Recluse74 wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Atama wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Is there any specific info about death penalties for non-combatant player killed by corrupted one? Would standard death penalties apply to non-combatant even if he fights back? It makes no sense to me that green player would suffer 50% penalty if he fought back against combatant, but had no way of avoiding 100% penalty when attacked by corrupted player. It would also be possibly exploitable. If you target someone specifically for the materials he's been farming for some time. It could be beneficial to kill a friend first, get yourself corrupted and then kill the player you targeted with guaranteed 100% of possilble loot from him, if the corruption for 2 PKs isn't that hard to clear off. I think there should either be an option for non-combatant to flag against corrupted player if he chooses so (there are obviousely some issues with that), or you should suffer 50% penalty if you fight back even if you die as non-combatant (with possibly lower corruption gained for the already corrupted player compared to killing someone who doesn't fight back at all). Yes, if you are green, and get attacked by a red player, and fight back, you die as green. Dying in PvP as green means you suffer the full death penalty.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging#Player_death I have the same concerns as you, and I really hope they add the ability for a green player to voluntarily flag themselves as purple against a red player to avoid the loophole. I think this is on purpose. Corrupt players have almost all of the risk when they engage in PvP due to the loss of gear factor. And since this game is risk reward based, the red should have the advantage of gaining something of value for attacking a non combatant, because if they lose.. it could be a huge loss. Its like Poker.. one player has a quarter of their chips on the table and the other is all in. Well, considering the purpose of the system, I don't really think it's true, even if it would fit the risk vs reward principle. I am pretty sure there should come no advantage from this system for the red player since it is punishment and it's meant to discourage players from doing something. Also, it would be risk vs reward for the corrupted player, but from the other perspective it makes no sense. Why should green player be punished for being killed by corrupted player compared to anyone else. Sure, he can potentially get something more for killing the red, but quite often it won't be the case anyway (depending on the PK session being planned or not, level difference etc.). I just don't see any reason why the choice between defending yourself or not shouldn't have same consequences regardless of who attacks you. Every action in this game should have a positive and a negative, even going corrupt. If the only gain for going red is personal fun, it will soon be overridden by penalties and major loss. If penalties and major loss are the only outcomes for going red, there is no purpose for it in the game at all. The purpose of the corruption system is to give players a way to take out frustrations, offer an alternate source of gameplay if that is what one enjoys and to cause friction on the server (Im sure there are more reasons, just listed these). If a player is gathering materials that you need for crafting, but you are not high enough level to gather that material... then going red on that player should give you a chance to get that material as a drop from a PK. Which in turn cause friction, which cause PvP, which makes the server go round. I do not think this will be a common thing, but it will happen. I know if I was short two pieces of some type of high level metal to craft a top tier weapon.. I might chance a PK on someone gathering that metal to see if I get lucky to get. The risk is getting killed afterwards, and losing more than I gained.
Daerax wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Atama wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Is there any specific info about death penalties for non-combatant player killed by corrupted one? Would standard death penalties apply to non-combatant even if he fights back? It makes no sense to me that green player would suffer 50% penalty if he fought back against combatant, but had no way of avoiding 100% penalty when attacked by corrupted player. It would also be possibly exploitable. If you target someone specifically for the materials he's been farming for some time. It could be beneficial to kill a friend first, get yourself corrupted and then kill the player you targeted with guaranteed 100% of possilble loot from him, if the corruption for 2 PKs isn't that hard to clear off. I think there should either be an option for non-combatant to flag against corrupted player if he chooses so (there are obviousely some issues with that), or you should suffer 50% penalty if you fight back even if you die as non-combatant (with possibly lower corruption gained for the already corrupted player compared to killing someone who doesn't fight back at all). Yes, if you are green, and get attacked by a red player, and fight back, you die as green. Dying in PvP as green means you suffer the full death penalty.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging#Player_death I have the same concerns as you, and I really hope they add the ability for a green player to voluntarily flag themselves as purple against a red player to avoid the loophole. I think this is on purpose. Corrupt players have almost all of the risk when they engage in PvP due to the loss of gear factor. And since this game is risk reward based, the red should have the advantage of gaining something of value for attacking a non combatant, because if they lose.. it could be a huge loss. Its like Poker.. one player has a quarter of their chips on the table and the other is all in. Well, considering the purpose of the system, I don't really think it's true, even if it would fit the risk vs reward principle. I am pretty sure there should come no advantage from this system for the red player since it is punishment and it's meant to discourage players from doing something. Also, it would be risk vs reward for the corrupted player, but from the other perspective it makes no sense. Why should green player be punished for being killed by corrupted player compared to anyone else. Sure, he can potentially get something more for killing the red, but quite often it won't be the case anyway (depending on the PK session being planned or not, level difference etc.). I just don't see any reason why the choice between defending yourself or not shouldn't have same consequences regardless of who attacks you.
