I absolutely LOVE the jumping puzzles. Just make it something that does not give gear or is required to do for quests etc.
Place rare resources at the end of them that fit thematically and it would be perfect.
I hated jumping puzzles in GW2, but I think that's mostly because of the way they did it:
- You can only support your character through "standing on a surface", i.e. no climbing.
- It's often difficult to see whether a certain slope or top of hill counts as a surface that you can stand on
- Not to mention how difficult it is to perform precision positioning with spacebar + wasd.
If you have to do jumping puzzles, I'd suggest making it more like the shrines in Ghost of Tsushima (ya I know it's an action game ...):
- there are climbing spots that your character can latch onto,
- and the jumping puzzles always have hints telling you where to jump next.
- i.e. a much larger room for error, which definitely makes the whole experience much less stressful.
I hated jumping puzzles in GW2, but I think that's mostly because of the way they did it:
- You can only support your character through "standing on a surface", i.e. no climbing.
- It's often difficult to see whether a certain slope or top of hill counts as a surface that you can stand on
- Not to mention how difficult it is to perform precision positioning with spacebar + wasd.
If you have to do jumping puzzles, I'd suggest making it more like the shrines in Ghost of Tsushima (ya I know it's an action game ...):
- there are climbing spots that your character can latch onto,
- and the jumping puzzles always have hints telling you where to jump next.
- i.e. a much larger room for error, which definitely makes the whole experience much less stressful.
I can agree that sometimes surfaces are hard to determine, but in GW2 that's a pretty rare occurrence in my experience.
Your point about precision positioning I completely disagree with, unless you mean being unable to "tiptoe" into positions. Though "toggle walking" exists for which helps a lot with that.
Ghost of Tsushima's jumping puzzles are nice I'll agree, but they're also very hand-holdy and it's hard to fail at them. They're less of a puzzle and more of just a sequence of button presses lacking platforming skill.
Seems like the whole thing boils down to a similar issue as achievements / collectables etc. - divided-reception contents (some ppl love it, some ppl hate it) and what kind of rewards do you lock behind these challenges.
And as usual the ideal balance point is probably how to let jumping puzzles exist as a "choice" rather than a "must" (e.g. don't put them everywhere such that they're nearly unavoidable, as in GW2, and don't lock overly powerful rewards behind the puzzles which will compel ppl to do them).
Seems like the whole thing boils down to a similar issue as achievements / collectables etc. - divided-reception contents (some ppl love it, some ppl hate it) and what kind of rewards do you lock behind these challenges.
And as usual the ideal balance point is probably how to let jumping puzzles exist as a "choice" rather than a "must" (e.g. don't put them everywhere such that they're nearly unavoidable, as in GW2, and don't lock overly powerful rewards behind the puzzles which will compel ppl to do them).
Why not putting some powerful reward behind it? Don't like that kind of challenge, either live without that particular reward or do the challenge in spite of the dislike. That's also a choice. What most people consider a "must" usually isn't.
I don't like raiding. So much so that I don't do any raid. I don't whine that I'm forced to raid or that I can't get the best gear, and I certainly don't campaign for raids not being a part of the game. Some people need to learn to live without everything (not targeting anyone in particular).
I'm fine with the occasional jumping puzzle but if there are too many you lose the uniqueness of them.
What exactly are jumping puzzles for? They are basically gated challenges to reach some reward, further a quest or whatnot. Well there are plenty of ways to do that without having an excessive amount of them.
I remember in WO (Wizardry Online...I bet no one here played it!) to get to a deep dungeon you had to spend literally 15 mins running through a difficult gauntlet or monsters, traps and other obstacles just to get to it and there was no way around it. If you wanted to go there, the gauntlet was the only way.
Just one of a plethora of ways to design a gated challenge that doesn't involve jumping, missing and plummeting to your death so you have to start over.
Seems like the whole thing boils down to a similar issue as achievements / collectables etc. - divided-reception contents (some ppl love it, some ppl hate it) and what kind of rewards do you lock behind these challenges.
And as usual the ideal balance point is probably how to let jumping puzzles exist as a "choice" rather than a "must" (e.g. don't put them everywhere such that they're nearly unavoidable, as in GW2, and don't lock overly powerful rewards behind the puzzles which will compel ppl to do them).
Why not putting some powerful reward behind it? Don't like that kind of challenge, either live without that particular reward or do the challenge in spite of the dislike. That's also a choice. What most people consider a "must" usually isn't.
