A suggestion for RP bounty hunting. Defeat instead of death. ( as a duel )
Grihm
Member
This is just an idea, but based on how a bounty hunter could serve it´s purpose in tracking and finishing a target.
Fact´s are, even if you send a killer to end your opponent, he/she will not die, only be defeated in PVP. This because no one can expect another player to delete a character due to being the target of a bounty and ending up defeated.
So with this fact in mind, a suggestion.
Perhaps a system could evolve in where a bounty hunter can defeat a player instead of killing him/her.
When the bounty hunter agree to take on a bounty, an ability is triggered for a certain amount of time. During that time, if the bounty hunter defeats the mark, the player is only " defeated " and knocked unconscious.
The bounty hunter will receive no corruption by this, as long as the bounty ability is still active.
When the bounty hunter has defeated the mark, it is up to the bounty hunter IF he or she wishes to kill the mark. If that is the case, the ability is deleted and corruption is added ( this because the killing is unnecessary really since the player is already defeated and down )
The end game of this is
* Bounty hunters can take on a bounty, and hunt down their target, defeat them and return for the reward.
* As long as the bounty is set and payed for ( an in game decided amount at minimum with a rather high cost ) KOS matters can be dealt with without it turning to ganking or harassment.
* As long as the bounty hunter stops at the defeated mark and not execute the player, no corruption is added.
* A limit is set on how often a Bounty hunter can take on bounties, and how often a player can set a bounty on the same mark.
Just an idea.
Fact´s are, even if you send a killer to end your opponent, he/she will not die, only be defeated in PVP. This because no one can expect another player to delete a character due to being the target of a bounty and ending up defeated.
So with this fact in mind, a suggestion.
Perhaps a system could evolve in where a bounty hunter can defeat a player instead of killing him/her.
When the bounty hunter agree to take on a bounty, an ability is triggered for a certain amount of time. During that time, if the bounty hunter defeats the mark, the player is only " defeated " and knocked unconscious.
The bounty hunter will receive no corruption by this, as long as the bounty ability is still active.
When the bounty hunter has defeated the mark, it is up to the bounty hunter IF he or she wishes to kill the mark. If that is the case, the ability is deleted and corruption is added ( this because the killing is unnecessary really since the player is already defeated and down )
The end game of this is
* Bounty hunters can take on a bounty, and hunt down their target, defeat them and return for the reward.
* As long as the bounty is set and payed for ( an in game decided amount at minimum with a rather high cost ) KOS matters can be dealt with without it turning to ganking or harassment.
* As long as the bounty hunter stops at the defeated mark and not execute the player, no corruption is added.
* A limit is set on how often a Bounty hunter can take on bounties, and how often a player can set a bounty on the same mark.
Just an idea.
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Comments
Your concept would allow friends of corrupt player to help them skirt the corruption penalties of losing items and facing death penalties.
Was just asking how Lark´s comment would work.
As for the suggestion, it´s just that... a suggestion to ad something part from death. Seems many are concerned they won´t be able to Bounty hunt with their KOS in mind.
There is no way a BH will decide to knock down a corrupted player, instead of killing them and get their full items.
Btw, who is concerned that they wont ve able to BH?
Your suggestion is a big roadtrip. What for?
Combatant = purple
Corrupted/PK = Red
A purple player is a player that lands a hit on a green player. You can become purple from hitting back another purple player, or healing a purple player.
If a purple kills another purple, there is no PK involved.
A red player is a player that after becoming purple by attacking a green, he/she kept attacking until the green died.
A red player gains amounts of corruption based on how many players they have previously killed (as shown on character window).
Healing a red turns you purple.
A BH can kill a red and not gain corruption, even if the red didnt fight back.
A red can kill a BH without gaining an additional PK score, or incur more corruption points.
A red can also kill a purple without gaining more corruption points and additional PK score.
A green can attack or kill a red without turning purple.
A green can kill a red without becoming themselves red.
