DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited April 2021
I dunno.
Seems like what people are missing is that non-combatants are not punished for not flagging.
Dying as a non-combatant means you have the normal death penalty. It is just the normal penalties for dying.
Combatants are rewarded for flagging - and that is really a reward for a fair fight - combatant v combatant.
That reward is the death penalty being halved.
Non-combatants v Corrupted isn't a fair fight. If the non-combatant loses it's normal death penalty. Same as fighting a mob.
Corrupted basically become monsters. If the Corrupted wins, their Corruption goes up a bunch. Which should cause them to give pause when attacking greens, rather than the Corrupted hoping the green flags to purple... because if the Corrupted dies while their opponent is purple, they won't gain as much Corruption.
Killing greens means the Corrupted's Corruption score goes up super quickly. If they could entice greens to flag as purple, their Corruption score would rise fairly slowly.
It's better for greens (the ones who don't like PvP combat) to not be able to flag as purple.
Because it makes it way less likely that a Corrupted will hunt greens. It's better for Corrupted if they hunt purples.
If you're a green who wants to hunt Corrupted, become a Bounty Hunter.
I dunno.
Seems like what people are missing is that non-combatants are not punished for not flagging.
Dying as a non-combatant means you have the normal death penalty. It is just the normal penalties for dying.
Combatants are rewarded for flagging - and that is really a reward for a fair fight - combatant v combatant.
That reward is the death penalty being halved.
Non-combatants v Corrupted isn't a fair fight. If the non-combatant loses it's normal death penalty.
Same as fighting a mob. Corrupted basically become monsters. If the Corrupted dies, their Corruption goes up a bunch. Which should cause them to give pause when attacking greens, rather than the Corrupted hoping the green flags to purple... because if the Corrupted dies while their opponent is purple, they won't gain as much Corruption.
Killing greens means the Corrupted's Corruption score goes up super quickly. If they could entice greens to flag as purple, their Corruption score would rise fairly slowly.
It's better for greens (the ones who don't like PvP combat) to not be able to flag as purple.
Because it makes it way less likely that a Corrupted will hunt greens. It's better for Corrupted if they hunt purples.
If you're a green who wants to hunt Corrupted, become a Bounty Hunter.
One thing to remember is that Corrupted/Red players also lose PvP stats.. so they are weaker against players while corrupt.
The reason why a non-combatant going after a Corrupted/Red player still gives you the normal penalty for death, is the risk reward that is prevalent all throughout this game. You are risking another death, but if you kill the corrupt player, you could be rewarded with a piece or more of the Corrupted players gear and or materials on them.
At the same time, if you as a non-combatant are going after a Corrupted/Red player, the corrupted player has a choice to make as well.. Does he run away so he does not gain more corruption, or does he stay and fight knowing his PvP stats are now lower than they were? I just do not see them sticking around to find out most of the time.
Over time, the consequences for going corrupt will start to weigh on the entire population and make people think before doing so. And the ones who do, may get away with a few times, but sooner or later, they always pay, and they pay big.
In Lineage 2, in my guild of 25ish people ... 3 people in my guild went corrupt their entire time in game.. 2 of those players went corrupt one time, and then I went more than that... most of that on one player I had beef with since launch. He just really got under my skin as a role player.. lol. Not that I have something against role players, it was just the part he decided to play. He did it well.. I give him props.
Wait.. I lied... I did have one guild member who had a level 18 dark elf dagger user that was his PK alt. He added it up one day and he had spent nearly 300k gold keeping him equipped, and found it to not be worth it in the satisfaction to money loss ratio lol.
Wait.. I lied... I did have one guild member who had a level 18 dark elf dagger user that was his PK alt. He added it up one day and he had spent nearly 300k gold keeping him equipped, and found it to not be worth it in the satisfaction to money loss ratio lol.
Great post!!!
Yeah. If I were OK with griefing, I would have a couple PK zombie alts and see how high I could get my Corruption score before being destroyed. Which is one of the reasons why I'm skeptical about Corruption being the deterrent it's hyped to be.
Wait.. I lied... I did have one guild member who had a level 18 dark elf dagger user that was his PK alt. He added it up one day and he had spent nearly 300k gold keeping him equipped, and found it to not be worth it in the satisfaction to money loss ratio lol.
