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Bard Class - Class Design

ArcheonArcheon Member
edited April 2021 in General Discussion
To be honest I have absolutely no intention of playing a Bard haha I personally am thinking Shadowblade, Weapon Master, Spell Sword or High Sword.

However I thought this would be an interesting approach for the Bard:

The classes key mechanic plays around a combo system; at a base level the class receives for example 3 abilities, these are called chords, which have differing effects depending on what is targeted:

Power Chord:
The Bard lets out a Power Chord, unleashing the power of the tune they are playing. (Chords can only be played at a maximum of 3 concurrent Chords, the last played Chord will overwrite the oldest played Chord)
(10 Second Cool Down)

Chord A - 2 Second Cooldown
Targeting Friendly:
1 Application - Buffs attack/cast speed by A amount (Target's Party).
2 Application - Buffs attack/cast speed by B amount (Target's Party).
3 Application - Buffs attack/cast speed by C amount (Target's Party).
Power Chord - Buffs attack/cast speed and all damage by D amount (Target's Party).

Targeting Hostile:
1 Application - Deals A Damage and increases damage taken by B.
2 Application - Deals C Damage and increases damage taken by D.
3 Application - Deals E Damage and increases damage taken by F.
Power Chord - Deals G Damage and increases damage taken by H to all Non-CC'd targets within 10 metres of primary target.

Chord B - 2 Second Cooldown
Targeting Friendly:
1 Application - Increases Movement speed by A (Target's Party).
2 Application - Increases Movement speed by B (Target's Party).
3 Application - Increases Movement speed by C (Target's Party).
Power Chord - Increases Movement speed by D and grants immunity to CC and movement impairment (Target's Party).

Targeting Hostile:
1 Application - Slows Movement by A for 5 seconds on all hostile targets within 10 metres of primary target.
2 Application - Slows Movement by B for 5 seconds on all hostile targets within 10 metres of primary target.
3 Application - Slows Movement by C for 5 seconds on all hostile targets within 10 metres of primary target.
Power Chord - Slows Movement and Attack speed by D for 5 seconds on all hostile targets within 10 metres of primary target and Stuns primary target for 5 seconds.


Chord C - 2 Second Cooldown
Targeting Friendly:
1 Application - A Healing over Time on (Target's Party).
2 Application - B Healing over Time on (Target's Party).
3 Application - C Healing over Time on (Target's Party).
Power Chord - Consumes Healing over Time and Instantly Heals for D.(Target's Party).

Targeting Hostile:
1 Application - A Damage over Time to target for 10 seconds.
2 Application - B Damage over Time to target for 10 seconds.
3 Application - C Damage over Time to target for 10 seconds.
Power Chord - Applies D Damage over time to all non-CCed hostile targets within 10 metres of primary target for 10 seconds.



The Bard could also mix and match these chords, to for example if they wanted to damage over time slow and heal, however the played power chord would result in a less powerful version of the relevant final effects.

Some other flavour abilities could be:

Power Slide
(30 second Cooldown)
The Bard Slides forward for 10 Meters knocking Targets to either side, and increasing Allies movement speed along this path.

Encore
(5 Minute Cooldown)
The part repeats their past Power Chord instantly, without the need to replay their Chords.

Idk just and idea, what do you all think?

EDIT: Its fairly easy to imagine how the bard class could then augment other classes abilties if its chosen as their secondary, through granting other classes abilities lesser chords etc.

EDIT EDIT:
This shouldnt be looked at as literally a system about music, the names are place holders, the idea being conveyed is the mechanics:
As insight to the idea I was looking to moderate pace and rhythm, through the cooldowns and effects, for example when dealing damage the bards telling this fast paced frantic story so they are spamming their damage key and hitting the power ballad as fast as they can emulating that pace, while when healing they telling this sort of soothing tale and letting the healing over time effects tick out till their last drop before bolstering a big heal, a slower paced rhythm for a soothing tale...

Comments

  • squeeteesqueetee Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I like this concept. Makes it very musically oriented. And different instruments could be used for different visual/audio effects making each bard a bit more unique.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Bards may not just be about music, they may also tell stories.

    Different stories may help in different ways. Stories of the gods may help against dark creatures, and stories about each specific god (if the bard knows those stories) may provide different benefits. Or loudly telling a story of the winter may scare the enemies and make fire spells more potent. There are plenty of possibilities.
  • ArcheonArcheon Member
    edited April 2021
    tautau wrote: »
    Bards may not just be about music, they may also tell stories.