I don't like raiding. So much so that I don't do any raid. I don't whine that I'm forced to raid or that I can't get the best gear, and I certainly don't campaign for raids not being a part of the game. Some people need to learn to live without everything (not targeting anyone in particular).
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Too many people think they have to do something because it exists and there's a potential gain from it. You don't have to do everything, just do what you like.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Too many people think they have to do something because it exists and there's a potential gain from it. You don't have to do everything, just do what you like.
The problem becomes when you can't do what you like because of it. However, I completely agree that not everyone needs to do everything.
I have high hopes of jumping puzzles being added.They are one of my favourite content. I love how WoW coppied the Vistas from GW2. Also i am enjoying a lot the jumping puzzles in FF14 and GW2. The way FF14 added them is nice. you not only climb but you collect stuff on your way up. And don't let me start about GW2. There are small and huge ones. The diversity is big and the maps have all kinds of layouts.
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unknownsystemerrorMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Don't know why this topic was ghost necro'd. Never was an issue they were going to take serious, no matter with all the great jokes from the topic line of "Nice to meet you Serious, I am Unknown." https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Template:Jumping_puzzles
I love jumping puzzles! But they shouldn't be for content players have to do to be competitive. It should just be for fun and perhaps a small reward at most.
I am not the biggest fan of jumping puzzles, but I don't see how having them in the game would make my gameplay worse in any way.
As long as it is not content I am obligated to participate in, I am ok with it. To each his own
This type of content only becomes a problem when it is the only way to receive a reward.
So for example: instead of having a jumping puzzle that is the only way to receive a certain mount, have a rare-mount vendor, and multiple games spread through the world, which players can OPTIONALLY complete to purchase and pick one of several mounts.
No player should be able to collect all the mounts anyway IMO. That way no one feels obligated to do all the content.
This is just an example, not saying there should be a mount vendor.
jumping puzzle can be fun, another kind of challenge in the game. GW2 did implement them well : it is a mandatory content only if you aim specific things, like achievment, or legendary weapon (in GW2, legendary stuff is not "bis" it is more about skin and QoL )
I like doing jumping puzzle, but it remains a solo thing.
I would happy to see those in AoC BUT not being mandatory, some exotic/special stuff skin or just some good panorama view or cute spot with nothing "usefull" (most jumping puzzle in GW2 is bind to nothing but simple achievment)
It has to remain 100% optionnal
Also, for the game, the exploration part of the game, it is a good way to do allow it farther in some place where a way to simple walk on would look quite surprising. not "realist". One of my favourite jumping puzzle in GW2 was the one in a volcano where you travel from the bottom to the top, and "visit" the inside of this volcano this way.
Jumping puzzles was the best thing GW2 did right IMO, exploration is a great thing to have, the puzzles were rewarding in that regard. I hope to see them in AoC, specially if they add some unique only once in a server rewards.
I play Guildwars 2. There is a lot that they did right with that game. However having played enough of the game, there is one idea I do not want in this game.
I do not like the jumping puzzles that permeate throughout the game. I play games like these to compete either against computer or human opponents. I hate exact precision jumping just to get to an area for a chest or mount. Jumping is fine if the jumping is easy to do. Having to scale something only then to fall off because the mouse did not stay in that little pixel area is frustrating and not fun.
Please do not put jumping puzzles into this game. Concentrate on balancing encounters not terrain.
GW2 player here, I do love GW2 jumping puzzles... and I don't like that in other games... but in GW2 is quite good!
Plus, in the last expansion there's that boss which the respawn is a flying plataform and it flies around the boss flying plataform and you gotta glide from the spawn plataform to the boss plataform... some people miss the landing and die instantly... ITS DAMN GOOD
I would rather Intrepid do jumping puzzles and fail than not trying at all, if they do this right it will be a blast for many people, even tough i'm not that kind of public I recognize people love that
Guild Wars 2 jumping puzzles are so amazing and I hate that kind of stuff, but it's so good in there!
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
I like them. Jumping puzzles, Mysteries, Riddles, Hiddle places.... The Nooks and Crannies of Verra should be "filled" (not overwhelmed) with cool fun activities. Verra is a 1200sqkm sandbox. There is plenty of space to include all manner of different types of content.
It baffles me that something so harmless as jumping puzzles is under attack. Nothing competitive has ever been locked behind Jumping Puzzles - it's just a nice opportunity to incorporate fun activities and it's entirely optional.
By the same logic should we disable aiming for abilities and hitboxes because it might result in potentially missing targets?
Let the game have fun things that are just fun. I'd like them tied more to achievements, lore and if they are linked to achievements then fulfilling certain criteria could unlock mounts, pets or transmog, whatever. Non-competitive rewards basically.