Recluse74 wrote: » Atama wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Is there any specific info about death penalties for non-combatant player killed by corrupted one? Would standard death penalties apply to non-combatant even if he fights back? It makes no sense to me that green player would suffer 50% penalty if he fought back against combatant, but had no way of avoiding 100% penalty when attacked by corrupted player. It would also be possibly exploitable. If you target someone specifically for the materials he's been farming for some time. It could be beneficial to kill a friend first, get yourself corrupted and then kill the player you targeted with guaranteed 100% of possilble loot from him, if the corruption for 2 PKs isn't that hard to clear off. I think there should either be an option for non-combatant to flag against corrupted player if he chooses so (there are obviousely some issues with that), or you should suffer 50% penalty if you fight back even if you die as non-combatant (with possibly lower corruption gained for the already corrupted player compared to killing someone who doesn't fight back at all). Yes, if you are green, and get attacked by a red player, and fight back, you die as green. Dying in PvP as green means you suffer the full death penalty.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging#Player_death I have the same concerns as you, and I really hope they add the ability for a green player to voluntarily flag themselves as purple against a red player to avoid the loophole. I think this is on purpose. Corrupt players have almost all of the risk when they engage in PvP due to the loss of gear factor. And since this game is risk reward based, the red should have the advantage of gaining something of value for attacking a non combatant, because if they lose.. it could be a huge loss. Its like Poker.. one player has a quarter of their chips on the table and the other is all in.
Atama wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Is there any specific info about death penalties for non-combatant player killed by corrupted one? Would standard death penalties apply to non-combatant even if he fights back? It makes no sense to me that green player would suffer 50% penalty if he fought back against combatant, but had no way of avoiding 100% penalty when attacked by corrupted player. It would also be possibly exploitable. If you target someone specifically for the materials he's been farming for some time. It could be beneficial to kill a friend first, get yourself corrupted and then kill the player you targeted with guaranteed 100% of possilble loot from him, if the corruption for 2 PKs isn't that hard to clear off. I think there should either be an option for non-combatant to flag against corrupted player if he chooses so (there are obviousely some issues with that), or you should suffer 50% penalty if you fight back even if you die as non-combatant (with possibly lower corruption gained for the already corrupted player compared to killing someone who doesn't fight back at all). Yes, if you are green, and get attacked by a red player, and fight back, you die as green. Dying in PvP as green means you suffer the full death penalty.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging#Player_death I have the same concerns as you, and I really hope they add the ability for a green player to voluntarily flag themselves as purple against a red player to avoid the loophole.
Daerax wrote: » Is there any specific info about death penalties for non-combatant player killed by corrupted one? Would standard death penalties apply to non-combatant even if he fights back? It makes no sense to me that green player would suffer 50% penalty if he fought back against combatant, but had no way of avoiding 100% penalty when attacked by corrupted player. It would also be possibly exploitable. If you target someone specifically for the materials he's been farming for some time. It could be beneficial to kill a friend first, get yourself corrupted and then kill the player you targeted with guaranteed 100% of possilble loot from him, if the corruption for 2 PKs isn't that hard to clear off. I think there should either be an option for non-combatant to flag against corrupted player if he chooses so (there are obviousely some issues with that), or you should suffer 50% penalty if you fight back even if you die as non-combatant (with possibly lower corruption gained for the already corrupted player compared to killing someone who doesn't fight back at all).