A red may choose to run away from greens instead of fighting back, killing them, leading to more corruption points and additional PK score.
A red that dies, or kills mobs, slowly reduces Corruption Points. 0 corruption points makes a red green again.
Steven said there will be activities to reduce previous PK scores.
In case you missed it.
And as for why i suggest this... it´s stated in the post..so really don´t follow your question. Instead of death... defeat. You can read the post.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/50181/bounties-to-hunt#latest
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/50159/open-world-pvp#latest
It seems like the point of your post is to avoid the bounty hunter getting corruption. However, killing corrupted players does not cause corruption whether it is a bounty hunter that did the killing or not. That is why people are asking what the point of your post is.
Can't the "defeated" player just then get back up and try to kill the bounty hunter, even though the BH just beat them?
If there is anything i would like to avoid, is letting people kill others without corruption. The point ( that you can read if you read the post ) is as said, to let bounties be payed for, limited in time and on the same person, and let an argument be dealt with without death.
Reading between the lines in som threads, people seem to try to get free from corruption to be able to play as bounty hunters, deal with KOS etc. This is in response to it, and to not let people get a free way to kill as they please.
I see it as, when you put a bounty on me, it´s payed for and you find me during that timer...the game basically has me flagged as accepting a duel from you. When it´s over, you made your point and we can move on. No gear lost, no " death´s "... but point made.
Listen... it´s just a suggestion, and i´m no Alpha tester. Just juggling ideas in all this heat and boredom based on thinking outside the box a bit.
Could be some other system.
The person that got attacked by the player that now has some of their stuff - and some corruption - then has to spend some coin to activate this bounty system.
The Bounty Hunter then has to accept this bounty, and the more of a "reward" it is to them, the more of a second penalty it is to the person that was attacked.
The attacker is then in a position where the Bounty Hunter may decide to not kill them, meaning this person has a chance to have a lower penalty than if the Bounty Hunter just attacked and killed them.
To me, all this would do is encourage people to work together, one attacks a player and takes some of their stuff, the other accepts the bounty and goes off and "defeats" their friend. Then the poor player that was attacked is taken from twice.
Even if this can only be done a few times a day, a system so obviously exploitable would be used a few times a day by a few hundred groups of players.
In your OP, you state that when you kill a player, they do not die, as the character just respawns. This is correct. However, when they respawn after being killed while corrupt, they have a penalty in the form of experience debt, as well as the chance of having lost items. These combined are the penalty to being killed, not permanent deletion of your character.
There are some other valid points in this thread. Rather than looking at them all as a negative, take them on board and see if you can refine your suggestion to work around them all - starting with a more clear idea of what the goal of the system is.
So, your taking the bounty hunter system which is only intended as a way to eliminate corrupted players and attempting to use it as a system of mutual PVP for some reason. Is there any reason why the arena system won't work as a way to have mutual PVP without corruption or the death penalty?
BTW, no corruption is added to either the bounty hunter or the corrupted player for killing the other under the current system.
Sounds like you're making up the problem you wish to solve.
The problem you wish to solve isn't a problem, it's by design. The entire purpose of the corruption system is to punish corrupted players, there is no other purpose to it. As a result, corrupted players are going to get the dirty end of the stick 100% of the time. This seems to be in direct contrast with what you want, which is to punish the players punishing the corrupted players by giving THEM corruption, and then creating a system that allows bounty hunters specifically to profit from "defeating" corrupted players.
Is that correct? You want all PvP deaths to result in corruption, even consensual?
Letting them get away with stuff and not risk their gear would set a dangerous precedent. Many people do not care about the wasted time, but they might care about an item that takes time/money to replace.
But the player who punishes a red should not get punished in turn. It will be players (BH or not) who will make sure that reds pay the price in the end. Discouraging that would be a bad idea imho.
The end game of this is
* Bounty hunters can take on a bounty, and hunt down their target, defeat them and return for the reward.
