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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I like chocolate ice cream. However, neapolitan is good because it has chocolate, but also has some other complementary flavors going on. These flavors are good in their own right, but also make the chocolate ice cream seem to taste even better.
The problem with neapolitan ice cream is that it is usually made with cheap versions of the three flavors, instead of really good versions of them.
If someone made neapolitan ice cream with a really rich chocolate ice cream, a creamy vanilla bean oce cream, and a strawberry ice cream made from fresh strawberries, that would be amazing, and I'd be all over that.
The problem is, while you can get all of those ice creams individually, when a company is making neapolitan ice cream, they tend to cheap out on all three flavors.
I get that if I am buying neapolitan ice cream, I am not getting just chocolate, I obviously wouldn't buy it if that wasnt the case. However, there is no reason they can't make the chocolate ice cream that is there as good as it can be made - and same goes for the other two flavors.
That is you, which explains why you are still here after a few years of knowing that Ashes is not a fully PvE game, when clearly you are at the very least a PvE leaning person. Which is great, it shows at least a willingness to try PvX. To me that would be the ideal scenario for anyone getting into a PvX game.
Some people do not want anything to do with PvP anything no matter the quality. They will be missing out on all that Ashes has to offer. The strawberries analogy holds true for this type of person because they don't care if it is the best possible strawberry ice cream. They are still going to eat around in it. In which case I say just order what you actually want, and get more out of your snack.
The idea that some players are all going to split the community and get more out of the game, by making an unofficial PvE focused server is silly to me. PvE focused players will learn to like what good PvP adds to the game, or just go to a game that suites their needs. There are more than enough games that split or focus on one type of content to try.
I keep bringing up Pantheon for PvE focused players or Crowfall for PvP focused players. I see Ashes as the middle ground. Also I did back all three, but I am betting that Ashes is where I spend most of my time because it has so many flavors to offer in one dish.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
I was just explaining why I am still here, even though I am a PvE focused player (not that I shy away from PvP at all) - and why I think it is not unreasonable to want PvE content in Ashes that is on par with that found in PvE focused games - even if I don't expect that to be the case.
As to Crowfall/Pantheon...
I actually don't personally consider Crowfall to be an MMORPG. I know ArtCraft do, but to me, one of the key elements of what makes a game an MMORPG is a fully persistent world - and Crowfall doesn't have that.
Pantheon may end up being good, but if I were to bet money one way or the other, it would be that the game is eventually abandoned. I looked it over a few years ago and wasn't convinced about the company, so didn't bother spending too much time looking at the game.
If it releases an open beta, that is when I'll next look at it, as that is when I'll next be more convinced than not that it will actually release.
PvP destroys development opening the path for new and different development under different ownership.
Without PvE, the world remains a barren wilderness
Without PvP, the world will never change once built
PvE is the only way to bring money, materials, and resources into the world.
PvP allows for conflict over money, materials, and resources
Without PvE, there is no wealth
PvP provides additional reasons to have wealth such as, using wealth in defense of PvE wealth generating resources
The systems feed into one another. They are designed in such a way that the concept of a changing world and meaningful PvP through defending possessions no longer work if either PvE or PvP is removed.
And that is exactly how I feel it will end up on couple of servers.
For example lets assume we have 100 servers. According to pve/pvp participation rates
about 20 of those would be balanced
10 would be much more pvp focused
and 70 would be more pve focused (with 10-20 where pvp practically doesn't happen)
If this is what Interpid is aiming for and technically doesn't mean game "not working". Then ok.
But thinking that everyone will adapt and PvE players will quit (assuming PvE part is good) is kinda naive.
As I said though, if there is a server out there where there is little PvP, that is a great target server for a PvP guild to go to.
Because of that, there won't be servers with a lack of PvP like this.
it just won't happen, because players will self-regulate.
1000% truth.
If a PvX/PVP guild is struggling on a highly competitive server it is a no brainer that a lot of them would just roll fresh toons on a server that is not as competitive.
Realistically the only server division I see is people looking for a server without Streamers on it. Streamers bring a whole host of problems that people in general will want to deal with or not. I can tell you, as much as I enjoy a good Asmongoloid video from time to time. What ever server he is playing on is a server I will not be playing on.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
At first servers will be blank so it will be a shot in a dark. Now if pvp/pve players will struggle to find/make guilds they will try different servers. Because that is ultimately what is deciding factor (after friends of course).
To find a place with people of similar interests. There is a reason why for example, after merging small English speaking realms to big English (unofficially Polish) server, those people started bailing out.
Well, we will see how it goes. But im fairly confident servers in AoC won't balance themselves.
