Which cleric / healer do you think is best for PVP? And to hunt alone?

I've always liked healers, but beyond support they can't do much more.

This seems to be changing in Ashes, so you think it's better for pvp, for groups and for hunting alone.

pvp: Cleric / Bard? Cleric / Mage? Cleric / summoner?

In group: Cleric / bard?

Hunt alone: ​​Cleric / summoner? Cleric / Mage?

Comments

  • I don't think we know enough about the skills / augments yet to have any sort of clue.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I don't think we know enough about the skills / augments yet to have any sort of clue.

    This is true.

    If I were to guess though, I'd say cleric/mage for solo PvE, cleric/tank for solo PvP and probably cleric/cleric for anything group related.
  • I think the goal is not to make a distinction between PvE and PvP - and most balancing is going to be done with groups in mind - not really 1v1 balancing.

    So for group content secondaries, my guess is: Bard, Cleric, Summoner, Tank

    For solo content, I imagine any dps secondary: Rogue, Ranger, Fighter, Mage


    Not much info on class implementation though, so it remains to be seen.
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder
    We won't know the answer to this until beta testing when everything is implemented and the classes start getting fine-tuned. Until then it's pure speculation.
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  • Cleric & Ranger combo -- pewpew heals :P
  • halbarz wrote: »
    Cleric & Ranger combo -- pewpew heals :P

    Unbeatable!
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  • My magic lightbulb is suggesting Cleric / Fighter
  • nilvnilv Member
    My +15 years of MMORPG experience says that it will be High Priest. If you don’t play it, you will be outside of the META and no one is going to take you into groups. Also you won’t be able to hunt alone with any of the healers. If you try, you will be ganked by groups of people and there is no way around that. So I would really suggest if you are interested in playing AoC start preparing your premade group of people and then just play with those people. Constant parties FTW!

    ⇻ theNILV ⇺
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    nilv wrote: »
    My +15 years of MMORPG experience says that it will be High Priest. If you don’t play it, you will be outside of the META and no one is going to take you into groups. Also you won’t be able to hunt alone with any of the healers. If you try, you will be ganked by groups of people and there is no way around that. So I would really suggest if you are interested in playing AoC start preparing your premade group of people and then just play with those people. Constant parties FTW!

    ⇻ theNILV ⇺

    PvP in Ashes is not going to be that mindless.

    Without an actual, real reason to want to kill a player, most people will leave others be.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    PvP in Ashes is not going to be that mindless.

    Without an actual, real reason to want to kill a player, most people will leave others be.

    You haven't met him. Trust me, there'll be reasons...! :p:D>:)
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    PvP in Ashes is not going to be that mindless.

    Without an actual, real reason to want to kill a player, most people will leave others be.

    You haven't met him. Trust me, there'll be reasons...! :p:D>:)

    That may be true, but one player isn't going to alter the behavior of every player in the game.

    I am going to be really interested to see how the game does go for people like this - I don't see them lasting more than the first month.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    PvP in Ashes is not going to be that mindless.

    Without an actual, real reason to want to kill a player, most people will leave others be.

    You haven't met him. Trust me, there'll be reasons...! :p:D>:)

    That may be true, but one player isn't going to alter the behavior of every player in the game.

    I am going to be really interested to see how the game does go for people like this - I don't see them lasting more than the first month.

    People forget that while this game will have plenty of PVP options that community is a key here, your reputation can easily influence your game experience.
  • From what we saw on the Healer preview, the class has a nice single target kit already on lv10, i don't think the class will suffer alot to solo hunt on areas meant to solo hunt whatever your secundary archtype may be but the best would probably be Oracle?
    As for which healer class will be the best for pvp i would bet on High Priest, Apostle and maybe Scryer but it's just mere speculation at this point.
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  • nilvnilv Member
    edited February 23
    Noaani wrote: »

    That may be true, but one player isn't going to alter the behavior of every player in the game.

    I am going to be really interested to see how the game does go for people like this - I don't see them lasting more than the first month.


    To be fair I did spend most of my life playing this game called Lineage 2. Which is pretty much exactly the system that AoC is trying to emulate. So I do have a slight idea about the player's behaviour in this type of environment. Obviously people won’t be ganking everything that moves, like in some kind of survival game. But if everything they say goes according to the plan, the game will be offering you a bunch of reasons why someone would be stepping on your shoes, and you would need to kill them. Especially if the game will revolve around group farming instead of soloing, which hopefully is the case. As long as the endgame farming is limited, and bosses are open world. You won’t be playing this game without a reason to kill someone, that’s for sure.

