Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

Changing secondary class

Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited December 2020 in General Discussion
Hi all.

We know that you'll be able to change your secondary class and augments and that it won't be a quick or easy process.

So, my question to you is, how would YOU like to have this done? Or to put it another way, what do you think should be involved in changing a secondary class?

Very interest in reading what you guys come up with :)
volunteer_moderator.gif
«13

Comments

  • A few ideas come to mind:
    - have a master alchemist craft a Class Change Potion
    - complete a quest (has a 30 day cooldown upon completion)
    - Buy an item from a shop (expensive)
    EternalFliPSignature.png
    Eternal Guild
    ( Web | Discord )
  • I think a short quest to unlock each individual secondary, and then some kind of respec token to switch at an NPC in town.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I would say a quest line is the best thing to do in this case
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    I like the idea of needing to unlock each secondary class individually.

    From there, I like the idea of an item needing to be crafted (requiring the use of every gatherer, processor and crafting class). If it is hard enough to produce the item needed to respec, this could work really well.

    Failing that, I think a quest of some sort is needed.
  • Probably talk to a specific trainer. say if im switching from bard secondary to tank secretary, i talk to the tank trainer and then pay some money.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member
    edited November 2020
    Noaani wrote: »
    an item needing to be crafted (requiring the use of every gatherer, processor and crafting class)

    Ooooh, I like that.

    They had that sort of idea in one of the tier upgrades in a game called "Gothador", and you had to get certain items from different types of class. Worked well there, I can see it working here too.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Anything that honors the "not on the fly" goal.

    1) You have to find a group of people that want to change their class, be it guild or randoms, dare a challenging place, like ruins or evil monastery, reach the heart of that location after dealing with the lv X mobs. Find the NPC that offers that service over there.

    There can be 4 dungeons for players lv:
    20
    30
    40
    50 and under.

    The mobs in these special locations should offer 0 XP and 0 loot as to not make them a place where people hang out 24/7, thus making it a challenge. Not instanced dungeon.

    2) Kill one of these 10 raid bosses and bring proof to an NPC. (Hardcore method).

    3) An easy quest which will be very tedious and a bit of time consuming after a few times (the most boring method).

    4) Pilgrimage. You have to travel to a very distant NPC, 15 minutes away on a mount. Just talk to the NPC and done. Still, not on the fly.

    Whatever it is it has to take around 20 minutes to an hour.
  • CrosimCrosim Member
    edited November 2020
    I do think the idea of having to unlock a secondary class is pretty neat and using a player crafted item to make the change sounds great too.

    However I feel requiring components from every crafting class is a bit much. I feel like you should have multiple avenues to get a kind of item that allows you to swap, but it's maybe from a few crafters that make sense (Alchemy, enchanting, cooking) where you have some kind of consumable.

    I think there should also be a more expensive option that can be bought from NPC vendors, but as long as the player crafted version is far cheaper. I personally dislike the notion of a cooldown. If I get a free weekend and want to blow a stack of gold on trying out a lot of different specs, nothing should stop me from doing so.

    I wouldn't want to grind out a spec swapping mission half a dozen times just to experiment either.

    It feels fitting to the theme of AoC that the price should be one of economics and not one of time gating or repetitive quests.
  • I think it should be very hard to do and/or very expensive and limited amount of times.
    If it was for me I wouldnt allow secondary class change, never, just because it has to matter a lot. If you want to try another, make a new character.

    This in only my opinion, and i'll be happy with the team decision, but I would like it to be very limited.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Marcet wrote: »
    I think it should be very hard to do and/or very expensive and limited amount of times.
    If it was for me I wouldnt allow secondary class change, never, just because it has to matter a lot. If you want to try another, make a new character.

    This in only my opinion, and i'll be happy with the team decision, but I would like it to be very limited.