Great post!!!
Yeah. If I were OK with griefing, I would have a couple PK zombie alts and see how high I could get my Corruption score before being destroyed. Which is one of the reasons why I'm skeptical about Corruption being the deterrent it's hyped to be.
Players always think it is going to be a blast to have a PK alt, and it probably is early on when the corruption penalties are only minor and easily worked off. But as the penalties add up, one PK can either cost you your entire gear set you had on, through multiple deaths trying to work it off... or way too many hours of work to actually work it off. Either way.. I cannot think of any sane person who would want to pay $15 a month just to lose in game items and time due to being corrupt. Unless it is their final way of quitting the game.. which I have seen many of times.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If I have a PK zombie alt. I don't care about the gear. I want the gear to be decaying too. Typically, I have tons of trash gear of all levels anyways.
I am Braver of Worlds, so I wouldn't be paying $15 a month.
Also, I wouldn't just be losing items because those items are on an alt.
My main would be progressing normally - without Corruption.
If I have a PK zombie alt. I don't care about the gear. I want the gear to be decaying too. Typically, I have tons of trash gear of all levels anyways.
I am Braver of Worlds, so I wouldn't be paying $15 a month.
Also, I wouldn't just be losing items because those items are on an alt.
My main would be progressing normally - without Corruption.
Well, your main will not be losing items, but your alt will... which will have to be replaced, and replaced mostly from your main character. When corrupt, you have will have no way to get into town to replace your gear unless you work off your corruption first, which is possible, but over time it will take longer and longer, which is when people start relying on their main to fund the alt. Which again will be costly over time.
I am guessing Braver of Worlds is you are pre paid through access to the testing, which is awesome for you, cannot wait to hear your observations from the game when the NDA goes away.
If I have a PK zombie alt. I don't care about the gear. I want the gear to be decaying too. Typically, I have tons of trash gear of all levels anyways.
I am Braver of Worlds, so I wouldn't be paying $15 a month.
Also, I wouldn't just be losing items because those items are on an alt.
My main would be progressing normally - without Corruption.
The game is all about letting you do this.
Thing is, as stated above, there is a limit to how long you will be able to do this.
Gear isn't the limit. It is an expense, but not the limit.
The limit is PK count. As that gets higher, you earn more corruption per kill, which means more of a penalty in PvP.
It won't take long before your alt is so penalized with corruption that a character half their level can easily take them on, and that corruption would be more work to clear than the alt is worth.
Even if you do work that corruption off, since your PK count is so high, one more kill and you have a mountain of corruption to work off again.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Well, your main will not be losing items, but your alt will... which will have to be replaced, and replaced mostly from your main character. When corrupt, you have will have no way to get into town to replace your gear unless you work off your corruption first, which is possible, but over time it will take longer and longer, which is when people start relying on their main to fund the alt. Which again will be costly over time.
I am guessing Braver of Worlds is you are pre paid through access to the testing, which is awesome for you, cannot wait to hear your observations from the game when the NDA goes away.
That alt would be a Zombie. I want the armor to be falling off.
As I said before, I typically have tons of trash armor in the bank. Acquiring armor probably won't be a problem.
We'll have to see if it's possible to trade armor or even equip new armor while Corrupted, but...
It really doesn't matter. I'm not going to want to work off Corruption. The whole point of having the Zombie is to be as Corrupt as possible and see how long that alt can survive.
I guess if you don't RP, it's difficult to wrap your mind around, but...you've actually helped me figure out some ways to do this without griefing. So, I'm definitely going to give this a go. Probably with at least a couple of Corrupted Zombies.
The point, for me, is to have a Corrupted Zombie running around in the world. It's not really about surviving combat.
I bought a Kickstarter package, so...I have access without a subscription.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited April 2021
In L2, some players that had reached near max level retired their character to play a different class turned that disused character into a permanent pk character. With such high pk counts they were unrecoverable.
They would park them somewhere strategic and the perma reds would stay hidden and anonymous and just come out when needed. Online for a few fleeting minutes then not online again for days or weeks.
Common for bot killing parties but also used on occasions to clear dungeons of other players.
They would run solo or have other players at their side to assist if there was resistance.
With high level skills & attributes that could now be taken away, even kitted up with expendable gear, they were still quite powerful.
