Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Just because you walk into a bank, that does not make you rich, just as playing an RPG does not mean you are automatically roleplaying.
I don't think you gotta give RPers a whole lot for them to be satisfied. xD
U.S. East
That can also be a slippery slope, because far too often, roleplayers are left with the absolute basics alone. Just take one of the most long term insane systems in The Old Republic. Even to this day, there are no chat bubbles, but a roleplay session is supposed to fit in with the general chat instead. That is, let´s say a disaster.
Many times, it´s just the option wanted to be able to use what´s already in the game. Furniture is an absolut basic one as an example, and we know furniture will come yes, but it also hopefully let us actually use them.
From there, on it goes.
Not something I am interested in. It's different than what I believe the RP in MMORPG stands for.
English is not my native language, so i´l elaborate.
RP session is what i refer too when speaking of roleplaying with someone else and a conversation is needed.
I do not actively RP 24/7 when i play at every time, but i never break the immersion of people around that may be. I do not sprint all over, no bunny hopping, no screaming random " leet speech " in open chat, and / or anything else that would really stick out.
I have made a habit out of always log on, and try to blend in, and that is all it takes really to not stand out. When i roleplay with people, i have very little to " activate " but to type my sayings, or voice them in VOIP.
A conversation using chat bubbles is not necessarily RP.
And, I don't think you need a "session" just to use chat bubbles to have a conversation in character with other player characters.
"RP session" reminds me of the people who use a GM to create imaginary stories with the game world as a theatrical stage.
Ashes does have chat bubbles already in the Alpha One Preview.
U.S. East
"Roleplaying will not be delegated to just taverns, but taverns will provide an encouraging space specifically for this. Offering rested experience, parlor games, and other such activities will help create an environment for great stories to unfold."
Nothing super-new.
Something about the timing of this mention has me thinking about visiting a tavern to help overcome XP debt.
You seem to overthink the word RP session. Like i said..it´s just me using that as a term...it´s my own way of shortening anything down that encompasses roleplay in general with others.
Last, it´s quite obviously that a chat bubble would be used by anyone, but you could have a tool setting for this just as chat channels. An RP bubble option, that should be used for RP, as a trade channel should be used for trade etc.
No, you don´t need a " session " to RP, but if there are different channels for different usage of chat, why could not RP be one? Otherwise we should just have every single chat option, being regional, siege, pvp etc in one single box combined and mixed.
The point is, it would be very messy, i think you would agree.
RP Bubble option makes no sense to me. And seems problematic to me if we are somehow missing chat bubble channels in the open world. That being said - we will probably mostly be communicating by Discord voice chat anyway.
RP should be the norm, so...if we're talking about channels, rather than sessions, I suppose there should just be an OOC channel. And, if there were one, it would be easier to police and report those who don't use the OOC channel...but...There's no reason why OOC should have chat bubbles.
So...probably easy enough to just report people using chat bubbles for OOC chat.
And then we don't need separate chat bubble channels.
Even in the hardcorist of hardcore RP guilds RP isn't the normal chat unless specifically in an area/setting it makes sense.
Just look at WoW, they're the only ones satisfied w/ the game b/c they don't give a crap about Blizzard's shitty systems.
Something like this in game I think would be amazing for RPing. It wouldn't have to be this in depth, but I think allowing a page or two for players to describe their character and give general information that might not be... easily represented in game just because... we can't have custom models with scars, smells, or looks on our faces. It also most importantly, though this was rather under used imo, allows for RP hooks! Does that guy have a military badge? A crest of another node? Are their clothes in tatters? These can effect how another player might interact with or even if they do interact with other players.
Last thing I'd say is some kind of... "note" system for other players. Maybe I get into an interesting discussion with Joe and then a few days go by and I can't quite remember what we discussed, but I'd be really nice if I had a note of "I talked with Joe about a caravan being destroyed and that his daughter had just gotten married". Then I can follow up with that hook and it feels so much more natural.
As long as the content of which is watched closely by Intrepid...It shouldn't have taken until 2018 for Blizzard to finally do something for those using the addon for outright illegal things.
Having some normal things like sitting down in chairs or emotes is useful because more than RP players use these tools. People use these tools for creating screenshots or simple non-rp expressions.
