Dev Discussion #26 - Login Rewards

SparkyCJB

I would rather a birthday or anniversary gift instead of a login reward.

Pacha

Honestly, daily rewards are always fun as long as it doesn't do any P2W things. I know daily login rewards and P2W are kind of contradictory since daily login rewards are free, but the point is that someone who doesn't get to log in for 2 days in the month shouldn't be left out of something awesome from the daily rewards.

I don't have a problem with daily login rewards and I think some free cosmetic items on the 15th log-in of the month for example are a very good idea! Give something to look forward to for some players!

Oskey

Bit late to this but one approach to this I liked was Albion Online's system! An XP goal to reach with a reward at the end, promoting interaction with the game instead of logging on for 2 minutes, claiming and leaving. In Albion, anything you do (crafting, killing etc) all give xp towards this goal, so you can still play the game however you want. This avoids the issue most have with typical dailies, that you have to spend your time on the game doing chores that you don't find engaging/fun.

Making this XP goal weekly as opposed to daily would also be great! If it would take ~8 hours of play to earn, players could earn this by either daily play or bigger sessions on weekends, while hopefully still feeling rewarding to both!

The reward itself could be a bundle of coins towards a cosmetic (as suggested by Steven in the post), however I feel like this game is already becoming a FOMO simulator with the monthly pre-purchase skins etc, so making these cosmetics time-gated wouldn't feel too great to me. This game is honestly shaping up to be so good, I feel like implementing loads of different timed cosmetics and locking players away from cool stuff could be its only downfall.

Have a lovely day

Lethality

I'll keep it short: This is not a good idea.

Talk to any marketing professional, and they can tell you that drawing people with contests and giveaways and freebies is effective - but those are not your customers. Those are not your long-term retention targets, and are there reasons outside of your core goals.

And, your core customers will come to resent it. If they're a long time player but maybe taking a vacation, or a break, they will resent you for making them feel like they're missing out (of really nothing) if they don't log in.

It's just bad.

That's it

Kyizwa

I like it but i have an idea that could make it better.
So the coins wouldnt reset at the end of the month so you could just stack them and every month a new skin is added. That wouldnt be forcing people to login in order to get the coins since they could get the skin sooner or later but would make them want to login anyway to get as much skins the fastest way possible.

SkylarckTheBotanist

As this will be my first MMORPG, my initial thought on dailies was yes! Why not get a little bonus for logging in.

However, as I’ve read through the community posts and reflected on it more, I think it’s best if there wasn’t a daily/hours online reward (even if it is only cosmetic)

Although there are many great arguments in this thread already I will echo the ones that stand out for me:

1. I am mostly only focused in gathering herbs, if the bonus for daily log-ins was just a single unit of measure of one of the herbs that I gather, it’s devaluing the work I’m putting in. And devaluing the player driven economy.

2. Life is hectic as is and I don’t want to feel like I HAVE to log in to get a reward, I think that draw/pull to log in is unhealthy. I think me wanting to log in because the joy of playing the game is not only more healthy for the game itself but also for the IRL players.

3. If dailies were just cosmetics, I feel that the shear amount of cosmetics would gum up the inventory (Or create work to delete them), not to mention the wonderful work of all the devs and artist who designed each one would feel wasted as they likely wouldn’t see their work displayed proudly amongst the 1000s or other minor cosmetics (since I intent to play AoC for years 4 digits is reasonable).

4. Even with a coin system it still feels like an unhealthy way to "attract" people to log in daily.

Hope this helps,
Skylarck The Botanist

arodicus

I think this is a cool way for people that don’t have as much time to dedicate to playing as others to be able to get cool cosmetics. So long as the coins roll over or can be saved to purchase whichever cosmetic catches your eye for these specific monthly cosmetics dedicated to this daily login. The coins shouldn’t be used for anything else or be able to be used like embers.

Hyruler

Please don't give the casual player a feeling of missing out. Daily login rewards remind me too much of a mobile game anyways. I wouldn't like being rewarded for "just" logging in. Doesn't do the game any dignity.

