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Changing secondary class

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Comments

  • I don't tend to change my spec much. I choose something that is both appealing to me in term of gameplay and versatile and then stick with it for most, if not all, of that character's life. The way I see it, if the devs have done their job right, most specializations should be viable, not optimal in all situations, but viable.

    If the players are required to change specs all the time to be viable, something is wrong. The classes should probably have no specializations but rather have all the skills instead. The quest for optimization will lead to a meta build and almost everyone will be the same anyway.

    I'm not saying the sub class should be locked once picked. Only that it shouldn't be something changeable on the fly, between combat.
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  • DebaseDebase Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I like the idea of a craftable house item to:
    1. Make housing more meaningful
    2. Helps crafters
    3. Make towns more visited
    4. Prevent swapping in the field to counter a specific opponent (choices matter)

    EQ2 had a mirror where you could save a spec, something like that makes some sense to me.
  • consultantconsultant Member
    edited December 2020
    This is a time sink right? If it is not going to be easy. Plus lets say there is not tank around to you decide to go tank archetype to tank how long is that going to take. Makes class fell like being stuck playing only one role unless archeytypes are going to have minor impacts on classes so as not to allow them to tank.

    Maybe the intent is not to have people changing it all the time so that they are constantly changing specs to suite whatever situation.

    The problem with quests and things that take up considerable time is that well the Player may want to change set ups or Archetypoes to try them out or just because they want quite frequently.

    Maybe something like ounce you enter a dungeoun or raid then you have to finish that dungeoun or raid with that archetype and or allowed to change ounce while doing dungeouns not sure how this would work with open world dungeouns.

    I find this type of mechanic to be a chore cause well I really like testing out different setups in live dugeouns and raids. Plus PvPers in general change their set ups to match situation like map or comp or playstyle. For exaample the Tank archetype may allow you to play more aggressively and attack more. Rather than doing all dps set up and have to be extra careful.

    Time Sink and a chore. Yes you can make fun and interesting but after certain number of times it becomes a chore. I mean if you only plan to change archetype like ounce a week or more than i guess it is ok.

    The original post said change not get secondary archetype if you go back in forth between lets say your two or three playstyles that are associtate with those archetypes then well it is a chore.

  • LeiloniLeiloni Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2020
    consultant wrote: »
    This is a time sink right? If it is not going to be easy. Plus lets say there is not tank around to you decide to go tank archetype to tank how long is that going to take. Makes class fell like being stuck playing only one role unless archeytypes are going to have minor impacts on classes so as not to allow them to tank.re.

    But you are stuck playing one role. Your primary class determines your role and that doesn't change. Your secondary class and augments help define how you're going to perform that role.

    Allowing people to frequently and easily change secondary class doesn't change that they're a tank - it would just allow them to min/max tanking and have the perfect setup for solo PvE, group PvE, group PvP, etc. you get the idea (which personally I think is an awful idea - it ruins other games and we don't need to let it ruin this one).

  • Sugma will choose whatever class he so wants to be. there is no controlling Sugma he does as he wishes, this is a warning.
  • I think if someone wants to change their secondary class there should be a quest or some type of setback because I wouldn't want people changing their secondary class quickly under circumstances when they are being hunted, it would cause confusion and eventually become a strategy that is meta. People will spend time learning multiple secondary classes so they can switch at will. Once that happens it will be 10 times harder to prepare for a battle against them because you won't know what to expect. Make it difficult to change your secondary class, or maybe even make it economy based to where it's an extremely expensive item that you need to buy and when you buy it you can unlock a quest that you need to complete so you can change your secondary class.
  • I would wish, if it is not so easy to change the secondary class.
    the decision which secondary class to choose should be carefully considered.
    i would find it very unsatisfactory if you can choose another secondary class several times in a very short time.
    changing the second class should involve a certain amount of effort.
    Furthermore, I think it's important that the effort should be adapted to the level of the character. (higher level = more gold / resources, harder quest / mobs, etc.)

    i would be very happy if the change in the secondary class is linked to the lore.
    the different gods could for example be patrons of different classes and professions.
    for the change of the second class a quest could be necessary, which has to be done for the god / temple of god (for whom god is the patron saint of the second class) so that he is happy to accept the change.
    Furthermore, an offering to god might be necessary, which must be established with the profession for which the same god is patron saint. the required level of the profession should not be too low.
    the resources needed to make the sacrificial gift should be either very many easy-to-collect resources or few hard-to-collect resources.
    gold should also play a role. gold could, for example, be needed to make the offering or be given as a donation to the temple of the respective god.
    the amount of gold you need should be level dependent, as you get gold faster with higher levels.