    If there were 15-20 distinct, olid class I would prefer that.
    But since there is only 1 Fighter with 8 flavours I think players that dont have access to testing should have a way find what they like.
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited November 2020
    I'd like the change to be lore driven!

    e.g. say our secondaries are given to us by the gods. Then revoking one archetype will anger some gods - thus they won't allow you to simply switch back whenever you want, and you must therefore complete a quest for redemption. (And so you change augments via quest)

    or another example:
    Say our secondaries are acquired by consuming certain items that attune our bodies to an archetype. So switching between secondaries means going "cold turkey" on one archetype to return to a generic state. And once you have returned to a generic state with no secondary, it is safe to consume the augment change. (so the change is limited by crafting a consumable and doing a "detox")
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • Cool idea: Changing an augment should be immediate with a 30-day cooldown. It should use an item set created by three separate artisan classes. HOWEVER, speccing out an augment and getting the skill points to focus on the player's wanted augment foci should take 12+ hours in separate quests.
  • Penguinos wrote: »
    Cool idea: Changing an augment should be immediate with a 30-day cooldown. It should use an item set created by three separate artisan classes. HOWEVER, speccing out an augment and getting the skill points to focus on the player's wanted augment foci should take 12+ hours in separate quests.

    It would be easier to just roll another character to try out multiple specs at that point xD
  • Crosim wrote: »
    Penguinos wrote: »
    Cool idea: Changing an augment should be immediate with a 30-day cooldown. It should use an item set created by three separate artisan classes. HOWEVER, speccing out an augment and getting the skill points to focus on the player's wanted augment foci should take 12+ hours in separate quests.

    It would be easier to just roll another character to try out multiple specs at that point xD

    You never know what future balance patches will bring to the table. No game is ever perfectly balanced and metas can shift from one spec to another.

    This is why some players, who already have max level characters, might choose to change classes rather than starting a new character, which would be a waste of time.
    EternalFliPSignature.png
    Eternal Guild
    ( Web | Discord )
  • FliP wrote: »
    Crosim wrote: »
    Penguinos wrote: »
    Cool idea: Changing an augment should be immediate with a 30-day cooldown. It should use an item set created by three separate artisan classes. HOWEVER, speccing out an augment and getting the skill points to focus on the player's wanted augment foci should take 12+ hours in separate quests.

    It would be easier to just roll another character to try out multiple specs at that point xD

    You never know what future balance patches will bring to the table. No game is ever perfectly balanced and metas can shift from one spec to another.

    This is why some players, who already have max level characters, might choose to change classes rather than starting a new character, which would be a waste of time.

    What if you are a main tank for a group? You are a Guardian. You have had some problems here and there with some threat. You know Knights deal a bit more damage with their augs so you give it a shot. The new extra damage for picking up threat quickly is nice, but your mitigation has suffered quite a bit more than you expected. So now you are just stuck with an unsatisfactory build for a month? That seems like quite a poor design choice, to me. The point I was making is that it would be quicker to level up another entire character, than to wait for a 30 day cooldown to be over.

    I personally feel like the process of swapping your secondary class should be a matter of crafting/gold sink. If I have a three day weekend pop up and know I can get a solid 30 hours of gameplay in and I want to spend the entire time watching movies/youtube while gathering, then it should be a calculated cost factor into deciding to swap my subclass to one thats more 'slippery' to try and avoid PvP. Weighing in the benefits of lost time traveling from being PKed and loss of looted resources vs the cost of wanting to respec two times.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Make it a quest, where you need specific ingredients and a certain amount of money to complete it.
    People could either buy all the things from other players or work for it.

    Additionally: Implement a grace period, where you can change freely between secondary classes after you reached lvl 25. Not everyone will know exactly what they want.
    roaaztC.gif
  • Fuppo HeadhunterFuppo Headhunter Moderator, Member, Alpha One
    You have to collect three cookies of power and combine them into the cookie tri force and then save the princess who rewards you with a secondary class change!! ......

    \o/
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • I think that depends on how dramatically the augment system changes your abilities and playstyle. If I can't effectively heal as a priest because of my secondary class choice without switching it to also be priest, then you should be able to do it within a reasonable amount of time (a few minutes). Resource-wise? Not sure.

    Curious what people think the cost of re-rolling augments within the same secondary class should be then?
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    You have to collect three cookies of power and combine them into the cookie tri force and then save the princess who rewards you with a secondary class change!! ......

    \o/

    With the number of cookies you give out.... :/
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    neuroguy wrote: »
    I think that depends on how dramatically the augment system changes your abilities and playstyle. If I can't effectively heal as a priest because of my secondary class choice without switching it to also be priest, then you should be able to do it within a reasonable amount of time (a few minutes). Resource-wise? Not sure.

