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To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Also I think it’s important to note that role playing tends to scaffold off of the systems in place. We can argue system definitions, but my endeavor was to reach beyond that.
I’ll never win that argument though
If your intent with the role playing counter- argument is to enforce the impossibility of innocence, I think you’re imposing an artificial sense of what’s possible in the environment provided.
I'm at the point now where I don't understand your complaint.
You say you want RP to be based on the systems the game has, yet you are talking about innocence as if it is the flip side of corruption.
It is not.
Characterizing it as a complaint is noted
In nature there is no such thing as innocent or guilty, it's merely something humans have agreed upon in social terms to enforce for our own safety.
Any sentient being is subject to another's actions, whether you deem it right or wrong, it's kill or be killed which it always have been and always will be.
The corruption system is not in place for RP reasons, it's there as a game mechanic to discourage malicious behavior such as ganking low levels or bullying someone over and over by killing them.
In short, it's there to protect the weak or unwilling from reality to make the game more enjoyable.
In reality we also have a corruption system, it's called The Law alongside what is socially acceptable, which is enforced by the community, loosely.
Nope, I am looking for it, I just can't find it.
You say you want roleplaying to be characterized by the games systems.
We don't know much about the lore of the game, but I'll give you a rundown of what I do know lorewise in regards to corruption.
First thing is The Essence. The Essence is basically life-force. it flows through Verra (and most of the other planes of existence) like a river. This life-force can be manipulated in to what we accept as magic. Gods are masters of The Essence, and both mages and clerics are known to be users of it as well.
Corruption is the negative aspect of The Essence. This means that corruption is magical in nature - perhaps even the source of some forms of magic.
It isn't just players that get corruption - corruption is a force of it's own. Mobs can be corrupt, plants can be corrupt, corruption can just exist as a storm.
This is why innocence simply isn't the flip side of corruption - corruption is the flip side of The Essence - or magic.
Quote what it is you are talking about here.
Saying I didn't say that is incredibly unhelpful without defining what "that" is.
That’s fair, I was referring to,
When I was referring to an abstract scaffolding from those systems through roleplaying*
You said that you want roleplaying scaffolded on the games systems, I said you want roleplaying to be characterized by the games systems.
Explain to me how these two statements are fundamentally different.
I suggest going back to that post and reading what we know (or what I know) of corruption, from a lore perspective, as that should alter your perspective on it somewhat.
@Bleebz they system in UO is not so dissimilar to Lineage 2`s system which in turn is a reference to the AoC`s proposed system.. bit like v1.0 to v2.0, to v4.0... with ashes doing it a little different.
But perhaps to help fill the blanks relative to the system you are perhaps more familiar describing in more detail the known system of L2 which is largely refrenced vs AoC which is still not quite tested to see how similar
- Pvp could occur anywhere but towns
- Killing an innocent turned you "red", just as a murderer without a need to report
- Killing a "red" could be done with nil consequence and gave potential for loot (varied alot from early beta to later game)
- Being "red" earned you "karma".at an expodential scale. gaining more and more karma per kill & a pk count.
- If you had pk`s uncleared when you went red, then you immediately gained higher amount of karma
- To reduce your karma you either had to die it off or xp it off
- To reduce your pk count you had to do a time consuming quest that reduced a random amount of pks off, somewhere between 1-5..
- Over 5 pks and you ran the risk of a large amount of equipment being lost when dying
- Those who were "red" could not enter town technically as the guards would try to kill them, but the guards were not so strong, so sometimes that was not an issue and/or there were ways back to your clan hall to be safe and not hurt
- Nobody in town could kill a "red"
- A very robust system like UO but got softer over the years
- And in late game when 1hr xp = 0.3% xp up, and a death took 90min play time, people really considered their pvp game!
ANDThe system was used both ways to advantage.
I can compare it to.
*edit: I misread. I agree, not dissimilar. I am excited to see this type of ruleset in a modern MMORPG
I would actually, because it's more believable to me as it is more consistent with how reality works which helps immersion.
I do recognize that these systems are needed to make the game less punishing because we play games to have fun, not to be smacked in the face with reality.
I also happen to have played full loot PvP which I very much enjoyed so that might be part of it.
Pretty much I guess.
When I say weak I mean players that play casually, because generally they can't compete with players that play 6h+ a day.
criminal =/= combatant
criminal == corrupted
And just to be consistent, the flagging is very similar, I focused on a very minor point for discussion. I still think it’s worth discussing.
Look guys, I might be biased okay
Nice point! But whilst criminal = corrupted, I imagine to save their ass, a corrupted will likely stay in a ready combative state until karma or what ever equivalent there is, has been worked off.
Innocent : Non-Combatant
Criminal : Combatant
Murderer : Corrupted
Obviously AoC is using less moralistic language, and my arguments tend to follow, as a detractor.
Yet you continued to bring it up.
If you wish to draw a comparison between the corruption system in this game and a similar system in another game that you have played - great, go for it. Just be aware that you are drawing a comparison, and there will be many differences (which is what I was trying to explain to you, before you started insisting on talking about innocence in Ashes, which doesn't exist).
I realize we’re on a fine line here, but I will not abandon my view that you’re imperiling the definition of a MMORPG.
In terms of anything other than development, it doesn't matter.
Literally any and all concepts can exist in an MMO if people want them to. Karma can exist as an abstract concept if someone believes in it.
That doesn't mean it is a concept that the game is being developed around. There is no concept that a player that hasn't attacked another is considered innocent in any manner, they are simply a player that is a valid target for PvP combat at all times while they are logged in.
Discuss.
*grabs the popcorn!*