Stealth in Ashes MegaThread

fathergoose

Imagine stealth being a skill-based utility with counterplay that isn't just guessing instead of a crutch to freely open on unsuspecting targets. Rogues might actually have to try in the open world.

neuroguy

You were bummed that STEALTH is not INVISIBILITY? I mean, I'm also bummed apples don't taste like mangos but that's because they are different things entirely. I don't know which game made these two equivalent but in most stealth games you play, you go unnoticed IF you are good at hiding, I haven't played many stealth games where I'm straight up invisible, would take away from the whole feel and concept, don't you think?

It should indeed be the case that stealth can be seen by the keen eye. If you put someone on alert while you are "stealth" in an empty field of grass, they should be able to find you. A part of being stealthy is being opportunistic and knowing when you are less likely to be noticed or catching someone unaware.

N0T

I should remind you all clever people that this game has third person view so the very shown camouflage like stealth propose will not give a first melee hit to NO ROUGE.

Also I would like to let know to all people here that mostly what rouge lovers like is the ability to STALK aka go around sneaking unseen unless THEY CHOOSE to start a fight unless they go to close and reveal themselves... SO basically a perma STEALTH/CAMOUFLAGE ability which breaks on offensive skills or spell casting or getting hit by damage will grant NO SUCH THING TO OP TO NOOOOOOO ROOOOOUGE.

THIS IS NOT WOW, and the owner creator of this shit made this BECAUSE of the hate to the multiple stupidities proposed on all other mmos.

N0T

I should remind you all clever people that this game has third person view so the very shown camouflage like stealth propose will not give a first melee hit to NO ROUGE.

Also I would like to let know to all people here that mostly what rouge lovers like is the ability to STALK aka go around sneaking unseen unless THEY CHOOSE to start a fight unless they go to close and reveal themselves... SO basically a perma STEALTH/CAMOUFLAGE ability which breaks on offensive skills or spell casting or getting hit by damage will grant NO SUCH THING TO OP TO NOOOOOOO ROOOOOUGE.

THIS IS NOT WOW, and the owner creator of this shit made this BECAUSE of the hate to the multiple stupidities proposed on all other mmos.

N0T

I should remind you all clever people that this game has third person view so the very shown camouflage like stealth propose will not give a first melee hit to NO ROUGE.

Also I would like to let know to all people here that mostly what rouge lovers like is the ability to STALK aka go around sneaking unseen unless THEY CHOOSE to start a fight unless they go to close and reveal themselves... SO basically a perma STEALTH/CAMOUFLAGE ability which breaks on offensive skills or spell casting or getting hit by damage will grant NO SUCH THING TO OP TO NOOOOOOO ROOOOOUGE.

THIS IS NOT WOW, and the owner creator of this shit made this BECAUSE of the hate to the multiple stupidities proposed on all other mmos.

daveywavey

N0T wrote: »

I should remind you all clever people that this game has third person view so the very shown camouflage like stealth propose will not give a first melee hit to NO ROUGE.

Also I would like to let know to all people here that mostly what rouge lovers like is the ability to STALK aka go around sneaking unseen unless THEY CHOOSE to start a fight unless they go to close and reveal themselves... SO basically a perma STEALTH/CAMOUFLAGE ability which breaks on offensive skills or spell casting or getting hit by damage will grant NO SUCH THING TO OP TO NOOOOOOO ROOOOOUGE.

THIS IS NOT WOW, and the owner creator of this shit made this BECAUSE of the hate to the multiple stupidities proposed on all other mmos.

So, you don't want any stealth at all in Ashes Of Creation?

daveywavey

N0T wrote: »

I should remind you all clever people that this game has third person view so the very shown camouflage like stealth propose will not give a first melee hit to NO ROUGE.

Also I would like to let know to all people here that mostly what rouge lovers like is the ability to STALK aka go around sneaking unseen unless THEY CHOOSE to start a fight unless they go to close and reveal themselves... SO basically a perma STEALTH/CAMOUFLAGE ability which breaks on offensive skills or spell casting or getting hit by damage will grant NO SUCH THING TO OP TO NOOOOOOO ROOOOOUGE.

THIS IS NOT WOW, and the owner creator of this shit made this BECAUSE of the hate to the multiple stupidities proposed on all other mmos.

So, you want full stealth in Ashes Of Creation?

Vhaeyne

Sneaking is not invisibility. Stealth should not be inevitability. I think old school MMOs only did that because it was a easy toggle to program.

