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No Dailies. No Chores.
Uncommon Sense
Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Hello Forum Users, It's been awhile since I've posted.
I was an active user on the old website but decided to step back while the same threads and questions seemed to get repeatedly asked and answered over and over again. Looking at the current threads it appears not much has changed since then. However it's nice to see an active growing community.
Now I have no doubt these issue have been already discussed previously but i am going to lay another spread on the MMO destroying fall back player incentive of the 'daily quest' and routine 'login chores'
You all know what I'm talking about.... That slightly uncomfortable sensation of feeling forced to log into a game to perk up the (global population statistics) but have no real community input/interaction as you numbly go through the motions to fulfill some arbitrary tasks...then when done, log out because the incentives are not really there to keep playing for FUN.
So what I would like to see from Ashes is no Dailies or Login rewards or accumulative bonuses.
Let me decide my motivations and tasks for the day and give me a drive to not want to log out...not the bread crumbing tactics of trying to keep me logging in.
Any current MMO that has these sort of systems to me appear desperate and not confident in the merit and foundation principles of their game.
Dear Intrepid, do not fall for this genre trope, it will not bode well for the longevity of the game.
I was an active user on the old website but decided to step back while the same threads and questions seemed to get repeatedly asked and answered over and over again. Looking at the current threads it appears not much has changed since then. However it's nice to see an active growing community.
Now I have no doubt these issue have been already discussed previously but i am going to lay another spread on the MMO destroying fall back player incentive of the 'daily quest' and routine 'login chores'
You all know what I'm talking about.... That slightly uncomfortable sensation of feeling forced to log into a game to perk up the (global population statistics) but have no real community input/interaction as you numbly go through the motions to fulfill some arbitrary tasks...then when done, log out because the incentives are not really there to keep playing for FUN.
So what I would like to see from Ashes is no Dailies or Login rewards or accumulative bonuses.
Let me decide my motivations and tasks for the day and give me a drive to not want to log out...not the bread crumbing tactics of trying to keep me logging in.
Any current MMO that has these sort of systems to me appear desperate and not confident in the merit and foundation principles of their game.
Dear Intrepid, do not fall for this genre trope, it will not bode well for the longevity of the game.
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@Uncommon Sense That slightly uncomfortable sensation of feeling forced to log into a game
I hate that bad. I hate the calendar login tracker that shows a "big" prize at the end of the month. Then I miss a day and there goes that treasure box. I feel like they are manipulating me just to get me to log in and buy some stupid thing from their store.
Marketers would say it drives in-game item store profits. I say it makes me want to fart in their general direction.
But that's...like, my opinion man.
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Repetitive quests are boring as hell, however having the ability to go on epic journeys over a huge, huge open world invites great imagination and player immersion.
Was a couple threads recently on this. Most of us agree there should be minimal daily quests.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/47344/daily-quests-yes-or-no/p1
and a long one about log in rewards
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/48009/dev-discussion-26-login-rewards/p1
From skimming through the general consensus to me is that most players don't want them.
With the argument being some players only have a limited time to play due to other life commitment and require* some catch up incentive.
Well. I am of the opinion that other than perhaps rested XP there should be no other forms of catch up hand holding.
That fact that Steven may have implied in the past that it would even be a cosmetic cash shop incentive just irks me.
It's Steven's multi level marking background taking over and not the pure gamer soul we need as an MMO player community.
There is probably going to dailies in Ashes...All I'm saying to Intrepid is consider this choice very carefully because much like the cosmetic cash shop, these consumer manipulations can be detrimental to the overall package and quality of the game.
My opinion is that if the game is designed well enough, then daily login chores should not be a requirement.
It would be nice to somehow still accumulate cosmetic cash shop currency though. Maybe, instead of dailies, give us a way to convert in-game gold to cash shop currency. With the amount of cosmetics in this game (lol), I think that the amount of gold required to buy everything would satisfy even the most hardcore grinder.
Relatable.
I'm really glad Intrepid heard our voice on this.
It is their decision ultimately and even if we get daily rewards, I'm glad they're trying to separate it from the rest of the economy.
