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Which loot system do you prefer for group content?
Hakaiju
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
Alpha 1 is right around the corner so i would like to discuss one of the most game defining systems in a MMORPG - the loot system. For people new to the genre here is a small explanation of all possible looting rules that i know. I will add some pros and cons to each system if i have some time or if someone has good arguments for/against each system.
Master Loot: The party/raid lead is in charge of all loot and can decide which items go to whom.
Pros:
No random distribution
Enables discussion
Cons:
Exploitable if wrong person is the leader
Personal favors play a big roll
Dice Roll: This is often coupled with the Master Loot system: Each person who wants to have a specific item rolls a dice from 1 to 100. The highest roll wins the item.
Pros:
No tension between party members
Cons:
Not everyone should roll at every item (greed/need)
If unlucky, you dont get any items for a long time
Highest Bid: Each dropped item has its own auction between all party members. The item goes to the person who bids the most gold on it, the gold is automatically distributed to all other party members.
Pros:
Greedy people need a lot of money
If a rare item drops, everyone gets gold
Itemvalue is relevant
Cons:
The rich get most items
People who dont need the item might bid so you have to pay more
Free Loot: The items is not protected by any system and can be looted by every party member.
Pros:
Builds a lot of trust if done correctly
Cons:
Possibel to create a lot of tension between party members
Ninja looter
Personal Loot: Items will be automatically distributed to every party member, without any social interaction.
Pros:
No tension between party members
Cons:
No social interaction between party members
Luck plays a big role
Master Loot: The party/raid lead is in charge of all loot and can decide which items go to whom.
Pros:
No random distribution
Enables discussion
Cons:
Exploitable if wrong person is the leader
Personal favors play a big roll
Dice Roll: This is often coupled with the Master Loot system: Each person who wants to have a specific item rolls a dice from 1 to 100. The highest roll wins the item.
Pros:
No tension between party members
Cons:
Not everyone should roll at every item (greed/need)
If unlucky, you dont get any items for a long time
Highest Bid: Each dropped item has its own auction between all party members. The item goes to the person who bids the most gold on it, the gold is automatically distributed to all other party members.
Pros:
Greedy people need a lot of money
If a rare item drops, everyone gets gold
Itemvalue is relevant
Cons:
The rich get most items
People who dont need the item might bid so you have to pay more
Free Loot: The items is not protected by any system and can be looted by every party member.
Pros:
Builds a lot of trust if done correctly
Cons:
Possibel to create a lot of tension between party members
Ninja looter
Personal Loot: Items will be automatically distributed to every party member, without any social interaction.
Pros:
No tension between party members
Cons:
No social interaction between party members
Luck plays a big role
2
Comments
Or on strawpoll: https://strawpoll.com/qsuuj9ko5
Need/Greed is an amazing mechanic for random groups. Need it if you need it. Greed for profits if you don't. If you need on something because you are greedy.....get ready to be removed from the group or blacklisted on the server.
I haven't played with the highest bid but I have been told about it. I don't think I like it as this is something that might inflate gold in general. Gold should have value IMO. We get enough inflation in real life.
Dice rolls are fun but I feel it is broken. I apparently play with rigged dice and win all the good stuff as some of my past guild members would suggest haha.
I will always favor master looter but master looter with an internal guild system in place. ML with a random group is stupid. People are greedy over 1's and 0's. ML with a good guild and good leadership will have everything organized PRIOR to raiding. In my case, each class in my guild is managed by a class officer. When specific best in slot items drop, I am told by 1 of 8 different people where the item goes (and to who) removing any personal preference from the ML in question. If there are ever any issues (which is rare since we are all here to have fun and loot will flow freely when we are clearing content and enjoying ourselves) then I have a discussion with the players/officers and make the decision from there. Usually it ends up going "For now we are going to give it to X player because X reason that benefits the guild as a whole. Because of this, you will be given priority on the next item you are after". Clean, professional, respectful. How it should always be.
Keep it for Coop LFR RPGs like WoW
Im curious why this would inflate gold? Wouldnt it just distribute all gold more evenly? Inflation happens with every loot system though, because you need a big gold sink (gear upgrade, trade texas etc.) to get gold out of the system.
I dont believe that's how inflation works. Gold isn't generated randomly for players to spend in the bidding system, they still have to go out and earn all that beforehand.
What exactly is round robin? I guess its some sort of point system where you get points if you didnt get items in previous raids/dungeons? Wouldnt that be realized by having a Master Looter?
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Master loot always ends up biased (intentionally or otherwise), as is the nature of humans. RNG is always unbiased, as is the nature of machines.
Everyone gets a drop in turn, cycling round until each player has something, then starts again. Means nobody leaves empty-handed.