Blandmarrow

Login rewards just makes you feel forced to login which is bad in all scenarios, I never want to feel forced to play because the game "rewards" me for simply booting the game.

Cypher

No no no, 1 million times no. I’m not sure if I’m in the majority or minority here in what I’m about to say but when there’s a daily login, it puts pressure on me to log in. I don’t want to feel like I’m going to lose out if I miss a day logging in (even if I was planning to play every day anyway).

As soon as you put a stamp on it that says log in or miss out, it actually causes me to have the opposite reaction than what you probably intended. I want to log in by my own choice, and it’ll probably be every day or nearly every day. But you add those silly daily log in chores and suddenly it’s not my choice anymore. Huge turn off.

Not needed in a subscription game that will also have a cash shop. I will absolutely be putting money into the cash shop don’t worry about that. Log in rewards? No, it’ll kill the joy of logging in, not enhance it.

ohToasty

Daily or even weekly rewards are bad. It breaks immersion, makes you seem desperate, and makes the game a chore. Once people feel like they have to log in, they'll start hating the game.

OnlyOne

I wouldn't mind it as long as it remains non p2w and cosmetic only. One concern I always have will be towards the player-driven economy, so as long as these rewards have minimal to no impact on the economy I'm onboard.

Nagash

Already sad no in the other thread but at this point you do you devs

vujkan

why not,rewards system is amazing and idk what problem poeple have with this lol

Lyon

Well i think log in rewards are a nice idea if its only for cosmetics BUT i think the items shouldnt cost 30 coins if you get only 1 daily. It should be like 15-20 coins so casual players can get the items they want too OR the items need to stay in the reward section so you can still get them one or two months later.

FliP

I like login rewards - they motivate people to log in and play.
The rewards can either be directly in form of items or tokens/coins that let you exchange them for certain items.

To give an example on Stevens coin idea:
You get 1 coin for every day you log into the game (preferably, after playing x amount of minutes). Steven mentioned collecting 30 coins (1 every day for a month) to get a monthly reward. I would rather not have it monthly, but instead award 1 coin per day and have a NPC with different cosmetics at various price ranges to choose from. Change the cosmetics up once in a while.

iwinlol

1. • Reward us passively maybe for time played, I think someone who plays 5+ hours a day should have more "coins" by the end of the month than someone who plays 1 hour a day.
   • Make monthly cosmetics casual affordable, something like 10 hours a month and you can buy 1 month's cosmetic.
   • Don't give us FOMO for monthly cosmetic, create a login cosmetic reward library so we can choose what we want when we want it.
   • Daily login pop ups makes games feel like a chore in my opinion

those are some quick thoughts

consultant

Well first of all it is not a daily subsription but a monthly subscription. Second of all most of the player base will not be able to log in every day. So instead of daily rewards I would suggest missions that you have a week to complete. LoL uses a system like this but have eluded to this type of system before i started palying this game. But they also have a small daily reward that I do not miss when I do not play. It is more kind of like a perk little something to keep you going kind of thing. Good gesture.

But lets talk about daily rewards you can in fact have them if it is just kind of a perk a a small reward not enough so if a person does not log it does not feel like they are missing out. You may be thinking well that is the whole point...well that kind of back fires one you after a while like in the case of Mist of Pandaria.

Next thing I want to mention is I do not play games for daily reward (with exeptions). I played WoW and they and had weekly lockouts and valor point caps and weekly conquest point cap which was enought to keep me playing a lot but did not in fact log in every day. Then Mist of Pandara come out and WoW went down hill because of the daily grinds that they put into the game. They thought they were going to be smart and have people online. Matter of fact already made a thread called.....

Keeping People online pretty long post in fact so will not repost just suggest you reread that thread.

Best solution is make the game good. But besides that catch all.....

Events could be used to keep people online so people would be logging in to participate in events or if they are not anounce to see if a certain boss is up or see what is going on in the world in general.