    Example:

    God X is the patron saint of class Y and profession Z
    now a player would like to change his secondary class to class Y.
    To do this, he has to do a quest for god X / the temple of god X to make the god / temple good-natured so that the change can be accepted.
    In addition, the player must make an offering that can only be made with the Z profession.
    if the player does not have his profession Z at the necessary level, this gift must be acquired by another player.
    Once the quest has been completed and the offering has been sacrificed, god X / temple of god X sees you as worthy of the change in the second class. (what happens then e.g. with some ceremony)

    Example end.

    the method I have described to change the secondary class certainly requires a little time.
    But as I said, the selection of the second class should be carefully considered.
    But since I understand that you might want to try out the different classes, I think you should be able to do so when you first choose the second class with level 25.

    my idea:
    if you get the opportunity to choose your secondary class at level 25, you have to go to the temple of god, who is the patron saint of the primary class you have. this temple has a kind of training camp in which you can test the various secondary classes.
    Here you have unlimited time to test the various skills and other changes made through the various secondary classes and to see which selection is the right one for you.
    once you have made a decision and leave the training camp, there may be some ceremony or something to finish the selection of the second class.
    From this point on, the effort to change your secondary class increases to the things described above.

    the whole thing could also be done with different organizations instead of gods / temples.
    Example:
    a player with the primary class Mage wants to choose his second class (for the first time at level 25). for this he has to go to the magicians guild (organization) and there in a kind of training camp. (testing of the various secondary classes)
    if the same player later wants to change his secondary class to rouge, for example, he has to go to the assasins guild (organization) and complete quests there.
    these quests could be as extensive as the quests / offerings described above for the variant with the gods.

    that's it for my idea. hope some like it. like to use some of this in your own ideas and improve the whole thing even more;)
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  • I think this should be introduced early in the game, so that there is a longer process towards achieving this at hitting level 25, or close to it. Maybe starting from level 10, you pick the class you first want to learn, and through the levels and progression through the Node system you open up new quests that relates to a line of quests to get to the point where you have learnt X class. Each class would have its own path, that directly relates to the class in question.

    The quest line could be something like:
    • Bards have to learn how to support others and to help people. The quest line is mostly about this. Help X to do Y, and as you go you learn different "Powerful words" that at the end gives you the full sentence that you have to say in front of some magical well or something along those lines.
    • Rogues have to learn how to be stealthy, how to utilize the environment to blend in. So the quest line gives missions to maybe sneak in a high level dungeon to get to a chest and back out again while not being seen.

    Just logical questlines that fits each class. At level 25 you are close to it, and have to do one final more difficult task. To open the ability to respec, you have to repeat the process, and go through the quest lines to achieve the ability to "transfer" to them through experience and knowledge in how to "become" something else. But as I started with, I like if this opens as Nodes grow. You need Node level 1 for this, and level 2 for that etc.
  • Hi all.

    We know that you'll be able to change your secondary class and augments and that it won't be a quick or easy process.

    So, my question to you is, how would YOU like to have this done? Or to put it another way, what do you think should be involved in changing a secondary class?

    Very interest in reading what you guys come up with :)

    Hmmm good question. I don't feel like you should be able to swap it out indefinitely out in the field. I'd say maybe you can swap your second classis freely at any time you wish as long as you're in an area where you're a citizen, but maybe if you're out on the road or in a dungeon you can do it once ever couple of hours.
  • Great question!
    To acquire a new secondary archetype, regardless of whether it is the first time or subsequent changes:
    I like the idea of a training schedule taking a period of time (RL=1 week?) interspersed with new secondary archetype related quests at an appropriate node NPC. The quests would ideally need to promote the agenda of that archetype. Collecting resources to make armor for a Tank, spell books for a Mage, etc. It could be based at an appropriate node building, but I haven't checked if they would exist before Metropolis level and I wouldn't want to make it too difficult. I like the idea that you might have to travel to the nearest town or city to get the required training.
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  • I don't think specific sub-class devoted NPC's should be a thing, a quest for the change may be bearable, but a centralized clerical NPC located in a church or something similar that serves to help us "realign" ourselves would be most preferred. They did say that religion would play a semi-significant role in the game, maybe only high tier nodes with completely upgraded churches/religious buildings would enable the change of your sub-class? Hm.
  • Leiloni wrote: »
    consultant wrote: »
    This is a time sink right? If it is not going to be easy. Plus lets say there is not tank around to you decide to go tank archetype to tank how long is that going to take. Makes class fell like being stuck playing only one role unless archeytypes are going to have minor impacts on classes so as not to allow them to tank.re.

    But you are stuck playing one role. Your primary class determines your role and that doesn't change. Your secondary class and augments help define how you're going to perform that role.

