You either win or you lose the castle siege. You either get pked or you kill the pker. In Ashes a lot of the systems are designed in away where if you don't succeed and somebody else succeeds. Where everybody doesn't just get a participation prize from showing up. Is everything that isn't a win a loss? No but there will be a lot of things some people will never get to do, get to complete or get to have. That's okay. It's also not toxic to have this in a game.
Did someone in this thread refer to any of that as toxic or is that just something you made up in your own head about what people refer to as toxic??
I mean the entire thread is about general toxicity in the community and a not insignificant number of people believe the forced PvP parts of the game will be the primary source of that toxicity.
If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
You either win or you lose the castle siege. You either get pked or you kill the pker. In Ashes a lot of the systems are designed in away where if you don't succeed and somebody else succeeds. Where everybody doesn't just get a participation prize from showing up. Is everything that isn't a win a loss? No but there will be a lot of things some people will never get to do, get to complete or get to have. That's okay. It's also not toxic to have this in a game.
Did someone in this thread refer to any of that as toxic or is that just something you made up in your own head about what people refer to as toxic??
I mean the entire thread is about general toxicity in the community and a not insignificant number of people believe the forced PvP parts of the game will be the primary source of that toxicity.
Ok this is real rich coming from OP. Bro you blocked entire guilds because you disagreed with what people were saying. Maybe I'm wrong, but people who can't stomach being challenged on an idea and call everyone who disagrees with them "toxic" are the toxic people. OP is toxic imo, and you can't prove me wrong because the burden of proof is on the accused. See how that works? Yeah good luck with your "talkshow" since you're just in here farming for subject matter to blather on about for 3 hours.
At some point you need to wonder, is it really all these other people or is it just me?
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
This thread kind of proves toxicity will be alive and well in Ashes. A few old school mmo players talking in the forums is not reflection of what the community will be like and pvp games will draw in more toxic players.
MMO's are guaranteed to have a base level of toxicity, but whatever I saw in the threads isn't real toxicity yet. Go play League of Legends for 1 day and then you can say if this is toxic or not. xD
U.S. East
1
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I mean the entire thread is about general toxicity in the community and a not insignificant number of people believe the forced PvP parts of the game will be the primary source of that toxicity.
Forced PvP is toxic. Which is why, in Ashes, forced PvP is penalized with Corruption.
MMO's are guaranteed to have a base level of toxicity, but whatever I saw in the threads isn't real toxicity yet. Go play League of Legends for 1 day and then you can say if this is toxic or not. xD
Sunshine and rainbows. I see no toxic here. Aoc is most carebear game ever.
IF you just observe the Ashes Discord you will see what I'm talking about. (most commonly the guild chat channel). The forums are very civil and miles better than the first impression the Discord gives off. I've talked to a lot of people in the community and the majority won't even use the Ashes Discord for this reason.
Someone also pointed out to me that there are thousands of people in there and probably 99.99% of them don't talk, so the level of toxicity may be small. The ones who do are usually the loud mouthed toxic players, and anyone who tried to start a conversation will usually get discouraged as one or more of the toxic players will belittle that person and try to shun them away.
0
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The Discord Guild channel is pretty toxic from what I recall, but...
I rarely hang out in Discord and when I do, it's never in the Guild channel.
The Questions channel seems fine. And the General channel is typically OK.
Guys, let's be honest with each other: toxicity is the part of every game. Well, almost every game. For instance, I came here from Arma 2 DayZ Epoch and I can say that people who are playing shooters -- can also be toxic. However, I still have a dream of some kind of gaming utopia with zero tolerance to toxicity.
I've been bullied by my guild just because I was reading a book https://amazon.com/dp/B094NMRWPJ and they were not. Simple book! Can you imagine that?
I find that the people who react to the toxicity the most strongly are usually in denial about their own behavior. With that said, I think the lack of fast travel, the need for a community, and the lack of available resources will force certain types of symbiotic and socially acceptable behavior.
Especially if they never allow name changes, that'll be huge too.
I'm not sure what your point is. In games just like IRL you get toxic people, if you want to ignore them just block them, that's what I do. Not worth the hassle of someone trying to argue with you for no reason.