    The game seems to be designed around this concept of meaningful PvP which is the only reason why “people like me” would be even mildly excited for the project. And honestly if they nail it, this could easily be the best PvP MMORPG experience ever.

    ⇻ theNILV ⇺
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    nilv wrote: »

    To be fair I did spend most of my life playing this game called Lineage 2. Which is pretty much exactly the system that AoC is trying to emulate.
    It's actually not.

    L2 was all about open world PvP, and the karma system was designed to limit, but facilitate that.

    The corruption system in Ashes is about funneling those PvP desires to other activities - caravans, sieges, guild/node wars and arenas.

    While the systems look similar at first, a delve in to them reveals one massive difference. In L2, if you have a high PK count and a lot of karma, you aren't really at that much of a penalty - you can still function.

    In Ashes, if you are at high corruption, you are vulnerable - very vulnerable.

    While you are right that the game is designed around meaningful PvP, the best, easiest description of what Intrepid mean by meaningful PvP would be anything that doesn't involve the corruption system.

    You're not the first person to come along here and see the surface similarities between karma from L2 and corruption. The systems are similar, but the details are very different, and the goal of each is very different.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Noaani wrote: »
    While you are right that the game is designed around meaningful PvP, the best, easiest description of what Intrepid mean by meaningful PvP would be anything that doesn't involve the corruption system.

    You're not the first person to come along here and see the surface similarities between karma from L2 and corruption. The systems are similar, but the details are very different, and the goal of each is very different.

    No, the corruption/flagging system is another system to encourage meaningful pvp. Just because there is a potential penalty, it doesn't change that. That is what the penalty is there for, it's something for you to way against whatever reason you have to gain it.

    You are not the first person to not understand this. All the systems are there to encourage meaningful pvp. I challenge to find somewhere the devs mention that this is not the goal of the flagging system or they don't consider it one of their systems that is there to encourage meaningful pvp.

    I'm pretty sure they based their system off L2's system because they had similar goals for it. Yes, they made changes to patch what they considered some issues with the L2 system but that doesn't mean to goals aren't similar, if not the same.
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  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited February 24
    Apostle (Cleric tank) for group, Shadow disciple (cleric rogue) for solo, maybe.
    Here's a tip, and a spear behind it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    No, the corruption/flagging system is another system to encourage meaningful pvp.

    Look at caravans and sieges.

    If you head out once a day, harvest until your inventory is full and then return home, a lost caravan represents 3 months worth of harvesting.

    If a metropolis loses a siege, that is likely to be over a thousand players that no longer have an in game home - that are now essentially nomads looking for somewhere to settle.

    Steven has talked many times about how this is the PvP he wants PvP players to focus on.

    But sure, adding a small amount of corruption to a PvP kill when the player isn't even fighting back makes it meaningful.

    Honestly, your line of thinking here simply doesn't square up with the games systems as we understand them.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    edited February 24
    Noaani wrote: »
    No, the corruption/flagging system is another system to encourage meaningful pvp.

    Look at caravans and sieges.

    If you head out once a day, harvest until your inventory is full and then return home, a lost caravan represents 3 months worth of harvesting.

    If a metropolis loses a siege, that is likely to be over a thousand players that no longer have an in game home - that are now essentially nomads looking for somewhere to settle.

    Steven has talked many times about how this is the PvP he wants PvP players to focus on.

    But sure, adding a small amount of corruption to a PvP kill when the player isn't even fighting back makes it meaningful.

    Honestly, your line of thinking here simply doesn't square up with the games systems as we understand them.

    Just because there is less potential gain doesn't change the fact it's a system to encourage meaningful pvp.

    They have also talked about reason players will fight in the open world. There is a wiki section for hunting grounds has several quotes from them talking about there intention for the open pvp system. If you head to the Dungeon wiki, there is a quote mentioning how they consider other players to be part of a dungeon's challenge.