This is not the goal of PvP players. Their goal is to dominate the node/region/server.
In the same way that moving servers is not an issue for a PvE guild if it means they can meet their goal, it is also not an issue for a PvP guild to move servers to one they think they can better dominate.
Having said members of nodes in different groups splitting experience in PvE based on damage, PvP as well as artisan requirements and tasks, there should be plenty of paths to level your character and node effectively.
There may be some early game struggles until server establishment as any new game has. But as guilds and alliances develop with trading, diplomacy and node development, it allows players of different focus to contribute to their node in their strengths and weaknesses.
Some players prefer gathering, artisan/crafting, PvE, PvP, escorts, raiding etc. Some guilds and nodes may be more on one side of duality spectrum where the focus of another guild may be on the side of the spectrum.
IE: raiding caravans vs escorting caravans (using the chapter eleven as an example).
Not all guilds in and around neighbouring nodes have the same focus or beliefs per se, even if they are allies.
Lots of flavour for all!
Hell yah to DAOC pvp and my favorite cereal; Darkness Falls!
But on the OP's topic...
I wanted to offer you my interpretation of the "PvX" concept. It's a combo of three things.
Intrepid studios uses this term to describe gameplay of three different types. Their use of it is meant to highlight what they think is a unique aspect of their game.
The gameplay focuses are:
Player vs player
Player vs environment
... and the third one they are proposing is such a big part of the game it deserves to be included is...
Crafting
But not just crafting; the whole interdependent process of creating AoC's player-made and managed economy from start to finish. Intrepid has tried to give players the responsibility for every phase of the supply chain. It is supposed to be such a rewarding game play experience that players could choose to focus on getting to the "end game" of crafting as their main play style and feel like they have "played the game."
So a person could be a pvp'er or a pve'er or a crafter. But because these game play systems are supposedly so intertwined and dependent on each other a player who plans to pursue all three designates their play style as PvX.
The monkey chases the weasel who chases the chicken all around the mulberry bush.
That's a "PvX" player. I freaking love it. I'm going to pvp, pve, and craft. Therefore I am a PvX'er
The Dark Alliance is building the Tulnar Civilization on our server!
[NA] [18+] - We need EVERYONE!
If you want in, send me a message!
Well you are wrong because I started with only PvP games. According to interviews moving servers will be hard. So I really really doubt pvp guilds will "just move server". They would probably have to start all over again.
Competitive people have zero problem rolling fresh toons if they see and advantage to be gained. They will literally be licking their lips in excitement if they find out there is a server with no PvP going on. It is like a fresh canvas waiting to be covered in blood.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
There is no "probably" about it. They absolutely would have to start all over again.
As I said though, this isn't an issue for PvE players if they see an opportunity on another server - the same is true for PvP players if they see an opportunity.
4-6 hours per day for 45 days to get to level 50.. that's only 180 to 270 hours to get back to max level. Be about two weeks of serious grinding. That's not that much in the grand scheme of things.
To be honest though, the way the game is currently designed, it encourages pvp, sieges and pve through points of interest providing reason for conflict, pve, sieges, pvp, escorts, raids, exploration etc
So unless there is some extreme calling or reason to go to another server... meh, but it's not the end of the world to start over.
You are absolutely right.
Also if a server magically became super PvE oriented it would be awful. A node would get maxed out and people would be like: "well pack it up boys... those guys got here first... games over, our adjacent node can never get as big now. Lets just be their vassals for all eternity..."
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
lol, potentially yes
From my understanding with the node sieges vs node wars and their intent, even if a node became super dominant, eventually some other node could eventually decide to take it out for what ever reason.
There are other things to look into as well as reasons for biome choices, biome population density, reasons for players to immigrate or emigrate.
And in theory, usually competitive games like this one in regards to pve and pvp do not necessarily like it when other nodes are "power houses" or "unchallenged".
being number 1 per se in this situation would paint a target on the node owner providing reason for conflict to destroy or disrupt the node.
so much of the game to discover still. I guess this is why this games design and dynamics around the nodes are going to interest many gamers.
EDIT:
to be fair in theory, the pve supports the pvp by providing gear and crafting. in a way, PvE may be relatively dominant in many situations as it's the backbone of the economy.
I like to think of games like this in relation to the Real Time Strategy (RTS) and even Turn Based Strategy (TBS) games.
You have workers who provide your establishment with resources to build a base and further develop it as well as supplying upgrades and gear to your soldiers to defend your base/civilization and attack your enemies base/civilization.