The RP in RPG when it comes to video games almost never means you literally role-play. Often times it simply means that the game uses a numbered progression system of some kind. This is why people will argue that Zelda is an RPG when many would agree that it is not. If we were to take Role Playing at face value, then I would argue that no Final Fantasy game ever has been an RPG. You are never expected to role play a character in Final Fantasy. You "can" role play in FFXI or FFXIV, but it is not expected. The focus in Final Fantasy games is almost always to experience a narrative. Which is the same design goal as books and movies.
I feel like Ashes identify itself as an MMORPG to attract the MMORPG audience, not the D&D, Pathfinder, GURPs, or Vampire the masquerade Role Play audience. This is the case for most MMORPGs. The only common tools given to role players is chairs and emotes among MMORPGs. If the focus of MMORPGs was ever to be actual role playing. We would see more robust role playing tools be the standard in MMORPGs.
It is clear to me that Role Playing is not a focus in Ashes. There will never be an RP server. That is by design. Having people play the game just to RP is bad for everyone involved. A pure RP server could not exist in Ashes the game is fueled by competition and the conflict created from it.
If they put these excessive tools into the game it could bring a crowed into the game with the expectation that a safe environment for them to RP exists. Outside of freeholds, stalls, and player housing no "Safe Zones" exist. That means that RPers will experience what they will for sure call "griefing" often. I worry that adding too many RP tools to the game will attract a very vocal crowed of people asking for changes that go against the competitive risk vs reward nature of the game.
This is why I am against features like: Tavern games and VoIP.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
I mean, near everyone should know that the longest lasting community of a game are the roleplayers. What do you think is propping up SWTOR and LOTRO? There's also healthy and active communities in WoW, FF14, & WoW (Classic and Retail)
Alternatively we might not see more robust tools b/c mods always handled it so devs never bothered w/ it. On top of that look at BDO. Do you think the NPCs have a day/night cycle just for mechanical benefits? It's to add to the immersion of the world...and that's mostly a pure PvP game.
You're just trying to troll now right?
There's no RP server for the same reason there's no PvP or PvE server. Steven has clearly stated he doesn't want segregated servers b/c he has no intention of telling players how to play...it's our sandbox he's building and we dictate what to do in it.
Seriously, Steven is a massive nerd and an active roleplayer. The game is literally built on the back of a Pathfinder campaign and we've had two 24 hour streams where the devs roleplaying was the main attraction. I find it hard to believe you honestly feel this way about roleplayers or you're actively not paying attention.
Please subscribe to my YouTube channel where very soon I'll be re-publishing interviews I did w/ actively recruiting roleplay guilds that are pumped for the PvP. In WoW it was roleplayers that kept the WPvP alive and plenty of roleplayers are excellent PvP players as well.
However, the RP contingent in WoW and FFXIV is no larger than it is in any other MMO.
If you are surrounded by it every time you play, you may think it is larger than it is. However, players could very easily go actual years in either game without coming across anyone really RP'ing.
There is a much greater population of people playing WoW for the raid content than there are playing it for RP purposes - though I would not want to speak as to why people play FFXIV.
What mods have been created to assist with RP in MMO's?
The fact that those games have RP communities and lasted long does not appear to be correlational.
Wildstar had an RP community...
You also have to dig deep to find RPers in some of these games. I have played FFXIV for years and never seen anyone actually RPing. You see it in WOW outside Stormwind because it is a meme, but outside of that you have to search out the server. I even played WOW on the RP server in classic not too long ago and no one was actually RPing often. What they were doing was sending cringe Fan Fiction links about their half-angel characters.
I am fine with a robust setting and a little Immersion. That just improves the game look visually for everyone.
I don't see it as an RP tool. It is set dressing. If set dressing something gamers did not expect all games would look like pong. People expect an aesthetic from a competitive game like street fighter. If it was just hit boxes people would not be into it. Yet, no one is asking Capcom for tools that let them RP as ken better.
I am not trolling. The game works because the competitive PvE and PvP systems work together to create what in theory will be a great PvX environment. It naturally creates the sort of conflict RPers seek to create artificially in their stories. If the game could work with pure PvP or PvE only servers they would for sure exist.
In a PvE only server the node system would have no conflict and thus fail.