This is a beyond simplistic perspective. You can't just block a player sharing the same game as you as their actions still matter. I brought up the point that the culture in gaming is trending negative and people are just accepting that behavior. Saying "There are just bad people out there" is confirming that point. You've already accepted it and consider it normal.
They would have to implement ways to avoid mass reporting because of 1 person for those kinds of systems to exist. Streamers often get people banned for laughs just because they tell a good quarter of the server to report a single person. Often for no reason. That is the problem with built in systems for this kind of thing.
It's more important to build the game around stopping abuse of systems than to build with the community in mind. If players don't have an avenue to essentially cheat then they won't. If they are able to cheat then they will take it 100% of the time. The game is already built to punish toxicity in many ways. Especially if there won't be server linking system and the only people you see are on your server. If they maintain the servers properly then there shouldn't be like 100 different servers. xD It may be wise to have more at the start and if it turns out you don't need them, then fuse them into other servers in the same regions.
I don't necessarily believe the mentality that players always only seek to benefit themselves with balance recommendations, but there will always be those with that in mind. Those are the kind of people that run around telling people they are playing the wrong build and not having fun in the right way. They are a plague to the genre because MMO's often aren't built so that min/maxing is the only way to beat the content. All it does is alienate people who want to play certain viable ways and makes them quit leaving the morons behind.
The problem with WoW's community is often that they chased all of the players people like away and all that was left was the toxic assholes. It's impossible to have a balanced community when they are all toxic assholes. A lot of the players that never say anything in WoW are actually nice players who learned to not talk because no one ever had anything good to say.
With classic WoW I also play a few days behind the min/maxing crowd on purpose because you get better interactions with the stragglers.
I'd agree with pretty much all of this.
" I brought up the point that the culture in gaming is trending negative and people are just accepting that behavior."
Back in the old school, we did handle this with dry looting. Old school PKing was certainly abrasive, but again to me a toxic player is the one who isn't even aware that their behavior is toxic.
To me, the PvEr who bashes PvP constantly and constantly harps on the actions of others, is nuclear toxicity.
I find that the people who react to the toxicity the most strongly are usually in denial about their own behavior. With that said, I think the lack of fast travel, the need for a community, and the lack of available resources will force certain types of symbiotic and socially acceptable behavior.
Especially if they never allow name changes, that'll be huge too.
This is such an ironic comment coming from an Enveus member. If you're in the most toxic guild and participate in such your opinion is worth nothing.
The things that use to keep people in check don't really exist anymore. It's very possible for entire servers to just die out do to having a terrible player base. This happened in WoW Classic. A game that once housed a metric crap ton of servers now supports very few. True vets who desire community will leave when their environment sucks, and the result can lead to the death of the server. Without players it doesn't matter how good the game is because MMOs are meant to be played massively... hence the name.
You can look at an MMO and it´s community, as looking on what social media, the Internet as a whole, and what that has done to human interactions in real life.
In school, we got assignments, and we had to
* Get together in groups
* Go to the library
* Decide amongst ourselves the work dividing
* Borrow books
* Do the work, study and complete the task
* Return the books
Draw a line from that to an MMO, and you see what´s lacking.
The biggest issues that spark and ignite a lot of interactions in games, are the lack of social interactions. People are bored, and they start poking each other with sticks to mess about. At a degree, it´s fine...but many do not understand that enough is enough. Boredom breeds bad manners in some.
You get to fast travel everywhere, you que up to battlegroups or PVP or raids on the spot and are teleported away...you have it all in a neat little menu, and you don´t need to do anything.
Gamers should have to do some actual legwork, gather groups and relocate, not just click a button.
We share ONE game, so things need to be considered for what benefits all in the best way possible.
I find that the people who react to the toxicity the most strongly are usually in denial about their own behavior. With that said, I think the lack of fast travel, the need for a community, and the lack of available resources will force certain types of symbiotic and socially acceptable behavior.
Especially if they never allow name changes, that'll be huge too.
This is such an ironic comment coming from an Enveus member. If you're in the most toxic guild and participate in such your opinion is worth nothing.