Daerax wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Atama wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Is there any specific info about death penalties for non-combatant player killed by corrupted one? Would standard death penalties apply to non-combatant even if he fights back? It makes no sense to me that green player would suffer 50% penalty if he fought back against combatant, but had no way of avoiding 100% penalty when attacked by corrupted player. It would also be possibly exploitable. If you target someone specifically for the materials he's been farming for some time. It could be beneficial to kill a friend first, get yourself corrupted and then kill the player you targeted with guaranteed 100% of possilble loot from him, if the corruption for 2 PKs isn't that hard to clear off. I think there should either be an option for non-combatant to flag against corrupted player if he chooses so (there are obviousely some issues with that), or you should suffer 50% penalty if you fight back even if you die as non-combatant (with possibly lower corruption gained for the already corrupted player compared to killing someone who doesn't fight back at all). Yes, if you are green, and get attacked by a red player, and fight back, you die as green. Dying in PvP as green means you suffer the full death penalty.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging#Player_death I have the same concerns as you, and I really hope they add the ability for a green player to voluntarily flag themselves as purple against a red player to avoid the loophole. I think this is on purpose. Corrupt players have almost all of the risk when they engage in PvP due to the loss of gear factor. And since this game is risk reward based, the red should have the advantage of gaining something of value for attacking a non combatant, because if they lose.. it could be a huge loss. Its like Poker.. one player has a quarter of their chips on the table and the other is all in. Well, considering the purpose of the system, I don't really think it's true, even if it would fit the risk vs reward principle. I am pretty sure there should come no advantage from this system for the red player since it is punishment and it's meant to discourage players from doing something. Also, it would be risk vs reward for the corrupted player, but from the other perspective it makes no sense. Why should green player be punished for being killed by corrupted player compared to anyone else. Sure, he can potentially get something more for killing the red, but quite often it won't be the case anyway (depending on the PK session being planned or not, level difference etc.). I just don't see any reason why the choice between defending yourself or not shouldn't have same consequences regardless of who attacks you. Every action in this game should have a positive and a negative, even going corrupt. If the only gain for going red is personal fun, it will soon be overridden by penalties and major loss. If penalties and major loss are the only outcomes for going red, there is no purpose for it in the game at all. The purpose of the corruption system is to give players a way to take out frustrations, offer an alternate source of gameplay if that is what one enjoys and to cause friction on the server (Im sure there are more reasons, just listed these). If a player is gathering materials that you need for crafting, but you are not high enough level to gather that material... then going red on that player should give you a chance to get that material as a drop from a PK. Which in turn cause friction, which cause PvP, which makes the server go round. I do not think this will be a common thing, but it will happen. I know if I was short two pieces of some type of high level metal to craft a top tier weapon.. I might chance a PK on someone gathering that metal to see if I get lucky to get. The risk is getting killed afterwards, and losing more than I gained. But I don't think you should be able to prepare for the attack by killing your friend/alt/random bystander to guarantee higher reward for killing that player by taking away his option to flag back. .
Recluse74 wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Atama wrote: » Daerax wrote: » Is there any specific info about death penalties for non-combatant player killed by corrupted one? Would standard death penalties apply to non-combatant even if he fights back? It makes no sense to me that green player would suffer 50% penalty if he fought back against combatant, but had no way of avoiding 100% penalty when attacked by corrupted player. It would also be possibly exploitable. If you target someone specifically for the materials he's been farming for some time. It could be beneficial to kill a friend first, get yourself corrupted and then kill the player you targeted with guaranteed 100% of possilble loot from him, if the corruption for 2 PKs isn't that hard to clear off. I think there should either be an option for non-combatant to flag against corrupted player if he chooses so (there are obviousely some issues with that), or you should suffer 50% penalty if you fight back even if you die as non-combatant (with possibly lower corruption gained for the already corrupted player compared to killing someone who doesn't fight back at all). Yes, if you are green, and get attacked by a red player, and fight back, you die as green. Dying in PvP as green means you suffer the full death penalty.