    What is your line of thinking? if the pvp system has a penalty, it can't be considered meaningful. Why do you think that? What about when i kill someone who fought back or maybe i jumped someone who had attacked someone else. I didn't get a penalty and they could have dropped resources. By your definition, is that meaningful?
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Just because there is less potential gain doesn't change the fact it's a system to encourage meaningful pvp.
    Explain to me, please, how the corruption system encourages open world PvP.
  • WarthWarth Member
    edited February 24
    Noaani wrote: »
    Just because there is less potential gain doesn't change the fact it's a system to encourage meaningful pvp.
    Explain to me, please, how the corruption system encourages open world PvP.

    He never said that it encourages open world pvp. He said that it encourages meaningful PvP aka PvP with a tangible gain rather than PvP just for fucks sake/to grief someone.

    Which is indeed what it does. It encourages to restrict yourself to only PK when its meaningful.

    I do not think that this is the topic of le thread though
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Warth wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Just because there is less potential gain doesn't change the fact it's a system to encourage meaningful pvp.
    Explain to me, please, how the corruption system encourages open world PvP.

    He never said that it encourages open world pvp. He said that it encourages meaningful PvP aka PvP with a tangible gain rather than PvP just for fucks sake/to grief someone.

    Which is indeed what it does. It encourages to restrict yourself to only PK when its meaningful.

    I do not think that this is the topic of le thread though

    I would agree that it discourages meaningless PvP - which I think is the point you are trying to make.

    If corruption is discouraging meanless PvP, then now explain to me how that is not an attempt to focus the PvP desires of players in to PvP forms that do not involve corruption.

    That is, after all, what I said.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    edited February 24
    Noaani wrote: »
    Warth wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Just because there is less potential gain doesn't change the fact it's a system to encourage meaningful pvp.
    Explain to me, please, how the corruption system encourages open world PvP.

    He never said that it encourages open world pvp. He said that it encourages meaningful PvP aka PvP with a tangible gain rather than PvP just for fucks sake/to grief someone.

    Which is indeed what it does. It encourages to restrict yourself to only PK when its meaningful.

    I do not think that this is the topic of le thread though

    I would agree that it discourages meaningless PvP - which I think is the point you are trying to make.

    If corruption is discouraging meanless PvP, then now explain to me how that is not an attempt to focus the PvP desires of players in to PvP forms that do not involve corruption.

    That is, after all, what I said.

    Here is what i quoted:
    Noaani wrote: »
    While you are right that the game is designed around meaningful PvP, the best, easiest description of what Intrepid mean by meaningful PvP would be anything that doesn't involve the corruption system.

    Tell me if i'm misinterpreting this but it looks like you are saying that meaningful pvp is anything that doesn't involve corruption, which to me, implies you are saying the corruption system isn't a form of meaningful pvp.

    Yes, the system encourages you to go after those higher yielding, lower risk activities but the frequency of those activities is unknown. It's probably not going to be every day that you are able to catch people running caravans or will get caught up in a node siege. It will probably be more common for you to come in conflict with players while farming in the open world outside of those activities.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Yes, the system encourages you to go after those higher yielding.
    This is whay I am saying, why are you arguing this point?

    Assuming that you agree that it is Intrepids design intention, if you are then saying that you do not think those events will happen often enough, you are basically saying you have no faith in Intrepid dsigning a good game.

    I mean, if that is their intent - to use corruption to encourage people in to those other forms of PvP - then OBVIOUSLY they will make sure those other forms of PvP are frequent enough to meet that design intent.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member
    nilv wrote: »
    My +15 years of MMORPG experience says that it will be High Priest. If you don’t play it, you will be outside of the META and no one is going to take you into groups. Also you won’t be able to hunt alone with any of the healers. If you try, you will be ganked by groups of people and there is no way around that. So I would really suggest if you are interested in playing AoC start preparing your premade group of people and then just play with those people. Constant parties FTW!

    ⇻ theNILV ⇺

    I don't think so. I think Cleric/X anything will be able to main heal a party and Cleric/Cleric will be overkill to the point where you're going to start wanting a different secondary who can do something more than heal. I think this will be true for every archetype - each will be able to perform their role regardless of secondary class. I think Cleric/Cleric will be overkill in many situations outside of perhaps large scale PvP raids or PvE raids, where you may want a couple Cleric/Cleric for the extra heals they can offer. But you won't need them in most content, so I think players will find a lot of different Cleric combos useful. Especially since you'll run into PvP, PvE, solo, group all in the same build - since the game is open world I think builds that can do other things will be more useful. But I also think your secondary class and it's usefulness will also largely depend on what the rest of your group is running.
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