I am a massive nerd and active roleplayer. Which is why I would never waste my time RPing in an MMORPG. Not one MMORPG on the market has ever been a good canvas for the expression. None have ever come close. The role playing experiences I can have in OpenRPG, Roll20. or now TaleSpire could never compare to what a MMORPG brings to the table. A far more reasonable ask would be for intrepid to make a campaign book for table top Ashes down the line. Which is something WOW did that was actually not that bad.
PM me down the line any specific videos you want me to see of yours. I subbed, but your feed will drown in the 1000+ channels I have subbed to over the years. I am open to hearing counter opinions, but I don't agree that MMORPGs are a worthwhile canvas for real role playing. I like both genres and I think they are stronger when their unique flavors are not combined in excessive ways.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
In the same way a tabletop game simply can't compete with an MMO for raid content in terms of complexity (unless you have several years worth of weekly sessions per encounter), MMO's simply can't compete with tabletop for the actual RP experience they offer.
People trying to mix either of these ruin both mediums.
Reasons why 4th edition D&D was a failure. ^
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
One was written right here.
If that's typical for chat bubbles in other MMORPGs, expect that to be the same in Ashes, but...
I don't recall seeing that in NWO and I don't recall seeing trade chat appearing in chat bubbles in WoW.
That being said, I typically am in Discord voice chat and ignore the in-game chat channels.
I don't recall seeing chat bubbles with OOC chat in WoW during the last year that I played, though I have seen text in the chat scroll.
RP is just talking about stuff happening in the game from the point of view of your character. LFG is RP. Trade is RP.
OOC chat can all be done in voice chat. There is no reason to type what's happening in a football game in a chat bubble.
This is the statement I want to highlight. There's a distinct difference between you not thinking it's a worthwhile canvas and the broad stroke "Roleplay doesn't happen in MMOs so tools shouldn't be built for it"
I know roleplay happens b/c I've seen it and am involved in it. I also know many use MMOs and similar text base roleplay programs simply b/c they can avoid the anxiety of more intimate settings like Roll20 and of course in person.
On top of that b/c developers have hyper optimized their maps few areas exists that work as proper settings for roleplayers, cosmetics and customizations have continually become more monetized, and none of them have built even basic tools like a diary or similar items all on top of gamers becoming increasingly more competitive and focused on the end game raids of extremely railroaded games it's no wonder that roleplayers have taken to sheltering in guilds where they're less likely to get outright flamed.
For many aspiring Ashes roleplayers the fact that the game is PvX is a huge blessing b/c they can just kill people that are trolling them and they have the ability to build the spaces that other games deny them.
It's an RPG. How can tools that help support RP go against anything else in the game??
I don't know what the means. Sitting in chairs promote RP because they allow players to do something with their character that their character would likely do. Same with emotes.
Roleplay at it's core really just means playing the game from the perspective of the character rather than the perspective of the player.
In this video, 11:25 to 16:25 is all RP. And I basically just took a random 5 minutes. In this video, for the most part, anything that is not Steven talking directly to the non-playing viewers is RP.
So...I don't understand how RP tools interfere with any of that.
I think Steven would not agree with you.
Chairs and emotes as the common tools for RP is a limitation of technology.
What other tools are you expecting that would support RP?
Especially what kinds of RP tools would get in the way of PvX?? And how could they do so?
Having specific tools for harvesting, as Ashes does, literally are RP tools.
Constructing and defending villages, towns and cities are major RP tools.
Siege equipment that we construct and destroy are major RP tools.
Having our inventory items appear on our backpacks and mount barding are significant RP features.
If it were true that Roleplaying is not a focus in Ashes, we would not have had a tweet yesterday asking:
"What kind of systems would you like to see implemented to help boost roleplaying and immersion?"
What is an excessive RP tool? Tavern games have been in the game design since the Kickstarter, so I don't know how you can be complaining about that as if it's something new. Obviously, Steven is including parlor games because he's planning to support RP.
I'm not sure what you mean by VOIP. The Siege video already tells us that we can expect to be using Discord chat during Sieges. If you mean vicinity voice chat acting as chat bubbles, we already have chat bubbles, so I think vicinity voice chat will not be a thing. I also think vicinity voice chat tends to break immersion and RP rather than facilitating it because players often have all kinds of real world background noises spilling through vicinity voice chat.
What you seem to be talking about is what I in previous posts stated "RP session" means to me:
Where a player takes the role of GM and fabricates their own story, using the game world as a theatrical stage and other players as actors. As if it's a D&D Session taking place in the world of Verra. The GM creates their own scenarios and /emotes flavor text to the participants.