    Different stories may help in different ways. Stories of the gods may help against dark creatures, and stories about each specific god (if the bard knows those stories) may provide different benefits. Or loudly telling a story of the winter may scare the enemies and make fire spells more potent. There are plenty of possibilities.

    its pretty easy to change the name of the abilities, they are just placeholders, the post is regarding whether it works from a thematic and technical stand point, power chord could be crescendo and be talking about the most intense and gripping part of a story, and chords could be renamed to something like Climactic Relief or Rallying Tale... I think you have approached this too much of a literal perspective.

    The consideration is whether this would immersively feel like you are a bard when playing with this system/mechanics, rather then just cast shout cast heal cast play guitar, which i dont think would fit the theme of a bard... the entire class revolves themtically around rythm, melody or pace, and telling a story which would instictively fit into some sort of combination system mechanically.

    EDIT I mean for complete immersion the name of the abilities could change based on the instrument you have equipped, however I would forsee that as a nightmare for scripting, however the reality is the class needs to be mechanically nailed down and tangible, rather then hypothetical about what it might be or do.

    As insight to the idea I was looking to moderate pace and rhythm, through the cool down and effects, for example when dealing damage the bards telling this fast paced frantic story so they are spamming their damage key and hitting the power ballad as fast as they can emulating that pace, while when healing they telling this sort of soothing tale and letting the healing over time effects tick out till their last drop before bolstering a big heal, a slower paced rhythm for a soothing tale... haha might add that to the initial post since people might take it too literally based on the names.
  • tautau wrote: »
    Bards may not just be about music, they may also tell stories.

    Different stories may help in different ways. Stories of the gods may help against dark creatures, and stories about each specific god (if the bard knows those stories) may provide different benefits. Or loudly telling a story of the winter may scare the enemies and make fire spells more potent. There are plenty of possibilities.

    My dreams of talking a boss to death are real????
    Handsome-Jakx.png
  • The trick is going to be giving it enough offensive potential to be viable by itself, as well as giving it the defensive power needed to buff a team, like the damage skills they've given the Cleric. I remember I put some suggestions into that Dev Discussion a while back on Ideal Class. I'd just love to see Intrepid's ideas for the Bard archetype. Anything at all. Just something... Please?!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • ArcheonArcheon Member
    edited April 2021
    daveywavey wrote: »
    The trick is going to be giving it enough offensive potential to be viable by itself, as well as giving it the defensive power needed to buff a team, like the damage skills they've given the Cleric. I remember I put some suggestions into that Dev Discussion a while back on Ideal Class. I'd just love to see Intrepid's ideas for the Bard archetype. Anything at all. Just something... Please?!

    I definitely agree, thats why I think its important that a Bards utility comes passively through everything it does, and that way it will remain viable in no matter role it wants to perform, will a raid want a player who provides a damage amplification buff on the boss? hell yes! thats why the Bard's damage not only provides benefits for themself but also everyone else, will a raid want a class which can DoT multiple enemies while also doing damage, or healing or enhancing the raid? hell yes! haha idk, that kind of drove my rationality behind this suggestion.


    Classes which are linear and 2 dimensional generally are the first to be cut when you are looking to optimise a raid, for example in some raids if a class like a Shadowblade, Spell blade or Weapon Master's only utility is to do damage and they do less damage then a mage or rogue, then the Shadowblade, Spell blade or Weapon Master will get dropped instantly in place of another mage or rogue.

    Through building classes three dimensionally so that their abilities affect not only themselves but those around them, it increases their viability though their utility.
  • Archeon wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    The trick is going to be giving it enough offensive potential to be viable by itself

    Would it be possible for Bard primary's to have a quill and parchment for offense, and perhaps a flute for buffing?

    I haven't thought about this too long, but maybe a system where they can essentially change their toolkit on the fly which would allow them to adjust between solo and group content on the fly. (maybe add a whole new action bar with a new set of abilities as they change their "stance" or in this case, instrument.

    Not that the bard has to be 100% about music, though I think it should
  • ArcheonArcheon Member
    edited April 2021
    Chandler wrote: »
    Archeon wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    The trick is going to be giving it enough offensive potential to be viable by itself

    Would it be possible for Bard primary's to have a quill and parchment for offense, and perhaps a flute for buffing?

    I haven't thought about this too long, but maybe a system where they can essentially change their toolkit on the fly which would allow them to adjust between solo and group content on the fly. (maybe add a whole new action bar with a new set of abilities as they change their "stance" or in this case, instrument.

    Not that the bard has to be 100% about music, though I think it should



    that sounds very cool :smiley: , although id hate to think how much work that would be for the devs given they would in effect be designing 2 classes though having double the abilities a buffing and offensive version.