The things that use to keep people in check don't really exist anymore. It's very possible for entire servers to just die out do to having a terrible player base. This happened in WoW Classic. A game that once housed a metric crap ton of servers now supports very few. True vets who desire community will leave when their environment sucks, and the result can lead to the death of the server. Without players it doesn't matter how good the game is because MMOs are meant to be played massively... hence the name.
The reason why people are reluctant to agree with you on this topic is because you equate getting meme'd on with being toxic. The truth is they are complete different things. You overreacted because somebody made a joke at your expense. Had you not people wouldn't fixate on you but your reaction draws us in.
It's okay if people make jokes at your expense. Laugh it off and move on. Wait for them to slip up and meme on them. It's the same thing as dying in a game. Figure out why you lost, fix it and move on. Kill them the next time you fight them. Prom is a pretty good guy for this. If you ever unblock him and watch his interactions you will see this. He will make jokes at other people's expenses all the time but he will also take jokes at his expense. You on the other hand can't take a joke.
I'd also like to make it abundantly clear that I think that outright bullying.... where you go out of your way to exclude somebody or where you make fun of their race/sex/orientation... that's something completely different. That needs to be moderated and from what I have seen the moderators have done a pretty good job at dealing with this. But having a joke made at your expense and then blocking anybody who laughed at the joke is only making yourself a bigger joke. The reason you can tell that this is the case because it isn't just one guild that's laughing at you but rather anybody who knows the inside story of your original reaction.
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
You can look at an MMO and it´s community, as looking on what social media, the Internet as a whole, and what that has done to human interactions in real life.
In school, we got assignments, and we had to
* Get together in groups
* Go to the library
* Decide amongst ourselves the work dividing
* Borrow books
* Do the work, study and complete the task
* Return the books
Draw a line from that to an MMO, and you see what´s lacking.
The biggest issues that spark and ignite a lot of interactions in games, are the lack of social interactions. People are bored, and they start poking each other with sticks to mess about. At a degree, it´s fine...but many do not understand that enough is enough. Boredom breeds bad manners in some.
You get to fast travel everywhere, you que up to battlegroups or PVP or raids on the spot and are teleported away...you have it all in a neat little menu, and you don´t need to do anything.
Gamers should have to do some actual legwork, gather groups and relocate, not just click a button.
We share ONE game, so things need to be considered for what benefits all in the best way possible.
This is very true. Themepark MMOs seem to be the norm with little to no interaction. I think the concerning part of that is how THAT became the norm. I quit back when that change started in Wrath for WoW so how does a game continue for many many more expansions after that? Clearly people are ok with this and it's alarming. Ashes is taking a bold step into an area that hasn't seen it's kind in decades.
The reason why people are reluctant to agree with you on this topic is because you equate getting meme'd on with being toxic. The truth is they are complete different things. You overreacted because somebody made a joke at your expense. Had you not people wouldn't fixate on you but your reaction draws us in.
It's okay if people make jokes at your expense. Laugh it off and move on. Wait for them to slip up and meme on them. It's the same thing as dying in a game. Figure out why you lost, fix it and move on. Kill them the next time you fight them. Prom is a pretty good guy for this. If you ever unblock him and watch his interactions you will see this. He will make jokes at other people's expenses all the time but he will also take jokes at his expense. You on the other hand can't take a joke.
That is the dullest perspective that only someone with the tiniest of minds would come up with. Enveus has gone way beyond "memeing". They attempted to sabotage my guild even invading the discord. Anyone who participates in that kind of behavior is an actual child and will be treated as such. Their GM also enables the toxic behavior. They are a perfect example of a guild that will be heavily blacklisted and avoided like the plague.
Forced PvP is toxic. Which is why, in Ashes, forced PvP is penalized with Corruption.
I really don't agree with that point of view or the terminology. It's no more toxic to get killed in open PvP in Ashes, than to be killed in CS:GO or lose to a player in a game of chess. By playing the game you are automatically consenting to open world PvP, even if you aren't ready for it at that specific time it happens. It's 100% part of the deliberate game design in Ashes, just as it is in other games with PvP, like CS:GO or chess. Having the Corruption mechanic in the game doesn't make it toxic either.
The only difference between those games and Ashes is that there are more things to do in Ashes, but that doesn't remove the completely expected PvP part. As soon as you click that Play button in the launcher, you consent to open world PvP you may not be ready for. Calling that toxic is nonsensical and, IMO, harmful to the game and the community.