Welcome back the constant war of ideas.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
It's funny, I'm not a big fan of PvP. (Mostly because the design of classes sucks in most games, and there's too much crowd control, and because PvP is meaningless in them) But in Ashes, I see many of the late game activities naturally incorporate PvP. Which sounds fun to me (caravan, city/castle sieges)
The only type of dailies I could see that would be engaging in Ashes is that a city requires upkeep. The NPC guards need to be fed/geared up. As far as food goes. Farmlands/Orchards etc around the city, offering quest for new players to keep wild animals away. But for gear, I would hope that some materials required in the upkeep are minable in dangerous zones, requiring some forethought, planning and communication with others.
But typical daily quest grinds? No thanks.
Agreed. The bad ones are dailies that "force" you to do them, oftentimes through being your primary / most efficient way of progression.
I'd like to see weekly tasks, that are aimed around the upkeep of the node, rather than personal gain.
Based on the node level, the community would have to do a certain contingent of tasks each week. A concrete example would be, that witgin a week the community of a city level node has to bring 20.000 (400 population * 50) Stone to maintain the roads around the city.
Failing to do that would reduce the quality of roads and reduce the speed of caravans within its ZOI by up to 50% depending on how severely the node failed for a week. Reaching that goal consecutively each week could instead provide a small but increasing boost.
A similar thing could be done for the city stables, the walls, the religious shrines, marketplace etc.
Yea, I really hope that cities will be proper communities, where you have a reputation and stuff. And not just that everyone does there own thing. The example you gave is beautiful. though I'd go further than just a resource dump, for that's pretty much a solo activity. But things that would require teamwork. Things you -cannot- do alone.
What I mean is you don't -have- to do them if you want to solo (you'll still benefit from bonuses it provides). But if you want to help the city node you're in, make it a team effort. I don't want to say "force" me to play with others. But that's essentially what you do. It's not always content that keeps bringing players back. It's other players, friends you make along the way. And team-focused content helps with that tremendously.
If a daily is a "chore" it's because the reward is too big (compared to other content you could be doing) and/or the task is too boring. So you're only choice for progress is to grind that chore endlessly. That's just poorly designed content/rewards. It can happen regardless of the daily restriction.
Contrary to others, I would actually say that dailies (or weeklies) are perfect for combatting the feeling of repetitive chores, because they limit how long you spend on one activity. They encourage you to briefly dip your toes into each activity without incentivizing you to grind it all day long.
The problem that most dailies have, which people rightfully hate on, is that there are so many dailies that you spend all day doing them, and they often require you to do the most boring content.
The solution is just to make better dailies... Put the best rewards behind more engaging content. Incentivize people to tackle harder content, or go on adventures with a party, or visit a new place. Don't force people to gather wood and grind trash mobs for 3 hours every single day.
And a note on what the "best" rewards are: Gold and materials tend to be low-tier rewards, unless they are needed for top-end gear or it's a ridiculous amount of gold. EXP and gear rewards (or gear tokens) tend to be more enticing for most players. And (good) cosmetics are best at end-game, after players finish the EXP and gear grind.
(Edit: This is tangential to the topic, but just wanna suggest horizontal progression as another good reward. Let people grind for new abilities to play around with. It's such a shame when the gameplay stops evolving at max level.)
But would you do it for a CANNON? I hear bit**es love cannons?
Jokes aside, I agree, but I don't see it as a punishment for people who can't log in daily, but a reward for those who do.
This means that it'll be a matter of what you would earn from said daily chores. If it's something potentially game changing or basically required to be competitive, then it's bad. If not I don't see an issue with it.
Although yeah, I do believe there was some sort of poll a couple of months ago about it and it was quite clear that people didn't want it, so I assume Intrepid will likely not pursue that plan.
'Restrictions' and 'only worth doing' are terrible design mantras. Restrictions are not the same as boundaries. As soon as you implement systems that work outside of the actual game you are in effect diverging away from the core principles if the game. Dailies are not solutions they're a lazy band aids covering up a lack of immersion.