    Allowing people to frequently and easily change secondary class doesn't change that they're a tank - it would just allow them to min/max tanking and have the perfect setup for solo PvE, group PvE, group PvP, etc. you get the idea (which personally I think is an awful idea - it ruins other games and we don't need to let it ruin this one).

    Is that what Intrepid Studios Indicated or do you jus think that is the way it is cause it looks that way? We have had huge threads on this. But no matter it is still a time sink.
  • The Problem I see here is, that if you are the main tank of a guild for big raids, and it is needed for you to swap secondary class because of some sort of threat problem or some sort of resistances to a certain element, you can't afford to lose so much time.
    I think a complete swap of secondary class should be hard or a matter of group content. I like the idea of a traveling NPC which has to be found first. And there is some hints to get by talking to other NPCs, where you last talked to him.
    But I think there should be a way to test combinations for a few hours maybe. Best would be a potion that gives 2 hours Augments of a defined secondary class.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member, Alpha Two
    consultant wrote: »
    Leiloni wrote: »
    consultant wrote: »
    This is a time sink right? If it is not going to be easy. Plus lets say there is not tank around to you decide to go tank archetype to tank how long is that going to take. Makes class fell like being stuck playing only one role unless archeytypes are going to have minor impacts on classes so as not to allow them to tank.re.

    But you are stuck playing one role. Your primary class determines your role and that doesn't change. Your secondary class and augments help define how you're going to perform that role.

    Allowing people to frequently and easily change secondary class doesn't change that they're a tank - it would just allow them to min/max tanking and have the perfect setup for solo PvE, group PvE, group PvP, etc. you get the idea (which personally I think is an awful idea - it ruins other games and we don't need to let it ruin this one).

    Is that what Intrepid Studios Indicated or do you jus think that is the way it is cause it looks that way? We have had huge threads on this. But no matter it is still a time sink.

    Yes that is what Intrepid Studios indicated. There's a good summary of the system here to help understand it - https://www.ashes101.com/classes

  • I liked how ARK had the mindwipe tonic to respec. Although I don't know if that would work in this game. Might be too easy, especially if they were available on the AH. I think it needs to be something that is relatively expensive so that players can't be swapping all the time though.
  • I can guess how most will feel about this proposition...

    Since you get your secondary class at level 25, what about being deleveled to that level if you change your sub class?

    Want to change the ways you do things, got to learn the new ways! No free experience.

    A bit to harsh?
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Percimes wrote: »
    I can guess how most will feel about this proposition...

    Since you get your secondary class at level 25, what about being deleveled to that level if you change your sub class?

    Want to change the ways you do things, got to learn the new ways! No free experience.

    A bit to harsh?

    It's an interesting thought although I think dropping down to 25 would be a bit too harsh.
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @Wandering Mist
    What if you have accelerated exp gain up to whatever exp you had before you switched?

    Could be an interesting way for high end players to interact with new level 25s?
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  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    Percimes wrote: »
    I can guess how most will feel about this proposition...

    Since you get your secondary class at level 25, what about being deleveled to that level if you change your sub class?

    Want to change the ways you do things, got to learn the new ways! No free experience.

    A bit to harsh?

    Well this is basically what they did in archeage but it was slightly different. Basically each class had it's own level and needed to be leveled up individually. I cant remember exactly how it affected your actual level when you had one class at full and one at a lower level, but I assume it was averaged.
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  • Do you guys think a change of sub class will require a new set of gear? Because of the stats.

    If your sub class gains more from a stat than a different sub class, being able to change your sub class fast means you'll need to carry another set (or at least some items) with the other stats. So to maximize effectiveness to the circumstances, as some want this feature to be, may not be as easy it seems at first.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2020
    Percimes wrote: »
    Do you guys think a change of sub class will require a new set of gear? Because of the stats.

    If your sub class gains more from a stat than a different sub class, being able to change your sub class fast means you'll need to carry another set (or at least some items) with the other stats. So to maximize effectiveness to the circumstances, as some want this feature to be, may not be as easy it seems at first.

    We do know that gear types should be class agnostic, in that any class can use any kind of gear. So tanks could run around in cloth armor, mages can have two-handed swords, and so on.

    But I don’t recall any discussion of whether specific pieces of gear might get bonuses from certain classes, or might be restricted by class. So a mage might be able to use any sword but maybe the Nightblade was designed for rogues. I don’t think we know that yet.

    Seeing how Intrepid likes to do things, what I find plausible is that certain pieces of gear might offer augments that only make sense to certain roles. The aforementioned “Nightblade” might enhance stealth in such a way that it’s a waste for someone without stealth abilities. So while anyone can use it, only someone who has rogue abilities will take full advantage. Again, this is 100% speculation from me based on no evidence at all.
     
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