Nobody is forcing anyone to play Ashes (hopefully), and I am sure people can live happy lives without ever having played the game. If people truly believe this very deliberately designed part of the game is toxic, please find a PvE only game and enjoy your life more. Everyone will be happier for it: You, your family, friends, coworkers, and everyone who chose to play Ashes knowing that Open world PvP is 100% expected gameplay and there by design, even if they may try to avoid it most of the time.
I mean the entire thread is about general toxicity in the community and a not insignificant number of people believe the forced PvP parts of the game will be the primary source of that toxicity.
PvP being a source for toxicity is a given yeah One of many sources. Any time there is any sort of competition, there are some immature people who start name-calling and harassing and threatening. Hopefully we can report them and they can get a temporary ban at first to let them know that isn't cool.
2
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
LMFAO
Your assertion is too absurd to spend much time on, but, It's not simply that there are more things to do in Ashes than in CS:GO.
If it were true that by by playing the game you automatically consent to forced PvP combat, Ashes would not include the penalty of Coruuption.
Forced PvP combat is actually not the same thing as open world PvP. But if you can't even tell the difference between Ashes gameplay and CS: GO gamepley by genre, I can't expect you to be able to tell the difference forced PvP combat and open world PvP.
What is your definition of forced PvP combat, if not open world PvP where you can get jumped by another player with no warning, and then choose to defend yourself or not? You 100% consent to being exposed to that type of "forced PvP" by clicking Play in the launcher. The genre doesn't matter when it comes to basic consent. It's a game, you choose to play it or you don't. You don't pick and choose the rules you agree with when you play chess or CS:GO, and decide that "no! I will not accept Castling as a rule in chess! I find it toxic!"
1
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2021
Open -world PvP is PvP that occurs in the open world rather than in an instance.
Forced PvP is when a player relentlessly attacks another player who is not interested in engaging in player v player combat at that moment.
The rules in Ashes are, if you kill a player who does not consent to PvP combat (by flagging for PvP), you will be penalized with Corruption. That is the penalty for forced PvP.
If you foul someone in a basketball game, there will be a penalty. You don't consent to being fouled just by playing basketball.
Open -world PvP is PvP that occurs in the open world rather than in an instance.
Forced PvP is when a player relentlessly attacks another player who is not interested in engaging in player v player combat at that moment.
The rules in Ashes are, if you kill a player who does not consent to PvP combat (by flagging for PvP), you will penalized with Corruption. That is the penalty for forced PvP.
If you foul someone in a basketball game, there will be a penalty. You don't consent to being fouled just by playing basketball.
Ok so we agree on what forced PvP and open world pvp is, that is at least something. I tend to lump them together in Ashes specifically, but I agree with your definition too.
But your basketball analogy is not applicable at all. Corruption is not something that happens to a player that doesn't play by the rules. Forced PvP in Ashes is 100% by the rules, just as corruption is. A foul in basketball is when players don't play by the rules. In Ashes, the penalty for not playing by the rules is a ban from the game, temporary or permanent. Forced PvP is a design choice for Ashes. You not liking it doesn't make it toxic in a general sense.
1
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2021
Um. In basketball, fouls are part of the rules. Penalties for fouls are also part of the rules.
In Ashes, penalties for forced PvP are also part of the rules.
In both games, the penalties are there to reduce toxicity.
Ok now I think you are just being willfully silly. Banning people from the game is also part of the rules. But those ban-rules don't apply to forced pvp, because forced pvp is by the rules. Corruption is there to limit forced pvp to give it some ingame consequences, not to say it breaks the rules in any way. Very unlike fouls in basketball, which specifically are when players break the rules. Fouls are not designed to be an integral part of a game of basketball. The NBA isn't going to say, "Yeah we totally think fouls should be part of the game". Forced PvP is, however, an official part of the game.
I don't know how much clearer I can make this to you, and I am not going to waste any more time on it I think
1
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2021
Banning people is also part of the rules and is also a penalty. Yes.
You can state your assertion as many times as you wish - it will not make the assertion any less false.
If you step into a boxing ring, that does not mean that you consent to being hit by a boxer. There are rules governing that. And there are penalties for attacking people inside the ring who have not consented to being hit.