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging#Player_death I have the same concerns as you, and I really hope they add the ability for a green player to voluntarily flag themselves as purple against a red player to avoid the loophole. I think this is on purpose. Corrupt players have almost all of the risk when they engage in PvP due to the loss of gear factor. And since this game is risk reward based, the red should have the advantage of gaining something of value for attacking a non combatant, because if they lose.. it could be a huge loss. Its like Poker.. one player has a quarter of their chips on the table and the other is all in. Well, considering the purpose of the system, I don't really think it's true, even if it would fit the risk vs reward principle. I am pretty sure there should come no advantage from this system for the red player since it is punishment and it's meant to discourage players from doing something. Also, it would be risk vs reward for the corrupted player, but from the other perspective it makes no sense. Why should green player be punished for being killed by corrupted player compared to anyone else. Sure, he can potentially get something more for killing the red, but quite often it won't be the case anyway (depending on the PK session being planned or not, level difference etc.). I just don't see any reason why the choice between defending yourself or not shouldn't have same consequences regardless of who attacks you. Every action in this game should have a positive and a negative, even going corrupt. If the only gain for going red is personal fun, it will soon be overridden by penalties and major loss. If penalties and major loss are the only outcomes for going red, there is no purpose for it in the game at all. The purpose of the corruption system is to give players a way to take out frustrations, offer an alternate source of gameplay if that is what one enjoys and to cause friction on the server (Im sure there are more reasons, just listed these). If a player is gathering materials that you need for crafting, but you are not high enough level to gather that material... then going red on that player should give you a chance to get that material as a drop from a PK. Which in turn cause friction, which cause PvP, which makes the server go round. I do not think this will be a common thing, but it will happen. I know if I was short two pieces of some type of high level metal to craft a top tier weapon.. I might chance a PK on someone gathering that metal to see if I get lucky to get. The risk is getting killed afterwards, and losing more than I gained. But I don't think you should be able to prepare for the attack by killing your friend/alt/random bystander to guarantee higher reward for killing that player by taking away his option to flag back. . So to make sure I get this right, you are saying it is unfair that the person about to PK someone has a chance to prepare for the fight, while the person minding his own business is not prepared... correct? If yes.. you are 100% correct, it is not fair and I hate when happens to me. But everyone who has played under this system can tell you, you will live again and you will recover. But it does suck the first few times. Soon you will start paying to your surroundings better, know that you should stop pulling mobs if someone is watching you from a short distance. If you see someone running at you after you pull a mob.. run away till the mob resets, then chose to fight, or keep running till you get around other players which will usually make the attacker choose an easier target. In the end though... systems like this will give you trust issues lol.
bloodprophet wrote: » Pretty sure you can force flag yourself for a time. Think one of the videos they said currently set as Ctl+F. Death penalties won't change for the green between being killed by a red or purple it will be the same for both. Only the PK'er loses here. Short story don't be a jerk and it will be ok.
Recluse74 wrote: » I could of sworn I read or heard it mentioned that a player who is not flagged does have a chance to lose more of their materials in the inventory.. and the penalties were less if they fought back. So if you had 10 cabbages in your inventory and you get PK'd, you would lose 5, and if you flagged back and died, you would lose only 2. Made up numbers there in that statement, but that was the basics of what I heard. Of course not remember the source does not give this any credit, so please do not take this as fact.
Atama wrote: » bloodprophet wrote: » Pretty sure you can force flag yourself for a time. Think one of the videos they said currently set as Ctl+F. Death penalties won't change for the green between being killed by a red or purple it will be the same for both. Only the PK'er loses here. Short story don't be a jerk and it will be ok. Oh I wish we could but no, there is no force flag planned for launch (right now it's just for testing, sigh). If there was there would be no problem. Again, glaring oversight. Of course there is no change for the green whether a red or purple kills them. That's not the point. The point is that if a purple attacks a green, the green can fight back and make themselves purple. If they die, they only suffer half of the penalties. You have no choice if a red attacks you. Recluse74 wrote: » I could of sworn I read or heard it mentioned that a player who is not flagged does have a chance to lose more of their materials in the inventory.. and the penalties were less if they fought back. So if you had 10 cabbages in your inventory and you get PK'd, you would lose 5, and if you flagged back and died, you would lose only 2. Made up numbers there in that statement, but that was the basics of what I heard. Of course not remember the source does not give this any credit, so please do not take this as fact. The info is right there in the link I provided. If you die as green you will suffer the following: 1) You take on experience debt, which temporarily reduces your stats, HP and mana, gives you worse gear proficiency, and you get a worse drop rate from monsters. All of that is in place until you earn back the XP debt to clear it. 2) Your equipment loses durability (just like WoW and most other MMOs). That means your gear loses stats until repaired, and at 0% gear can't be worn until repaired. 3) You drop a percentage of gatherables and processed goods. And you lose a percentage of certificates you earn that you can trade in for stuff at NPCs. If you die to a player while flagged purple, the same thing happens to you, but at half the rate. So you take half the XP debt, suffer half the equipment durability, and drop half the stuff (crafting goods and certificates) you normally would. That is the incentive to flagging purple other than simply indicating a willingness to PvP; if someone kills you it's only half as bad. If you die while flagged red, by the way, you suffer 4 times as much as you would if you were green, and at high levels of corruption you can drop actual gear. So it sucks, by design. Corruption is something you aren't supposed to want, it's intended to be the negative consequence for engaging in non-consensual combat. The only good thing for the corruptee is that your corruption lessens on death.