Let the game have fun things that are just fun. I'd like them tied more to achievements, lore and if they are linked to achievements then fulfilling certain criteria could unlock mounts, pets or transmog, whatever. Non-competitive rewards basically.
Absolutely, I would rather a game be crammed with fun things for the sake of fun rather than being crammed with grindy things
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
I just want to add because I've seen a rhetoric which I find really odd.
"If i wanted x in my game I would play y".
We could apply that to literally anything.
If I wanted to do pirating I would play Sea of Thieves
If I wanted to fight difficult bosses I would play Elden Ring
If I wanted to decorate a house i'd play the Sims.
If I want to catch and tame animals i'd play Pokemon.
If I want to do farming I could play animal crossing.
Yes I am exaggerating, but isn't the whole point a lot of us are very excited about Ashes of Creation because they are incorporating things that we all love in other genres, into an MMO? Like all of the above - in addition to the Node system, PvP, Crafting, Housing, Farming. The game is aspiring to take a bunch of elements that players love and merge it into a single game and this has been very well known and likely what drew a lot of people in.
I don't think there is a simple necessarily working template for an MMO. If you just make a new template MMO with open world, instanced raids and PvP - gathering, crafting and bobs your uncle you have yourself an MMO - but it's not going to be interesting at all as we have enough of that. Bringing something new to the market is how you standout and I think Intrepid are doing right by incorporating things like this.
The problem is not the jumping puzzle, the problem is the design and sense given to the jumping puzzle.
Good jumping puzzle > > > > bad jumping puzzle
I really don't think anyone would complain about a good jumping puzzle if it is well designed, if it has a clear meaning, if it has its difficulty but has a good reward or if it is designed for something and for a purpose that will help the players in the end.
You may or may not like jumping puzzles but if jumping puzzles are designed to "give you something, unlock something interesting, get more information/Lore, get a rare material, or anything that benefits the player" then I think it is much more positive than negative to have jumping puzzles.
In the end, jumping puzzles are for fun, there may be jumping puzzle designs for tryhard players and there may also be jumping puzzles for players who just want to have a good time jumping.
Im all for them tbh just dont force them on people (Like GW2 Halloween event the clocktower jumping puzzle) felt like they were mandatory to do for holloween event but the Jumping puzzles in the game is not required to do so thats fine but a nice little easter egg if u stumble across them in the world.
Comments
Place rare resources at the end of them that fit thematically and it would be perfect.
- You can only support your character through "standing on a surface", i.e. no climbing.
- It's often difficult to see whether a certain slope or top of hill counts as a surface that you can stand on
- Not to mention how difficult it is to perform precision positioning with spacebar + wasd.
If you have to do jumping puzzles, I'd suggest making it more like the shrines in Ghost of Tsushima (ya I know it's an action game ...):
- there are climbing spots that your character can latch onto,
- and the jumping puzzles always have hints telling you where to jump next.
- i.e. a much larger room for error, which definitely makes the whole experience much less stressful.
I can agree that sometimes surfaces are hard to determine, but in GW2 that's a pretty rare occurrence in my experience.
Your point about precision positioning I completely disagree with, unless you mean being unable to "tiptoe" into positions. Though "toggle walking" exists for which helps a lot with that.
Ghost of Tsushima's jumping puzzles are nice I'll agree, but they're also very hand-holdy and it's hard to fail at them. They're less of a puzzle and more of just a sequence of button presses lacking platforming skill.
And as usual the ideal balance point is probably how to let jumping puzzles exist as a "choice" rather than a "must" (e.g. don't put them everywhere such that they're nearly unavoidable, as in GW2, and don't lock overly powerful rewards behind the puzzles which will compel ppl to do them).
Why not putting some powerful reward behind it? Don't like that kind of challenge, either live without that particular reward or do the challenge in spite of the dislike. That's also a choice. What most people consider a "must" usually isn't.
I don't like raiding. So much so that I don't do any raid. I don't whine that I'm forced to raid or that I can't get the best gear, and I certainly don't campaign for raids not being a part of the game. Some people need to learn to live without everything (not targeting anyone in particular).
What exactly are jumping puzzles for? They are basically gated challenges to reach some reward, further a quest or whatnot. Well there are plenty of ways to do that without having an excessive amount of them.
I remember in WO (Wizardry Online...I bet no one here played it!) to get to a deep dungeon you had to spend literally 15 mins running through a difficult gauntlet or monsters, traps and other obstacles just to get to it and there was no way around it. If you wanted to go there, the gauntlet was the only way.