* As long as the bounty is set and payed for ( an in game decided amount at minimum with a rather high cost ) KOS matters can be dealt with without it turning to ganking or harassment.
* As long as the bounty hunter stops at the defeated mark and not execute the player, no corruption is added.
* A limit is set on how often a Bounty hunter can take on bounties, and how often a player can set a bounty on the same mark.
To clarify even further.
The idea is in regards to other people claiming that they cannot do bounty hunting and or preform KOS in their guilds. The suggestion here is to have a separate way to " smack " your opponent down ( as a duel ) and be done with it. In no way shape or form am i trying to give people a way off corruption, since the corruption is there for a reason. One could almost say that what this is, is a time limited duel, and no you wont get items, money or anything... it´s a " cosmetic " defeat if you will to deal with in guild issues, RP grudges, clan arguments etc.
And no...people will not " run around with throwaway gear " and gank if that´s what you mean. If you read the list.. a bounty is limited by time and how often one person can get a bounty on them as well as it´s comes at a cost.
Why would KOS matters turn in to ganking or harassment, and why would this system stop that? I mean, people gank and harass others primarily because they want to gank and/or harass. On the other hand, people that have a valid grievance tend to right the wrong and move on. Since this is an opt in system, it isn't doing anything to stop people that want to gank and/or harass from being able to do so, and if anything is giving them another avenue in which to do so. A cost too whom?
From your descriptions so far, the only cost is bared by the person that has the grievance. If I had a grievance against you, why would I go out of my way to spend money to lessen the result for you of that grievance that I have?
The person the grievance is against specifically has less of a cost to pay if this system is employed.
Exactly, this is the classic "solution in search of a problem" that we often see on these boards revolving around Corruption/BH and such.
Referring to Bounty´s here in a looser sense. Another system it could be indeed.
Perhaps give some details of how you may see this working as a different system. I mean, I am not personally against the idea of players settingbounties on others in general, it's just that they whole thing needs to make sense in the context of the game as a whole (as we currently understand it).
Again though, you need to start out with a well defined purpose for the system. Just saying that you want KOS matters able to be dealt with without needing to resort to ganking or harassing isnt a reason to need a new system, as players that dont want to gank or harass are already able to deal with KOS matters without ganking or harassing, if they wish.
There will be a duel mechanic. Since we don't know anything about the mechanic, I don't see how we can justify changing it to the bounty hunter system at this point. It would seem like the best option for you to get you system into the game would be to apply your suggestion to the duel mechanic.
The bounty hunter system is currently intended as a perk for citizens of military nodes that are stage 4 and up. From what you have described, it looks like you want your duel mechanic to be available to everyone.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#Duels
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Bounty_hunters
Not suggestion the system should " take over " any existing bounty hunting system at all and not claiming it anywhere either. Seeing it as a form of duel instead would be perfectly fine. People are fixating on a name, but i could just as easy call it the " strawberry " system. It´s not to replace any existing bounty hunting at all, so we can leave that behind.
Yes.. a duel system, more open to all, and that does not lead to anyone dropping any gear. As said..a cosmetic defeat as said to " prove a point ". It´s nothing more advanced than that... no mathematical equations needed... no 40 page deep dive needed... it´s just a small suggestion for a flavored way to end arguments, rp fights or deals etc.
It arrived from a small debate where PVP was talked about and how arguments could be solved without turning to a death.
The thing being questioned was 'how can I attack a player that has done harm or acted dishonorably without facing Corruption penalties?' based on the fact that if, in the most basic example, someone kills your friend just before you both log off for the night and then go work off their Corruption, you can't punish them.
This would get that person labeled as 'Kill On Sight' for all those logged off people who couldn't get back online in time to do the punishment, either because the person worked off the Corruption entirely, or just managed to get away.
