I said toxicity will be present without DPS meters , DPS meters will not make it worst or better. Really what kind of players do you think your going to be playing with in a open world pvp game?
I know what you said. We don't agree.
Steven also does not agree with you.
When it comes to DPS meters, I don't care at all about PvPers.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I know what you said. We don't agree.
Steven also does not agree with you.
When it comes to DPS meters, I don't care at all about PvPers.
I knew Steven from Archeage , the game was extremely toxic and damage meters had nothing to do with that at all. It is the nature of a pvp environment and pvp players. Steven is just trying to sugar coat his game but he knows better and he was a ruthless player himself in Archeage.
I said toxicity will be present without DPS meters , DPS meters will not make it worst or better. Really what kind of players do you think your going to be playing with in a open world pvp game?
I know what you said. We don't agree.
Steven also does not agree with you.
Actually, Steven had said that at best, not having combat trackers will have a minimal effect on the over all toxicity of the game, and it is likely that it will have no effect at all.
So, Steven does agree with him. It's just you that doesn't.
Aye, as somebody who is anti-combat trackers, I have to agree that toxicity really isn't about the use of trackers, it's about competitiveness. A game that features FFA PvP with death penalties is going to have a level of toxicity that is automatically higher than a game without.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
And still less toxicity than if DPS meters were also included.
Yeah every mmo has toxicity in it , it just more unavoidable in a open world pvp games because hell of a lot more toxic players are drawn to these kind of games.
If a game has a combat log it has the essential component of a combat tracker.
So if Steven wants no combat tracking, then the game should have no combat log.
Likewise, any visible information on health and damage could effectively be compiled into a rudimentary combat tracker. So that needs to go too.
Anyone think they can create a pristine MMORPG with open world PVP that has zero toxicity, which is subjective anyway, has a nearly impossible job. Forget the design or the systems. It’s the human element that introduces the behavior some choose to call toxic. And from there it starts becoming an argument over what’s toxic to which people. A vicious, never ending cycle.
Let players play and provide the tools for them to find solutions.
By throwing out combat tracking to mitigate the outliers you are also punishing the abilities of players to improve their character’s performance in a positive way. You may in fact cause a group that would have worked with a poor performing player to help them get better to instead just boot them. Nice job. When your expectations are that everyone’s a jerk, everyone becomes a jerk.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited May 2021
I don't think anyone has said anything about a pristine MMORPG except you.
I assumed that RPG players would not be jerks. Group leaders using DPS meters too often are, even when I had no clue it was a thing before encountering it.
I don't think anyone has said anything about a pristine MMORPG except you.
I assumed that RPG players would not be jerks. Group leaders using DPS meters too often are, even when I had no clue it was a thing before encountering it.
Group leaders can be jerks with or without a combat tracker.
A combat tracker doesn't make it any easier to be a jerk, or increase the number of times they will be jerks. All a combat tracker is in this situation is the thing they wave in front of them while being a jerk.
I am of the personal opinion that if someone has met a large number of group leaders that are jerks, then it is likely that person that is bringing that out in them, at least some of the time - as many of us have never really seen this first hand and only ever heard of it as hearsay.
It perhaps shouldn't be needed to be pointed out, if someone is bringing out the jerk in others, combat trackers are not the issue.
Comments
Steven also does not agree with you.
When it comes to DPS meters, I don't care at all about PvPers.
I knew Steven from Archeage , the game was extremely toxic and damage meters had nothing to do with that at all. It is the nature of a pvp environment and pvp players. Steven is just trying to sugar coat his game but he knows better and he was a ruthless player himself in Archeage.
Actually, Steven had said that at best, not having combat trackers will have a minimal effect on the over all toxicity of the game, and it is likely that it will have no effect at all.
So, Steven does agree with him. It's just you that doesn't.
There is no reason at all to assume this.
Simply not true at all , very telling you don't play games that have a lot of pvp players in a open pvp world.
Yeah, Wizard101 doesnt have open world PvP.
Yeah every mmo has toxicity in it , it just more unavoidable in a open world pvp games because hell of a lot more toxic players are drawn to these kind of games.
So if Steven wants no combat tracking, then the game should have no combat log.
Likewise, any visible information on health and damage could effectively be compiled into a rudimentary combat tracker. So that needs to go too.
Anyone think they can create a pristine MMORPG with open world PVP that has zero toxicity, which is subjective anyway, has a nearly impossible job. Forget the design or the systems. It’s the human element that introduces the behavior some choose to call toxic. And from there it starts becoming an argument over what’s toxic to which people. A vicious, never ending cycle.
Let players play and provide the tools for them to find solutions.
By throwing out combat tracking to mitigate the outliers you are also punishing the abilities of players to improve their character’s performance in a positive way. You may in fact cause a group that would have worked with a poor performing player to help them get better to instead just boot them. Nice job. When your expectations are that everyone’s a jerk, everyone becomes a jerk.
I assumed that RPG players would not be jerks. Group leaders using DPS meters too often are, even when I had no clue it was a thing before encountering it.
Group leaders can be jerks with or without a combat tracker.
A combat tracker doesn't make it any easier to be a jerk, or increase the number of times they will be jerks. All a combat tracker is in this situation is the thing they wave in front of them while being a jerk.
I am of the personal opinion that if someone has met a large number of group leaders that are jerks, then it is likely that person that is bringing that out in them, at least some of the time - as many of us have never really seen this first hand and only ever heard of it as hearsay.
It perhaps shouldn't be needed to be pointed out, if someone is bringing out the jerk in others, combat trackers are not the issue.