    Curious what people think the cost of re-rolling augments within the same secondary class should be then?

    This sums up my thoughts pretty well.

    Questing as a healer is usually a massive pain in MMOs so whereas I might do a DPS hybrid for when I need to just go out and farm/quest I don't think switching back to be a healer/healer should be a massive process. Once you've unlocked it once you should be able to swap w/ a modest cost of some sort of resource, whether gold or something dedicated to Archetypes.
    ZeFuP1X.png
    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • edited December 2020
    While there are many excellent ideas here, I’m going to beg the devs to not let us change our secondaries too easily. If I have to experience some of the younger people I play with changing their secondaries every other day, I’m going to get frustrated and irritated. I know it’s a fine line—but that’s all the more reason I’m asking you to exercise caution with this particular part of the game.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited December 2020
    If I have to experience some of the younger people I play with changing their secondaries every other day, I’m going to get frustrated and irritated.
    You need a sign for your freehold that says, “Stay off my lawn!”
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • edited December 2020
    Atama wrote: »
    If I have to experience some of the younger people I play with changing their secondaries every other day, I’m going to get frustrated and irritated.
    You need a sign for your freehold that says, “Stay off my lawn!”



    Wait until you’ve played with some of my guild mates before you say that. They’re all incredible people, but things can get a bit . . . scattered at times. 😂
  • While there are many excellent ideas here, I’m going to beg the devs to not let us change our secondaries too easily. If I have to experience some of the younger people I play with changing their secondaries every other day, I’m going to get frustrated and irritated. I know it’s a fine line—but that’s all the more reason I’m asking you to exercise caution with this particular part of the game.

    Oh no! Are we only allowed to change secondaries before a certain age?!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • edited December 2020
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Oh no! Are we only allowed to change secondaries before a certain age?!


    NO! I was really just referring to the frequency of changes. I’m hoping they aren’t so rapid that some of the folks I play with are constantly redefining themselves and their group roles.

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited December 2020
    Atama wrote: »
    If I have to experience some of the younger people I play with changing their secondaries every other day, I’m going to get frustrated and irritated.
    You need a sign for your freehold that says, “Stay off my lawn!”

    I am way ahead of you

    terrifying-12-foot-tall-giant-skeleton-with-animated-lcd-eyes-6.jpg


    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Hi all.

    We know that you'll be able to change your secondary class and augments and that it won't be a quick or easy process.

    So, my question to you is, how would YOU like to have this done? Or to put it another way, what do you think should be involved in changing a secondary class?

    Very interest in reading what you guys come up with :)

    So I would have you do a questline to unlock the secondary class initially that takes say 1 hour of gameplay or so and then if you ever wanted to swap back into a secondary class that you have previously unlocked you would get another quest line. This other quest line is to "repent" or sharpen your rusted skills with the secondary class and should take around half the time the original quest took to complete. The quests should differ for each class as well, so a rogue would need to go disarm x amount of dungeon traps or a tank would have to do an npc escort quest. Little lore-friendly activities that get you in the mindset of the secondary class.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited December 2020
    While level 1-49: 1 change allowed per day to help narrow down your choice
    At level 50: 1 change allowed per month

    Cost: a ton of gold and a lengthy class-based quest
  • Loving the suggestions in here so far, especially the folks who went a more lore-driven route!

    Keep 'em coming frands! <3
    community_management.gif
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Ravudha wrote: »
    While level 1-49: 1 change allowed per day to help narrow down your choice
    At level 50: 1 change allowed per month

    Cost: a ton of gold and a lengthy class-based quest

    I'm not a fan of hard limits like this.

    There are likely to be many things that change once we hit the level cap. Item progression will change, we will dedicate more time to getting augments from non-class paths, not to mention that we don't have access to the full class until the level cap.

    To me, if someone are ds hoursor even days working through all these avenues to get various augments, they should be able to swap out second dairy classes to try them out.

    Not necessarily at will, but if a quest to change secondary class takes 2 hours, a player should then be able to go out and do that quest again right away - if they want to.

    The limit should be in either how much time it takes to change, or how much it costs - not some arbitrary timer.
Sign In or Register to comment.