When person A kills person B and escapes, the whole point of KoS is to make Person A be punished or suffer. The only way to make that happen meaningfully is to make them drop something of their own. The point is not 'for the Bounty Hunter to get some payment from someone'. It is for them to carve their vengeance out of the hide of the offending party and stand laughing over their ashes.
Or something like that.
As I noted in the other thread, and to remind you, @Grihm, I don't care if 'tracking down an escaped person and killing them for that reason' leads to Corruption. I'm clarifying for you that the thing people were 'trying to solve' is not the thing you are currently solving. Or if you are, try again, this way doesn't work.
The basic idea was to treat it as a sort of duel, as mentioned in the OP.
* Bounty hunters can take on a bounty, and hunt down their target, defeat them and return for the reward.
* As long as the bounty is set and payed for ( an in game decided amount at minimum with a rather high cost ) KOS matters can be dealt with without it turning to ganking or harassment.
* As long as the bounty hunter stops at the defeated mark and not execute the player, no corruption is added.
* A limit is set on how often a Bounty hunter can take on bounties, and how often a player can set a bounty on the same mark.
As in... I do something you do not like ( guild betrayal, backstabbing in sieges, selling to the enemy, trading secrets, helping enemy factions etc etc ). You put a bounty on me that your friend accepts. Your friend has a given amount of time to smack me down, and within that timeframe, no corruption is given to him /her as long as they do not ( when i am defeated, as in a duel ) kill me after.
There are so many ways to deal with something, and this is a bit more on the RP side of things. It is indeed basically a form of duel, within a timeframe. Not everything must be about getting an item as a reward for " killing " another.
Why would anyone bother doing anything you mentioned? Did the target lose anything (I'm assuming they at least get XP debt)? Are they less likely to do what they did again? What if the target wins? Who paid for the bounty? If the bounty is mostly paid by 'the node' or 'taxes', what's to stop people from abusing this to just generate money? You would have to make it worth the bounty hunter's time relative to any other target or activity.
Again, the entire point of KoS lists is 'counter-harassment'. If you remove that aspect of it, it's not worth doing outside of RP. If it costs a lot, you might as well go do it and take the Corruption too. That was the reason for the other thread's "Grudge of the Sworn Enemy" thing.
It is literally 'Here is a free pass to counter-harass someone once.'
The problem I have with it personally is that it sounds like there is a premise that killing a single player 'dishonorably' or similarly, killing a single player 'out of revenge' will grant corruption with consequences. Other than the obvious (the corruption will only apply if the killed player both is a non-combatant and does not fight back, or is much lower level), we simply have no information on the corruption calculation as of now and when it starts to rack up penalties. Corruption is a scale and at the extreme end will result in dropped gear, easy hunting for bounty hunters etc. On the low end though, its consequences can be negligible/very small. This reflects IS's intention that it's ok to have one off killings here and there even if it is against non-consenting players. The corruption system isn't meant to act as a ban against such behavior, people who don't want to PvP, will get killed in PvP and in fact I suspect the dropping of raw materials by non-combatants will be a more severe punishment than the little corruption gained from killing a single non-combatant. My understanding of the corruption system is that it is meant to prevent/discourage griefing which is a repeated action (and thus I suspect corruption will accumulate faster if you kill the same player over and over for example). You will die in this game, and a lot of times it will be from PvP even if you don't want it to be. The game should not and I believe does not prevent this, corruption is a system that really kicks in when someone is repeatedly and continuously ruining people's experience, but getting ganked or randomly killed once in a while is not ruining someone's experience, that is part of the experience of playing AoC. Corruption is not a shield that makes the game PvE for you if that's how you want to play it, we don't need systems that prevent consequences or remove risk/danger from the world. This is why this game may not be for everyone.
But this IS for RP.
People do different things. Some will PVP 24/7, some will never touch it.
Why would some do what i mentioned? Why would someone do anything. I´ts a personal choice in the end.
People think of it in too complicated terms. See it as a form of duel.... nothing complicated.
Why would anyone do a duel? Same thing there.