bloodprophet wrote: » https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7Y-D5R0IY At 1:10:05 Steven is talking about the flagging system. Needing to hold alt or ctrl when you attack allows you to attack someone. When the attack lands you then flag. With reds being considered "monsters/mobs" this will most likely not work against them. I think this will be subject to testing and may change or may not. I personally think it is fine as is. PKing people is not meant to be a viable play style and rewarded. a green losing a few more cabbages vs a red rising dropping competed items seems like a fair trade to me. Players are flagged as combatants if they attack another player when carrying out a forced attack. If the attacked players fight back, they are also flagged as combatants, otherwise the attacked player will remain flagged as a non-combatant.[91] Don't think friends killing you would work as long as the toon is your guild or alliance. Seems like there was a quote from Steven on this at some point. Not finding right now I'll look more later unless some one posts it first.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP The open world PvP flagging system is designed to deter people from griefing other players.[88]
Daerax wrote: » bloodprophet wrote: » https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7Y-D5R0IY At 1:10:05 Steven is talking about the flagging system. Needing to hold alt or ctrl when you attack allows you to attack someone. When the attack lands you then flag. With reds being considered "monsters/mobs" this will most likely not work against them. I think this will be subject to testing and may change or may not. I personally think it is fine as is. PKing people is not meant to be a viable play style and rewarded. a green losing a few more cabbages vs a red rising dropping competed items seems like a fair trade to me. Players are flagged as combatants if they attack another player when carrying out a forced attack. If the attacked players fight back, they are also flagged as combatants, otherwise the attacked player will remain flagged as a non-combatant.[91] Don't think friends killing you would work as long as the toon is your guild or alliance. Seems like there was a quote from Steven on this at some point. Not finding right now I'll look more later unless some one posts it first.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP The open world PvP flagging system is designed to deter people from griefing other players.[88] I mean, it is fine. In the end, this is really minor issue and the system will do it's job regardless. But it really seems more like an oversight than anything that just doesn't really make sense. And from the perspective of the killed green player, it just feels bad. I mean, if you farm something for 2 hours and then get killed, it really won't affect you in the long run if you lose 15 or 30 minutes worth of cabbages (numbers are random ofc). But just the fact you couldn't do anything about it while in most other similar scenarious, you had that option would be super annoying, much more than losing those items themselves I believe. Especially if you lose double amount of something more rare or if you get killed two or more times (if it would be possible, depending on the distance you will respawn at etc). I admit, that exploiting it by getting red ahead of time is probably a bit of a stretch. But it is still something that could possibly happen and I don't really see a good reason for this option even existing. And if I understand the design philosophy behind corruption correctly, it shouldn't offer any direct benefits, no matter how little. It may be fine, but I can't find any good reason why it should be like that. It's fine just because it wouldn't matter that much anyway, which isn't really something you want to see.
George Black wrote: » Many people have played mmos in which every second side quest gives you a sword and armor that carry you for the next 5 levels. Then they end up at endgame content in a week and they farm bound gear from trials that once picked up stays on your inventory. They have never experienced a game where a single pair of boots would take weeks to find the design and gather the 800 materials needed for the craft. A full gear set would carry you for the next 2 months if not more. They dont understand that chosing to PK somebody is a great risk. They think that everyone is out to grief them. Laughable concerns, boardering paranoia and self importance delusions. On the other hand there are the players that reached lv cap in a week, doing non challenging story questlines that you can complete naked and bare handed. They ran 3-4 dungeons or BGs for a couple days and got geared up with high end items. Once that was over, all they cared for was BGs and war modes/zones 24/7, until they got bored and went on to max out a new toon in a week. In AoC you will need to spend time to lv up, lv up your weapon playstyle and wealth path. Gather materials, craft gear in order to venture into deeper zones for good xp. You need friends. This isn't a lobby game for you to jump in Q and start killing other players. They dont understand that the flagging/PK system is necessary in a challenging PvX game. AoC will be a brand new experience for many of you. There is 0 chance that the core systems in place that have a clear objective will change.
George Black wrote: » Gemstones D grade.......
