 to be individual modifiers then you have a ton of keybinds that's available in a far shorter reach.

    Doesn't help against the aim of a mouse...but I wasn't trying to argue that controllers are better, just not at as distinct a disadvantage as many put them.
    ZeFuP1X.png
    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Maezriel wrote: »
    Even WoW can be played w/ a controller through a third party addon w/ absolutely zero changes to it's gameplay.
    You realize WoW has the simplest gameplay of any MMO out there, right?

    I mean, it is possible to write a macro for some classes and participate in a number of raids using a single button.
    Maezriel wrote: »
    You would lose nothing by Intrepid coding a basic level of controller interaction into the game and pretending otherwise to excuse excluding disabled people is just plain stupid.
    I'm also not saying they shouldn't do it.

    What I am saying is they shouldn't specifically design the gameplay around the need for it, if the gameplay would be better if they did something that made it unfeasable for controllers to be used, then they shouldn't be prevented from making the gameplay better in order to implement controllers.

    I am also specifically saying they SHOULD implement controller support if - after the gameplay is developed - it makes sense to do so.

    Pick your battles a bit better.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited November 2020
    Maezriel wrote: »
    It depends on how modifiers are implemented for a controller. Keyboard might have a greater number of keys, but you're still generally limited to the reach of one hand.
    Did you just ignore what I said about it being under the left hand? Between the keys `-5 and down to z-b there are 21 keys that can be modified by cntrl, shift, and alt. I did miscount earlier at over 100 since I was only counting a single key modifier, but it's still 84 keys right next to the fingers of the left hand. I have also played games that allowed 2 modifiers such as shift+alt+key which would add an additional 64 keys at a total of 148 all still in the same area under the left hand.

    Personally, I don't mind if they put controllers in provided that it works well. But I'm always going to feel like like mouse and keyboard are better :wink:

  • Maezriel wrote: »
    allow players to interact w/ the world and keybind abilities through a controller in order to include as many people as they can regardless of physical disabilities.

    Designing games to be inclusive to a wider playerbase should not be an afterthought.

    100% agree.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Noaani wrote: »
    Maezriel wrote: »
    Even WoW can be played w/ a controller through a third party addon w/ absolutely zero changes to it's gameplay.
    You realize WoW has the simplest gameplay of any MMO out there, right?

    I mean, it is possible to write a macro for some classes and participate in a number of raids using a single button.
    Maezriel wrote: »
    You would lose nothing by Intrepid coding a basic level of controller interaction into the game and pretending otherwise to excuse excluding disabled people is just plain stupid.
    I'm also not saying they shouldn't do it.

    What I am saying is they shouldn't specifically design the gameplay around the need for it, if the gameplay would be better if they did something that made it unfeasable for controllers to be used, then they shouldn't be prevented from making the gameplay better in order to implement controllers.

    I am also specifically saying they SHOULD implement controller support if - after the gameplay is developed - it makes sense to do so.

    Pick your battles a bit better.

    Color blindness was brought up last stream. Should Intrepid wait until all the effects are finalized before considering colorblind options and controls?

    What about hearing? What if Intrepid felt audio queues were important to the game? Hell, many players aren't deaf but prefer to play w/ game sounds muted as they mindlessly grind w/ Netflix in the background...should we "wait until gameplay is finished" before considering not forcing audio queues?

    Or? Maybe it's better to have accessibility options in mind before spending months, if not years, finalizing something and then realizing you need to go back and shovel something new in.



    I'm not the one claiming disabled gamers should be an afterthought to my personal enjoyment so I'm quiet comfortable w/ this hill I'm on. I'm not the one who should pick a better fight here.
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    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • I really do hope they have a controller supported system. For ergonomic reasons. Playing pc games like this for hours at a time is terrible on my hands and a controller supported system is just better for me personally. It also feels smoother in games that are "action combat or hybrid action combat". I am 100% ok with mouse use windows and options menus, but game pad play is to me what will make or break my decision to make this my main game when it launches... hundreds if not thousands of dollars spent on its competitors in the past. I am pretty sure I fit the targeted audience for this game... Adult gamer who will pay to have the best gaming experience possible.
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