I think that's the kind of RP Steven expects to support in taverns. Along with parlor games.
I don't think I said: "Roleplay doesn't happen in MMOs so tools shouldn't be built for it".
I just don't think MMORPGs are the place for role playing. Just because you can use an environment for a purpose does not mean that it is ideal or good for the environment.
You don't have to use VoIP to use an online table table-top, so the anxiety argument does not work. When I was using OpenRPG back in the day most people did not have internet speeds that could support VoIP. I know it was very common to just use text. Text is the only real tool that needed for role play.
If you were asking for a stand-alone version of the game. That allows a person to self-host a world like Minecraft. Where you could disable mobs, and run around and RP in a noncompetitive environment. Have a player that spawns in mobs and hands out loot from behind the scenes. That would be something I could see having potential. As a DM, I could work with that. It would be something for the DEVs to consider once they have delivered on the goal of an Open World PvX game that focuses on risk vs reward.
I watched your intro YouTube video. I have to say that I am extremely skeptical your community of RPers is going to be able to hold down a kingdom. With that said, I do wish you all the blessings and luck in the world in that endeavor. The community-driven stories that naturally unfold are something that I love about MMORPGs. I don't play on 2b2t or EVE, but I do still watch the stories that come out of those games. This is not role play, but emergent story telling.
The emergent story that comes from a bunch of RPers trying to make a kingdom together just sounds like something that is interesting that does not require the DEVs to invest any time or effort into. You have my full support on that.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
"I just don't think MMORPGs are the place for role playing."
bwaa hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha!!
I think you have made my week for the most laughable thing I've come across.
You skipped my post where I dissected the meaning of RPG and how RPG does not literally mean you role play.. It has not only meant that in my lifetime. I am skeptical that RPG has literally meant you role play for most of your life time my old friend.
To keep it short:
I explained that if RPG means role playing then no Final Fantasy game ever has been designed to be an RPG. In every Final Fantasy game you progress through the narrative. This is more like a book or a movie than a "Role Playing" game.
When most Video Games describe their game as RPG they mean a numbered progression System. When I play my favorite RPG of all time. At no point to I feel like I am Role Playing as Locke. At a certain point, the game opens up and becomes a book I can choose what pages to read, but I am not role playing. I am experiancing a narrative.
What he is doing in the video is common theatrics of guild leaders and streams do in moderation.
It is also not something that people expect. It is a little bit of optional fun that requires nothing extra be added to the game. This requires none of the extra RP tools I am against. He is using discord. Which is fine.
Maybe not, maybe he just has not heard a compelling argument for why he should not be throwing everything including the kitchen skin into his game?
I see Ashes strength as being a good hardcore PvX game that will unite PvP and PvE players in an emergent story created through real drama and competition. I don't see its strenght as an environment to RP in.
Most of what is listed here has an economic and mechanical purpose that is important to the game. You are seeing the RP value in game mechanics. Me thinking swords are a melee weapon does not mean that I think that for RP reasons. I think that for mechanical reasons.
Yes Taverns have been in the game since the kickstarter and I think they should be cut. I also thing the family summoning system I think should be cut. Parlor games should absolutely be cut. VoIP of any kind should be cut.
If I see ideas that, I think, are bad for the game I am not just going to sit back and keep my mouth shut. I voice my opinion.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
I never use VOIP in RP personally.
But honestly, what would you consider excessive? Roleplayers do not actually require a whole lot. Once all the dust has settled and a server has been un-officially designated a roleplay server. Things like custom emotes, intractable furniture, toggle run/walk, casual clothes, and considering the no add-on policy, the ability to write a character sheet (think of a Total RolePlay add-on in a game like WoW)
If I had an active subscription in World of Warcraft, I would make a side by side comparison of a random server's Stormwind, and Argent Dawn's Stormwind.
Alas, I'll use words instead. In most servers, everyone hangs around a particular district (everything one needs in a city is in that district) the rest is pretty much empty, except for NPCs doing NPC things. If you walk around Argent Dawn's Stormwind. You see people all over, talking, drinking, you see guilds recruiting or doing exercises. You see a lot of characters, essentially being very advanced NPCs. Even as a non-roleplayer, I would like to think that it would enrich your experience when in a city too.