It's not so linear between roles, but in this scenario for this game, the players can fill all those roles regardless of strengths and weakness in relation to preferences of PvX
think of it this way:
you have workers who go out and gather resources. You'll need to protect these workers and the supply chains (caravans) to establish a steady supply chain for efficiency in relation to building and unit progression.
There will be diplomacy and trading between nodes which will require further protection to these supply chains for resources to maintain development costs.
you'll want to continue a relatively stable resources in vs resources out in terms of costs and maintenance.
instead of designated roles for these purposes, players will have the options to contribute in a more in-depth variation in a MMORPG variant.
these examples would include the PvP/PvE as well as artisan roles each player can contribute. so when I suggest it will work in a PvX perspective regardless of a players desire (strengths and weaknesses in playstyle preference), that is what I am referring to.
so yeah, PvE would essentially be some sort of back bone/skeleton for the rest of the bodies development for desired PvP to continue to build a full bodied economy and game in relation to PvP.
PvX provides that in a game designed like this
Ok so this just won't be happening as suspected.
The only remaining question is how bad disparity will be.
This game more than any other MMO I have seen is truly trying to focus on PvX.
All activities are valuable and needed. Which is refreshing and great.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
would you mind elaborating a bit on your reply? I don't quite follow what you're trying to imply
I understand not everyone will have the same schedules or dedication to serious grinding as others will.
Hopefully none bad, my hope is that people see the value in logging on to fulfill different needs from their guild everyday.
Today we need people running protection for caravans, yesterday we were grinding elites and dungeon delving. We need to craft gear for the node siege at the end of the week, and maybe a new raid boss pops after that?
To me a successful guild is going to want all hands on deck.
The game itself seems to be encouraging a situation where there is not a disparity between too many PvPers and too many PvEers, but a unity instead.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Oh I see. This would be the nodes guild development and recruiting purposes per se.
for example.
If I wanted to specialize in a gathering artisan, say mining in this example.
I would be more than willing to do resource raids to load up a caravan with ore/stone and protect it until it is back to the node (unless they want the player(s) working the mines like no tomorrow and have their own dedicated players to escorting the caravan).
IIRC, you can master three things in the same artisan tree, but you'll be able to participate in basics of the others sides of the triangle.
this can be said for all artisans to develop the node. I believe there can be multiple guilds in the node so there can be guilds with different purposes based on their roles and reasons.
1) There probably wont be enough servers to split the community. Every server will remain PvX.
2) They probably wont like it here, PvX doesn't need to change to suite the desires of a few PvErs.
3) Node system will prevent this.
4) This game requires every time of player to be functional on every server. Caustic anti-PvP types will want to be a on a server where PvPers can ensure their safety so they can secure PvE kills for their group.
And that is exactly what I call a wishful thinking. I can guarantee it will attract all types of mmo players, probably lots WoW dropouts as new expac seems really bad.
You don't get to pick what kind of players will play your game, well, unless you start banning them (but that would be really bad).
And if PvE component will be good, PvE players will stay and try their best to make themselves a home. There is nothing you can do to stop that. And that is ok, as long as it doesn't go out of control.
You make it sound like it's a bad thing that people which aren't inside your primary targetaudience are picking up your product. Which, apart from maybe tidepots, isn't a bad thing at all. I'm pretty sure that IS will be quiet happy about that.
However, that doesn't mean that you/they will adapt their core design principles behind the product to better suit that group at the expense of their initial target audience
So what is wrong about attracting other players that aren’t necessarily the target audience? They can come, see if they vibe with the game, and if they don’t then they can leave. What you don’t understand is that if you’re not into PvX games then AoC might not be for you. If you’re a PvE only player and try out AoC you might not like it. You can cry all you want in vain or move on to a game that’s for you.
If they do decide to stay then they will have to deal with the PvP that will inevitably come for them.
Also, why would you ban players if they don’t like your game?? Just let them leave when they don’t like it. What are you even saying my guy?
I guess what I'm saying/thinking is that they won't stick around. Will they venture over and try out the game? Sure. But if the game doesn't decide to cater to their desires to change the game to their own wants, then they will eventually leave.
I don't see those types of players coming over, not enjoying the game for what it is and knowing the devs aren't going to cater to them, and them staying.
Well it is already working so would have to agree with Nagash as far as having pve and pvp people on the same servers. As the question reads you are talking about not having PvP servers and PvE servers.
Well was reading in another post and they said that there will be cross server interaction as far as PvP is concerned to bring cummunity together. As far as PvE well almost every one does dungeouns and What I am saying is Even on PvP servers people still do plenty of Pve so as far as PvE is concerned should not be a big deal.
But since every one will be flagged for PvP plus corruption system this game is more PvP heavy.