It's possible to elbow a basketball player in the face on court, but there will be a penalty for doing so. You don't consent to being elbowed in the face during basketball just because it is possible for you to be elbowed in the face. And if someone elbows a player in the face during a game, there will be a penalty for that.
Similarly, Ashes has a penalty for forced PvP combat. Consent for PvP combat is attacking back and flagging as a combatant. Forced PvP combat in Ashes is penalized with Corruption.
And the penalty is there in order to reduce toxicity.
(Also, just because it's OK to tackle a player in football doesn't mean that's it's OK to tackle someone in basketball. Similarly, just because there is no penalty for doing something CS: GO does not meant the same behavior will not have a penalty in Ashes.)
I find that the people who react to the toxicity the most strongly are usually in denial about their own behavior. With that said, I think the lack of fast travel, the need for a community, and the lack of available resources will force certain types of symbiotic and socially acceptable behavior.
Especially if they never allow name changes, that'll be huge too.
This is such an ironic comment coming from an Enveus member. If you're in the most toxic guild and participate in such your opinion is worth nothing.
The things that use to keep people in check don't really exist anymore. It's very possible for entire servers to just die out do to having a terrible player base. This happened in WoW Classic. A game that once housed a metric crap ton of servers now supports very few. True vets who desire community will leave when their environment sucks, and the result can lead to the death of the server. Without players it doesn't matter how good the game is because MMOs are meant to be played massively... hence the name.
I've been Enveus maybe three weeks and there's very little toxicity. However, responses like these leave very little for me to say because it proves my point for me.
Theres no full loot
There are penalties for griefing
There are no benefits for rpk
If a person cannot handle someone who's not like them and the global diversity that comes with an MMORPG then it's not for the devs to solve. It's for them to grow as a human and change they way they perceive things.
PKing is going to happen, this games mainstay in PvP and if that rubs someone the wrong way then don't partake in the game until even more anti-griefing and rpk procedures are put into place.
Complaining about toxicity while unironically toxic seems to be the MO of most of the players out there, it's only toxic if the individual perceives it to be so, to which I say they can log off and gtfu.
I have had a lot of my doubts about the game squashed by helping test A1. It is by far the best Alpha I've been a part of. Yet there are a few concerns I still have about the games possibility of success. The most notable is the community aspect.
Community is BY FAR the most important thing in an MMO. You could have the greatest game ever but have it completely decimated by a toxic community. For comparison references I'm going to use WoW since it is well known to all MMO players and it has also begun a second version of it's journey. To understand where I'm coming from know that I just turned 35 over the weekend and have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online. IMO there were no better communities than the UO and original WoW communities. I believe this is why they were so successful.
The original classic WoW had a variety of elements to bring people together. You had to manually from dungeons, there were a ton of group quests, and the buffing system also added to a friendly atmosphere. It was extremely easy to find new friends and the game brought people together. With the rerelease of Classic WoW I saw the polar opposite of this. People were antisocial, they paid for dungeon runs instead of running them, and buffing people 90% of the time resulted in no interaction. I was completely dumbfounded how bad the game was the second time around... and it's the same game! The difference in community made all the difference. I couldn't even finish leveling to 60 before I quit playing, and that is saying a lot considering how much I love classic and TBC. IT takes A LOT for me to not want to continue playing WoW in it's best state.
Now, the community aspect is something outside Intrepid's hands. They have been doing a great job promoting the positive people covering the game so far. Yet after witnessing the Discord I have my concerns. There are a lot of good people, but there are also a lot of bad people. Some so bad I've seen straight up bullying tactics being used in the Discord. This has me a bit concerned. If you did this stuff in WoW back in the day you would never get a guild and be an outcast. The second time around no one even bats an eye and considers it normal. Maybe it's just my age showing, but I feel as if that mentality can greatly harm the success chances to the game.
Granted it's too early to tell how things will play out, but Ashes is being designed as an extremely social game. Most MMOs are theme parks that require no socialization which may be the cause for the toxic and lazy behavior I've been witnessing in the second version of WoW. I'm curious what everyone else's thoughts are on this topic. Is anyone else concerned?
