Would it be good if downed state gets into Ashes?

Hello everyone!

I thought I would start a topic about if it's a good idea to implement "downed state" into Ashes, when we are seriously injured. This is not a new thing in MMOs, Guild Wars 2 has it already. GW2 had a lot of new and great mechanics when it released, like awesome dodging, a great skill system and the downed state. I think downed state would fit Ashes with a few modifications.

My opinion about how to do it:

- if you're down, you have 10 seconds to get back to your feet with the help of an ally, and your HP gets lower and lower during this time like if you have a DOT, maybe represented in a different color than normally
- we wouldn't need skills attached to the downed state, like in GW2, it would mean more work for the devs and it's unnecessary, it doesn't give that much value to the gameplay
- downed state would work in PvE and PvP, giving an extra dimension to battles
- being brought back from downed state by an ally would give us 15% HP by default, but clerics would be able to "raise" from a distance and they would give more HP with that
- when downed we would be able to slowly crawl on the ground
- we wouldn't be able to "raise" ourselves, or only with a very unique and hard-to-get skill
- if we skip the process during raising someone, we would need to start it over and the victim would continue to bleed out
- raising someone would not be interruptable with normal skills, or most of them, only with CC skills, this would be logical

I think downed state would bring an extra dimension to gameplay, as dodge did long ago (and dodge is used almost everywhere nowadays). Downed state is also getting into more and more games and it gives extra fun in PvE and PvP everywhere.

What do you think? Would it be good if downed state gets into Ashes?

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Comments

McShave

I'm not sure if I like this idea, sounds too much like main stream shooter games. It's kinda rp breaking imo, and not really necessary since we have resurrections in the game. It is rather unfortunate that only one class will have a resurrection ability, that we know of as of now, but if it's castable in combat, then works for me.

Vhaeyne

IMO:
No, it makes it too easy to get people back into the fight.

One thing that I hate is when games make it so that it is possible to raise dead during combat. The difference in difficulty is always lower if people can be raised in combat.

When someone falls in combat, I want them out of the fight until the dust settles. No second chances. No dumb GW2 downed states. Clear and simple death.

NchDu

I loved the GW2 combat system and in doing so also the downed state (and the super adventure box nuclear explosion finischer^^) but it has to be mentioned that GW2 doesn´t use the holy trinity. All classes are DDs with utility spells and some sort of self-healing. If I remember right there isn´t even a reviving skill (just played the original GW2)

In AoC there will be clear-cut roles: tank, cleric, and DDs guessing with lots of heal spells rez, and probably combat rezzes. I dont think the "downed state" fits into such combat and probably will make fights endlessly long.

bloodprophet

God I hope not.
Everyone involved with the system from base idea to implemention should be ashamed of themselves for this horrible idea. It is not of the biggest reasns I hate GW2.
A hard CC by the dev team is simply a bad idea!
I have high hopes for this game and hope they don't make bad choices like having this kind of stuff.

Warth

not a friend of the downed state. Where would you see its advantages? I think death should matter. If you kill someone, said someone should be out of the fight for a good while

Ramirez

Noooooo i hated that in gw2

Khronus

This would be bad IMO. It would prevent us from having cool abilities. Imagine being in a large fight against a tank/healer group just picking each other up using invulnerability or shield effects. They wouldn't give us these abilities to make it fair. OR they would give us these abilities but prevent their effect from being useful so at that point, what's the point.

FuryBladeborne

Personally, I liked the idea. It did make dying more fun as intended by ArenaNet. However, I never liked that being downed never resulted in immediate death. Due to realism in an RPG and fun, I think that players should sometimes survive as barely alive and bleeding out and be able to crawl (or roll) away into cover until someone can slap bandage them up.

Personally, I would like a downed system where the player survived with the suggested conditions in the OP post only about 10-20% of the time when downed. While this would help to keep dying interesting, it wouldn't be enough to cause the situation where a decently large group of players is able to always revive any downed players in a very short time that makes it impossible to whittle the large group down.

Also, the GW2 downed skills were too strong. I had plenty of matches that came down to the person who was downed first would win due to how the health bar changed when downed and the fact that the player would stand back up if downing the other. In fact, if already downed Player A can do DPS to down Player B, then downing Player B should not self revive Player A. It is just a frustrating and overpowered mechanic to deal with.

bloodprophet

1+ HP is surviving
Less then 1HP is not surviving. Back to respawn for you.