I always thought the best way to handle this mechanic would have the character enter a state where they move at 75% speed, make no noise, and other characters cant see them unless they are in direct line of sight from a 90 degree cone of vision based on what why the characters player model is facing.

That way they can actually sneak up on people, but like real life you would only be able to do it when people are not looking. It would require that you look at what way people are facing.

TheHiddenDaggerInn

Sounds like the OP has never played stealth, and been killed by it a it much and is pretty salty. Stealth has been around LONG before WoW, an has a pretty large group of people who like to play stealthers. I do understand your concern, there is a fine balance in not beaing able to 1 shot people.

A opener that does maybe 1/4 of your health for the trouble of sneaking up to you would not be game breaking as after their stealth is gone they're just a leather wearer with light weapons,

No different than a mage that blasts you from across the map with a fireball.

Stealth is a VERY important part of scouting, pvp caravans, PvP targets, Scouting for your node. Knowing where people are is going to be huge, and the people who do it best will benefit from that.

Not every encounter is going to be a fair fight, you won't get tapped on the shoulder and have someone say " Please sir may I hit you when you're ready"

The unpredictablity is what makes it fun, and I'm sure there will be some classes with stealth countering, so make 1 of them or run with them and you will be fine. Being a good tealther reuires TONS of patience if the game is designed correctly.

BlackBrony

There is no one shot combo in AoC. There are diminishing returns on CC in AoC.
So a rogue won't stun lock you and kill you in PvP.

That is not fun. I couldn't care less if you feel that's what makes rogues, it's just not fun.

So that won't happen in AoC

Glory

I hope stealth isn't permanent. I don't mind stealth at all but it needs counter play. Give invisibility something like a 30 second duration and a minute cool down. This at least gives your opponent a way of "waiting you out" or "finding you."

Michael

I don't think the stealth will be incredibly over powered. However, they are not necessarily balancing for 1v1. So if you are alone in the woods fighting an enemy and a Duelist or Assassin in stealth comes up behind you it would only make sense for you to be Assassinated successfully assuming they are at your level.

Dygz

Ashes is an RPG; not an FPS.

Damokles

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes is an RPG; not an FPS.

Best comment so far.

LieutenantToast

Damokles wrote: »

Medrash wrote: »

Haven't you heard that a tank or warrior with the rougue augment can become invisible when charging? So enjoy that!! ^^ Imagine a mage blinking away with the steath augment xD OP haha . Mage + rogue is OP+OP.
.

Where did you hear that? Would be new to me....

Sounds like that bit came from a previous live stream where we shared some possibilities for how choosing Rogue as your secondary might impact those particular skills, and those were provided as examples.

That being said, I would definitely recommend keeping an eye out as we start to share more of those archetype and class-based skills in the lead-up to having you help us test them, as we'll certainly be looking for more of your detailed feedback on what feels fun and fair on that front

PlagueMonk

In DAoC, the Midgard Shadowblade originally had the ability to attack an opponent from behind while stealthed AND if they dropped the target in one shot, they would REMAIN stealthed. Yeah, that was removed from the game fairly quickly

So nothing like that I take it?

PleaseNoInvisibility

Please have no invisibility or stealth in this game. It is for a griefing players. I would bet players that play stealth classes are also the most likely to use hacks in games. It just goes with the territory.

PleaseNoInvisibility

No complete invisibility please, it never ends well.

Bricktop

PleaseNoInvisibility wrote: »

Please have no invisibility or stealth in this game. It is for a griefing players. I would bet players that play stealth classes are also the most likely to use hacks in games. It just goes with the territory.

Did the bad man get you?

Damokles

I like this idea for stealth.

Damokles

PleaseNoInvisibility wrote: »

Please have no invisibility or stealth in this game. It is for a griefing players. I would bet players that play stealth classes are also the most likely to use hacks in games. It just goes with the territory.

Thats like saying:
"Please take away mage burst spells or skillshots because we all know that they use skripts."
"Please have no charge on warriors, that is just inviting people to use speed hacks."
"Please dont give priests heals, they are all hackers anyway."

Stealth in some way, shape or form is a big identity point for rogue classes.

Voidwalkers

N0T wrote: »

Also I would like to let know to all people here that mostly what rouge lovers like is the ability to STALK aka go around sneaking unseen unless THEY CHOOSE to start a fight unless they go to close and reveal themselves... SO basically a perma STEALTH/CAMOUFLAGE ability which breaks on offensive skills or spell casting or getting hit by damage will grant NO SUCH THING TO OP TO NOOOOOOO ROOOOOUGE.