Wouldnt that benefit the person at the start of the cylce? If you stop running raid/dungeon/farm before the cycle is closed its also unfair. For example a dungeon with 3 bosses, each boss drops one good item, but your party has 6 people, how would this cycling work? I see how you might manage it with a group of friends or your guild, but with randoms this doesnt really work (at least the way i understand it)
I'd suggest that yours wouldn't "work" either. They all have cons, as you yourself pointed out.
Master Loot
You've joined a group, and unknown to you, the party leader is either an arse or has joined with some of their friends. You think you're getting one of those 3 boss drops?
Dice Roll
You could play through a dungeon for hours and get nothing, regardless of who's in your group.
Highest Bid
This only favours the players who have the most gold. Everyone else is screwed. Again, you think you're getting those boss drops? There's always someone with more money than you.
Free Loot
This one's just crap, so won't waste my time on it!
The only one that guarantees you some sort of return on your playtime is the Personal Loot one, but that seems to have hit a lot of negativity already.
Actually, highest bid helps everyone, because then even if your fucked for not being rich enough, you do leave the run a couple hundred to a couple thousand gold richer, depending on what drops. (I should know I ran the GDKP system on a WoW Classic server for a year. some runs ended with each person getting 1.3 - 1.5k gold) Additionally GDKP (highest bid auction runs) are actually better than guild runs in some ways in the sense that you don't have to deal with guild politics, you down content, and you get to make gold for your time, It also allows high end players with completed kits stay involved in the community by essentially becoming a Merc for Hire. Additionally, the person/people buying everything are either A. gonna run out of gold at some point giving you time to stock up, or B gonna get all the gear at some point so they will stop bidding. +C if they are a mega rich player and you know that, you can risk your gold and upbid them. Its literally a Win-Win system.
And, how many runs of the same dungeon is it going to take for that to happen...?
Free loot is a very valuable tool for guilds/groups to split rewards fairly when doing content. The method is that you have one person that picks up everything and splits it all when you are done farming group mobs.
The treasurer is normally a trusted character with large bags and carrying capacity, normally a support character. In Aion we always had a chanter with max bags looting for us so we did not have to think about loot.
It is something that is very useful and necessary. It should be in the game.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Well, they were asking about how loot would work with randoms, and in that scenario, Free Loot would be a poor choice, so i didn't bother.
To be clear the OP only said group content, they did not specify whether it was with random players or friends. This is why I would use need vs greed or bidding for pug groups but masterloot for guild content.
In their very first post, yes, that's correct.
But not in this bit:
"I see how you might manage it with a group of friends or your guild, but with randoms this doesnt really work (at least the way i understand it)"
Well I can tell you for sure that personal loot is a great way to inflate the economy and can still be exploited heavily as most items can be traded unlike world if warcraft.
As for round Robin they have already told you the downside. The reason why dice rolls are good for random players is because you leave it up to chance, with a social understanding that players will only need on items they actually need or risk getting kicked from the group and possibly killed.
The bidding system though could be the hidden gem among these options, and if it works correctly I could see this being one of the prime loot rule choices for both randoms and guilds. Think about it, you dont even have to bid at all and can join these groups to gain a cut of extra gold.
Edit: I just realized the dice roll the op suggested and need vs greed are different. I would rather have a need vs greed system than a straight roll for each item.
Yeah, that's why I was wondering how a random dice roll would be beneficial to anyone who has as bad in-game RNG as I do!
Right there with you...
People can pay to start rolling and the one who wins the roll gets the item. All those that also rolled but didnt get it get part of the winners DKP divided by the number of participants.
@davewavey Well for perspective when the first GDKP run of BWL (this is after having around 1000 people in the discord server at this point) when the first Drake Fang Talisman dropped it sold for 10k gold and that person didnt buy another piece of gear for about 4 weeks I think, although I do remember him being online 24/7 farming in order to get his gold back up to snuff. so for the non-hardcore player probably takes 3 months to get that amount of gold back. By the time AQ came out the price had dropped to about 5k which is much more reasonable for a All of Classic Tank/Melee DPS BiS. then again when the Healing trinket for aq 40 Scarab Brooch dropped that sold for 40k gold, for perspective thats like almost 6 months of farming and grinding to get that but it worth it since that particular healing trinket is BiS till the end of Wrath of the Lich King because it stacks, is percentage based, scales with your gear and works with the Ulduar legendary weapon.
TLDR, depending on the item, a long ass time.
For guild raids ... I don't really remember much other than my PTSD for dkp system from the vanilla wow days.
We used a combination of dice rolls & round robin for FF14 raids, was working ok.
He makes a good point. I've never realized how much interaction we must be losing due to a random personal loot system. But I've only ever experienced that system so I yearn for something new. Personally, I would like to see the Master Loot system implemented.
But, why should another player get the power to decide what drops I get in the same dungeon? I'd never use it myself, cos I'd end up with nothing...!