I plan to talk about this on the first episode of my talk show coming soon, so it would be nice to get some other opinions.
This is coming from the toxic individual that blocked an entire guild on discord because he got meme'd on for typing forever xD We meme on Steven for typing forever and its not toxic man, its a joke. And I know plenty of old school MMORPG-ers that don't think the community is "toxic" at all, your subjective opinion on what is toxic and what isn't toxic is very different from the rest of the community and with you making asinine comments saying an entire guild is toxic when you really just got sad from some words only makes the situation worse.
But it also highlights a major point in why most Hardcore/Semi-hardcore players do not like the Casual player-base in most games and why that large divide begins to happen in player skill because no one that actually wants to play the game the way it was intended (PKing is a thing and it will be very prevalent whether you enjoy it or not) wants to play with those that will only complain about how the game operates and then blame the game as if its not a subjective opinion based solely on their feelings. The game has a target audience and if that target audience is not you then so be it man, go back to UO or another game that you feel isn't "Toxic" by your standards instead of trying to make the game seem bad because you got your feelings hurt. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I also wouldn't recommend making a talk show for Ashes of Creation if you're just going to call the community toxic man, you will not find a lot of happy people in your comments/Likes-dislikes since everyone else finds the community fun and very lively at times, we like to troll just like any other game but that's not toxicity in the slightest.
You either win or you lose the castle siege. You either get pked or you kill the pker. In Ashes a lot of the systems are designed in away where if you don't succeed and somebody else succeeds. Where everybody doesn't just get a participation prize from showing up. Is everything that isn't a win a loss? No but there will be a lot of things some people will never get to do, get to complete or get to have. That's okay. It's also not toxic to have this in a game.
Did someone in this thread refer to any of that as toxic or is that just something you made up in your own head about what people refer to as toxic??
I mean he quoted the comment that he was referring to where the individual stated that there is no "winning" in Ashes of Creation even though there is. You either kill someone and win, or die and lose. You either win the castle siege, or you lose. Just because they define "winning" in a different way then everyone else doesn't make it the correct use of the word lol
Comments
I mean the entire thread is about general toxicity in the community and a not insignificant number of people believe the forced PvP parts of the game will be the primary source of that toxicity.
This is so true.
At some point you need to wonder, is it really all these other people or is it just me?
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
U.S. East
IF you just observe the Ashes Discord you will see what I'm talking about. (most commonly the guild chat channel). The forums are very civil and miles better than the first impression the Discord gives off. I've talked to a lot of people in the community and the majority won't even use the Ashes Discord for this reason.
Someone also pointed out to me that there are thousands of people in there and probably 99.99% of them don't talk, so the level of toxicity may be small. The ones who do are usually the loud mouthed toxic players, and anyone who tried to start a conversation will usually get discouraged as one or more of the toxic players will belittle that person and try to shun them away.
I rarely hang out in Discord and when I do, it's never in the Guild channel.
The Questions channel seems fine. And the General channel is typically OK.
Guys, let's be honest with each other: toxicity is the part of every game. Well, almost every game. For instance, I came here from Arma 2 DayZ Epoch and I can say that people who are playing shooters -- can also be toxic. However, I still have a dream of some kind of gaming utopia with zero tolerance to toxicity.
I've been bullied by my guild just because I was reading a book https://amazon.com/dp/B094NMRWPJ and they were not. Simple book! Can you imagine that?
For sure I did. It fell apart afterwards because guildmaster was a toxic sh***.
Especially if they never allow name changes, that'll be huge too.
" I brought up the point that the culture in gaming is trending negative and people are just accepting that behavior."
Back in the old school, we did handle this with dry looting. Old school PKing was certainly abrasive, but again to me a toxic player is the one who isn't even aware that their behavior is toxic.
To me, the PvEr who bashes PvP constantly and constantly harps on the actions of others, is nuclear toxicity.
This is such an ironic comment coming from an Enveus member. If you're in the most toxic guild and participate in such your opinion is worth nothing.
The things that use to keep people in check don't really exist anymore. It's very possible for entire servers to just die out do to having a terrible player base. This happened in WoW Classic. A game that once housed a metric crap ton of servers now supports very few. True vets who desire community will leave when their environment sucks, and the result can lead to the death of the server. Without players it doesn't matter how good the game is because MMOs are meant to be played massively... hence the name.