The way I see it in AoC, bounty hunter system will have limited impact for those that play that way. As they would need to be too quick.
Only real inhibiter may end up being the loss of fighting effectiveness dampened by higher karma. But this is not measurable at this point in time so pure speculation.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If the Corrupted dies, their Corruption goes up a bunch. Which should cause them to give pause when attacking greens, rather than the Corrupted hoping the green flags to purple... because if the Corrupted dies while their opponent is purple, they won't gain as much Corruption.
Um, no... This is the opposite of what happens. If a corrupted character dies, they lose corruption, they don't gain it. That's the only guaranteed way to lose corruption that we know of. (There may be quests that reduce corruption too but I don't think that's confirmed as being a guaranteed thing, so far that's just a possible part of the system.)
If the Corrupted dies, their Corruption goes up a bunch. Which should cause them to give pause when attacking greens, rather than the Corrupted hoping the green flags to purple... because if the Corrupted dies while their opponent is purple, they won't gain as much Corruption.
Um, no... This is the opposite of what happens. If a corrupted character dies, they lose corruption, they don't gain it. That's the only guaranteed way to lose corruption that we know of. (There may be quests that reduce corruption too but I don't think that's confirmed as being a guaranteed thing, so far that's just a possible part of the system.)
Gaining experience also removes corruption, people will need to grind mobs.
If the Corrupted dies, their Corruption goes up a bunch. Which should cause them to give pause when attacking greens, rather than the Corrupted hoping the green flags to purple... because if the Corrupted dies while their opponent is purple, they won't gain as much Corruption.
Um, no... This is the opposite of what happens. If a corrupted character dies, they lose corruption, they don't gain it. That's the only guaranteed way to lose corruption that we know of. (There may be quests that reduce corruption too but I don't think that's confirmed as being a guaranteed thing, so far that's just a possible part of the system.)
Gaining experience also removes corruption, people will need to grind mobs.
Indeed.
This replaced the idea they had with a corruption reducing quest. Though I think that idea has now been moved over to lowering PK count, which originally wasn't a part of the system but is now.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If the Corrupted dies, their Corruption goes up a bunch. Which should cause them to give pause when attacking greens, rather than the Corrupted hoping the green flags to purple... because if the Corrupted dies while their opponent is purple, they won't gain as much Corruption.
Um, no... This is the opposite of what happens. If a corrupted character dies, they lose corruption, they don't gain it. That's the only guaranteed way to lose corruption that we know of. (There may be quests that reduce corruption too but I don't think that's confirmed as being a guaranteed thing, so far that's just a possible part of the system.)
Sorry. I miss-wrote that (I didn't have enough sleep).
Thanks for the catch!!
"If the Corrupted wins" is what I meant to write.
Comments
Seems like what people are missing is that non-combatants are not punished for not flagging.
Dying as a non-combatant means you have the normal death penalty. It is just the normal penalties for dying.
Combatants are rewarded for flagging - and that is really a reward for a fair fight - combatant v combatant.
That reward is the death penalty being halved.
Non-combatants v Corrupted isn't a fair fight. If the non-combatant loses it's normal death penalty. Same as fighting a mob.
Corrupted basically become monsters. If the Corrupted wins, their Corruption goes up a bunch. Which should cause them to give pause when attacking greens, rather than the Corrupted hoping the green flags to purple... because if the Corrupted dies while their opponent is purple, they won't gain as much Corruption.
Killing greens means the Corrupted's Corruption score goes up super quickly. If they could entice greens to flag as purple, their Corruption score would rise fairly slowly.
It's better for greens (the ones who don't like PvP combat) to not be able to flag as purple.
Because it makes it way less likely that a Corrupted will hunt greens. It's better for Corrupted if they hunt purples.
If you're a green who wants to hunt Corrupted, become a Bounty Hunter.
One thing to remember is that Corrupted/Red players also lose PvP stats.. so they are weaker against players while corrupt.
The reason why a non-combatant going after a Corrupted/Red player still gives you the normal penalty for death, is the risk reward that is prevalent all throughout this game. You are risking another death, but if you kill the corrupt player, you could be rewarded with a piece or more of the Corrupted players gear and or materials on them.