Hellfar

No need for a downed state in AoC due to the holy trinity existing, like @NchDu mentioned above. It works well for GW2 since there are no "rez" spells in the game. Anyone being able to revive a downed player defeats the purpose of the holy trinity imo.

GW2 handles the downed state quite well, although I'm coming from the PvE side of things. But it suites the game well due to lack of holy trinity.

Good thoughts though. I do hope AoC takes away other great elements from GW2 but with their own twist.

Frostshot1

I hope they don't introduce a downstate like GW2. I don't want a combat downstate like they have.

Now I would not mind if you could do finishers to force a downed player back to the re spawn point. Also allowing friendly players to cast a revive spell to bring you back to life, before your cool down timer pops and forces you back to the re spawn. This would be ok. But I don't want to see lop sided down state abilities like in GW2.

Naterdoo

I would hate to see downed states in this game. A resurrection skill for priests would probably be fine if balanced correctly. I see talk here about GW2 but I don't think it's really been explained why it's bad in GW2.

In PvE, I believe that the downed state is great for the game. It gives you that last chance to pick yourself back up by killing an enemy or it allows for another player to pick you back up during the fight. For casual PvE it works.

For PvP arenas, it's straight up annoying.

Every class in GW2 has a different set of downed skills and it makes certain classes naturally stronger than others. The necromancer is hands down the best downed state in the game. If the battle is close where the necro is downed first and his opponent has a little bit of health yet, the necro just wins. His auto attack ability heals the necro and can even pull himself out of downed state. The warrior, on the other hand, throws rocks and hammers.

Every class also has a way to interrupt finisher moves. A finisher move is channeled move that will finish off a player if it is completed. Since every class can cancel that finisher move, it becomes highly annoying to use said finisher move unless the downed person wastes their interrupt. This usually results in the standing player mashing their dps rotation to finish you off instead.

That's still not all. When you're trying to finish off a downed person and his teammate comes to his rescue and starts to revive him, you better hope you don't have any cooldowns. It's comedic how sometimes the standing enemy can tank your hits and outheal his teammate at the same time while you struggle in futility to make him stop. If the standing player has the stability boon and has built a tankier build, you can just forget getting any kills.

My point here is that GW2's downed state mechanic works for PvE and really sucks for PvP. I'm sure you could balance a downed state for AoC with the removal of downed state skills and being able to interrupt revivals more easily but I'm still opposed to it. If I take someone to 0hp, I want to be rewarded with a kill and it's as simple as that. Downed states just unnecessarily prolong fights.

And I've heard that Intrepid plans on making death punishing so I would think that implementing downed states wouldn't be on their radar whatsoever but who's to say?

TL;DR I don't like downed states. GW2 did downed states for PvP and I hate it.

Azryil

Dead is dead, that downed state crap you see in BRs has no place in an MMO. If you die, your only options should be some form of a corpse run or get resurrected by another player.

Biccus

I'll add to the absolutely not list on a downed state.
Can you imagine how hard it'd be to win a siege if all the ranged enemies would just get downed behind a wall and back in the fight 10 seconds later?

Gannito

If your life reaches zero, you are dead. Stop states.

Another thing is "silence", "frozen" etc.

Daerax

I hate the idea you could bring people up during combat in that way. Also don't think you should be able to do anything in downed state except possibly slowly crawling away. Having an option to get someone up (out of combat only) in short window of time after you have managed to defeat the whatever encounter you got yourself into doesn't necessarily sound bad in smaller scale pvp/pve like farming or duo/trio leveling especially if ress will be limited to clerics only. But it really can get problematic with aggro resets (if there will be any eg. WoW vanish or ice block) or above mentioned sieges to say a few. I think it would be so hard to make it unexploitable, that it would be better to not have it in game at all. That said, if you had option to either get the player up or execute them, it would surely bring some cool RP moments.

Bladen

No I strongly disagree with downed state.

xDrac

I'm also not really a fan of downed states

Gbolt

Downed state in GW2 is terrible. And this game is gonna be a lot different than GW2, so I think there is no place for such mechanic. Its a gimmick that does not add any value in my opinion, just makes PvP awkward.

ogre

imo when you die you should die and need to be resurrected or otherwise healed by a party member or other player. I’ve always found “down states” to be more of annoyance than a convenience.

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