Suggesting they are integrated to prevent 'grinding' is nonsense. look at other games with dailies and you will see players cycling multiple alt characters doing daily cycle runs to 'profit' all why crippling the community aspect.
there a far better solutions to grind farming...(if that even is really a problem?) that the general population will balance out just by natural supply and demand and diminishing returns and resources.
Dailies are not a feature they are a poor implementation of faux 'content' player drive propping up what is really a WEAK game.
Ideally, I want to create a list of what I want to get done, then I decide what from that list I want to work on that day. That way I dictate the content I play. The content doesn't dictate how I play. I don't have to do "chores" before I can get to the content I want to play either. It also could help people find like-minded people in the open world, as you would run into people who enjoy playing the game the same way you enjoy playing. If you were spending most of your time doing the tasks that everyone has to do to stay on top of their chores, you may be less likely to find like-minded people and less likely to interact with the people you do find as you're doing chores and maybe not in the most social mood during it.
I'm unsure how I feel about lockouts when dealing with instanced content. If there is going to be instanced content, I could see it going in either direction on locking out loot and I think I'd be okay with either direction. Although, with certain dungeons/raids only being open at certain node progression points, lockouts could be bad as there may only be a window when that content is available and I would want to run it until my friends and I get the loot we need instead of just rolling the dice once a day or once a week to see if the items drop.
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and lootboxes. and "energy" games.
probably the same person.
Maybe? I don't know.
Divine node governments are chosen from citizens via service oriented quests that prove faith and dedication to the node.[2][3]
religions/faith provide quests for players.
Each node type will have some sort of question mechanic for an array of different quests.
Nodes will have vassals, and those vassals in theory could be all different, so there will be opportunity for them to provide an array of quests as well.
If you're expecting it to be the same 20+ quest each day to farm currency and reputation that becomes clockwork and linear, then my guess is no, there wont be that.
Be interesting to see to the quests evolve with the nodes stage and type as the creeps in surround area will too.
Can this be applied to everything? No absolutely not, this will bring it's own issues aswell. Yet again I don't like the idea of dailies but sometimes it needs to be done in some sort of way. I hope IF they will add dailies that they will implement it in a different way. One that doesn't give us a bad feeling if we forgot to do them one day or just straight up don't feel like doing.
On a similar note, I do not mind rewarding players for longevity of play. A thank you for the veterans that adds nothing more than a visual element is nice.
Agreed will be interesting to see what they do.
However if a Divine metro has been there for 6 months or more everyone trying to be mayor will have done all the quest lines and so forth. So now we need to ask what now? How do people continue to show alligance to the node or does the mayorship just change hands every 30 days because there are no more quests to be done.
Hopefully they come up with a good answer other then daily quests.
Having tasks available through the node system on a 24hr time loop as a community building exercise is not what I was really referring to. even having roaming NPC daily quest givers...though that's about the as far as I could tolerate.
When i say no chores, I don't mean not farming,crafting,fishing, gathering and mercenary work etc.
I refer to the the Login busy work and imbued tasks most current mainstream MMOs employ.
The primary issue is the login open popup tab window (accept) checklist types of daily quests. Messy interface types of daily quests. The log in no effort participation reward type quests. Or any obligatory login task that implies a forced action due to a FOMO but detracts from your actual personal play drive and motivation.
As long as they dont feel forced or like chores, I agree on this. I think they have a lot of opportunities to do this with the Node system, but its really just going to come down to their implementation.
Login rewards are meh to me. I don't like the idea of users simply logging in once for a reward or a streak, simply to log back out. Idk, thats just me.
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Login rewards are terrible, but daily tasks to fulfill certain jobs you as a player chose are good!
I think i mentioned it in another comment, but things like if you choose to grow herbs for potions, you'd have to water plants daily for them to grow. Or milking cows if you need milk, etcetc.
Agreed with your definition.
Anything like this is a attack on player agency and should be fought vigorously. It is not just about FOMO it is about having the freedom to do the things I want to do without the game telling me what I ought to do.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.