    I think one of the issues is that noone has ever really done the bard successfully before, so there isnt alot of rerference to draw upon, just lots of ideas of what it should be, idk it will be interesting to see what IS comes out with.

    I think thats definitely a cool idea though, that the type of weapon you use should influence how the class plays.
  • Archeon wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    The trick is going to be giving it enough offensive potential to be viable by itself, as well as giving it the defensive power needed to buff a team, like the damage skills they've given the Cleric. I remember I put some suggestions into that Dev Discussion a while back on Ideal Class. I'd just love to see Intrepid's ideas for the Bard archetype. Anything at all. Just something... Please?!

    I definitely agree, thats why I think its important that a Bards utility comes passively through everything it does, and that way it will remain viable in no matter role it wants to perform, will a raid want a player who provides a damage amplification buff on the boss? hell yes! thats why the Bard's damage not only provides benefits for themself but also everyone else, will a raid want a class which can DoT multiple enemies while also doing damage, or healing or enhancing the raid? hell yes! haha idk, that kind of drove my rationality behind this suggestion.


    Classes which are linear and 2 dimensional generally are the first to be cut when you are looking to optimise a raid, for example in some raids if a class like a Shadowblade, Spell blade or Weapon Master's only utility is to do damage and they do less damage then a mage or rogue, then the Shadowblade, Spell blade or Weapon Master will get dropped instantly in place of another mage or rogue.

    Through building classes three dimensionally so that their abilities affect not only themselves but those around them, it increases their viability though their utility.

    I'd be interested to see your thoughts on the Bard suggestions I made in the "Ideal Class" Dev Discussion: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/48283/dev-discussion-27-ideal-class/p6

    I like the idea of chaining similar skills together for extra buffs. So, if you were using a Music Spell, there would be certain spells available depending on where you were in the chain, so you start with a Music Spell, carry on with a Pattern, back to a Music Spell, etc. Or a Story Spell which refreshes when you cast another Story Spell on it, etc.

    And also a few solo-type skills like "Monologue" that actively encourage fighting by yourself.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • arsnnarsnn Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    Haha this reminds me a lot of my suggestion thread i did a while ago. „Making the bard the maestro of groupplay“ with aura based abilities as a key component of his abilitiy kit.

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45685/bard-the-maestro-of-group-play
  • ArcheonArcheon Member
    edited April 2021
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Archeon wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    The trick is going to be giving it enough offensive potential to be viable by itself, as well as giving it the defensive power needed to buff a team, like the damage skills they've given the Cleric. I remember I put some suggestions into that Dev Discussion a while back on Ideal Class. I'd just love to see Intrepid's ideas for the Bard archetype. Anything at all. Just something... Please?!
    I actually really like that take on it


    I definitely agree, thats why I think its important that a Bards utility comes passively through everything it does, and that way it will remain viable in no matter role it wants to perform, will a raid want a player who provides a damage amplification buff on the boss? hell yes! thats why the Bard's damage not only provides benefits for themself but also everyone else, will a raid want a class which can DoT multiple enemies while also doing damage, or healing or enhancing the raid? hell yes! haha idk, that kind of drove my rationality behind this suggestion.


    Classes which are linear and 2 dimensional generally are the first to be cut when you are looking to optimise a raid, for example in some raids if a class like a Shadowblade, Spell blade or Weapon Master's only utility is to do damage and they do less damage then a mage or rogue, then the Shadowblade, Spell blade or Weapon Master will get dropped instantly in place of another mage or rogue.

    Through building classes three dimensionally so that their abilities affect not only themselves but those around them, it increases their viability though their utility.

    I'd be interested to see your thoughts on the Bard suggestions I made in the "Ideal Class" Dev Discussion: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/48283/dev-discussion-27-ideal-class/p6

    I like the idea of chaining similar skills together for extra buffs. So, if you were using a Music Spell, there would be certain spells available depending on where you were in the chain, so you start with a Music Spell, carry on with a Pattern, back to a Music Spell, etc. Or a Story Spell which refreshes when you cast another Story Spell on it, etc.

    And also a few solo-type skills like "Monologue" that actively encourage fighting by yourself.
    arsnn wrote: »
    Haha this reminds me a lot of my suggestion thread i did a while ago. „Making the bard the maestro of groupplay“ with aura based abilities as a key component of his abilitiy kit.

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45685/bard-the-maestro-of-group-play

    haha niiice yeah i can see that,

    I think in all honesty if players give the devs multitude of ideas and feedback it offers them a near infinite resource from which they can draw upon, if they want, in designing the class, and that way we actually help to create the exact game which everyone wants.
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