Would support system centered about weakly and bi weakly. But one thing that I did like is BattleStarGalactica Online had this system were it rewarded you ammo and supplies based on the number of days in a row that you logged in up to five then if you miss aday start over. This was pretty clever of them cause it a Progressive system and gives a tiny bit of sense of accomplishment. Really smart of them.

consultant

Just want to take a moment and say thanks for even asking us a question like this and the whole Dev Disscussion in general. Like to read them sometimes and glad to chime in.

mcknightrider

I think you should limit the log in rewards to do only during special events. Like Halloween, Summer, Christmas etc. During those months when you have special events happening. Do log in rewards then, I don't see any real reason to have them on a regular basis.

maouw

pros and cons for Steven's proposal:

PROS

• Short term player retention (extrinsic reward system)
• Casuals can participate (login is effortless - but daily quest becomes a goose hunt chore)
• Regulars earn exclusives (30 logins required per month)
• Cosmetics for everyone (No extra purchases required)
• Doesn't provide advantages in the in-game economy (cosmetics only, untradeable)

CONS

• Long term player fatigue (extrinsic motivation) ((("becomes a chore")))
• Exclusive participation trophy cheapens the experience (login is effortless)
• Casuals feel pressured and alienated (can't do 30 logins per month)
• Breaks immersion (Who would give you a daily gift and why? Anonymous Admirer?)

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Some ideas to consider:

Repurpose the login system to encourage people to experiment with styles from the Cosmetics Shop: Instead of giving away exclusive cosmetics for logins, let the tokens be used to rent items in the cosmetic shop. This way, people can taste items in the cosmetic shops and try out new looks before commiting to a full purchase if they want it permanently. This will also encourage regulars to change up their wardrobe.

Another forgiveness mechanic that will reward casuals better: daily coins are automatically stockpiled even if you don't log in, but only 3 coins can be stockpiled until you log in. This means that a regular player has the freedom to miss one or two days without falling behind, and a player who can only play on weekends can earn a minimum of 4 out of seven coins per week. And players who haven't logged in for a while can enjoy 3 coins on their return.

Monster Hunter did a REALLY GOOD login reward that gave you basic necessities to get on with 2 hunts (30 mins gameplay). The equivalent in AoC would be a handful of potions and a 30 min rent-a-mount coupon, but this would eat into AoC's economy.

---

Despite my suggestions, I believe login rewards don't belong in AoC - exclusive items should be earned by doing exclusive things. Please maintain that equivalence.

TheGuy

I am a HUGE proponent of daily log in rewards. It's not unreasonable at all for an individual to spend the 60 seconds a day it takes to log into the game just to get the coin if theres a cosmetic they want, or to save them up for cosmetics they like later. Although, I feel like this specific log in reward isnt something thats going to actually be an incentive to log in every day, more like a reward for people that do.

Its essentially a fraction of an item that you dont see or have any benefit from until you collect one every day for 30 days, which ends up feeling a lot less like a daily log in reward and more like a whole lot of nothing for 29 days and then on the last day a once a month reward that you might not even like. It sounds like it would create more negative feelings than positive ones since people logging in every day are going to do so with or without the benefit of a cosmetic once a month and people who're logging in just for the cosmetic may either dislike it and not log in at all or like it and feel pressured to make sure they dont miss a single day of logins all month (which usually breaks down into people that do make all 30 days feeling more relieved than happy and the people that miss a day or two feeling pissed.) All pretty negative outcomes.

I'd say go for login rewards for sure but make sure theyre something thats going to incentivize players to log in daily, whether that be rotating weekly rewards so it doesnt feel like your benefit for logging in is forever away or reducing the number of required coins for the cosmetic to 25 so youve got a couple days of grace if you do get busy or DRUNK AS FUUUUUK and forget to log in, but the cosmetic still takes long enough to get that it feels like a reward and not a handout. All things with balance my dude.