In school, we got assignments, and we had to
* Get together in groups
* Go to the library
* Decide amongst ourselves the work dividing
* Borrow books
* Do the work, study and complete the task
* Return the books
Draw a line from that to an MMO, and you see what´s lacking.
The biggest issues that spark and ignite a lot of interactions in games, are the lack of social interactions. People are bored, and they start poking each other with sticks to mess about. At a degree, it´s fine...but many do not understand that enough is enough. Boredom breeds bad manners in some.
You get to fast travel everywhere, you que up to battlegroups or PVP or raids on the spot and are teleported away...you have it all in a neat little menu, and you don´t need to do anything.
Gamers should have to do some actual legwork, gather groups and relocate, not just click a button.
We share ONE game, so things need to be considered for what benefits all in the best way possible.
The reason why people are reluctant to agree with you on this topic is because you equate getting meme'd on with being toxic. The truth is they are complete different things. You overreacted because somebody made a joke at your expense. Had you not people wouldn't fixate on you but your reaction draws us in.
It's okay if people make jokes at your expense. Laugh it off and move on. Wait for them to slip up and meme on them. It's the same thing as dying in a game. Figure out why you lost, fix it and move on. Kill them the next time you fight them. Prom is a pretty good guy for this. If you ever unblock him and watch his interactions you will see this. He will make jokes at other people's expenses all the time but he will also take jokes at his expense. You on the other hand can't take a joke.
I'd also like to make it abundantly clear that I think that outright bullying.... where you go out of your way to exclude somebody or where you make fun of their race/sex/orientation... that's something completely different. That needs to be moderated and from what I have seen the moderators have done a pretty good job at dealing with this. But having a joke made at your expense and then blocking anybody who laughed at the joke is only making yourself a bigger joke. The reason you can tell that this is the case because it isn't just one guild that's laughing at you but rather anybody who knows the inside story of your original reaction.
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
This is very true. Themepark MMOs seem to be the norm with little to no interaction. I think the concerning part of that is how THAT became the norm. I quit back when that change started in Wrath for WoW so how does a game continue for many many more expansions after that? Clearly people are ok with this and it's alarming. Ashes is taking a bold step into an area that hasn't seen it's kind in decades.
That is the dullest perspective that only someone with the tiniest of minds would come up with. Enveus has gone way beyond "memeing". They attempted to sabotage my guild even invading the discord. Anyone who participates in that kind of behavior is an actual child and will be treated as such. Their GM also enables the toxic behavior. They are a perfect example of a guild that will be heavily blacklisted and avoided like the plague.
I really don't agree with that point of view or the terminology. It's no more toxic to get killed in open PvP in Ashes, than to be killed in CS:GO or lose to a player in a game of chess. By playing the game you are automatically consenting to open world PvP, even if you aren't ready for it at that specific time it happens. It's 100% part of the deliberate game design in Ashes, just as it is in other games with PvP, like CS:GO or chess. Having the Corruption mechanic in the game doesn't make it toxic either.
The only difference between those games and Ashes is that there are more things to do in Ashes, but that doesn't remove the completely expected PvP part. As soon as you click that Play button in the launcher, you consent to open world PvP you may not be ready for. Calling that toxic is nonsensical and, IMO, harmful to the game and the community.
Nobody is forcing anyone to play Ashes (hopefully), and I am sure people can live happy lives without ever having played the game. If people truly believe this very deliberately designed part of the game is toxic, please find a PvE only game and enjoy your life more. Everyone will be happier for it: You, your family, friends, coworkers, and everyone who chose to play Ashes knowing that Open world PvP is 100% expected gameplay and there by design, even if they may try to avoid it most of the time.
PvP being a source for toxicity is a given yeah
Your assertion is too absurd to spend much time on, but, It's not simply that there are more things to do in Ashes than in CS:GO.
If it were true that by by playing the game you automatically consent to forced PvP combat, Ashes would not include the penalty of Coruuption.
Forced PvP combat is actually not the same thing as open world PvP. But if you can't even tell the difference between Ashes gameplay and CS: GO gamepley by genre, I can't expect you to be able to tell the difference forced PvP combat and open world PvP.