At the same time, if you as a non-combatant are going after a Corrupted/Red player, the corrupted player has a choice to make as well.. Does he run away so he does not gain more corruption, or does he stay and fight knowing his PvP stats are now lower than they were? I just do not see them sticking around to find out most of the time.
Over time, the consequences for going corrupt will start to weigh on the entire population and make people think before doing so. And the ones who do, may get away with a few times, but sooner or later, they always pay, and they pay big.
In Lineage 2, in my guild of 25ish people ... 3 people in my guild went corrupt their entire time in game.. 2 of those players went corrupt one time, and then I went more than that... most of that on one player I had beef with since launch. He just really got under my skin as a role player.. lol. Not that I have something against role players, it was just the part he decided to play. He did it well.. I give him props.
Wait.. I lied... I did have one guild member who had a level 18 dark elf dagger user that was his PK alt. He added it up one day and he had spent nearly 300k gold keeping him equipped, and found it to not be worth it in the satisfaction to money loss ratio lol.
Yeah. If I were OK with griefing, I would have a couple PK zombie alts and see how high I could get my Corruption score before being destroyed. Which is one of the reasons why I'm skeptical about Corruption being the deterrent it's hyped to be.
Players always think it is going to be a blast to have a PK alt, and it probably is early on when the corruption penalties are only minor and easily worked off. But as the penalties add up, one PK can either cost you your entire gear set you had on, through multiple deaths trying to work it off... or way too many hours of work to actually work it off. Either way.. I cannot think of any sane person who would want to pay $15 a month just to lose in game items and time due to being corrupt. Unless it is their final way of quitting the game.. which I have seen many of times.
I am Braver of Worlds, so I wouldn't be paying $15 a month.
Also, I wouldn't just be losing items because those items are on an alt.
My main would be progressing normally - without Corruption.
Well, your main will not be losing items, but your alt will... which will have to be replaced, and replaced mostly from your main character. When corrupt, you have will have no way to get into town to replace your gear unless you work off your corruption first, which is possible, but over time it will take longer and longer, which is when people start relying on their main to fund the alt. Which again will be costly over time.
I am guessing Braver of Worlds is you are pre paid through access to the testing, which is awesome for you, cannot wait to hear your observations from the game when the NDA goes away.
Thing is, as stated above, there is a limit to how long you will be able to do this.
Gear isn't the limit. It is an expense, but not the limit.
The limit is PK count. As that gets higher, you earn more corruption per kill, which means more of a penalty in PvP.
It won't take long before your alt is so penalized with corruption that a character half their level can easily take them on, and that corruption would be more work to clear than the alt is worth.
Even if you do work that corruption off, since your PK count is so high, one more kill and you have a mountain of corruption to work off again.
As I said before, I typically have tons of trash armor in the bank. Acquiring armor probably won't be a problem.
We'll have to see if it's possible to trade armor or even equip new armor while Corrupted, but...
It really doesn't matter. I'm not going to want to work off Corruption. The whole point of having the Zombie is to be as Corrupt as possible and see how long that alt can survive.
I guess if you don't RP, it's difficult to wrap your mind around, but...you've actually helped me figure out some ways to do this without griefing. So, I'm definitely going to give this a go. Probably with at least a couple of Corrupted Zombies.
The point, for me, is to have a Corrupted Zombie running around in the world. It's not really about surviving combat.
I bought a Kickstarter package, so...I have access without a subscription.
They would park them somewhere strategic and the perma reds would stay hidden and anonymous and just come out when needed. Online for a few fleeting minutes then not online again for days or weeks.
Common for bot killing parties but also used on occasions to clear dungeons of other players.
They would run solo or have other players at their side to assist if there was resistance.
With high level skills & attributes that could now be taken away, even kitted up with expendable gear, they were still quite powerful.
The way I see it in AoC, bounty hunter system will have limited impact for those that play that way. As they would need to be too quick.
Only real inhibiter may end up being the loss of fighting effectiveness dampened by higher karma. But this is not measurable at this point in time so pure speculation.
Gaining experience also removes corruption, people will need to grind mobs.
Indeed.
This replaced the idea they had with a corruption reducing quest. Though I think that idea has now been moved over to lowering PK count, which originally wasn't a part of the system but is now.
Thanks for the catch!!
"If the Corrupted wins" is what I meant to write.