Amar

Seems to me most of the nay-say is about it being a "chore" and i would agree that many games do just that. However those are all based on a P2W format... use up energy or whatever to do dailies then you need to buy more to keep playing in that login, it's really just a marketing tool to earn the company $$. A token that just goes into a "Cache" for logging in accumulates (doesn't reset) and can be used on a cosmetic at a point when you have enough and like what's available. I might even suggest the cosmetics available possibly come out quarterly. Not costing 90 tokens but say 65-75 something like that. Main reason i say quarterly is it would give your creators time to do something really special and not get burned out on it themselves, designing something new every month. Also that gives less active players time to accumulate before the items are changed. Active players are gonna hit the mark no matter what anyway. That's my two cents, since it wouldn't matter to me either way if yo decide to or don't.

Cypher

FliP wrote: »

I like login rewards - they motivate people to log in and play.

The GAME should motivate you to log in and play. Log in rewards are a chore and cause resentment because logging in will no longer be something they want to do but instead something they "have" to do.

Loyheta

I also have another idea. Since people have pointed out your subscription is monthly you could have something similar to gw2 old monthly goals.

You could have something that should be achievable within a week of playing. This could include killing enemies, doing dungeons, crafting/gathering/processing, monster events, and holiday events. These could each reward embers that when fully completed is enough to buy the outfit.

If they don't want the outfit they could save them up for different outfits, cosmetics like mount and pet skins, or monster coins.

I think it would be an obtainable goal that respects players time and gives them the liberty to buy and earn what they want.

Edit: I think it's import to keep the monthly missions as generic as possible. This way your kill objectives don't disrupt the economy by flooding it with specific monster components. Most players will passively achieve these goals by playing normal. However, if the objective is kill 100 bears suddenly the bear meat and pelt markets crash. The crafting and processing should help combat this but it will still affect it.

maouw

zombieinvestor wrote: »

Secondly, I want to point out the stress that games give me when their login reward is exactly at 24 hours. especially if it is at 24 hours since the specific player logged in. I think the daily rewards should be reset at a standard time, like 12pm EST for example. Also, instead of a 24-hour log-in system, I think it should be 22-hours ... make it a few hours under 24, this will cause less stress for people especially gamers who have bad sleep schedules.

THIS!!
LoL is smart, and their "first-win-of-the-day" bonus has a 20-hour reset - which makes it much easier to manage.

Nuub

Players logging in every day is great because indicates that they have interest in the game.
The incentive for logging in should be an in game interest, a reason to actually play the game.
Incentivizing login rewards only incentivizes one to log in to get reward, then log out, no longer an indicator of you having created an interesting game.
Anything that is offered as a reward is almost immediately worthless.

Frufire

I would like login rewards as long as it is not the ESO method where if you don't log in enough times, you lose out on a ton of higher tier stuff. Outside of that, please...no p2w login items. The coin idea sounds very awesome.

theneras

The obvious drawback like everyone says is that it doesn't feel great when u miss the log in reward. Id like to point out however that, at least for me, when i do get the reward its not like a super dopamine rush either, its just "ok i got what i was expected to get".
Ofc its cool to allow people to collect rewards like Steven says but i feel like there are better ways of giving those away. There isn't much pride to be had over an item u got for just logging in, wouldn't it be cooler if that item was awarded in game for doing something (even if not time intensive or very hard) idk maybe a small monthly questline. Then you see someone with the cosmetic you know they shared that experience.
If the goal is to make an enjoyable game we don't need a login reward system.
These systems where you get showered with random stuff feel very free to play attention grabby, one of the things i like the most about subscription games is that they are very simple and clean when it comes to these things. I already payed the sub so i don't wanna worry about anything else and i wanna log in because i want to.

Cypher

Ultimately, no one will care if there *aren't* log-in rewards. But a lot of people will care if there *are*. So play it safe and don't include them. This is a subscription game with a cash shop too. No reason to have value-less cosmetics thrown in just because you log in every day. No reason to have the pressure and chore of logging in daily or else miss something. People who are attracted by login rewards don't tend to play the game much. They're just hooked on completing their punch card.