Forced PvP is when a player relentlessly attacks another player who is not interested in engaging in player v player combat at that moment.
The rules in Ashes are, if you kill a player who does not consent to PvP combat (by flagging for PvP), you will be penalized with Corruption. That is the penalty for forced PvP.
If you foul someone in a basketball game, there will be a penalty. You don't consent to being fouled just by playing basketball.
Ok so we agree on what forced PvP and open world pvp is, that is at least something.
But your basketball analogy is not applicable at all. Corruption is not something that happens to a player that doesn't play by the rules. Forced PvP in Ashes is 100% by the rules, just as corruption is. A foul in basketball is when players don't play by the rules. In Ashes, the penalty for not playing by the rules is a ban from the game, temporary or permanent. Forced PvP is a design choice for Ashes. You not liking it doesn't make it toxic in a general sense.
In Ashes, penalties for forced PvP are also part of the rules.
In both games, the penalties are there to reduce toxicity.
I don't know how much clearer I can make this to you, and I am not going to waste any more time on it I think
You can state your assertion as many times as you wish - it will not make the assertion any less false.
If you step into a boxing ring, that does not mean that you consent to being hit by a boxer. There are rules governing that. And there are penalties for attacking people inside the ring who have not consented to being hit.
It's possible to elbow a basketball player in the face on court, but there will be a penalty for doing so. You don't consent to being elbowed in the face during basketball just because it is possible for you to be elbowed in the face. And if someone elbows a player in the face during a game, there will be a penalty for that.
Similarly, Ashes has a penalty for forced PvP combat. Consent for PvP combat is attacking back and flagging as a combatant. Forced PvP combat in Ashes is penalized with Corruption.
And the penalty is there in order to reduce toxicity.
(Also, just because it's OK to tackle a player in football doesn't mean that's it's OK to tackle someone in basketball. Similarly, just because there is no penalty for doing something CS: GO does not meant the same behavior will not have a penalty in Ashes.)
Facts are facts.
Don't waste your time.
I've been Enveus maybe three weeks and there's very little toxicity. However, responses like these leave very little for me to say because it proves my point for me.
If a person cannot handle someone who's not like them and the global diversity that comes with an MMORPG then it's not for the devs to solve. It's for them to grow as a human and change they way they perceive things.
PKing is going to happen, this games mainstay in PvP and if that rubs someone the wrong way then don't partake in the game until even more anti-griefing and rpk procedures are put into place.
Complaining about toxicity while unironically toxic seems to be the MO of most of the players out there, it's only toxic if the individual perceives it to be so, to which I say they can log off and gtfu.
This is coming from the toxic individual that blocked an entire guild on discord because he got meme'd on for typing forever xD We meme on Steven for typing forever and its not toxic man, its a joke. And I know plenty of old school MMORPG-ers that don't think the community is "toxic" at all, your subjective opinion on what is toxic and what isn't toxic is very different from the rest of the community and with you making asinine comments saying an entire guild is toxic when you really just got sad from some words only makes the situation worse.
But it also highlights a major point in why most Hardcore/Semi-hardcore players do not like the Casual player-base in most games and why that large divide begins to happen in player skill because no one that actually wants to play the game the way it was intended (PKing is a thing and it will be very prevalent whether you enjoy it or not) wants to play with those that will only complain about how the game operates and then blame the game as if its not a subjective opinion based solely on their feelings. The game has a target audience and if that target audience is not you then so be it man, go back to UO or another game that you feel isn't "Toxic" by your standards instead of trying to make the game seem bad because you got your feelings hurt. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I also wouldn't recommend making a talk show for Ashes of Creation if you're just going to call the community toxic man, you will not find a lot of happy people in your comments/Likes-dislikes since everyone else finds the community fun and very lively at times, we like to troll just like any other game but that's not toxicity in the slightest.
**Check out my Twitch!**
I mean he quoted the comment that he was referring to where the individual stated that there is no "winning" in Ashes of Creation even though there is. You either kill someone and win, or die and lose. You either win the castle siege, or you lose. Just because they define "winning" in a different way then everyone else doesn't make it the correct use of the word lol
**Check out my Twitch!**