In a game where every player faces the risk of getting ganked, how is giving rogues the ability to "not start a fight unless they choose to" (i.e. "significantly lower their risks of getting ganked") not OP?

Sathrago

Voidwalkers wrote: »

N0T wrote: »

Also I would like to let know to all people here that mostly what rouge lovers like is the ability to STALK aka go around sneaking unseen unless THEY CHOOSE to start a fight unless they go to close and reveal themselves... SO basically a perma STEALTH/CAMOUFLAGE ability which breaks on offensive skills or spell casting or getting hit by damage will grant NO SUCH THING TO OP TO NOOOOOOO ROOOOOUGE.

In a game where every player faces the risk of getting ganked, how is giving rogues the ability to "not start a fight unless they choose to" (i.e. "significantly lower their risks of getting ganked") not OP?

Why is being able to cast a meteor shower not OP?

Why is tanking a dragon's breath to the face not OP?

Why is summoning a variety of useful pets for any situation not OP?

Why is being able to sing and buff your party not OP?

Why is being able to shoot you from reeeaaallly far away with a bow not OP?

Why is being able to charge right up to you in an instant not OP?

Why is being able to heal yourself and party members not OP?

Vhaeyne

Voidwalkers wrote: »

In a game where every player faces the risk of getting ganked, how is giving rogues the ability to "not start a fight unless they choose to" (i.e. "significantly lower their risks of getting ganked") not OP?

You point actually makes me more against invisibility. AOC is not going to have some baby economy like WOW or ESO. Money is going to matter. Giving some classes the ability to flat out disappear is way too valuable.

Rouge would be the safest way to make money, and there would be a disproportionate amount of rouges in the game. No thanks.

daveywavey

Now this is the kind of thread we can get behind

daveywavey

Can I please point out that the archetype is a Rogue.

Rouge is a makeup used on your cheeks.




I know, I have problems.....

Vhaeyne

daveywavey wrote: »

Can I please point out that the archetype is a Rogue.

Rouge is a makeup used on your cheeks.

I know, I have problems.....

@#$@#$!!!! I did it again! lol
It sucks when you know better!

daveywavey

Vhaeyne wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Can I please point out that the archetype is a Rogue.

Rouge is a makeup used on your cheeks.

I know, I have problems.....

@#$@#$!!!! I did it again! lol
It sucks when you know better!

I imagine you just took what you saw from the other posts. Easy to do!

Tyrantor

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Voidwalkers wrote: »

In a game where every player faces the risk of getting ganked, how is giving rogues the ability to "not start a fight unless they choose to" (i.e. "significantly lower their risks of getting ganked") not OP?

You point actually makes me more against invisibility. AOC is not going to have some baby economy like WOW or ESO. Money is going to matter. Giving some classes the ability to flat out disappear is way too valuable.

Rouge would be the safest way to make money, and there would be a disproportionate amount of rouges in the game. No thanks.

Are you able to elaborate on this? Do you know the travel time variable for stealth characters vs mounted? Would it not be equally safe for large groups of players to travel together with more loot, on mounts? Do you believe that rogue only groups will be the most efficient leveling/farming options available and their ability to stealth back afterwards just compounds their OP farming ability? Are Caravans not the most probable method for "making money" compared to solo rogues at max carry capacity in stealth?

PleaseNoInvisibility

I've played invisible rogues in games with PvP. Yeah it's fun but it is OP and for bottom feeder players. Maybe stealth for PvE scenarios are good for having rogues on raids is useful and fun.

Not PvP though. Any poll would should the vast majority don't want bottom feeder invisibility. It is like adding a reoccurring disease to the game that annoys everyone except the disease itself that enjoys being a parasite.

To all the invisbility needers responding with "why isn't X ability OP then?" Why does invisibility receive so much hate from all classes and playstyles in every game? No other ability gets as much hate. There is a reason it gets universal hate because it is the pinnacle cheese ability. It is the reason multiple threads exist about it.

I would also bet invisibility players more often are laughing out loud during or after their kills. Why? I have when playing invisible, and my friends have. It is because the kills are obscene and ridiculous often. Someone fighting an NPC can't see you coming, a small group low on health and mana after a fight, adding onto a fight happening and so on.

Then even more the invisible character are always given abilities to get away when they screw up. But no, it is tactics when attack from invisibility run, stealth and do it over and over again. It is a joke, that's why it's funny.

Stealth timer cooldowns, items or abilities to detect stealth... all those are trying to cure symptoms. Invisibility is the disease just don't let it in the game.

Bottom feeders.