Just one of a plethora of ways to design a gated challenge that doesn't involve jumping, missing and plummeting to your death so you have to start over.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Too many people think they have to do something because it exists and there's a potential gain from it. You don't have to do everything, just do what you like.
The problem becomes when you can't do what you like because of it. However, I completely agree that not everyone needs to do everything.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Template:Jumping_puzzles
I second this.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
As long as it is not content I am obligated to participate in, I am ok with it. To each his own
This type of content only becomes a problem when it is the only way to receive a reward.
So for example: instead of having a jumping puzzle that is the only way to receive a certain mount, have a rare-mount vendor, and multiple games spread through the world, which players can OPTIONALLY complete to purchase and pick one of several mounts.
No player should be able to collect all the mounts anyway IMO. That way no one feels obligated to do all the content.
This is just an example, not saying there should be a mount vendor.
I like doing jumping puzzle, but it remains a solo thing.
I would happy to see those in AoC BUT not being mandatory, some exotic/special stuff skin or just some good panorama view or cute spot with nothing "usefull" (most jumping puzzle in GW2 is bind to nothing but simple achievment)
It has to remain 100% optionnal
Also, for the game, the exploration part of the game, it is a good way to do allow it farther in some place where a way to simple walk on would look quite surprising. not "realist". One of my favourite jumping puzzle in GW2 was the one in a volcano where you travel from the bottom to the top, and "visit" the inside of this volcano this way.
GW2 player here, I do love GW2 jumping puzzles... and I don't like that in other games... but in GW2 is quite good!
Plus, in the last expansion there's that boss which the respawn is a flying plataform and it flies around the boss flying plataform and you gotta glide from the spawn plataform to the boss plataform... some people miss the landing and die instantly... ITS DAMN GOOD
I would rather Intrepid do jumping puzzles and fail than not trying at all, if they do this right it will be a blast for many people, even tough i'm not that kind of public I recognize people love that
Guild Wars 2 jumping puzzles are so amazing and I hate that kind of stuff, but it's so good in there!
Now I hope AoC has a huge tower with 1 boss at the top and the only way to get there is, JUMP KINGing your way to the top.
Sound good
Also, I would add this:
-the more times you completed the tower the faster plataforms would crack and break, giving more chance of failing the tower
LOL, is this too sadistic?
Make it a 40 person raid and we have a deal.
By the same logic should we disable aiming for abilities and hitboxes because it might result in potentially missing targets?
Let the game have fun things that are just fun. I'd like them tied more to achievements, lore and if they are linked to achievements then fulfilling certain criteria could unlock mounts, pets or transmog, whatever. Non-competitive rewards basically.
Absolutely, I would rather a game be crammed with fun things for the sake of fun rather than being crammed with grindy things
All I ask is that you don't catch From Software syndrome and fill the world with narrow wooden beams you need to jump between.
"If i wanted x in my game I would play y".
We could apply that to literally anything.
If I wanted to do pirating I would play Sea of Thieves
If I wanted to fight difficult bosses I would play Elden Ring
If I wanted to decorate a house i'd play the Sims.
If I want to catch and tame animals i'd play Pokemon.
If I want to do farming I could play animal crossing.
Yes I am exaggerating, but isn't the whole point a lot of us are very excited about Ashes of Creation because they are incorporating things that we all love in other genres, into an MMO? Like all of the above - in addition to the Node system, PvP, Crafting, Housing, Farming. The game is aspiring to take a bunch of elements that players love and merge it into a single game and this has been very well known and likely what drew a lot of people in.
I don't think there is a simple necessarily working template for an MMO. If you just make a new template MMO with open world, instanced raids and PvP - gathering, crafting and bobs your uncle you have yourself an MMO - but it's not going to be interesting at all as we have enough of that. Bringing something new to the market is how you standout and I think Intrepid are doing right by incorporating things like this.
Good jumping puzzle > > > > bad jumping puzzle
I really don't think anyone would complain about a good jumping puzzle if it is well designed, if it has a clear meaning, if it has its difficulty but has a good reward or if it is designed for something and for a purpose that will help the players in the end.
You may or may not like jumping puzzles but if jumping puzzles are designed to "give you something, unlock something interesting, get more information/Lore, get a rare material, or anything that benefits the player" then I think it is much more positive than negative to have jumping puzzles.
In the end, jumping puzzles are for fun, there may be jumping puzzle designs for tryhard players and there may also be jumping puzzles for players who just want to have a good time jumping.
PvX jumping puzzle lol !